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Please explain the difference in using “Din” and “Rin” i - Page 2

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Author Photo Daoxin
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
@emacarea. I agree with chat admin here. For the purposes of learning and corrections, we are usually using proper Tagalog with official spellings and grammar as a basis, and if informal forms or colloquialisms are possible, they are usually added as a side note. Even in the informal/slang speech, there are still loose rules for word order and spellings that are adhered to. I do think each of them has a place, but as far as being understood, proper tagalog will always be understood. Even if you are called mayabang, you are understood. The same isnt true for any informal forms that could vary with location/age/or any number of variables. Learning the proper stuff as a base to work from is the way to go, so you can be ready for all situations. You can go from proper to informal easily enough when you are familiar with the loose rules, but just learning the informal would limit you and maybe even embarass you if you need to use tagalog in a formal situation, like talking to your love’s parents.
 
If you just want to learn the slang and informal Tagalog, that’s ok too, but there are still correct ways to say something, and completely wrong ways to say something.
 
I’ll add this : don’t take corrections personally, as a public forum many people are reading the comments and not posting, so correcting sentences and explaining why they are wrong is a service to everyone here. For the sake of consistency, we are always working from proper tagalog, but I’m sure if you wanted to focus on more informal ways of expressing something, just specify that and plenty of native speakers will be happy to help.
 
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Author Photo emacarea
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
I agree wholeheartedly. I guess I was trying to go with the flow and not against it. As I stated I'm more than open and welcome corrections. I'm learning the language for one person and their family in particular. I think maybe I didn't explain well, because I feel like my point was missed. Like any language,
tagalog has grammar rules, tagalog is one of the "loosest" languages i've came across.
 
It's not so much formal/ informal as it is to be understood "in the right way". Just like english. You know the old saying "it's not what ya say, it's how you say it". This feels like sorta of an arrogance to me. You stated "Even if you are called mayabang, you are understood". But how am I being understood? Am I being understood as an arrogant american jerk or somebody that's "masanay"?
 
I think we lost the focus of the point I'm trying to make? Is informal not acceptable here? Tagalog has loose rules. Different ways of saying and spelling that are CORRECT either way you spell or say them. Also sentence structure and formation. It just shifts focus. Being corrected for the right reasons and even sometimes bad ones is humbling within itself. But to correct my already correct spelling of a word seems kinda demeaning and arrogant to me personally. I'm not offended or have any malice. As I've said I welcome corrections, I'm nowhere near perfect. It just is very confusing that the FOCUS or the SUBJECT of the original topic I asked or brought up got mixed up in frivolous corrections. I believe there may be some miscommunication in this forum and I believe I'm the cause. Just like any place there's a set of standards.
 
I guess what I want to stress to everybody; that what I learned with tagalog there's more than one right way to SAY or SPELL a word. When tagamanila corrected my spelling, I believe siya should have acknowledged that my way was correct and offered alternatives or additions too.
If I have offended anybody I apologize sincerely. Everybody's at a different level and to correct my spelling over one letter that's also acceptable according to the filipino people bewilders me. I speak with plenty of native speakers and I apologize for my informal ways of speaking that prompted so much correction.
 
Now that I know the "norms" and "expectations" when visiting this forum I will talk and behave accordingly.
 
I want to thank everyone for their time and feedback on this it's be very informative and appreciated God bless.
 
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Author Photo Tagamanila Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP SupporterBadge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
@emacarea
 
FilipinoChatAdmin and Daoxin have already given you the right answers to most of your questions.
 
With regard to spellings, there are standard and correct ways to write Filipino words. It's not a case of spell-it-any-which-way-you-want, which is only OK with texting for the sake of economy. There may be slight, but acceptable, variations with some words like “buwisit” and “bwisit” or “puwede” and “pwede”. Mostly they are the result of omitting a letter, which would not have a noticeable effect in the pronunciation of the words anyway.
 
In the case of “lalaki” and “lalake”, the original and supposedly official spelling is “lalaki”. The strange thing about it is, the way we have been pronouncing it is closer to “lalake” than “lalaki”. Maybe that’s because pronouncing it as “lalaki” may be confused with the future tense of the verb “lumaki”. It is possible that there are those who would spell it now as “lalake”, but those who know Filipino well enough would understand that it’s not really the proper way to spell it.
 
Another example is “bakit”, which we usually pronounce more like “baket”. However, I have not seen the word spelled as “baket” yet, unless perhaps when someone is trying to be funny.
 
There are some areas in the Philippines where they tend to mispronounce the vowels “e, i, o, and u”. It used to be that local comedians use it as a tool to elicit laughter, but that’s before the ideas of political correctness and racism were taken into consideration here. Now, only comedians from those areas can get away with it for the reason that they are just being themselves and be naturally funny for being so. Just last week, a respectable blogger pointed out that our president said, ‘the communists are engaged in “armed stragol” ‘ during a nationwide TV broadcast. Some Visayans were offended by her comment that she had to apologize for it.
 
Maybe the Filipinos you’ve been dealing with are from such areas and that’s why you arrived at this idea that “e” and “i” are interchangeable. However, if you’d ask them to spell the word, they would most likely spell it the right way. They just couldn’t help but pronounce it the other way.
 
I sometimes hear native-Spanish teachers advise native-English learners to learn how to roll their “R”s. I also know that some English speakers struggle with how to pronounce a Filipino word like “ngunit” correctly. I think it’s the same thing with those Filipinos who have “problems” with their “e, i, o, and u”.
 
So, it seems that we are confusing pronunciation with spelling. Going back to "bwesit", you should realize that I understood the word you used even if the spelling is not how it should be. If you've been hearing people pronounce "bwisit" as "bwesit", and be led to think that that's how it should be pronounced, then we can't do anything about that. However, my point only was for you to know the proper spelling of the word so that if you hear someone pronounce it as "bwisit", then you'd know that that's really how it should be.
 
The Dictionary on this site provides audio guides in pronouncing words. When in doubt, follow the audio guides here as they would be the proper Filipino pronunciations of the words.
 
I am sorry if you consider my interest to help you learn Filipino properly as rather offensive. I'd be extra careful next time.
 
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Author Photo emacarea
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
I didn't say I was offended... I'm over it though, but thanks again. Only thing I could say that would be close to offending me is you operating under the assumption I don't know the difference, can't spell correctly or can't speak or pronounce correctly. Moreover, that I needed a playful "warning" on how or when to use a word I'm very familiar with and use often in it's right context.
 
I find assumptions and assertions to be offensive and when people give you compliments you ignore or disregard. I feel there may be a lack of respect here, but at end of the day humbleness is my goal.
I'm glad you guys all agree on this forum that grammar correctness is the way to go. I will tread more careful in the future.
 
And for the record, that's the 2nd time you've done that.
 
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Author Photo emacarea
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
@Tagamanila I also may find it offensive that you've turned down repeated request from me personally to assist me in private with my tagalog grammar. You say that you don't have time or it was stressful the last time you tried to help another struggling tagalog speaker. Each time you've referred me and gave me weak solutions and ideas i've already tried or considered. But yet you take the time to write 100 page dissertation detailing how correct you are, how much knowledge you have and history lessons and examples and how you doing all of this for my sake of helping? I think that's funny. @FilipinoChatAdmin I want to thank you for acknowledging me and what I was trying to say. Showing me that respect it's very much appreciated. I think respect should come first and foremost, everybody's entitled to their opinions and views but respect first. Tagamanila, not sure you care but to me I feel you come off very arrogant and you may or may not come off that way to other readers but again respect first thanks. And when helping me, how about giving me the help I ASK for FIRST before we start correcting the grammar. And don't assume I don't know the proper tagalog rules for speaking. Cuz later you'll see some folks that'll join that will tell you I sometimes correct filipinos on their grammar because it's not correct. And I do that for my benefit so I don't pickup bad habits that'll get me shamed and corrected all the time... Opps!!! Too late... Lol what's Life without a little humor right? Ok be blessed
 
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Author Photo FilipinoChatAdmin Badge: AdminBadge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP Supporter
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
@emacarea
 
You can’t be mad someone is not giving you private language lessons...that’s just silly. And it’s not how this site works - everything is public so that everyone can learn together.
 
Tagamanila’s posts are accurate, intelligent, and insightful. You couldn’t ask for much more than that.
 
You talk about needing respect, but your post was the most disrespectful messages we’ve seen on this forum in a while, toward someone who is spending his time trying to help you learn, for free!
 
And you’re being way overly sensitive toward posts that correct your mistakes (yes, many times you are just wrong, it is not a matter of style...), and being slightly abusive and demanding to someone, again, who is trying to help you learn for free.
 
Everyone should be open to hearing ALL their mistakes, and ALL suggestions for improvement - that’s the best way to learn! If you commit the same mistake over and over without being corrected, it just makes it harder to fix in the future.
 
I hate to get negative in a post like this, but I’m literally a little gobsmacked at how hostile the above message was toward a long time, much valued member here.
 
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Author Photo Daoxin
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
Honestly, Tagamanila is a little more sincere than I think a lot of native speakers of English tend to be, and I can understand that it might be interpreted as arrogant or sarcastic, but that isn’t the case at all. It can be difficult for two native speakers to fully understand tone and subtleties of speech within a typed forum like this, so naturally it is even more difficult when we throw in people with different native languages. Everyone’s goal here is simply to make progress and help others make progress in Tagalog.
 
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Author Photo emacarea
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
@Daoxin I appreciate that. Thanks for the clarification. I was careful with my words and I didn't think anything I said was disrespectful. Just thoughts and my own personal opinion. After how the admin came at me I don't think I'm welcomed here. Because no matter what I say or how I say it I'm still misunderstood.
 
The points I'm trying to make are being missed and misinterpreted everybody has opinions and I think each should be respected as long as it's being conveyed in a respectful way. It seems like a gang up session. I'm being called overly sensitive and mad when this is not the case. I'm only stating facts and opinion as it applies to me. And if I have wronged someone in the process I apologize.
 
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Author Photo emacarea
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
[ Removed ]
 
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Author Photo emacarea
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
[ Removed ]
 
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Author Photo totoydavis Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
@emacarea
apologies, but no offense intended, I just wanted to be frank for what I am going to say..no wonder you were called "mayabang" because you are teaching "NATIVE" Filipino-speakers what's the right and wrong about their language. We breath and exhales our native language from the moment we started to learn how to speak. And I believe same goes with you in English.
 
what/how will you feel if a Filipino teach you English(if this is your native tongue), maybe you'll get offended too and "MIGHT" call that person "a boastful&arrogant person/mayabang" too. sir @Tagamanila is just helping you(though I wouldn't waste my time helping you if I were on his shoes), He is A FILIPINO NATIVE SPEAKER and YOU ARE NOT, HE IS MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE in Filipino grammar THAN YOU and THAN ANY OTHER FILIPINOS. so if you really understand the meaning of "HUMBLENESS" you will just SAY LESS and be thankful wholeheartedly, WITHOUT ANY SIDE COMMENTS or anything. But for what I see, you are just fooling yourself. Your actions are different from what you are saying.
 
And for the record, ALL YOUR SHORT TAGALOG SENTENCES ARE OFF. So I will expect worst if I ever hear you speak in Tagalog. Why? Because in writing, you can proofread your sentences and change what is wrong or what is appropriate right away especially it is JUST A SHORT sentence. BUT you can't even correct your OWN "SHORT" TAGALOG SENTENCES. So why even have the guts teaching Filipino to a Native Filipino?
 
Bwisit talaga! Marunong pa kay Rizal 😂
 
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Author Photo totoydavis Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Jun 01 2019, 12:00am CST ~ 2 years, 2 mos ago. 
oh it's back again 😊 hehe..
 
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