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Question: I am an American, I live in the Philippines. At a rece

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Author Photo by: 2nailsScrumpy
Mar 01 2023, 1:48pm CST ~ 1 year, 1 mo ago. 
Question: I am an American, I live in the Philippines. At a recent dinner I was asked why I wasnt eating. I replied "kinain ko na ang hapunan. I was unanimously corrected, telling me I am only to say kumain ko ng hapunan. How is it I am wrong?
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Author Photo Beemo
Mar 01 2023, 8:27pm CST ~ 1 year, 1 mo ago. 
Because your reply translates to "I already ate the dinner", which doesn't make sense in this case. 'Kinain' from the verb 'kainin', is an object focus verb. So your reply focuses on what is being eaten rather than who does the eating. Which is why 'kumain' - an actor focus verb- makes sense here. Bc kumain focuses on who does the eating rather than what is being eaten.
 
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Author Photo Animatrix
Mar 03 2023, 11:07pm CST ~ 1 year, 1 mo ago. 
Also, and this is just a guess, I try and go with very simple stuff, the simpler the better I think to get the point across, than add words that make it perfect later, at least that is my approach to language learning. I used to focus so much on grammar and this is a poor method since you can't really translate each word from English to Tagalog or Spanish as it just doesn't work and confuses me more. I go with bulky chunks now, for example, I would try to say, "food, I like". or "go, you there". I hope that makes sense.
 
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Author Photo PinoyTaj Badge: Supporter
Mar 15 2023, 6:23pm CST ~ 1 year, 0 mos ago. 
Kumain na kasi ako (ng hapunan) (kanina).
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Mar 29 2023, 12:41am CST ~ 1 year, 0 mos ago. 
@2nailsScrumpy
 
The answers given to you are correct. This is just to explain further why your response was corrected by your Filipino friends during dinner:
 
When you use an object-focus verb like “kinain”, the object has to be specific and is assumed to be in its entirety.
 
We use the “ANG (the)” before the object of an object-focus verb because it is THE specific object. That explains the correct translation given by Beemo of your response – I already ate THE dinner. Since the persons with you asked you why you are not eating your DINNER with them, that dinner becomes the specific object based on context when you responded with "kinain" as your verb. So, with your reply to them, it would not really make sense for you to have eaten that dinner (and in its entirety) because it is what they were still having at that moment.
 
When you use a subject-focus verb like “kumain”, the object is nonspecific and is assumed to be just a portion of whatever that object is. With a subject-focus verb, the object will be preceded by “NG” instead of “ang”. That “ng” is used only to indicate what the nonspecific object is - “Kumain na ako NG hapunan” = I already ate dinner. It can be any dinner and obviously not the one they are having at that time.
 
You can use any of the following as the proper response to their question:
 
Kumain na ako. = I already ate.
Nakakain na ako. = I have already eaten.
Kumain na kasi ako (ng hapunan) (kanina). = Because I already ate (dinner) (earlier). - as suggested by PinoyTaj.
Nakakain na kasi ako (ng hapunan) (kanina). = Because I have already eaten (dinner) (earlier).
 
The last 2 sentences would sound quite formal though.
 
Here’s another example to further explain the difference between the objects of subject-focus and object-focus verbs.
 
Let’s say that there are 3 apples and 2 oranges in a bag:
 
“KUMAIN ako NG mansanas na nasa bag” will be understood as that you only ate one or two of them or any fraction of them, e.g., 1/2 of one, 1 plus 1/3 of the second one, 2 plus 1/4 of the third one, etc., as long as you did not eat all of them. The oranges remain untouched
 
“KINAIN ko ANG (mga) mansanas na nasa bag” will be understood as that you ate all three of them. You may even omit the “mga” because the object of “kinain” will already be understood as the entire group of apples in the bag. The oranges remain untouched.
 
“KUMAIN ako NG prutas na nasa bag”. = I ate some of the fruits in the bag. Something still remains untouched in the bag - it may be just a portion of the apples or just a portion of the oranges or portions of both apples and oranges.
 
“KINAIN ko ANG (mga) prutas na nasa bag” means you ate all five of them.
 
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Author Photo 2nailsScrumpy
Mar 30 2023, 12:57pm CST ~ 12 mos. ago. 
Your explanation was very helpful, TY. I have never heard about the "entire" nature of an object focused verb nor seen it taught in any book , but that makes sense.
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Mar 31 2023, 12:12am CST ~ 12 mos. ago. 
@2nailsScrumpy
 
You're welcome!
 
Keep in mind though that the "specific" nature of the object is important too.
 
So, for example, if we're talking about just one apple and you ate half of it. Then any of the following sentences would be correct:
 
KUMAIN ako ng mansanas. = I ate an apple. (Will be understood as just a portion of it).
 
KINAIN ko ang kalahati ng mansanas. = I ate half of the apple. (Though you only ate a portion of it, but since that portion is SPECIFIED as half of the apple, then using an object-focus verb is OK too.)
 
KUMAIN ako ng kalahati ng mansanas. = I ate half of the apple. (The message that you want to convey is that you only ate a portion of the apple. The "half of the apple" is not given importance and serves only as additional info.)
 
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Author Photo MANGYANAKO Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Apr 04 2023, 12:04am CST ~ 11 mos. ago. 
@2nailsScrumpy literally by words you are actually correct! Kinain is also past tense and thats what are you asking right? You used past tense for ate - kinain then why are you still wrong? We cannot really translate word by word same with english,by culture you dont say I ate dinner already rather you say I already had my dinner.you used already had than i ate right? Though its both correct. But the cultures dictates the correctness.
 
So in filipino by culture we say it simply "KUMAIN NA AKO" - I had my dinner/breakfast/snack whatever time it is!
 
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Author Photo 2nailsScrumpy
Apr 04 2023, 4:41am CST ~ 11 mos. ago. 
I was thinking that my sentence was grammatically correct. That was why I wondered where I went wrong. My sentence was understood but not accepted as proper. No matter how I asked Why?, no one could explain the reason. Im glad there is Tagalog.com and the many good people willing to help. This little "hick up" was discouraging but in the end I got a lot out of it. Thanks to all who commented. I promise Ill just say Kumain ko na from now on. Ill sound correct and its a lot easier to remember as well.
 
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Author Photo MANGYANAKO Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Apr 04 2023, 10:31pm CST ~ 11 mos. ago. 
@2nailsScrumpy nice but its "Kumain na ko/ako" not "kumain ko na"
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Apr 05 2023, 2:25am CST ~ 11 mos. ago. 
... but its "Kumain na ko/ako"...
 
@MANGYANAKO
 
"Ko" is "correct" only if the communication is done verbally. However, in writing it has to be " 'ko " as the clipped version of "ako" - Kumain na 'ko.
 
AKO ay kumain na. - correct
KO ay kumain na. - wrong
Kinain KO na ang ... - correct
 
"Ko" is "I" only when used as the actor of an object-focus verb like "kinain". When an actor-focus verb like "kumain" is used, the actor "I" must be "ako".
 
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Author Photo MANGYANAKO Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Apr 07 2023, 5:46am CST ~ 11 mos. ago. 
@Juantutri i dont know and im not sure of what your sayin. Though in writing i read mostly the word ako instead of ko.but still we heard this both everyday " kumain na ko" and "kumain na ako", maybe to give a deep demphasis.
 
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Author Photo Beemo
Apr 07 2023, 2:35pm CST ~ 11 mos. ago. 
Thats because they shortened 'ako' to 'ko' when speaking. However, 'kumain na ako' is the correct way to say it.
Another example of shortening words is using 'di/de' instead of 'hindi'
 
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Author Photo Juantutri Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Apr 07 2023, 10:43pm CST ~ 11 mos. ago. 
but still we heard this both everyday " kumain na ko" and "kumain na ako"
 
@MANGYANAKO
 
Yes, I agree with you that we may hear both versions and that's why in my previous comment I said that "ko" is "correct" if the communication is done verbally or orally. I wrote "correct" in quotation marks because its correctness still depends on it being spelled correctly in the mind of the speaker.
 
However, once we write it down, then the correct spelling does matter. "Ako" and "ko" are two different words and one cannot replace the other in a sentence without changing its meaning. When you use them in a sentence with a single verb and it is an actor-focus verb like "kumain", "ako" means "I" and "ko" means "my".
 
"Kumain na ako" is the same as "Ako ay kumain na" since they both mean "I already ate". If we want to add "ko" to that sentence, we may only do so correctly if we use it as "my", e.g., "Kumain na ang lola KO" = "Ang lola KO ay kumain na" = MY grandma already ate. If we'd remove "ang lola (grandma)", "ko" would still mean "my" and not "I". So the sentence without "ang lola" becomes "Kumain na KO". The error there may not be noticeable, but when we write that as "KO ay kumain na" then it becomes obvious because the translation becomes "MY already ate". As Beemo and I are saying, "ko" has to be "ako" (or even " 'ko " should we have an aversion to the letter "a" 😱😅) for that sentence to be grammatically correct.
 
"Kumain na ako" may also be written as "Kumain na'ko" where "na ako" is contracted and the apostrophe represents the removed "a". This contraction is not done in formal writing though.
 
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Author Photo menay Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious Supporter
Apr 09 2023, 3:56am CST ~ 11 mos. ago. 
@2nailsScrumpy you have been asked about you not about what did you eat so the focus of the question was you and should be the answer. Since you the duer/ actor is the focus you should use a actor focus verb form which is kumain in this caseand so you are the ANG and the hapunan is the NG, i hope i helped
 
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Author Photo MANGYANAKO Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Apr 16 2023, 5:09am CST ~ 11 mos. ago. 
@Juantutri i was correcting him on agreeing he will say Kumain Ko na. But it should be 'Kumain na ko' not 'ko na'
 
But regarding kumain na ko or kumain na ako, i was hearing this often and at the same time seeing this on reading materials. Like yesterday i was doubting about my daughter if she ate already and i ask her.hoy! di ka pa ata kumakain? And she reply in a slow exclamated reaction Kumain na Ako !
 
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