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Use of alam ko, kalimutan ko etc - verbs or nouns?

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Author Photo by: tobias
May 23 2022, 6:54am CST ~ 1 mo., 7 days ago. 
Hi
A question on the use of "alam ko" "sabi ko" and "kalimutan ko"
- are these technically nouns? So if I say "I know" - do I technically say "Alam ko" = My knowledge is" or are these verbs? So how would I say "I knew" or "I will know"?
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Author Photo BisayangDako2022
May 23 2022, 12:13pm CST ~ 1 mo., 6 days ago. 
No, they’re verbs, “ko” in this context doesn’t mean “my”. And yes, “alam ko”, “sabi ko” and “nalimutan ko” mean “I know”, “I said” and “I forgot”. If you wanna say “I knew” and “I will know”, it’s “nalaman ko” and “malaman ko”.
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
May 23 2022, 1:53pm CST ~ 1 mo., 6 days ago. 
For my foreigner brain...every word is a base root with potential for many modifications.
 
Halimbawa...for sample (SIC as in soooo SICK)
 
KaLIMUTan == root limot
 
limót: [adjective] forgotten
 
Meeeeh....that's just a starting point...CORE ROOT ONLY
 
The QUESTION is...what do you NEED limot to do for you...what do you WANT limot to do for you. In Filipino, you are not stuck to some ADJECTIVE God...or NOUN God...
 
Ikaw...what do YOU want the root to do in YOUR sentence...
 
Based on Tagalog.com extensions of meaning...
 
5 different VERB AFFIX choices...to color your choice of sentences and meanings...
 
3 different ADJECTIVE AFFIX choices as well.
 
You will not fit Filipino words into convenient English Grammar Boxes...instead you get a palette of meanings to color your own Tagalog Expressions.
 
Welcome to the Emotional Artistry of Tagalog. Its MORE FUN...for a reason.
 
You always have PAG and ANG to shape roots as nouns.
 
Ay Ina kooooo...overwhelming. My suggestion...learn how to pull the root out of any word. And for every root, try to learn the most durable verb affix.
 
Personally, I prefer objective focus (OF) -IN because:
1. You avoid a bunch of the small nuances in MAG-, -UM-, MA-, MAKA constructions that your foreign mind will miss and only serve to confuse native speakers;
2. OF allows for easiest pronoun interactions (kita; ko siya; mo sila, etc) - speaking is about person to person interactions...get to OF sooner;
3. The pronouns connect easiest to the enclitic particle combinations which is key to Filipino sound and successfully connecting all the sounds.
4. The ANG focus noun is always definite...and I prefer to speak concretely. Many ways to fuzz up a sentence but I prefer to start with a concrete ANG focus noun.
5. The NG actor noun can be assumed/omitted which is a key feature of native sentences.
 
Now you cannot just speak ALL -IN verb affixes...but they are my base. And the -IN words will lead you back to clear MAG- and -UM- choices for your roots. And then...you have dozens more to learn.
 
Philippines is MORE FUN...for a reason...and Filipino is MORE FUN...fora reason too!
 
Enjoy!
 
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Author Photo tobias
May 24 2022, 4:11am CST ~ 1 mo., 6 days ago. 
Hi
Maraming salamat para sa mga sagot ninyo :-) - I was suspecting alam ko cannot be a noun, because if you negate you say "hindi ko alam" and not "walang alam" :-) - but should I consider those verbs "irregular" ?
Why do I use the root here "alam ko" and not "inaalam ko" - is it just because the verb is frequently used and this is a short cut?
What about "sabi ko" is this just a colloquial short cut for "sinaabi ko" ?
 
Forgive me for thinking in european language grammar boxes, as this is all I have right now and I am trying here to think "out of the box" :-)
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
May 24 2022, 11:35pm CST ~ 1 mo., 5 days ago. 
Grammars and Text books for foreigners are NOT MODERN and TOO FORMAL!!
 
LISTEN to what natives say...not what the grammar/text book writes blah blah blah...
 
Halimbawa...
Cancer daw sabi ng doktor.
Sabi ko.
Sabi yung tubig daw galing sa labahin.
Sabi ko kay May.
Vote pa sin kita kay pa epal ka sabi ni mitch
Si Julian, ' di ba sabi niya hindi na siya part nito.
Kung gusto di mag sabi na gusto ko mo doon.
Well sabi nila hindi pa sila ready for mature roles.
 
250,000+ more native examples.
 
Pero...
Hindi niya sinabi sa mabait na asawa ang totoo.
Sinabi niyang hindi niya magagawa.
Sinabi niya ang apelyido niya ay nagsisimula sa letter B
Dun ko naalala ang sinabi ng lolo.
Sinabi ko na sa kanya kanina
Eventually, sinabi natanggap nga daw, '' sabi niya.
 
130,000+ more native examples.
 
Survey says...more than half sabi over sinabi.
 
Now NOOOOOOOOOO Filipino is going to "misteach" you Tagalog. So you will universally be TAUGHT...the MOST PROPER...TOO FORMAL, non-conversational TAGALOG.
 
Then, when other pinoys listen to you...they will say you sound like a book or provincial. :D
 
Now if you want to write governmental reports with your TAGALOG. FINE.
 
But if you want free flowing, conversations...to make emotional connections...MEEEEH. Careful how you spend your efforts.
 
Who teaches truly conversational Tagalog...there is a need...
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
May 25 2022, 1:08am CST ~ 1 mo., 5 days ago. 
As for ALAM...case study from TAGALOG.com root extensions...
 
ROOT: alám:
[adjective] know • familiar • aware
[noun] knowledge • something known
 
But of course the overwhelming use is as verb...reflected in 4 verb affixes:
alamín: [verb] to find out something • to figure out something • to know something
malaman: [verb] to know something • to find out something • to be conscious
makialám: [verb] to meddle • to interfere • to step in
mapag-alamán: [verb] to come to realize something • to come to learn something
 
But need a noun...salamangkero...POOFERS!
kaalamán: [noun] knowledge • information • intelligence • idea
kinalaman: [noun] connection • a share (of something); knowledge about something
pakialám: [noun] give a care • care • meddler • interferer
 
AND...adjective...POOF2!
maalam: [adjective] knowledgeable • wise • aware • well-versed
 
Now if we search online...for percent of native usage...what do we actually find:
 
21.7% alam
11.2% malaman
2.1% alamin
0.3% nakialam
0.1% mapag-alamán
 
Kawili wili....soooooooooooooo interesting!
 
Halimbawa...
Alam nyo nman siguro kung sinong may mali!
Pero isa lang ang alam ko, TULOG SIYA
May malala kaya siyang sakit na hindi niya alam ?
Mga sis, may alam ba ng sched ng.
Ang masakit alam mo namang pangalawa ka pero sumubok ka pa din.
o
Alamin ang mga panganib ng iyong komunidad.
Alamin ang planong pang-emergency ng iyong paaralan.
Dapat alamin din natin about sa build build build ng duterte admin.
o
Hindi malaman ni Rolly ang gagawin.
Paano mo malalaman kung ikaw ay nasa gitna ng silid?
Gusto mo ba malaman ang OFW GO Home Project?
 
Why do foreigners grind so heavily to "perfect" their conjugations...when daily usage often favors roots?
 
I care what people SAY they DO. That's important. But MORE important is what they actually SAY in DOING!
 
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Author Photo tobias
May 25 2022, 4:56am CST ~ 1 mo., 5 days ago. 
Hi
 
Thanks for your elaborate response.
 
"Why do foreigners grind so heavily to "perfect" their conjugations...when daily usage often favors roots?"
 
I don´t know if I am grinding heavily, I am a beginner, I am on a beginners´ level and I live on the other side of the globe in Scandinavia. I do not hear Tagalog very often and all I have are my textbooks, the resources of the Internet and my few tagalog speaking friends, My friends are no linguists, so they often cannot answer my questions and many of them speak Tagalog as second language.
 
As a beginner you will try to find patterns in a new language to help you remember :-) so when a word does not fit the pattern, you may want to know why. Sometimes it´s enough to know, that this is just an exception.
 
Tagalog is a very interesting language also from the linguistic side. As languages are my hobby, I love to explore how and why languages express ideas in completely different ways than others and often I like to understand the logic of it. So that´s why I of course understand that you use "alam ko" and that´s it - but somehow I am also interested in understanding why, is that a pattern, exception or a completely different way, like for examples Tagalogs ang/ng concept - so interesting you have developed a object/subject -focus concept.
 
When I learn a language I don´t want to just put words behind each other (Which will also make me get understood) - but I would like to get to a B1.1. level. Until then I am on a journey, and of course I will sound funny, that´s okay!
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
May 25 2022, 4:40pm CST ~ 1 mo., 4 days ago. 
@tobias
 
"Until then I am on a journey, and of course I will sound funny, that´s okay!"
 
My journey is 1,000,000 mistakes - as fast as possible. Sorry to report I don't think I have touched even 100,000 yet. Sayang!
 
"I love to explore how and why languages express ideas in completely different ways than others and often I like to understand the logic of it."
 
I totally agree. Fortunately, there is a complete TAGALOG answer book. Every answer at your current level and to every level you could ever dream. :D
 
Tagalog Reference Grammar
Paul Schacter
University of California, Los Angeles
Fe T. Otanes
Philippine Normal College, Manila
University of California Press
1972.
 
Now every Tagalog grammar is derivative of this work. 50 years later...should this be the leading grammar. Published out of the USA? Meeeeh...most probably time for an updated look... MODERN...PHILIPPINES CENTRIC
 
But every answer you could ever imagine...IS IN THERE... Takes a bit to adjust to the prose, but then the direction is quite clear. BUTTTTT formal nuances everey bit as difficult as Japanese or Korean.
 
So have fun...just make sure you are sure of your destination...and choose an appropriate vehicle to get you where you WANT to go.
 
Enjoy. Tagalog is MORE FUN din na po!
 
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