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Question: Maka and Ma prefixes

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Author Photo by: primesgenato
May 31 2020, 12:33am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
Question: Maka and Ma prefixes
 
Maka and Ma verb prefixes mean either "to be able to do verb" or "to happen to do verb".
 
According to Tagalog Reference Grammar, the distinction is conveyed by different prefix stresses. However this practice is apparently done more by older speakers, and not so much by younger speakers. Look at the prefix stress changes below.
 
Nakakain ako niyan
I was able to eat that
 
Nakákain ako niyan
I happened to eat that
 
Nagagamit ko ito
I am able to use this
 
Nágagamit ko ito
I happen to use this
 
My question is how widely is this practiced nowadays? Will people understand me if I use these stress changes?
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Author Photo Bituingmaykinang
May 31 2020, 2:40am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
@primesgenato
 
"I was able to eat that" is usually said as Nakáin ko na iyan. "Nakakain ako niyan" sounds like "I am being eaten by that".
 
"I happen to use this" is said as "Ginagamit ko ito"
 
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Author Photo primesgenato
May 31 2020, 2:46am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
Actually I'm talking about the AF verb makakain, and not the OF verb makain.
 
www.tagaloglessons.c om/words/makakain-8a 88d.php
 
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Author Photo primesgenato
May 31 2020, 2:52am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
Forum Image
 
Just to be clearer on what I'm actually asking with the stress changes for maka- and ma-, here's the section from Tagalog Reference Grammar that I'm talking about.
 
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Author Photo Bituingmaykinang
May 31 2020, 2:55am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
One thing to remember that not all conjugations are used or make sense in conversation even if they are "grammatically correct".
 
For example, the conjugation for "reciprocal" action. Nagsapakan kami ng kasintahan ko. My lover and I slapped each other. However, you would want to avoid saying " Nagkainan kami ng kasintahan ko". (NSFW translation).
 
Some may look "logical" following the pattern but they really aren't used in conversation
 
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Author Photo Bituingmaykinang
May 31 2020, 3:03am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
It looks like there is some confusion on your part about the involuntary action and the "able" action, at least your English translation.
 
Nakáin ko na iyan = I was able to eat that.
 
Nakáin ko yung tinik = I accidentally ate the fishbone. (The progressive form of this one does not make sense since it's involuntary and one usually notice it after it happened)
 
Nakáin ako niyan is not used in standard Tagalog because it means "I was eaten by that".
 
The exception here is the Southern Tagalog variant because they use Nákáin instead of Kumain.
 
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Author Photo Bituingmaykinang
May 31 2020, 3:07am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
For gamit:
 
Nagámit ko yung pera = I accidentally used/spent the money
 
Nagámit ko na iyan = I already used that.
 
Nakagamit ako ng Mercedes Benz = I was able to use a Mercedez Benz
 
Most of it is derived from context.
 
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Author Photo primesgenato
May 31 2020, 3:09am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
I never said "nakain" though. As I said, it's another verb makakain. Look at my post above, I said "nakakain" and not "nakain".
 
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Author Photo primesgenato
May 31 2020, 3:10am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
Or is it that "makakain" is uncommon and that's why you keep on thinking it's "makain"?
 
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Author Photo primesgenato
May 31 2020, 3:13am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
For gamit: Nagámit ko yung pera = I accidentally used to money Nagámit ko na iyan = I already used that. Nakagamit ako ng Mercedes Benz = I was able to use a Mercedez Benz Most of it is derived from context.
 
@Bituingmaykinang
 
Ok so this isn't commonly done below then, like what was said in TRG? Look at the stress marks below to see what I mean.
 
Nágámit ko yung pera = I accidentally used the money

Nagámit ko iyan = I was able to use that
 
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Author Photo Bituingmaykinang
May 31 2020, 3:19am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
Makakain means either edible, letting someone know you are going to eat.
 
Some of your English translations were actually confusing
 
Nakakáin ako ng pating. I was able to eat shark.
 
Nakáin ko yung pating. I accidentally ate shark or I ate the shark, depends on the context.
 
The "involuntary" action being described is actually more of something done that is accidental/not intentional. It is usually Nakain or Nagamit or Nasapak because one really does not say "I am accidentally eating/using it"
 
Nakakain, Nagagamit, Nasasapak means "able to eat", "able to use", "able to slap"
 
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Author Photo primesgenato
May 31 2020, 3:39am CST ~ 1 mo., 2 days ago. 
LOL. Once again, I'm talking about the AF verb "makakain (nakakain/nakakakain/makakakain)". See this definition (https://www.tagaloglessons.com/words/makakain-8a88d.php). I'm not talking about OF verb "makain" nor am I talking about the noun "makakain" (https://www.tagaloglessons.com/words/makakain-20ed3.php)
 
"Nakakain" is admittedly confusing as it can be either imperfective (present) aspect of "makain" or perfective (past) aspect of "makakain". Maybe I should have used a less ambiguous verb as an example haha.
 
Anyway back on topic. I know what abilitative (able to do) and involuntary (happen to, or accidentally) means. I also know that either meaning can be deduced from the context. That's not what I'm asking at all.
 
My question is about the accent/stress, so that I can avoid ambiguity in meaning when I say something. Whether it's in common usage today, to say "maka" and "ma" for abilitative meaning, but "maká" and "má" instead for involuntary meaning? See the TGF screenshot that I posted above for details.
 
Once again, I'm asking about the stress. Not about what ability or involuntary verbs mean. Nor am I disputing that either meaning can be deduced from context. I know all that as TGF explained in excruciating detail haha. Thx for all your responses BTW.
 
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Author Photo hamilee Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Jun 02 2020, 12:15pm CST ~ 4 weeks ago. 
I am not answering your question though but I am sharing my opinions.
 
I think the better way of stating the 1st and 2nd sentences is by using the word "na" after the verb, especially in the first and second pairs. If you don't put a "na", the meaning would be totally different. Also, the stress is on the second "ka" for both Tagalog sentences.
 
Nakakain na ako nyan. - I was able to eat that.
Nakakain ako nyan. - I could be eaten by that. (Something to that effect. The object of the verb changed). This is also a homophone.
 
The speed you speak "Naka", the first two syllables also changes the meaning of the word nakakain.
 
Faster "naka" for "nakakain na ako niyan" means "I was able to eat this already."
Slower "naka" for "nakakain na ako nyan." means, "I was able to eat this"
 
The third pair is correct.
 
On the fourth pair. The stress on the word "Nagagamit" is always on the second "ga". We don't pronounce it with the stress on the "na". Although again, the speed of how we pronounce "naga" which is the first two syllables could change the meaning of the word also. Thanks everyone.
 
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Author Photo primesgenato
Jun 02 2020, 1:27pm CST ~ 4 weeks ago. 
@hamilee
 
Thx a lot. Very interesting. Never expected that different meanings existed for different speeds of "naka" and "naga". So what are the meanings of "nagagamit" for slow vs fast speed of "naga"?
 
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Author Photo BoraMac
Jun 03 2020, 8:07am CST ~ 4 weeks ago. 
I would suggest a simple experiment. On a Virtual Assistant site (e.g. Fiverr, UpWork, etc.) spend five bucks and find the most highly qualified Filipino language specialist you can (many strongly qualified VAs). Whoever you might identify will be strongly above the average Tagalog speaker. Take 10 or twenty of these nuanced sentences you are discussing here. And take them to the Tagalogs of the Philippines. Your results will be jaw dropping! Shhhhhhhhhhh! I dare not share them here. Yes...I have hundreds of data points. Or pick a coffee shop in the University Belt and buy a budding loquacious lawyer or doctor a hot java. Same shocking results. Your approach will change.
 
Good luck! Enjoy.
 
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Author Photo AkoSiMaganda
Jun 08 2020, 4:07pm CST ~ 3 weeks, 2 days ago. 
Question: Maka and Ma prefixes Maka and Ma verb prefixes mean either "to be able to do verb" or "to happen to do verb". According to Tagalog Reference Grammar, the distinction is conveyed by different prefix stresses. However this practice is apparently done more by older speakers, and not so much by younger speakers. Look at the prefix stress changes below. Nakakain ako niyan I was able to eat that Nakákain ako niyan I happened to eat that Nagagamit ko ito I am able to use this Nágagamit ko ito I happen to use this My question is how widely is this practiced nowadays? Will people understand me if I use these stress changes?
 
@primesgenato
Nakakain ako niyan noong / dati / nang /tuwing = I was able to eat that ( when / how) -= possibility
Nakákain ako niyan sa/ kina /doon sa/ doon kina = I happened to eat that (where/why)-= ability.
 
To answer the question, yes, people will understand you and it is being practiced all the time. . Exaple.
'"Nakakain ka ba ng maayos as party kahapon? "Where you able to eat well at the party?"
"Nakakain ka na ba ng adobong palaka? " Did you happen to eat adobong palaka?"
 
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