Question: "Puwede ka ba munang tumayo" vs "Puwede bang tumayo ka

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Oct 28 2023, 11:32pm CST ~ 1 mo., 1 day ago.

Question: "Puwede ka ba munang tumayo" vs "Puwede bang tumayo ka muna"

Translation: "Can you stand up for a moment?"

Is one sentence ungrammatical? Or, is one more natural? Or, do they differ in meaning?

I think my question concerns the order of enclitic words because this resource (https://learningtagalog.com/grammar/enclitic_words/overview.html)
says "[enclitic words] generally follow either the first word of the sentence or another enclitic word." But I'm pretty sure the 2nd sentence, "Puwede bang tumayo ka muna?" is a natural sentence even though "tumayo" separates the enclitics "ba(ng)" and "ka" and the enclitics don't follow the order as laid out here (https://d2ter2x3z9nvf.cloudfront.net/downloads/order_of_tagalog_enclitic_words.pdf)
- "ka" supposedly comes before "ba".

I assume it's more complicated than simply "[enclitics] generally follow either the first word of the sentence or another [enclitic]." If that is the case, what extra rules are there?

Oct 29 2023, 1:32am CST ~ 1 mo., 1 day ago.

I think I might've found my answer:
learningtagalog.com/ grammar/enclitic_wor ds/using_enclitic_wo rds/exceptions_

I assume that "puwede" is one of those words that enclitics do not have to immediately follow.

Oct 29 2023, 8:48am CST ~ 1 mo., 1 day ago.

@NovaChromatic Hey, Nova. I hope this doesn't throw you in a whirlwind, but I want to tell a little bit about my experience. I have spent quite some time in Manila and a lot of time Filipinos do not say the whole sentence. Example, I can walk into a Jollibee (same goes for my Filipino friends) and say "Pwede tubig?" to ask for water. Now, that is not grammatically correct at all, but that is all that is needed to get my communication across (other Filipinos do this as well). The literal translation is "Can water?" but the technical correct translation would be something like "Pwede ko ba ng tubig?" (Can I get some water?).

So, all in all, it is good to know the grammar, you will generally need to use it correctly, but there are a lot of little instances like this where Tagalog speakers do not follow the rules and actually omit words altogether.

Oct 30 2023, 11:10pm CST ~ 4 weeks ago.

@DrewWilson

Could it be that you might have misheard what your Filipino friends actually said, or that what you heard was only a part of a conversation that gave it a contextual basis?

If we’d ask someone here “pwede tubig?” in the absence of context, I am sure a baffled look is what we’d get back because it does mean “can water?” or possibly “can I use water (for/on something)?”. The only way it may make sense is if the person at the counter asked you if you’d like to order a drink with your meal. In which case, responding with “pwede tubig?” would be understood that you’re asking if you could just have tap or bottled water instead, should they be available.

Should you want to ask for water to drink, the shortest way to say it is “Pwedeng humingî ng tubig? (Can I get/ask for some water?)”.

"Pwede ko ba ng tubig?" won’t be understood at all because it translates to “Can I of water?”.

Nov 02 2023, 4:52am CST ~ 3 weeks, 6 days ago.

@Juantutri Maybe you live in the province. I am currently in Manila. Someone today actually asked me, "Pwede na sampu?". I was selling something, and she was asking if 10 pesos is okay, but that would literally be translated to "Can now/already 10?". Would you say that where you are from? lol

Nov 02 2023, 7:16am CST ~ 3 weeks, 6 days ago.

@DrewWilson

Sorry to disappoint you, but I was born and raised in the city of Manila itself, and so were my parents. Tagalog/Filipino is our mother tongue, and I have been living in this city all my life.

Manila City is the country's capital, which should not be confused with what may loosely be called "Manila". My place happens to be less than 3km away from the Rizal monument in Luneta where KM 0 begins.

About that lady you sold something to, she spoke perfect Tagalog. What she asked you translates to “Would 10 do?”. Luckily, you were able to figure out what she actually said, even if you thought it was “Can now/already 10?”. I'm happy for you.

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