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Question: Use spoon and fork in active and passive voices

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Author Photo by: Luka Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Oct 06 2020, 5:11am CST ~ 2 weeks, 5 days ago. 
Question: Use spoon and fork in active and passive voices
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Author Photo AMBoy Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP Supporter
Oct 06 2020, 8:01am CST ~ 2 weeks, 5 days ago. 
I'm a learner, take it with a grain of salt. I'm open to correction.
 
Gumamit ako ng kutsara at tinidor = I used a spoon and fork
Ginamit ko ang kutsara at tinidor = I used the spoon and fork. (Lit. The spoon and fork were used by me)
 
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Author Photo laidrecto
Oct 07 2020, 11:36am CST ~ 2 weeks, 3 days ago. 
@AMBoy nothing is wrong with your sentences. Galing!
 
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Author Photo laidrecto
Oct 07 2020, 11:44am CST ~ 2 weeks, 3 days ago. 
@Luka to be more precise:
 
Active voice: Gumamit ako ng kutsa at tinidor.
Passive voice: Ang kutsara at tinidor ay ginamit ko.
 
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Author Photo leosmith
Oct 07 2020, 7:31pm CST ~ 2 weeks, 3 days ago. 
(I am also not a native)
Short answer: There are no active/passive voices in Tagalog.
 
Long answer: There are some AF ma- verbs that feel a bit like English passive voice.
Ex1: Namatay ang lalaki. = The man died. (feels a bit like passive voice)
Ex2: Pinatay ang lalaki. = The man was killed. (feels a bit like active voice)
There aren't a whole lot of these ma- verbs. There may be some other affixes that behave like this that I'm not aware of, but my point is that they aren't very common. Technically, since this "passivity" doesn't occur due to a conjugation, these are not examples of passive voice (I am told).
 
For some reason several well known grammar resources call AF active, and all other focuses passive. This is misleading imo. In all fairness, the excellent sentences that @AMBoy came up with are probably what you are asking for. But I would translate them differently.
Gumamit ako ng kutsara at tinidor = I used a spoon and fork. This is AF, the focus is "I", so it might be used to answer the question "Who used the spoon and fork?"
Ginamit ko ang kutsara at tinidor = I used the spoon and fork. This is OF, the focus is "the spoon and fork", so it might be used to answer the question "What did you use?"
 
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Author Photo jkos Badge: AdminBadge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP Supporter
Oct 07 2020, 8:49pm CST ~ 2 weeks, 3 days ago. 
@leosmith
I agree with leosmith here. The active/passive analogy just falls apart too quickly to be a useful guide to how Tagalog verbs are conjugated.
 
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Author Photo laidrecto
Oct 07 2020, 9:04pm CST ~ 2 weeks, 3 days ago. 
There are (if not most, but not all) verbs can be conjugated into passive voice in Tagalog. However, we do not hear it being spoken or written most of the time because it sounds dramatic (I think it is mostly used in literary pieces like poetry and plays). It is just annoying to learners, especially if you are an English speaker because we are trying to find counterparts of English language parts of speech to Tagalog. But as a both Tagalog and English speaker, I believe there are very few things that are not agreeable between Tagalog and English language.
 
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Author Photo leosmith
Oct 07 2020, 9:28pm CST ~ 2 weeks, 3 days ago. 
There are (if not most, but not all) verbs can be conjugated into passive voice in Tagalog.

@laidrecto I may have misunderstood this, but if you are saying there is such thing as passive voice in Tagalog, could you please give us an example?
 
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Author Photo AMBoy Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP Supporter
Oct 07 2020, 10:15pm CST ~ 2 weeks, 3 days ago. 
I don't even know why the OP asked this question they are a native / advanced Tagalog speaker their profile says .
 
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Author Photo laidrecto
Oct 07 2020, 10:30pm CST ~ 2 weeks, 3 days ago. 
@leosmith Active Voice (Tahasang Tinig) and Passive Voice (Balintayak na Tinig). I am going to use "Karaniwang Ayos" so we can have the first half of the sentence as subject and the second part as predicate.
 
Ex 1: Si Leo ay uminom ng tubig. (Leo as subject and doer - Active)
 
Ex 2: Ang tubig ay ininom ni Leo. (tubig as subject and being acted upon - Passive)
 
Looking at it now, it is not much of a conjugation but a sentence construction (because you can also say Ex 1 as "Si Leo ay ininom ang tubig." which is identical to the Ex 2). As I have said, Filipinos are so desperate to adapt Tagalog into English language and so we create these Tagalog versions of parts of speech not really thinking that it means a totally different thing in English.
 
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Author Photo leosmith
Oct 08 2020, 12:34am CST ~ 2 weeks, 3 days ago. 
Active Voice (Tahasang Tinig) and Passive Voice (Balintayak na Tinig)

@laidrecto Ah, I see what you mean. That explains the grammar sources using the active/passive voice terminology. Incidentally, the correct English terminology for these is Actor Focus/Goal Focus. Goal focus is a term we use for all focuses other than actor.
 
I don't even know why the OP asked this question they are a native / advanced Tagalog speaker their profile says .

@AMBoy And that probably explains why the OP used the passive/active terminology. Mystery solved.
 
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Author Photo AMBoy Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP Supporter
Oct 08 2020, 4:14am CST ~ 2 weeks, 3 days ago. 
Yes, even in school here in PH they are taught Tagalog through the lenses of English, the know nothing about focus and aspect. They learn about tense , and subject and predicate parts.
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
Oct 08 2020, 9:03pm CST ~ 2 weeks, 2 days ago. 
When natives are taught English as a Second Language...often Taglog structures are aligned (aheeem "polluted") with English grammar structures (etc. active vs passive voice, SV agreement, etc.) so that Tagalog speakers have a more direct path to English. In the other direction, when foreign college students (familiar with college English grammar based on their college classes) are taught Tagalog, some native teachers use the same structures as a way tightly align the grammar in the other direction. There are a number of texts that do use active and passive voice in teaching Tagalog.
 
I have learned both systems (active/passive verbs vs Actor/Object focused verbs) and find the Actor / Object structure a cleaner way to learn Tagalog (without unecessary "polluting" English notions) although working through the active / passive approach is a great exercise for confirming your understanding.
 
So as usual in Tagalog...dependeeeeeeee....1) ESL....2) TSL for younger learners...or 3)TSL for older learners.
 
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