I searched the word 'ay'. I think there is a need to re-study - Page 4

@PinoyTaj Pretty overt.

@AMBoy Ok I stand corrected. But that still doesnt prove the point that Hay and ay are the same thing.

@nickchase327 No I proved multiple points wrong .1. Ay naku is valid and doesn’t have to be “Hay naku”.2. “Whereas Ay is “only” a sentence inverter”. “Ay” has multiple uses in the language. While being an inversion marker is one of them it’s not the “ONLY” use. (As you stated).

@PinoyTaj no actually I realized something. Ay naku is not consistent especially when its dissected. Ay naku is still colloquial version. Imagine if we used ay the same way as hay in writing inverted sentences which does not exist (this im sure of). Ay is not equal to hay when you think that they are the same if applied to writing sentences. So its like first entry, Ay 1 definition and Second entry Ay 2 (colloqial) definiton and vis a vis. can only be used for specific interjections then. what im saying is that its not interchangeable.

@nickchase327 since hay and ay are not interchangeable in sentence inversion like: Ako "hay" marupok. (non existent). Ay not equal with hay. My theory either they can brand it colloquial or something is not consistent with UPDF. There's a probability that my assumption is correct that can debunk your "proved points" for now.

@PinoyTaj since hay and ay are not interchangeable in sentence inversion like: Ako "hay" marupok. (non existent). Ay not equal with hay. My theory either they can brand it colloquial or something is not consistent with UPDF. There's a probability that my assumption is correct that can debunk your "proved points" for now.

You still don’t understand the points are separate. I also never said Ay = Hay. I said “Hay naku” and “Ay naku” are the same phrase. It’s called alternate spelling and one being colloquial doesn’t make its “wrong” . It is also an “interjection” .My second points was that “Ay” has more uses than being an inversion marker. “”@PinoyTaj I have highlighted what you said that was either wrong or misleading(that I am specifically countering).Edit : I have now confirmed that Ay! = Hay!

Just a reminder to keep things civil - we can debate the issue without belittling or insulting other members. EDIT: Removed. What do I know. ; ) @nickchase327 is a grammar purist, which is totally fine. Some people (in English as well) advocate for the language to be used in its strict, proper, rules-based form only, and everything else is bad. I can see the reasons for and against this.

@nickchase327
You’re simply wrong tho but ok…..I forgot to double check you’re Hay /= xAy theory and the dictionary says Hay is a varyiant of Ay. Language experts don’t agree with you .

@jkos Except that it's actually the other way around as shown by PTaj“Ay naku!” is correct, proper usage.
“Hay naku!” is a common spelling variation.So actually no he's not a grammar purist, he's just wrong sadly, and to do a full page post calling out another native with wrong information is just bad form haha.

@AMBoy @PinoyTaj Huh...interesting. I'm sure that I learned "Hay naku" from formal sources. But the UP Dictionary does say "Hay" is a variant of Ay. I double checked and the Leo Dictionary also has the definition of "Ay" like UP does (but no "hay" definition). "Hay" is also referred to as a "sigh" noise for Tagalog so...is that a different source than "Ay"? I don't know...Anyway...I don't think you can point to a single reference and claim triumph here, though. ; ) For example, newspapers in the corpus (traditionally more proper) prefer "Hay naku" 3 to 1.

@jkos I was just pointing out that Ay and Hay are the same as OP claimed they are different.According to what I could find online : “Hay naku” is the standard spelling however there are books that use “ay naku” Ay Naku www.amazon.com/dp/97 16301677/ref=cm_sw_r _cp_api_glt_fabc_F32 FKXKJF2928E43N7Means exactly the same thing and some sources say it’s a shortening of “Ina ko”(naku). Also since the phrase is already a colloquial shortening, arguing for a grammatical form is weird since it’s a colloquial phrase. In actuality both are grammatically correct since Ay/ hay combine with naku (ina ko) to make Hay naku / Ay naku. One could also argue that “Ay” naku should be correct since “ Ay” is the standard form of “Hay” according to the only source that even lists “Hay”.

Hay and Ay (inverter) are not the same.Ay is an interver and Hay is an expression. It's similar to "Oh". It morphs yo "ay" in casual talk. Kind of like how hindi becomes di, inde, indi, etc....

@Bituingmaykinang No one is arguing that Ay inverter is that same as Hay we are saying that Ay! the expression is the same as Hay! the expression lol.As OP did say that that Ay the expression is different than Hay the expression. (Btw)

@Bituingmaykinang To make a long story short OP corrected another native speaker and said his “Ay naku” should be --> “Hay naku”. I commented back saying that “Ay naku” is valid . OP countered saying that in the context of “Hay naku and Ay naku” that “Hay” has a different meaning than “Ay” (which was proven wrong later on as UP sites that they are variants of each other) . I also stated that the “ay” wasn’t only an inverter clause and is an expression as well(yes different words but spelled the same).Which one is formal or the inverter clause etc was never apart of the argument the problem was that OP corrected something that was already accurate. (Which I pointed out).