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Lawyers' group: PH drug war probe 'cherry-picked,' focused on low-ranking cops | ANC
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NUPL opposed the Philippine government's appeal before the ICC to suspend its investigation into former President Rodrigo Duterte's drug war. For more ANC Interviews, click the link below: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLm34qRgqWBU4AT2G3LWF27_RErcz0GVd9 For more COVID-19 videos, click the link below: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLm34qRgqWBU6fLkn9gyvRdaq4t72OPtCL For more ANC Highlights videos, click the link below: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLm34qRgqWBU43K1JtKfSzAzho2UExmS3G Subscribe to the ANC YouTube channel! https://www.youtube.com/user/ANCalerts Visit our website at https://news.abs-cbn.com/anc Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ancalerts Twitter: https://twitter.com/ancalerts #ANCNews #ANCHighlights #ABSCBNNews
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00:00.0
Good morning, Gilbert. Good morning, Niki.
00:03.0
All right. First, your thoughts on the conviction of the cop involved in the killing of Carl Arnaiz and Reynaldo Colote de Guzman after five years?
00:12.0
Well, we are glad that the court, yes, the Navotas Court, which has convicted them of murder and also for the Takalookan Court has convicted them for torture.
00:23.0
So we have two convictions on rights violations of these teenagers.
00:29.0
We actually always feel that any victory of any mother or family is our victory as well.
00:39.0
You must imagine that some of the families are unable to go to court and whatever success the other families have, they treat it as their own.
00:49.0
And Attorney Cote, is there a danger of the conviction being overturned as Bayan Muna is warning?
00:54.0
If you look at the ruling, there's no question about who killed Carl Arnaiz because there is an eyewitness.
01:00.0
But with respect to Colote de Guzman, there was an issue about the DNA test, that the results of the DNA test of the cadaver did not match those of the Guzman's parents.
01:10.0
But the Navotas Court still found basis to convict the cop.
01:13.0
So do you think there's a possibility of reasonable doubt there when this case gets to the appeal stage?
01:19.0
Yes, Mike, that's a material issue that we will be looking at as the appeal, obviously, proceeds to the Court of Appeals and then eventually to the Supreme Court.
01:32.0
So this is only the second known conviction of a murder homicide case of a cop or a policeman in a, so to speak, nalabang killing.
01:46.0
So we are thinking that while the lower courts might be finding this convincing, it could be a different matter altogether in the Court of Appeals.
01:57.0
In your statement with Rise Up and NUPL, you said this case shouldn't detract us from asserting that the justice system in the Philippines is inhospitable to human rights prosecution.
02:06.0
Wouldn't this conviction, though, even if it came after five years, support the Philippine government's position that if the ICC just gives us a time, the Philippines will eventually hold the perpetrators accountable?
02:19.0
It's not time that we need, but really a lot of effort.
02:22.0
In the two cases that already have convictions, you had public protests, and we can't do that for all of the cases.
02:31.0
And so far from all the killings, say, if we take from the 6,252 nalabang killings, nalabang dead, how many cases have been filed?
02:42.0
So it's not time that you need, but political will, as well as effort, not only of the families, but of everybody else.
02:49.0
Let me gather your thoughts now on the appeal filed by the Philippine government over the ICC pretrial chamber's ruling to resume the ICC's probe on the drug war in the Philippines.
02:59.0
Now, the Philippines wants the appeal chamber to reverse the resumption and to stop the probe while the appeal is being heard.
03:05.0
Is there basis to suspend the proceeding's pending appeal?
03:10.0
The Philippine government is saying the prosecution has the burden of proof to say that the deferral request is not genuine.
03:17.0
Well, they would have basis in the sense that they can ask the appeals chamber to consider the continuation or the evaluation of the investigation efforts in the Philippines.
03:32.0
However, we would have to oppose that because even if it pursues the same kind of investigation as it has done or as it is doing now, then we won't have the kind of results that the ICC is looking for.
03:51.0
So in particular, the Philippine government, with this kind of investigation that is pursuing now, with this line, with this effort to prosecute policemen, low-ranking policemen,
04:04.0
the ICC, in particular the Office of the Prosecutor, says that that's not looking at who is most responsible. That's just looking at the small fry.
04:15.0
There was mention in that particular appeal, Attorney Conte, that the Philippine government thinks those most accountable are very well the low-ranking officers or mid-ranking officers in the drug war.
04:30.0
What do you make of that statement in the appeal of the Philippine government?
04:34.0
That was most chilling for us, that assertion that, oh, maybe it would be the most responsible, a low-ranking or a mid-ranking police officer.
04:43.0
That's obviously not true with the way that this government, in particular President Duterte, the previous government even, has branded about all these statistics.
04:57.0
So many people killed, so many people arrested, and from the very beginning of his administration, President Duterte promised us deaths and killings and blood.
05:07.0
So it is this president who may very well be pointed out to be the root cause or the root source of all these orders to kill, kill, kill.
05:19.0
So it's hypocritical of them now to say that, oh, no, maybe it's a police chief or, say, a station chief who has ordered all these killings. Very hypocritical.
05:33.0
And one of the arguments in the appeal is on the issue of jurisdiction.
05:36.0
The Philippines argues that the ICC can only retain jurisdiction even after withdrawal from the Rome Statute if there had already been an investigation prior to the withdrawal.
05:46.0
So here, there was only a preliminary examination on the situation in the Philippines. How would you address that argument?
05:54.0
The wording in the ICC, in the Rome Statute, is that this is a matter before the court already.
06:02.0
Their argument is that this is not a formal matter or a formal proceeding already and that the preliminary examination is precisely preliminary and that this is not a formal proceeding.
06:12.0
However, of course, we would have to counter that and say that it is within the rules of the ICC that a preliminary examination is the first step.
06:22.0
In fact, if you look at it in Philippine terms, this is a preliminary investigation, PI, and it's part of the formal process already.
06:32.0
So they are just nitpicking, so to speak, on these matters, I think.
06:38.0
Now, the Philippine government is also saying that the ICC is frustrating its efforts to engage with the ICC,
06:46.0
that these efforts were not credited, and that its offer to maintain cooperation was unreasonably cut off
06:53.0
because it applied a higher threshold as to what kind of investigations can be considered as complying with its requirement of investigations on drug war killings.
07:02.0
What do you make of this assertion? Is that necessarily the case?
07:07.0
Is the ICC not giving enough credit to the kind of investigations that the Philippines is doing over the drug war killings?
07:14.0
You know, I don't think so.
07:16.0
The ICC, the Office of the Prosecutor, has looked closely into the investigations in the Philippines.
07:23.0
And even if we were to look at 302, that's the number that they are putting in this document, or say 250 or 52 as they first announced,
07:37.0
the investigations in the Philippines are clearly characterized by one, looking at individual culpability of low-ranking police officers.
07:47.0
Second, looking at the individual cases or killings or homicides, or sometimes in the 52 reports, there were just arrests.
07:57.0
And then thirdly, these killings are not looking at the overall perspective of the killings.
08:04.0
From what we've gathered in the 52 cases, these appear to be those that have been reported to the PNPES, those that have been reported to the police.
08:13.0
And they can very well vet or check these cases, and I'm sure they have already taken out those that might not really be helpful to the case of the government or of the Philippines.
08:27.0
So in this sense, these cases have been cherry-picked.
08:31.0
They are not characteristic or an embodiment of what happened in the entire Philippines.
08:38.0
If you note in the 52 cases that have been really presented well, because it's the 52 that have details.
08:46.0
The 250 have very few details as far as I know.
08:50.0
The 52 have in particular names of those who were accused or are being investigated, circumstances of the investigation, and most importantly, status of the investigation.
09:01.0
In the 52 cases, none of them were committed in Bulacan, which is one of the hotspots of the drug war.
09:09.0
Only two, I think, were in Quezon City, and a few were in Navotas.
09:15.0
But how about Caloocan, which is also one of the hotspots?
09:19.0
So it's questionable how the government is proceeding with this investigation.
09:24.0
And we think that the ICC was just there in saying that these investigations are clearly insufficient in looking at the entirety of the war on drugs in the Philippines.
09:37.0
And lastly, Attorney Conte, one of the lawyers who signed the appeal of the Philippine government is a top-notch British lawyer.
09:43.0
Her name is Sarah Bafadel, who specializes in international criminal law, public international law, and human rights law.
09:50.0
We don't have information yet if she's giving her services for free or if she's being paid, but assuming that she was hired by the Philippine government,
09:59.0
is the Philippine government justified in spending to hire a lawyer to defend the drug war of the previous administration?
10:08.0
Well, I would say not, because they have a solicitor general who has appeared for the Philippines since they started cooperating with the ICC.
10:21.0
And I don't see a reason to be spending money on an international lawyer just to defend, in particular, I would say, President Duterte.
10:32.0
I think this is suspiciously in line with the recent announcement of former President Arroyo as congressman.
10:41.0
I think they made a resolution in the lower house saying that the Philippines should present the best defense possible for President Duterte.
10:51.0
That is so sad that they're offering the best services, best legal defense to someone who is clearly a human rights violator and refusing this kind of assistance to those who really need it the most.
11:06.0
President Duterte has money, I would say, and he has the backing of this government, so why hire somebody else and pay for that kind of service?
11:17.0
So we have yet to see how much he's being paid for this engagement, but I'm pretty sure that when these things come to light, there will be a lot of people disgruntled.
11:33.0
All right. Andano, thank you so much for your time and your insights this morning.
11:37.0
Attorney Maria Cristina Conte of NUPL-NCR.
11:40.0
Thank you, Mike and Nikki.
11:46.0
Thank you.


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