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'Make polluters pay': Expert says PH lacks corporate liability law | TeleRadyo
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The Mindoro oil spill must serve as a wake-up call to make companies liable for environmental disasters through legislation, an expert said. For more TeleRadyo videos, click the link below: https://bit.ly/TeleRadyo2022_2 To watch the latest updates on COVID-19, click the link below: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL7amYNiWriCxDMQr0qW4Q_QS25yEr6PCT For more TeleRadyo full episodes, click the link below: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgyY1WylJUmgJC37ssz2eLnr18Tn7Plid Subscribe to the ABS-CBN News channel! - http://bit.ly/TheABSCBNNews Watch the full episodes of TV Patrol on iWantTFC: http://bit.ly/TVPatrol-iWantTFC Visit our website at http://news.abs-cbn.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/abscbnNEWS Twitter: https://twitter.com/abscbnnews #TeleRadyo #ABSCBNNews #LatestNews
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Run time: 23:28
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00:00.0
Good morning Tony! Good morning KC!
00:03.0
Good morning! Sarap ng ihip ng hangin kung nasan man kayo.
00:07.0
Hindi, ano lang yan, background lang yan.
00:10.0
Ikaw naman, binibiro lang kita, alam ko naman yun.
00:13.0
Pero nakaka-good vibes ha?
00:15.0
O ano, papunta rin ako ng Mindanao soon so may background akong totoong ganyan.
00:20.0
But this is parang palawan ata ito.
00:25.0
At sinamahan niyo ng inyong outfit.
00:29.0
I'm giving aside from you kasi siyempre issue natin ngayon ang oil spill.
00:35.0
But I'm giving also talk on rights of nature mamayang hapon.
00:40.0
This is a green day even if it's not a good day.
00:44.0
It really isn't.
00:46.0
Because of what's happening in the Mundoro, Verde Island area.
00:50.0
Talagang, ay naku.
00:53.0
Diba?
00:55.0
Tulad-tulad sabi ni Tokayo, hindi na tayo natuto.
00:59.0
May magkantayan si Gary Valenciano diba?
01:02.0
Unfortunately.
01:05.0
Di naman ito rocket science.
01:07.0
Hindi naman ito rocket science.
01:10.0
Grabe ang failures natin dito, regulatory failures ng ating gobyerno dito sa Mundoro.
01:19.0
Actually, Dean Tony, kapag ganitong may aksidente nga,
01:25.0
dapat ang primary agencies that should be investigating, at least, para sa akin lang,
01:32.0
should be the DENR.
01:34.0
All right. Tapos dahil nangyari ito sa karagatan,
01:37.0
yung Philippine Coast Guard.
01:39.0
And maybe BIFAR dahil apektado na rin pati fisheries.
01:42.0
Isahin natin yung mga ahensyang na banggit ko, Dean Tony.
01:46.0
Sa panigpo ng DENR, do you feel that they are or it is doing enough to address this calamity?
01:56.0
Well right now kasi hindi actually natin sure kung ano ba talagang ginagawa ng bawat agency.
02:02.0
So sa DENR naman kasi dito, ang una talaga ang magagawa lang talaga ng DENR right now, yung assessment lang.
02:16.0
Assessment sa damage on the environment, on fisheries, on biodiversity, on the coastal areas.
02:27.0
Yan naman talaga, yan lang magagawa ng DENR. Sa immediate, previously and future,
02:36.0
I think importante dito, importante yung pag demarcate nila yung area na yan,
02:50.0
na very rich in biodiversity na bawal yung mga ships, lalo na yung mga oil tankers, gas tankers, yung mga ganyan.
03:00.0
Sino gagawa nun Dean Tony? Sino mag-demarcate nun?
03:03.0
At DENR yan a job.
03:05.0
DENR.
03:06.0
DENR yung magsasabi na protected yung seascape na ito.
03:11.0
So importante yan for the future. Matagal na yan ang dinidemand namin.
03:17.0
You will see may statement yung maraming lawyers, led by lawyers from Oceana, from the Sunseed, Greenpeace and others.
03:27.0
Pero maraming lawyers, lots of lawyers from Indoro na huwag dapat padaanan sa area na yan.
03:34.0
Kasi that's very rich in biodiversity and fisheries.
03:39.0
So yan, yan DENR yan mismo. Kasi yung role ng DENR dito is to declare the value of the place.
03:46.0
Ito ang halaga ng lugar na ito. Kaya dapat siyang protectahan.
03:55.0
Dean Tony, balikan ko lang yung sinabi mo kanina na parang tila hindi kayo nakakakuha or there's not enough information coming from all the agencies na atasang sumaklolo, magbigay ng tulong dito sa nangyayari.
04:11.0
Bakit ko kaya ganun? Na tila may lack of information.
04:14.0
Sabi nga ng ibang environmental grupo, groups na nakakausap namin, parang tila walang transparency.
04:23.0
Do you get the same feeling? Ganun din ba ang assessment ninyo?
04:26.0
Yes. In the statement that we issued yesterday, yes, very strong yung idea na yan.
04:35.0
Grabe, three weeks na ang dami pa natin hindi alam, including kung sino pa talaga ang nag-contract sa ship na ito.
04:42.0
I mean maraming sasabi as San Miguel but there's no clear statement from the government agencies. Anong dahilan?
04:53.0
I'm not going to impute bad faith at this point. Di natin alam kasi I think people are making an effort.
05:04.0
Pero I always say this, in other words most probably right now it's more or so, maraming many of the agencies are at a loss of what's happening, what to do, what happened.
05:17.0
Talagang may ignorance na nangyayari. But may political economy around ignorance. It's a very popular term that we used to use in the 70s and 80s.
05:31.0
When things happen, ano ang dahilan? Ignorance. Hindi an excuse because there's a political reason, an economic reason why we pretend these things are not happening.
05:45.0
Very clear regulatory failures dito especially on the part of the Coast Guard. I mean in terms of clearing the ship for travel, for supply, etc.
06:01.0
So ganoon din siguro, even after just a few years we had a major oil spill in Guimaras, parang hindi pa rin natin put into place yung system to do it right.
06:16.0
There's a reason for that. It benefits those who... Itong oil spill, let's be very clear about this. Itong tanker na ito, itong mga nag-contract na ito will not suffer.
06:31.0
Kasi insured yan. They would not have done this given the amounts of money involved. They wouldn't have done this without insurance.
06:40.0
But there's always a failure to have that insurance pay for the impacts. Kabayaran lang yung loss ng product or the ship itself.
06:55.0
Rarely is that same money used to actually pay for impacts on livelihoods, which can last for years. Yan ang naging problem sa lack of transparency natin na may dahilan.
07:12.0
Kasi siyempre gusto ng company na sa kanila lang yung pera na yan. I think that's what we have to really change dito. Baguhin na natin siya. Kasi hindi pwede every time na lang may oil spill.
07:25.0
Yung palaging holding the bag, yung palaging nagdudusa ay yung ating kapwa Pilipino, lalo na yung mga mahihirap, yung mga fisher folk, yung mga nakatira sa coastal areas
07:43.0
dependent on livelihood from fisheries and from coastal tourism. Imagine kung gaano kalaking pinsala ito yung mga local governments.
07:57.0
They rarely get anything from the insurance. Kailangan natin siya ayusin yan. Even with all the changes in the law, the legal system medyo marami ng changes.
08:08.0
I've also known that because for years I actually worked on this area of marine pollution, including in that area in Batangas. Kasi prone talaga yan ng ganitong mga aksidente.
08:23.0
Unfortunately, yan ang ruta natin.
08:25.0
Nandun yung refinery. Nandun yung refinery mismo. Nasa Batangas.
08:31.0
Tanongin natin kay Dean Tony pala partner. So given, sabi niyo nga, even if there is insurance for the vehicle na daladalan nito, there is no mechanism established by law
08:45.0
kung ano ang financial liability ng isang kumpanya na nagiging cost ng isang environmental disaster.
08:55.0
Meron po ba kayong panukala, Dean Tony, na dapat nga na maisabatas meron ng gawing sistema how the offending party or group can provide adequate compensation
09:14.0
to communities na maaring mapinsala o maapektuhan ng calamity, natural calamity na dulot nila, environmental calamity.
09:22.0
At babayaran din nila dapat kung ano ang responsibility nila to undertake the cleanup. Sila ang magbayad ng cleanup.
09:33.0
Yes. Ngayon talagang dapat sila magbabayad ng cleanup. Pero syempre di mo sila pwedeng hintayin na gawin nila. Government has to start doing it.
09:45.0
But dapat ikiklaim ng government yan. That's the easier part. Nandyan sa batas na in fact yung cleanup is really on the part of the polluter. Ang mas challenging yung impacts, lalo ng long term yung impacts ng nangyaring disaster.
10:03.0
So yan ang kailangan natin sa batas ng mabuti. Ang tawag ko dyan Tokayo is kailangan ng Corporate Environmental Liability Act ang Pilipinas. We don't have that hanggang ngayon.
10:17.0
Ang most that we have are just fines. Pero maliit ang fines. Hindi siya deterrent at hindi siya enough to pay for the damage. Basically, companies that damage anything because of their activities should pay for that damage.
10:40.0
They should compensate fishermen for their loss of livelihood, local governments for their loss of revenue, resort owners for their loss of… Hindi lang itigil sila, hindi lang ifine sila, but they actually have to pay for it and also insure themselves for it.
11:01.0
So yan ang dapat gawin ng nating system. Yan ang kulang sa mga batas natin. Andami nating magagandang environmental loss. But we still do not have a Corporate Environmental Liability Act which many countries already have, which is kung may damage, ang magbabayad ay yung company and not through fines only.
11:28.0
Kasi fine, maliit lang yung fine. One million a day, maliit lang yan. It cannot pay for the damage.
11:34.0
So Tony, ngayon pong araw na ito, nakatakda pumunta si Justice Secretary Crispin Remulla para makipagpulong mismo kay Polatown Mayor Jennifer Cruz. Paki-explain din po sa amin. Pakilarawan sa amin.
11:51.0
Kasi andami. Ang sinasabi ni Congressman Jerezco, liable up to P330 million or so itong kumpanyang ito by way of international conventions. Pero meron din gustong isang pangkaso itong si Mayor Cruz.
12:09.0
Meron din siyempre kailangan isulong ang gobyerno mismo. Pero ano ang laban dito sa kumpanyang ito? Anong magiging itsura nito? Kung kayo ang mag-de-define ng strategya kung paano ito maisusulong at mailalaban, saan mag-uumpisa at anong itsura nito?
12:34.0
Mag-uumpisa talaga siya sa magandang at accurate na assessment ng damage. Kasi okay lang magsabi P300 million, P330 million pero most likely ang damage is much bigger than that.
13:04.0
So ito ang mga sorts, ordinary ang tao. Yan ang pinakabasic mo muna na gagawin. Unfortunately, I'll just idadampen ko ng konting entusiasm natin to file cases. Kasi pagkaso mo idadaan, matagal siya. Yan ang another kailangan natin gawin sa ating sistema.
13:29.0
Dapat ang ganito administrative dapat ang process. Ibig sabihin hindi siya dadaan sa korte. Pwede ma-review ng SC or COA kung ano mang decision ng isang arbitration group or adjudication board.
13:59.0
Ano talagang exactong amount na dapat mong i-charge sa mga…
14:05.0
So kung hindi sa korte, ano ang laban nila Mayor Cruz?
14:11.0
Ang laban nila dito, actually sa totoo, ang laban nila dito is going to be a negotiated agreement para mabilis. Pero yan nga, kailangan nilang basis ay kailangan malaman nila kagad ng mabilisan, rapid assessment.
14:28.0
Anong nasira? At dahil nasira ang mga ito, anong epekto nito for years sa mga tao at sa LGU mismo? At yan ang i-demand nila sa mga companies. Involve ang shipping at sa tingin ko kahit kasasabi ng batas na hindi kasama ang contractor.
14:58.0
The Pockets, a company with good corporate social responsibility, says all the good things about environment. Si Ramon Ang is very supportive and I appreciate that of the environment. Baka malaki din makukuha mo na settlement galing sa kanila.
15:28.0
So parang ridiculous hanggang ngayon hindi natin alam kung sino. O pag-disclose kung sino.
15:58.0
Sa Loma wala nga case. Malinaw yan sa batas. It's the vessel, the owner of the vessel that has the responsibility. Pero dahil insured din yung product na yan, baka you can ask for that or find a legal theory around that.
16:28.0
Alaming natin kung sino talaga nag-contract ng ship na yan. For example, give you an example, kung halimbawa ma-confirm yung reports na hindi pala ito seaworthy o may kakulangan sa regulatory ang ship na ito, yung barco na ito, tatanungin natin may responsibility ba yung nag-contract to make sure na yung kanilang kinontrata is actually seaworthy?
16:59.0
If it's going to be first and foremost through a negotiated settlement, Atty. Lavinia, ano naman ang inaasahan yung sasabihin ng owner ng kumpanya na taliwas naman sa gustong mangyari nung mga naapektuhan ng oil spill na ito?
17:22.0
Kasi siyempre back and forth yan. Para walang gulatan, sa tingin ninyo ano ang sasabihin ng owner ng kumpanya para may ilaban din sila?
17:34.0
What they will probably do is ilimit nila yung kanilang liability dun sa kung anumang sa tingin nila inaano ng batas. So basically sa cleanup, I would suspect na ang strategy nila, sige kami sa cleanup, hindi talaga nila give us the bill for the cleanup.
17:57.0
Eventually coming out sila mag-takeover ng cleanup, mag-contract ng lahat ng mga ganoon. Depends sa company kasi parang hindi natin alam if this particular company is actually...
18:10.0
Kaya yan ang punto ko, yung contract can be liable if they actually contract to the company that is not capable for doing these things. But let's assume na capable sila, then eventually they take over the cleanup, they pay for all the cleanup.
18:40.0
At the end of it, bahala na kayo sa buhay niyo, bahala na si Batman sa inyo. Ganoon talaga nangyayari.
19:05.0
Because may gap sa batas natin on corporate liability for the impacts. For the cleanup, yes. For the fines, yes. The violations of the law, yes. But for the impact. Kasi ang laki talaga ng impact.
19:22.0
Yan ang pinaka big cost. Yung anong ginawa mo sa kalikasan, na dahil ginawa mo yan sa kalikasan, libo-libong mga tao ngayon na hindi pwede mangingisda, libo-libong mga tao ngayon na nawalan ng trabaho sa mga resorts mo.
19:42.0
Walang revenue ngayon yung local government at anong epekto niyan.
19:47.0
Dean Tony, sorry to cut you short. Medyo pa-ubos na iyong oras natin, medyo dalawang minuto na lang. Pero in the short time remaining,
19:55.0
dahil nabanggit nyo na rin na kulang tayo sa corporate environmental liability legislation. Sa tingin nyo po ba Dean Tony, may mga mambabatas na maaaring hindi particularly willing na magsulong ng ganitong klaseng batas?
20:16.0
I can't imagine why anyone would be against it. Sa tingin ko, it's just that it's time to do this. It's time to make the polluters pay. Sa Pilipinas yan ang what we've never done. With all the beautiful loss that we have, we have never let the polluter pay for the damage that it causes.
20:40.0
Well big businesses are usually the biggest polluters. Kung sakaling yung mga big businesses nito might exert some kind of influence over our lawmakers, hindi ba kaya yun ang maging dahilan kung bakit ayaw nila or hindi sila particularly interested in pursuing such a law?
21:00.0
Pwede pero alam mo kasi we've never tried it. I've never seen a law, a bill like this progress. Mabilis mag-progress yung other environmental laws pero hindi ito. We just need champions and I'm sure we can find champions in both the Senate and the House para ituloy. Time talaga to do this.
21:20.0
Otherwise, yung other thing na kailangan gawin, preventive talaga siya. So never again natin dapat gamitin yung area na yan. For oil tankers, mas maguro expensive flying, I mean moving in another area or another route.
21:37.0
Pero huwag talaga, huwag mo irisk yung Verde Island Passage area. That's the richest marine biodiversity for fisheries in the world. In the world, hindi lang Pilipinas.
21:50.0
At ang daming nakikinabang dyan. So preventive na lang kung ayaw natin ng liability. Ang maganda kasi ng liability is alam din ng corporate na kung gawin niya ito at ito yung risk na gawin niya, babayaran niya.
22:04.0
Medyo regression, yung mga reclamation ngayon sa Manila Bay. Kung sila ang magbabayad ng damage that they will cause, they'll have second thoughts about doing those reclamation happening now.
22:18.0
Right now happening in Manila Bay. You will see it. Pero alam nila may impunity sila. Kasi alam nila kahit lumubog yung buong Manila, lumubog yung Intramuros dahil sa reclamation nila,
22:30.0
they don't have to pay for it. The country will pay for it. Viktima pa sila. Viktima pa sila sa lagay na ito.
22:37.0
So another issue magandang pag-usapan pero siguro for another time i-set aside natin. But we want to talk about also yung environmental impact ng Manila Bay reclamation.
22:46.0
In the meantime Dean Tony, thank you so much sa oras na binigay ninyo sa amin. Enjoy your beautiful virtual beach.
22:54.0
Langhap-langhap ng sariwang simoy ng hangin dyan.
22:57.0
Sa digital simoy ng hangin.
23:00.0
Sa sariwang digital simoy ng hangin. Thanks Dean. Take care po.
23:05.0
Salamat. Salamat po. Si Atty. Tony Lavinia ng Manila Observatory.
23:23.0
Thank you.