Paano mo ba masisiguro na nabibilang nang tama ang boto mo sa isang automated election system? May mga suggestion ang NAMFREL at yan ang pag-uusapan natin. Pagkatapos nito, tatalakayin natin ang mahalagang ambag ni dating Foreign Secretary Albert Del Rosario sa panalo ng Pilipinas laban sa China sa artibitration case nito kaugnay sa South China Sea.

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... So that's the end of our episode ngayong gabi ng Facts First. As always maraming salamat po sa inyong patuloy na pagtangkilik sa ating programa. We have a packed program for tonight. Dalaw po ang topics natin. Unang-una alam ko marami rito ay ayaw bitawan ang issue kung nagkaroon ba ng malawakan daw dayaan noong nakarang eleksyon.

... Tapos tingnan natin, possibly ba talaga madaya? Pero higit doon pag-uusapan natin siyempre ang solution, how to improve the system. Tapos pagkatapos, pag-uusapan naman natin ang pagpanaw ni dating Foreign Secretary Albert Del Rosario. Ang tanyang nalungkot sa kanyang pagpanaw at pag-uusapan natin ang kanyang legacy.

Erika Flores. Isa po siyang estudyante ng economics sa UP Diliman. Nag-message ang kanyang kaibigan na si Lena Saturnino. Shoutout kay Erika. Talagang nanonood siya ng ating programa.

... I was told si Erika was among the organizers. So isa sa mga kabataan natin na talagang meron bright future ahead of her. So belated happy birthday to you Erika, 22 years old siya yesterday. I wish you all the success in the world and of course I hope you would find your niche in this vast universe and mas makatulong tayo sa kapwa-tao natin, in particular Pilipino.

So ngayon punta po tayo sa ating first topic sa gabing ito. I'd like to welcome to our program for the first time, makakasama po natin ang isang eksperto pagdating po sa IT issues at sa eleksyon.

Siya po ang Systems Group Head ng National Citizens Movement for Free Elections o NAMFRED. I'd like to welcome si Mr. Fernando J.R. Contreras Jr. Magandang gabi sir and thank you for joining us dito sa Facts Verse.

Pagdating dito sa ating automated election system. Unang-una pag-usapan natin, kasi nga ngayon miskit tapos na eleksyon at medyo malayo-layo pa midterm elections natin sa 2025, meron tayong nakikita ng chatter o ingay sa social media na talaga nagdududa pagdating doon sa nangyirisulta ng presidential election ng 2022.

Ang pag-usapan natin siguro sa monitoring niyo dahil nagsimula ang automated election system natin 2010. Ano ba yung nakita niyong weakness talaga?

Yung ginagamit nating election system, isa sa pinaka-komplikado sa buong mundo. Kung bagay siya pinaka-high tech na sistema sa buong mundo. So ang isang challenge dito na naging weakness na rin, kukonti ang nakakaintindi ng sistema.

So para sa isang butante, nung sinimula ang PCOS na naging BCM, para sa karamihan black box. Yan ang nagiging problema sa transparency. At saka diyan na kukwestiyon ngayon ang integridad na election.

Mga pamamaraan para protectahan niya tulad ng source code review, audit checks and everything. Pero napakalikit ng grupo na nakakakita. So ang nangyari kasi sobrang pumasok sa technical setup, limitado na ang grupo na nakakaintindi ng buong sistema.

So hindi nakikita yung picture. Siyempre pag ikaw ang halimbawa na hindi maganda ang resulta ng election para sa iyo, babalikan mo parang hindi totoo ang resulta. So ganoon yan.

So it's difficult to explain, nandoon lagi pumapasok yung haka-haka, baka may dayan na nangyari. Napaka-possible ba talaga?

Pero sa dami ng checks na ginawa, so far wala kami nakikita na concrete proof. Hindi kami happy. Halimbawa sa nakarang election lang, yung mismong current chairman ng NAMFRA nakapuna na hindi nagtugma ang hashcode.

So ano implication? Implication noon yung dumaan sa source code review, baka hindi yun yung nakaload sa sistema. Pero madali naman i-disprove kasi maraming checks, maraming redundancy. Pero nandung pa rin yung agam-agam, nandung pa rin yung pangamba. Bakit ba't nangyari yan?

So ano ulit yan? Para nakikita natin...

... programa from a human-readable source code or program magiging binary na siya na mababasa ng computer. May lalabas na parang checksum. Parang sinigurado lang natin na yun yung source code.

Pero nang lumabas, hindi kami binalikan ng steering committee noon ng COMELEC, typographic error. Pero medyo ang hirap tanggapin noon. I mean paglaki ng binahid sa kanila tapos typographic error yung paliwanag, medyo mabigat yan. At hindi nila binigyan ng oras para i-disprove. So yan lang naman yung punto namin. So syempre may haka-haka na.

Q1. Iba iwasan yung unnecessary suspicion? Kasi dito pag hindi mo pinatulan yung isang angulo sabihin, apo-apo, bore ka sa kabila. Medyo napaka simplistic ng argument ng mga tao online. E kung wala naman dayaan, unfair sa pinagbibintangan. Pero kung may dayaan, dapat talagang tutukan nyo.

... Pero pinapakita ang kahinaan ng checks ng proseso. Parang isang check, maaring sumablay, madaki implication. Pero wala kami kongkretong preba na nagkaroon ng dayaan. Hindi kami happy sa nangyari sa proseso pero walang preba ang nagkaroon ng dayaan."

Q2. Anong transmission noong election results pagkasara ng polling noong May 2022? Kaduda-duda ba talaga yan? Ba't ambilis biglang sumulpot 20M votes in less than an hour?

... Kasi napakaliit ang pinadadala. Sabi nila, ang isang argument na lumalabas sa isang grupo, sabi nila dapat ang poll closing abutin ng minimum 30 minutes. Sabi ko nga, teka ako mismo personal na nagbantay sa dalawang polling place sa Makati, umalis ako sa isang polling place at 7.08 nakatransmit na sila. So madaling i-disprove. Tapos kung yan lang ang basihan mo ng argumento...

... Ang proseso after the closing magpiprint siya ng walong kopya ng election returns tapos ipopost na ang isa para makita ng publiko, magtatransmit. Tapos magpiprint ulit sila ng 22 more copies. Kung nadaya yan, di may makikita tayong sablay sa comparison between the printed copies and the transmitted one. So wala kami nakita from the side of Napra.

Q1. Ang resulta ng presidential election?

Q1. Pag kinundak mo rin yung time and motion study, parang improbable na makapag-transmit at least within the first 30 minutes? Kasi you have to print 8 election returns?

... By 7 or 8 nakatransmit na sila. Tandaan niyo ang proseso niya sa polling place. Pag wala nang pumapasok sa polling place, isasara ang gate ng skwela. Kung may nakapila roon papapasukin pero sasara ang gate.

So may polling place na naghihintay kasi nasira ang BCM pero maliit din ang bilang ngayong election. So karamihan natapos 7. Yung closing procedure, ginawan din namin ng time and motion study yan, hindi lalampas ng 3 minuto. Yung printing another 3 minutes. It's just a minute or two. Napaka-late nung bakit may papadala."

Q2. Sa pinapakita ng transmission server, hindi rin nagtugmay ang oras? Limulutang din yan ng social media, online?

... Mag-transmission sa primary server, secondary tapos sa transparency. Maaring yan. Kung talagang nakita sila yan, simple yan. Maraming kopya yung election returns. Hanap lang sila ng isang kopya ng election return na hindi nagmatch sa transparency server.

Q2. Tapos na yan?

... Ang isang litrato pag pinadala mo ngayon sa cellphone siguro kasya sa size ng isang litrato na kinunan mo sa cellphone mo, ang 5-10 ER. Gano magpadala, kabilis magpadala ng litrato ngayon? Siguro lang.

Q3. Kung nakikinig ka sa discussion, kung sino man yung poon mong politiko? Actually ang kinay-kwento rito ni JR, pabor pa nga sa poon mo pero mukha hindi mo naintindihan yung pinag-uusapan dito. Okay?

... Kami wala kami pinuprotektahan. Ang sinasabi namin ang mandato ng MP protectahan ang boto kahit sino nanalo. So ginagawa namin yan. Sa totoo nga kaya may rekomendasyon kami para ma-improve yung susunod na halalang."

... In one instance for example, sinipa ako sa meeting ng steering committee dahil hindi nila nagustuhan yung mga technical recommendation. Hindi ako nag-apologize sa Comilec, inaaway namin sila hanggang ngayon pag hindi tama yung sinasabi nila. In fact kung titignan ninyo ang report ng Namprel, hanggang ngayon hinihiling namin ipakita nila paano yung trusted bill ginawa at pakita yung tamang hashcode."

... Ngayon 2022. Ngayon 2025 yung bago, nalaman lang namin ng Senate hearing na hindi na kami kasama."

... Hindi naman sa pagbubuhat ng Banko Christian, kung titignan mo ang minutes of meetings ng Comilec Advisory Council especially in 2022, pagtinignan mo sino may pinakaginawang maraming report at maraming rekomendasyon, lilitaw naman ang pangalan ng Namprel."

Q1. How sure are we na nabilang ang boto natin? O kung nabilang man, tama?

Q1. How sure are we na nabilang ang boto natin? O kung nabilang man, tama?

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So he was a devotee of Mother Mary, the Virgin Mary?

As I mentioned, Christian normally will not be talking about religion.

But last week, he was extra sentimental and he was extra religious.

And he was looking forward to spending time with Our Lady.

So for me, it was an extraordinary conversation.

Because the Secretary spent a lot of time talking about Our Lady.

As I mentioned, religion for him is a very private thing for every individual.

And he would be very careful to intrude into that privacy.

But he was very outspoken at the time.

How would you describe him as a diplomat? Kasi ang dami natin nakikita mga testimonial sa kanya.

Pero kaya, someone who actually worked with him very closely?

He's a diplomat extraordinaire from my perspective.

Not only in terms of his character, how he conducts himself,

the very character and the substance that he puts into the actions,

into the things that he does.

Normally, he will walk the talk.

One thing that makes the Secretary very credible is his attention

to make sure that whenever he articulates or says something,

he will try to make good of that.

So he's somebody that he will try his best to walk the talk.

And I think that gives a lot of credibility.

And translate that personality in terms of diplomacy.

Then you know how that kind of character and substance and demeanor

would be able to command respect.

And that's how it was.

On the time that I was with him as he conducts that diplomacy,

I saw how he's able to command respect.

And I think the evidence to that is the fact that we're able to move the country

in terms of our diplomacy in very significant steps,

in the South China Sea, in ASEAN,

and in terms of other aspects of our diplomatic conduct.

And much of that can be attributed to the Secretary,

his persona, his own character, his own demeanor,

and his ability and his credibility and his ability to walk all the time his talk.

And when you look at the substance of what he says,

you can see the seriousness and the sincerity.

And I think this is what other diplomats are able to see from the Secretary,

that sincerity that spills over and I think that impacts them.

And it is that sincerity that at the end of the day was able to move policymakers

from other countries to try to accommodate and somehow listen to our own articulation.

And if one is going to look at how the Secretary was able to move,

ASEAN in terms of where we want ASEAN to go,

empirically you will see how much the Secretary's impacted the direction of ASEAN.

If I may.

For a long time, South China Sea was not part of the official agenda of ASEAN.

If ever, it was only discussed on the side, but never part of an official agenda.

And the reason for that is because obviously China would not want this to be part of the agenda of ASEAN.

And then comes 2012, Cambodia.

And it became a litmus test for us.

And we stood, the Secretary with his leadership, we stood our ground for what is right.

That even if there's no joint statement, we will not budge.

We will not blink because what we are articulating is what is right.

And so there was no joint statement that year.

But you may notice the year after that, the issue of South China Sea became part of the official agenda every year.

And to this day, the reason why we are able to discuss South China Sea in a very official way,

as part of the official agenda is primarily because of that.

It was a heroic thing.

And when that was done, the Secretary got a lot of flak.

And the term microphone diplomacy came into being.

A very pejorative, which is not true, really.

Because we will not say, the Secretary never, never bad-mouthed any country.

He was sincere, but the sincerity was given that interpretation.

It was more of a twist by critics.

But in all of those engagements, I have not seen the Secretary bad-mouth anyone.

But he was very straightforward in a very sincere way.

And at the end of the day, it was that sincerity that has brought the possibility of the problem now being resolved, or at least discussed seriously.

Because how can you resolve a problem when you ignore it, when you don't even talk about it?

And it was he who was able to put that issue on the table as an important agenda.

And as such, therefore, people will have to pay attention.

And I think we are where we are now precisely because of those strong-willed articulations of the Secretary.

Obviously, the President at the time, because the chief architect of every foreign policy of every administration should be the President.

So as I praised the Secretary, this is not meant to take away any credit from anyone.

And so that's not the intention.

But solely from the perspective of the Secretary, this is how I knew him.

This is what I saw to the last end.

The consistency, the constancy, the credibility, the integrity, and all of those helped the Philippines conduct its diplomacy at the highest level.

Indeed, Ambassador-designate Henry V. Surto, so many memories, so many things to remember the former Secretary for.

And sir, maraming maraming salamat po for taking the time to join us tonight.

And I know, I invited you because I realized how important this is for you also as someone very close to the Secretary.

But sir, we thank you for talking to us about the Secretary.

Salamat po, sir.

Thank you also, Christian, and thank you for remembering the Secretary.

I think he's a real hero, a true hero.

You, I, we might have lost a friend, but the country lost a hero, a good man, a national treasure.

And I think his works will reverberate in the long future, essentially.

And it is my hope that future young generations of Filipinos can come back and study and learn from the Secretary.

Thank you very much.

Maraming salamat po, Ambassador-designate Henry V. Surto, sir.

Thank you, thank you. Maraming salamat po sa inyo.

Thank you.

Si Ambassador Henry V. Surto nakasama po natin for this interview.

And I hope that was actually our intention to pay tribute to a good man na maraming contributions po sa ating bansa.

And you heard it straight from someone who worked with him for a long time,

who actually was very close to him, especially dun sa mga moments na talagang big decisions had to be made.

Okay. Maraming maraming salamat po for joining us tonight.

And magkita kita po tayo uli sa darating na biyernes for another episode of Facts Verse.

Again, maraming salamat po sa inyo lahat and good evening.

Thank you very much.