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Yeah, so it was diplomatic in a sense too, right? As artistic as it was.

And I don't mean it in a bad way. I mean, I'm someone who believes in diplomacy even in the toughest and most difficult of times.

These were tough times for his family, for him, for the country and all.

Now, that's very important. So, I mean, I think that's one thing to keep in mind.

But, I mean, what about the relationship between Patern and other kind of Ilustrados?

With Juan Luna, with Isabel de los Reyes, other brilliant people also there that I don't think also are getting as much attention.

Because the weird thing about Philippines is it's always Bonifacio versus Rizal.

But, like, what? I mean, it's not, you know what I'm saying? I don't know how to put it nicely.

It's like, they're not even direct rivals or anything, right?

You know what I mean? Like, I just don't want to get into it, right?

It's an opposition that I found very problematic.

The framing is problematic because I don't think anyone ever considered those two as potential.

I mean, the real rival of Rizal intellectually was Isabel de los Reyes, right?

In terms of achievement, this is where I disagree kind of with Jorge and some of these folks.

I think Juan Luna was really brilliant and he was really an achiever.

I mean, he should have won the first prize, really. A little bit of racism played a role there.

He won awards that no other Ilustrados, from my understanding, won in their own respective fields.

So, like, what's going on here? What's going on here?

You know, I want to demystify also how we look at the Ilustrados.

I mean, some of them are really great minds.

Pilar, Rizal. But really, a lot of the Ilustrados were just regular folks.

But should we even count them as Ilustrados for that matter, right?

Because I know Rizal was complaining a lot about...

Atsaka sa impresiones, right? Also Luna and all, they were complaining about a lot of this.

We're very familiar with this, no? Kind of semi-rich kids or, you know, people from, let's say,

less cosmopolitan areas come here, see Europe, European women, and they were having to...

I think Alejandro, for instance, right? He wrote something like...

Reading it's like, okay, I see what was going on there in Madrid, you know what I'm saying?

Like too much mojito, maybe. All right, yeah, go ahead.

Yeah, I was just thinking about Rizal was complaining about the best thing that a lot of his compatriots were good at

was waking up at 12 noon and how they spent the night gambling and going out with women.

Yeah, and all that, yeah.

They could not hold an argument with the Spaniards because they're the inferiority complex.

But...

Complaints are true, right?

Yeah, I mean, these are the complaints you can still hear today, right? Like it makes sense, right?

Right. But then again, there were the standouts. There were the Rizals and the Lunas.

And the relationship of Pedro with a lot of them...

Well, Pedro kasi was a quirky character, di ba?

And he was there with three brothers.

Yung kabeshi ni Rizal was his brother Antonio.

Right.

And even Rizal would make little jokes about Pedro.

Pedro was the funny guy, medyo the oddball, pero kaibigan pa rin.

But they respected Pedro. They respected Pedro for his brains.

They respected Pedro for how much he loved the Philippines also.

His health also.

His health, yeah.

And he helped Luna financially, yeah. Studio and materials for work.

So he helped De Lojan.

So the Chinoy, Chinita helped De Lojan. That's good. I like that. I like those kind of stories.

That's good. That's good. I like that.

Thanks, by the way, for treating me in Bernabeu without really wanting it.

I'm not even a fan, may ganyan ka pa.

But okay, I really appreciate it. I appreciate it.

Now, obviously, I mean, as much as it's unfair also about just giving credit to one person,

you know where this question is going, right?

Obviously, Pedro Paterno also got reduced to a certain caricature, right?

Of the kind of a symbol of turncoatism. And this is thanks or no thanks to the works of certain scholars.

Now, obviously, Pedro Paterno was not a perfect person who was navigating a very difficult situation.

I suppose it's very hard psychologically from privilege and also there's revolutions and you have to pick sides.

You don't want to pick sides.

All of those difficulties that, surprise, surprise, today's ASEAN countries are facing between the US and China, right?

I mean, it's very similar.

Spain versus US, rising, falling powers, ipitsa gitna.

It's very much something that it's a theme of our era, right?

Now, first of all, like you as Paternos, how do you process that?

And, you know, this whole reduction and cartoonish portrayal of Paterno.

And what do you think, I mean, in what sense was Paterno a flawed character?

Because, of course, all of them were flawed in their own ways.

That's why for me, I suggest read A Question of Hero, right, by Nick Joaquin.

He precisely says A Question of Hero because all of them were flawed characters.

Bonifacio was super flawed, right?

Like one of the things that Nick Joaquin mentions is that he deliberately implicated so many other ilustrados.

And Antonio Luna got so badly tortured that it was not the same, even by Luna standards, right?

So no one talks about that in UP.

I mean, last time I checked, right, I got to only know those things when I read Nick Joaquin.

It's like, oh, I thought Bonifacios are like, I don't know, Le Miserable Hero or whatever.

But anyway, speaking of that, now let's go to the politics, which is where things get really, really tricky and difficult.

Even the discussion of that.

Like, can you tell us a little bit about that?

Like, in what ways he was flawed and in what ways do you think he was very unfairly reduced to that kind of, you know,

what unfortunately the colloquial understanding of Pedro Paterno is?

Well, honestly, I would rather not rather not go there.

No, I just feel that I think we should judge Pedro Paterno in his works.

Maybe there will be a historical reexamination of his role in history.

I think he was very misunderstood.

This is what you call academic revision, right?

So it's not revisionism a la denialism and all.

Yeah, I mean, one of the things we know is we're not going to name names, but we met some Spanish scholars,

Spanish scholars, you know, by happenstance, right, when we were visiting Rizal's monument.

And, you know, one of them said something very fantastic.

She said something like, yeah, how I wish we had enough scholarship, literally study of the works of all of these other illustrators,

especially Pedro Paterno, as we have, you know, in the case of Rizal, right?

And if I'm not mistaken, there are more efforts in that direction, right?

More scholarly examination.

And the good thing with Paterno is that, well, he was an erudite man and he wrote a lot of things, right?

So the good thing about him, he really wrote a lot of things.

So we can look at the evidence, right, for proper historical examination.

You totally don't want to say anything about it.

OK, now let's go to.

OK, never mind.

Now let's talk about something interesting.

OK, now let's talk about something interesting to lighten up the mood.

This is towards the end of our podcast.

I'm glad that we discussed a lot of important things or I discussed something more than things.

So how old are you again?

I mean, like, apparently it's not only with women.

No, but seriously, I mean, let's talk about something very different, but something as relevant, right?

I mean, it's important to be prolific in life and successful and all, maybe.

But probably it's not as important as self-care, right?

Self-compassion and health care.

And, you know, one thing that really amazed me is how conscious you are with your diet.

You almost have zero rice.

I love paella, but come on, I burned it very well.

You could see I would walk seven, eight thousand.

So I didn't feel as bad about eating paella.

There's just no way I can.

I mean, I know you are a very health, not conscious, but aware person.

And I was surprised how your chronological existence is really not matching your biological state of being.

I mean, knock on the wood, right?

Can you tell us a little bit about that?

So what's your skin care?

Don't say what's your age.

What's your skin care, bro?

I mean, what's going on?

What's your self-care routine?

Okay.

Anyway.

You should have shaved like me.

You should have shaved.

And then I'm sure people would be even more amazed by the gap between chronology and biological age.

Okay.

To put it out there, I'm 58 years old.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I would say maybe mid-40s, right?

For an Asian, right?

For an Asian, by the way.

Because I'm an Asian, I know.

Let's be honest.

Asians, generally, they age well, right?

So even for an Asian, I would say you're mid-40s, maybe?

But like, what?

What's going on there?

Okay.

Aside from having good genes, right?

What else?

Because my grandma also has Chinese genes, and I think that sometimes helps.

Not to mention, Filipino genes are great too.

But I'm just saying, Chinois tend to age very well, from what I understand, including people close to my heart.

Yeah, tell me a little bit about it.

Now talk more.

This is typical of our conversations.

It really goes everywhere.

But anyway, okay.

I follow a diet.

Actually, I wouldn't even call it a diet.

Since when?

Since when?

Since the year 2000.

So this is a two-decade long...

Wow, amazing.

Okay.

So how did it start?

How did you become health-conscious?

Is it because you realized, okay, I'm already in my 40s.

I mean, how was that working?

Was it because of that?

Like you're reaching your 40s, and you said, hey, maybe I have to get things together.

Or was it something you watched, something you read?

Is it someone you dated who made you more health-conscious?

Like, for instance, ako, I didn't use skin cream at all until I was 30, early 30s.

And an ex-partner of mine, she told me, hey, Richard, you travel a lot, and that's going to make your skin very dry.

Maybe you want to do something about it because you're not 20s anymore.

So that's really where I started.

So the beginning of that.

And then, of course, a previous partner of mine, she really was against smoking and all.

So I totally quit any kind of smoking whatsoever.

And as you know, we're very sober people, both of us.

So how did it start?

In your case, how did you become so self-compassionate?

Kasi parang alam ko uso lang yan, mga past 5 to 10 years lang.

It's a very millennial thing, this whole skin care, yoga, whatever, right?

It's a millennial and 1960s baby boomers thing.

I didn't see Generation X, your generation, as conscious about it.

But tell me about it.

Sorry, ang dami ako nang sinabi.

Well, it started the year 2000.

I just realized, hey, it's time to take care of myself.

And honestly, I don't put anything on my face.

I've never gone to a derma for skin, whatever you call it.

All I do is really diet.

Basically, diet and sleep.

So year 2000, I decided I'm going to go sugar-free.

So I have stopped eating sugar for 23 years.

I stopped eating simple carbs.

I stopped eating white rice, potatoes.

I stopped eating anything that causes inflammations in the body.

So anti-carcinogenic.

Exactly.

So yeah, basically it's that.

I avoid sugar.

I don't take soft drinks.

I also don't smoke.

And I make sure I get enough sleep at night.

I try to get 7-8 hours of sleep.

Basically, that's it.

Nothing else.

I don't do anything else.

Yeah, basically.

I think really what you...

Yes, it does.

Didn't you have a hard time?

What was the transition period?

Suddenly no white rice.

Suddenly no, you know, very strict.

Wala nang puya-puya masyado.

What was going on there?

Right.

Instead of white rice, I eat black rice.

Instead of regular wheat bread, I look for whole whole-grain bread.

I mean, there are substitutes out there that are expensive.

And for those that argue, if you go sugar-free, then you'll be eating sugar substitutes.

So I try to vary.

I try to...

Like what?

Stevia.

But stevia is a natural sweetener.

So I look for products with stevia.

But then again, you know, once in a while, when you're with good company and good friends,

I'll treat myself to paella and drink a mojito.

You know what I mean?

You indulge once in a while.

Yeah, yeah.

That's important because ayaw mo maging tigal.

I mean, what's the right word for that in Tagalog?

You don't want to starve yourself of little joys here and there, right?

But at least in terms of 6 out of 7 days or more like 29 days out of 30 days a month,

you stick to very strict diet.

Although your diet style is different because I was talking about intermittent fasting.

And I was telling about hormesis, which is if you fast, especially if you're just eating once a day,

the pressure you put on your body creates more resilience at the cellular level, right?

Mitochondrial level.

But in your case, you eat like an athlete, right?

Which is a lot of times, but little by little, right?

You're more like the athlete.

I do micro meals.

And I never eat too much at one point.

Sort of like how our ancestors were, the hunter-gatherers.

Yeah, exactly.

I try to avoid just little every day, every 3 hours, every 4 hours.

No big mega meal.

I know some people, I think you, Richard, you take only one or two meals a day.

Yeah, I do.

I want a brunch and then dinner should be very light.

I mean, if I had a chef, for example, I just want just soup at night, no?

And there are days when just one heavy brunch keeps me full the whole day.

If only not for migraine or other, you know, because I'm a journalist, right?

So our working schedule is a bit crazy.

If not, probably once a day I think should be enough.

So I sent you, for instance, works by David Sinclair, right?

Who's this new guru on anti-aging and all.

I mean, I have my misgivings and so I think vegan che.

Anyway, but he gets away with one meal a day and he's a very hyperproductive scientist, right?

Not to mention now an influencer.

So we have evidence of people who keep a very productive clarity of mind with just one meal a day.

Just one decent meal.

So my only regret, not necessarily regret, is that with that one meal, I'm a little bit self-indulgent.

So there's clearly rice there and a little bit here and there.

But if I keep the amount or like the frequency and the volume under control, I think my body takes care of it.

By the next day, I feel much lighter and all.

I mean, you could see it, especially when I'm in Europe.

I keep it very light.

Even you saw me, I ate a lot of paella and all, right?

But the next day you can see me, I cleared it out.

You could see it like so.

No, you shouldn't see it.

It's all right.

But you can say like my clothes still can fit and all, right?

I can still do the, you know, trippy sit and all.

So that means I'm giving my body enough time to process, even if I do excess and self-indulgence here and there.

So I'm psychologically happy in the sense that I enjoy the meals I want, but I only do it once a day.

That's it, right?

The second meal at most should be soup or something light.

So I was just suggesting maybe you want to check it, especially because of the hormesis.

When you push your body.

So speaking of hormesis and, you know, like this panic mode level that body gets when you're fasting,

you can also get it and you should get it also with intense exercise.

So my suggestion is sometimes, so for instance, I'm practicing right now both breathing and running fast.

So if I can keep my BP level below 160 or below, or at least at 160 consistently,

even if I'm running at 12 kilometer per hour speed, no?

So I start breathing at six to seven, at eight, I'll keep it up at one.

So I go from 120 to 160, but I try to keep it up there.

Even if, so I do half a kilometer of running, 12 kilometer.

So those are new things I'm trying right now, which I didn't do before,

because I used to breathe more from my mouth when it's high intensity.

So breathing from nose is very important because you're almost meditating, right?

So meditation, do you do meditation yoga, those things, breathing techniques?

Are you also working on that?

Or are you interested in working on those things?

Yeah, there's something.

To develop even more, yeah.

There's a lot of good things about it.

That's something I want to look into.

I like the, you sent me a video about the healthcare before,

and they were talking about telomere length.

Yeah, right.

That's very interesting.

That's one thing I believe in, and also antioxidants.

I try to also eat a lot of food with that.

So you don't do any supplements or anything like that?

You don't do any supplements?

No, not at all.

I don't do any supplements when I'm worried about pressure and liver.

But they say if you want to build some muscle and all really solid,

you might need, I don't know.

The jury's out on that.

Some people are more confident, some people are not.

But I'm glad that you keep a very fit overall posture and stature

with no supplements, and you're doing micro.

The thing is, I think the future of medicine and healthcare is really personalized.

So for each person, really different things work.

I did keto.

I did just meat for three weeks, no rice, anything for one month almost.

I lost 10 kilos.

That was fantastic, but I was a completely unhappy person.

So it's not sustainable.

It only makes sense if you're overweight and you want some radical solution.

But it's not something you can do for years.

But the intermittent one is really something I think you can sustain over time

if you cannot do the micro meal.

Because the thing with micro meal is it needs discipline, portioning.

You get what I'm saying?

I'm not saying your life is easy or easier,

but I'm saying maybe it's not as practical for a lot of people

who have a much more difficult time controlling their schedule.

If you're calling your boss every hour or so,

like, sir, I have to do my second micro meal.

I don't think it works.

Because you can do micro meal of unhealthy micro meals,

and I'm sure your micro meals are healthy micro meals.

No rice, no whatever, no sugar.

But do you think it's more affordable now to have a low-carb lifestyle?

Because, of course, the big argument is this.

Let's be honest.

Obesity is a problem among poorer communities in places like U.S., for instance.

Because if you want cheap food, $1, $2, go to McDonald's.

But it's also the unhealthiest, most horrible food.

If you want more vegan food, it tends to be more expensive

or more balanced diet or good quality meat.

But over the 20 years, it's more affordable or very affordable to have healthy food, right?

You know, I eat almost anything. I don't go out of my room.

You don't go out of your limousine, I get what you're saying.

It's really the quantity and the sequencing that makes sense.

That definitely makes sense.

What about exercise? Do you have a certain routine exercise, etc.?

Exercise is almost every day.

But, you know, it's just running, lifting weights once in a while.

But, you know, nothing extreme.

Exactly. Nothing like calisthenics.

Because for me, the advice is, especially once you're above 40,

you have to do muscle strengthening exercise.

It's good to avoid atrophy.

So some basic muscle exercise is very important.

I don't think people are prepared for this part of our discussions.

But see, there's so much to talk about, right?

There's so much to talk about.

This is so typical of our conversations, Richard.

It can go from politics to art to architecture.

Suddenly, it became healthcare in the end.

Archidaceous, archidaceous, right?

It goes all different directions.

It goes all over the place.

I was just amazed at how healthy and strong you've kept yourself.

Again, knock on the wood.

And I know this is not an easy thing.

I'm sure you've been through a lot in your life.

It was really the traumatic political situation that drove you there.

But are you planning to come back more often to the Philippines

once you have settled things down there or up there?

Yes, yes.

In fact, I will be back in Manila in June.

June, July.

Fantastic.

And what about being more permanently based here?

Do you want to do like,

if there's a bi-coastal in the U.S.,

are you going to do like six months here, six months there kind of thing?

Honestly, for me, Philippines is home.

I'm a proud Pinoy.

I have in my living room a Philippine flag right on top of me.

Outside of my apartment, there's a Philippine flag also.

So for me, Philippines is home.

I plan to go home very soon, maybe a year or two.

I'll be back already based in Manila.

Oh, right.

This is just a diversification strategy.

I mean, you're a businessman after all.

It makes perfect sense.

And speaking of diversification,

make sure you don't get scammed, James.

Read the knowledge, not name names.

All right.

Thank you very much, bro.

I wanted to say also, going abroad,

if you have the chance to go abroad,

it's very enlightening.

That's why I always think that there are OFWs.

They're like our modern-day Ilustrados.

You go abroad, you see best practices.

You see, you know, after you're sent abroad, you go home,

you tell your kids or maybe by the time your grandkids,

you tell them how in Singapore, there's no people stealing.

You go to Madrid, you go to Paris, and you say the transport system works

and you don't have to take two hours to go home from your work.

Right.

Well, not if you're living in LA and New York transport is not so bad.

I know.

You know what I'm saying is, you know,

when you live in a society where it's all right to pay taxes

because the money that you pay is not stolen.

It will come back to you in infrastructure, in good streets,

in healthcare, in good mass transit.

You know, these are things you see abroad.

And hopefully, our OFWs, you know, they bring it back to them.

Besides the money they send, they bring back these new ideas.

New ideas.

And influence the Philippines.

For me, I mean, every time I'm in, especially in Europe,

not as much in the U.S., no offense to the U.S.,

but especially in Europe, you know, first of all, my body clock is swak.

You could see me.

I always wake up on time.

I'm always early, 6, 7 a.m.

It's so not me, right? I'm like Batman, right?

There, suddenly, I'm, I don't know, Superman.

I don't know, whatever.

Yeah, but, you know, you understand like, wow,

there's so much more to life, right?

Having a quiet coffee in the morning, you know, in a quiet, nice place.

No?

Yeah, it's just, yes, there's so much more to life, right?

Than work and earning and paying the bills and having the latest cars

and latest phone and whatever.

You get what I'm saying?

It's almost philosophical to me.

It's existential to me.

Like, that's why I really need to be in Europe or in the Middle East

every year or so because it's really there, whether it's in Istanbul,

you know, whether it's in, you know, not the Dubai kind of Middle East,

like the more northern parts of Middle East where the climate is

four seasons.

And in Europe, that's really where I get to be myself, walk a lot,

walk 5 kilometers, 10 kilometers a day, indulge in the food,

eat here and there.

And the architecture is amazing.

I like the preservation of the old.

You know, I'm a person who loves the pyramids and the Persepolis and

the Parthenons.

And, you know, those are the things that really get me going.

And, you know, yeah, I really appreciate that,

the fact that it came so naturally to me.

I was not conscious.

I was just being myself.

And this time I'm living this certain lifestyle as if I'm always living

there.

So thank you for reminding us that it's also affordable to be there in

Madrid, just in case my Ilocano side says,

maybe two months a year I'll be there in Madrid or one month a year.

Right.

Especially if I want to go all in with the Spanish language, you know,

thank you so much, bro.

As I said, this is hopefully just the beginning of it.

God willing.

We'll have more of these discussions.

God willing more in person, this discussions.

I mean, I'm really hoping as we transition as hopefully get some

resources and support.

I love people really in the studio, interview them a lot.

Joe Rogan style.

I mean, that's really,

that's really the goal and hope that we have down the road, you know,

God willing.

So thank you so much.

Amigo for giving us your time.

I I'm sure many people appreciated your advice.

And as I said, maybe it's time for you to do your own vlogs,

really healthcare vlogs, you know, food vlogs.

Do you cook?

Are you, do you cook?

Well, I didn't get the.

Checking out.

That's it, bro.

That's it.

Exactly.

Okay.

Muchas gracias.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much.

I mean,

I mean, that was really, you know,

just like the one again,

I spoke it in Italian.

Yeah, really, bro.

I really appreciate it.

So I hope we'll have more of these.

And always a pleasure to talk with you, bro.

See, it's so, it's so naturally easy, right?

You don't have to do anything, right?

I mean, obviously I have my persona on,

let's say, you know, international news and all of that.

But you know, honestly, I don't know if today,

this is just about being honest about our points of view and engaging.

And also I hope you had a good experience the same way that we had a

great time with you, amigo.

I wanted to say, where can people follow you,

but it seems you still have to set up things.

So yeah.

Amigo,

Manolet Paterno for his stuff on skincare and all of that soon.

But I'm sure the next time we're going to talk,

God willing,

follow him, click, subscribe, click, subscribe.

You be the super vlogger there.

That's crazy, man.

But let's see.

Let's see what happens.

Thank you.

Thanks so much, man.

Have a good day.

You know me, I'm Aleman time, right?

It's just happened.

It became a little bit of Spaniel today because some adjustments,

but thank you so much.

And looking forward to more of this conversation.

Have a good, good day.

It looks like a beautiful day behind you with the Philippine flag and the

sun.

The sun raised there.

It's beautiful.

I hope you enjoy it, bro.

Talk to you soon.

Thank you.

Likewise.

Thank you.

Adios.

Hasta pronto.

Thank you.