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... There is no award of the Spratlys or Paracelso to China but China continues to give this disinformation. Now if you don't fact-check talagang maniniwala ka kasi they say it with a straight face.

... How can the People's Republic of China denounce it as illegal? How can they claim rights under a treaty that they even declared as illegal? At that time when it was going on they declared it as illegal kasi hindi sila nakaparticipate. Ngayon sinasabi nila in award sa amin yan. You see the inconsistency of all this. But lahat ito can be exposed as fake disinformation. All you have to do is fact-check."

Q. Pag-cite ng Potsdam declaration, Cairo declaration at San Francisco peace treaty, matagal na po ba nilang ginagamit yan sa propaganda machine nila about the South China Sea or fairly recent po?

... Matagal na sa China yan because under the Treaty of Taipei, binigay yan sa China, the Spratlys and Paracelso. Filipino ito writing that the Treaty of Taipei awarded the Spratlys and Paracelso.

Dalawang parties lang doon sa Treaty of Taipei, Japan and China, Republic of China. How can Japan award it na pumirman na siya renouncing? In 1951, Japan renounced all title and claim to the Spratlys and Paracelso.

In 1952, nagka-treaty ang Japan with Taiwan. Sinabi ng treaty, we recognize the San Francisco disposition of all these territories. So how can Japan now, how can they say that Japan awarded the Spratlys and the Paracelso to China?

One year before that, Japan already renounced all claims. In fact, the treaty itself, Treaty of Taipei, said we recognize the San Francisco treaty. Talagang they twist everything. If you don't fact-check, you will be misled.

Okay. Speaking of fact-checking, kasi isa sa mga elements ng effectiveness information, matagal na naman ginagawa ito in history. Ginawa ito ni Garbals. Ulit-ulit din, ulit-ulit din, and eventually it will become fact sa mata ng maraming tao.

Ang tanong ko po sa inyo, do you think this Chinese propaganda machine is actually effective and is it winning, especially at this time?

Ngayon, na-expose na sila. But before the arbitration, remember before the arbitration, sabi nila, we are an old civilization. So we own the South China Sea 2,000 years ago pa.

So when I saw articles in the US and Europe, sabi nila, China is an old civilization. Siguro totoo kanila yan since 2,000 years ago because they were not told the actual facts.

Maraming naniniwala at that time. I've been talking to them and they said China is an old civilization. But when we submitted all the documents to the arbitral tribunal,

sinabi ng arbitral tribunal, there is no basis. There is no historical basis for that. Talagang wala naman. At that 2,000 years ago, China didn't even care about the Spratlys or the Paracels.

Anong sa tingin niyo po yung effective ways to actually combat this disinformation coming from the Chinese propaganda machine at this time?

Well the effective way is fact-check and disseminate. Ngayon, if you talk to the Europeans and Americans, tatawa na yung nine-dash line because they understand.

So we've solved that problem. In fact, naihiyan na yung mga Chinese to keep on repeating the nine-dash line. So nag-invento na sila ng four-shots.

Yung four-shots nila ngayon, pareho din. It will not pass master ng own clause. So talagang wala. They're at a loss. Ngayon, they're claiming now that it's the Cairo Declaration,

it's the Potsdam Declaration, San Francisco Declaration, Treaty of Taipei. Wala naman. Pero may naluloko sila. Filipino writers just follow them hook, line and sinker.

Talagang nagugulong. Tapos yung mga Filipino writers pa, talagang ang tapang na tama raw ang China. They just copy the propaganda of China without fact-checking.

Kasi nakikita ko. Alam po yung mga articles ng China. Copy-paste yung mga Filipino. Kinaka-copy lang nila. Nakikita ko pareho yung galing sa Chinese press release.

Q. Mukhang naniniwala sila sa Chinese propaganda o baka part sila ng Chinese propaganda machine for some reason?

A. I think they've become part already kasi ayaw sila makinig. But it's our duty, not tayo. It's to win them over by argument. By saying here are the facts, now you decide.

E pag ayaw pa nila maniwala, they are a minority. Siyempre pag ayaw pa maniwala talaga despite all these facts, iba nang usapan nyo. That's beyond our persuasion already.

Sorry Justice, napakaganda nung sinasabi nyo. We win them over with the facts, with sound arguments. Pero kasi in this day and age of disinformation, parang baka sabi nung iba hindi yan sapat.

In some cases baka naib pa. Kasi kung talagang alam mong mali pero ipapakalit mo pa, baka iba na yung dahilan. Baka naman nagkakabayaran na. That's what I want to talk about kasi we have to do some reality check here.

There are troll farms in China, there are troll farms in Russia and in other places, even in the Philippines. Alam natin yan. That's why we have to fight disinformation with facts. We have to do research really.

Unfortunately, sila, they are paid so they do it regularly. They have all the time to do it tayo. We do it on our own because of love of country or we love the truth.

We succeeded already in convincing the Western world that China has no claim to the South China Sea. Nanalo na tayo dyan.

Q. Pagbibigyan ng platform ng ilang mga Pilipino, sometimes even sa media, I know this is a conversation that touches on press freedom. Pero sometimes dapat pag-usapan din. Is it worth it to provide platform for an obvious lie? Kayo po ano tingin niyo po yan?

That kind of propaganda can come from China, from another country and enter our country. So what's happening now is they have spokesmen here but they could easily broadcast that through the internet. So we have to face that.

Because in China, they have a firewall, the great firewall of China. So whatever I say, my YouTube lectures, my books, that's not available in China. Pero ang Chinese propaganda is available in the Philippines.

So dihado tayo dyan. But that is the nature of free speech. That's the nature of democracy. But it means that we have just to work harder. Mas dapat mas masipag tayo to counter it because sa kanila, they cannot read us, they cannot hear us, they cannot see us, their people.

So their people know only one line, their Chinese line. In fact, from grade school to college, they teach their students that China owned the South China Sea since 2,000 years ago. They really believe it. Sincerely, I've been talking to some of their students, talagang naniniwala sila. No, that's ours.

Because they have been taught only that story. Yan ang problema. Tayo, both sides and then we decide what is the truth. So we've been discussing this for a long time. How do we convince the Chinese people?

Well sabi ko, at that time, about 100 million, 80 million to 100 million Chinese go abroad as tourists. So sabi ko, we can catch them there. They can go to the internet when they're outside their country. Kasi hindi in their country, bawal. Wala silang access to YouTube, to Facebook.

So that is still our problem. But we can mitigate this. Katulad yan, Ateneo and UP agreed to establish Confucius Institute. So China can go to Ateneo and UP and disseminate information about the South China Sea, their narrative.

Pero tayo, we cannot do that. We don't have a counterpart Rizal Institute. So sabi ko, dapat yan reciprocal. If China wants a Confucius Institute in your school, your school should have the right to put up one in their school also. Para reciprocal.

But China one way palagi yan. They will take advantage of your liberal order but you cannot do the same in China.