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Q8. Nabanggit niyo ang importansya ng arbitral victory natin sa Permanent Court of Arbitration ng 2016. Parang literally na-imagine ko kayo yung may nagpapakalat ng fake news dyan. Ito yung decision, kami nanalo. Pero alam niyo honestly pag inoobserbahan ko yung nagiging diskurso sa social media, miski yung arbitral victory na yan parang tinitwist ng ilang mga kababayan natin to apparently favor China. What do you say to that?"

In fact sabi nga ng isang pro-China, alam mo there are even more Chinese than the Chinese. Ito ang mga pro-Chinese Filipino sa bayan natin, there are more Chinese than the Chinese.

They never said the tribunal did not invalidate the claim of China under the nine-dash line for maritime resources. Pero yung mga Pilipino na kumakampi sa China, sinasabi nila the nine-dash line, the arbitral tribunal did not invalidate the nine-dash line even as to the maritime claim.

So ito yung isang isang dispute yan, territorial dispute and maritime dispute. So sabi ko nga there are more Chinese than the Chinese, there are more pope-ish than the pope because yung China, ayaw nila, they don't want to say that kasi klaro naman talaga it was invalidated as far as the maritime dispute is concerned.

So yun ang nakakalungkot kasi sumosobra sila. There are even more Chinese than the Chinese.

Actually na-imagine ko itong portions ng ating interview, mapumunta na naman kung saan-saan websites, magiging meme na naman and then papalabasin kayo nagpapakalat ng fake news. Tapos siyempre pipitikin din ang inyong lingkod.

I was lying when I said that the arbitral award struck down the Chinese claim in the South China Sea. Kasi they quoted a portion of the arbitral award that sinabi ng tribunal we are not striking down the nine-dash line as far as the islands of the South China Sea,

as far as the territorial dispute, island is a territory, as far as territorial dispute. Tama naman because maritime dispute lang e.

So sinabi nila yun. It was not struck down. Hindi nila dini-differentiate. From the very beginning, dini-differentiate ko yan.

When I speak of the South China Sea, the claim of China in the South China Sea, yung maritime dispute yan.

Q1. Tama ba yung territorial dispute? Of course hindi naman siya isesettle sa permanent court of arbitration. Saan ba siya dinadala sa international court of justice?

All states are sovereign. So an international tribunal cannot acquire jurisdiction right away unless the sovereign state agrees. There must be a consent.

Ngayon dun sa UNCLOS, when you become a member of UNCLOS, you give your consent in advance. In case of any dispute in the future, you already agree in advance that you submit it to arbitration compulsory.

But that's only for the maritime dispute. Sa territorial dispute, walang ganyan. There is no treaty like that, except in the Pac of Bogota in South America,

nagkaroon sila ng treaty na kahit territorial dispute, we give our consent in advance. Pero outside of the Pac of Bogota in South America, wala.

So before we can sue China on the territorial dispute, normally sa ICJ yan, international court of justice, China must consent. China will never consent.

Okay. I get the basic difference. So kailangan talaga may consent and no contending parties. Kasi kaya ko naalala yung ICJ. Correct me if I'm wrong,

but there was a time, I think this was during the 70s, the Philippines was willing to bring the issue of Saba, the portion of Saba na pinag-aawayan ng Pilipinas at Malaysia sa ICJ and it was Malaysia that wasn't willing to bring the case there. Tama ko ba?

Tama yan. Both parties must submit it voluntarily to arbitration. Pero dito sa maritime dispute, nagkaroon ng UNCLOS. So if you ratify UNCLOS, you give your consent in advance to any future dispute. Walang ganyan sa territorial dispute.

Okay. Ito pala. Ano pa yung nakikita niyo pong implications nito? Kasi kanina binanggit niya early during our discussion na yung India nagagalit and binabasa ko rin yung mga articles na lumabas because of this 2023 edition of the Chinese map.

So talagang galit yung mga nasa India and we know na matagal na rin nagigirian yung China at India. When it comes to implications, what exactly is the game of China here? And isn't China courting more wrath coming from its neighbors by virtue of this?

Yes. Magdami magagalit dyan. Of course, ang tawag dyan cartographic aggression, cartographic invasion. That's flexing of muscle. Pero sa India, very tense yan kasi that's a land, that's a border dispute.

They're facing each other sa border. So that's a very sensitive issue. They've gone to war already in 1962 and recently nagsusuntukan sila kasi may rules sila na no bringing of firearms pag nagmi-meeting sila o nagkikita sila. So nagsusuntukan na lang sila but still the soldiers die.

So it's a very emotional issue there. These are nuclear armed countries. So it's very dangerous kung magkagera sila doon. Malaking area ang involved. Doon sa Arunachal Pradesh, it's almost like a fort of our land territory.

About 62,000 square kilometers involved. Malaking area ang pinag-aawayan.

Now ordinarily, kung may isang bansa na nagbabrandish ng, ito yung bagong mapa namin. So 10 dashes na yan. So yung maritime waters ng mga nakapaligid dyan, amin yun. Base dito sa mapa namin.

Ubra po ba ang response sa mga afektado mga bansa? Kung magkatawa na, nakakatawa yan. It's a big joke. The joke is on the person or the country brandishing that bogus map.

Pero ang tanong ko po, this is no ordinary country. This is the second biggest economy in the world. This is China. I mean can we afford to take that collective attitude toward that?

Hindi kasi you have to tie this. China doing it incrementally. In 2021, China enacted the new China Coast Guard Law. Nagkaroon silang bagong Coast Guard Law.

Sabi nila yung Coast Guard namin is authorized to use their weapons to fire on foreign ships that fish, that exploit, that explore within the nine-dash line.

So for the first time, nagkaroon silang batas at pinaalam nila sa buong mundo na yung Coast Guard nila may authority to fire their weapons on foreign ships.

A few weeks ago, they used that authority when they water cannoned our supply ships to Sierra Madre, BRP Sierra Madre. That's the implementation of their new Coast Guard Law.

Ngayon, linabas nila itong mapa. So talagang sunod-sunod itong ginagawa nila. They want to counter the effect of the arbitral award.

So dapat yan, we should oppose this. Kasi China is doing it incrementally. Pa konti-konti yan. Pero if you lose your patience, matatalo ka.

So you really have to fight them for every step of the way. So we oppose this. Kaya sabi ko nga, yung ginawa nila sa Union Shoal, we should bring that to the UN General Assembly.

Kasi that's a violation of the UN Charter.