Bothered by their conscience, two more witnesses have recanted their testimonies against former Sen. Leila De Lima in the third and last drug case filed against her by the Duterte administration. Will De Lima, a vocal critic of Duterte, be finally set free?

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Good evening guys. Welcome po sa ating episode ngayong gabi dito po sa ating Facts Verse Podcast.

... As I always tell you sa patuloy niyo pagsuporta dito sa programa natin. So para ngayong gabi kukumustahin natin ang kaso ni dating Sen. Leyla D. Lima especially in light of this new development.

... And dito sa kasong ito lumabas sa balita recently, dalawang testigo ang umatras na. Binabawi ang kanilang testimony at sinasabi nakukonsensya sila doon sa injustice na nangyari o patuloy na nangyayari dito kay Sen. Leyla D. Lima.

... Kasi alam niyo, since 2017 nakakulong na po siya. And dismissed na po ang dalawang kaso, isa na lang natitira. And of course from the very beginning sabi ng kanyang mga tagu-suporta, abogado and even yourself kung gusto niyo pumbusihin ang mga isinampang kaso against her, mukha po talagang politically motivated, talagang ginikipit lang.

... Ang tanong, kailan kaya siya makakalaya? At bakit hindi pa siya nakakalaya? E hindi naman presidente ang nagpakulong sa kanya dati. So yun ang pag-uusapan natin ngayong gabi. I'd like to welcome to our program, nagpa-unlock po, yung isa sa kanyang mga abogado para makausap natin ngayong gabi. I'd like to welcome to our program, abogado ni Sen. Leyla D. Lima, si Atty. Dino De Leon. Good evening Atty. And thank you for joining us sa Facts Verse.

Congratulations sa engagement and of course iyong masters. Maraming salamat. Pag-uusapan natin, ano ba nangyari? So may dalawang testigo na umatras na, tama ba?

Pero yung simula pa lang sabi niya na sa amin, I'm a volunteer lawyer, 6 years na. Imagine mo 6 years lang pinaglalaban ito. Right from the very start we know for a fact na manufactured ang evidence, ginipit yung mga witnesses at sila ay nasa nakakulong.

So it means pag nakakulong ka sa Christian, hawak ka ng executive. Ang sinasabi, kung maaalala mo si Peter, sinaksak pa before pinag-testify. 2 days after, yung pochillo pierced through his lungs. After that 2 days after, dinala sa camera para magsabi na involved daw si Sen. Leyla D. Lima sa drugs.

So the circumstances show that they are actually coerced witnesses. And in a lot of instances alam naman natin na hindi nga mapakakatiwalaan yung mga sinabi nila kasi ito ay convicted felons of the most heinous crimes.

So moral fiber nila questionable na but at the same time yung nag-author pa ng sinasabi naming frame up ay yung executive department na may hawak sa kanila.

So at yung hearing ng Monday, mag-layo at ipresenta dapat ng prosecution, we didn't know exactly what would be the tenor of his testimony. Meron niyang sinumpangsaray siya before pero alam mo naman marami silang dinadagdag siya at hindi mo alam kung extent ng bagong kasingalingan na sasabihin usually pagkaragay niya sa witness stand.

So already kami doon pero bago siya maipresenta sa witness stand noong umaga, kapag karating may inabot siya ng konti habang may nakatingin yung bardya, inabot niya kay Sen. Leyla Lima mismo yung sulat. Nagulat si Sen. Leyla Lima kaya itong pagbasa niya yung sulat na kumalat na ngayon na they are, and I quote, sinabi,

that we are recanting our testimonies against you. That we are recanting our testimonies for several reasons with the primordial objective to help you both to be free together with your fellow co-accused in the last case. We both plan to recant as early as 2018. Yan ang sinabi ng dalawa witnesses na ito noong maaga pa lamang.

Ang rason, for several reasons, pero ang in-identify nilang rason sa letter nila ay nababother sila ng konsensya. So malinaw. Nung panahon na yan Christian as you would understand as lawyers nakita namin yung panggiipit, di namin alam kung ito ay script, ito may pain sa amin kasi pag sinabi namin yun, dilabas namin, sabihin niya hindi totoo yan, gawa-gawa nila yung susunod na yan, yare.

So we have to be honest in this practice, at least yung mga lawyers, etc. We have to be candid and we have to be truthful. Kaya di naskos namin sa court. At buti na lang nung sinabi yun, medyo nag-approach the bench kami because it's an explosive incident. Ang nangyari kasi si Magliel nilagay muna sa witness stand, nag-oath na siya. Ganoon pa, to tell the truth and nothing but the truth sabi niya.

Sabi nila hindi namin alam ito. Ano ba yan? Ngayon lang makikita. Ano ba yan? Wala silang idea. Tinanong si Magliel, sulat mo ba talaga ito? Sabi ni Magliel, yung sulat po na yan gawa namin yan at yung pirmang makikita niya dyan, pirma ko. So kino-confirm niya under oath. So hindi nila confirm na lang Sarah pa lang na judge at under oath pa siya.

So in the authenticity of that particular letter, the prosecution instead withdrew him as a witness because they said he turned hostile against the cause of the prosecution. So ang aming stand doon, nag-recant na siya kasi ang sinabi niya, we are recanting.

So nakahanap sila ng opening bago mag-start yung hearing last Monday para isingit, iabot yung letter kay Sen. Leila Dilima mismo.

May pinabatayan sila pero nung pumasok siya na iabot niya sa courtroom.

At nag-move si Maglio na huwag na nilipas sa subliance so nilipas siya sa NBP. At sinabi rin ng Hon. Judge kanyang order na dapat isafekeep ng Bureau of Corrections kasama na yung isa pang allegedly pumirma kasi di pa na ko-confirm niya mismo which is Nolilo Atile.

Immediately transfer sa NBP. So as far as we're concerned, dapat ginawa ng NBP yan.

At transfer ba?

Hindi namin alam kasi we're not representing si NBP pero dapat sundod nila ang order ng court kasi hukuman na yung nagsabi. Guarantee their safety and transfer immediately from receipt of that order.

And received yan ng Bureau of Corrections Superintendent ng subliance on the day itself.

Q1. So ano epekto nitong official recantation dahil under oath ginawa sa mismo korte? So ano epekto nito sa huling naiiwang kaso against Sen. Leyla?

As to what would be the effect, of course that is left to the wise appreciation of the honorable judge and I wouldn't want to preempt the appreciation of that evidence. But as far as we're concerned, this severely affects the credibility of the case of the prosecution. But to begin with, the credibility is not there as far as we're concerned.

So it shouldn't have reached this far. Ang assessment ko talaga and that's the reason why I started volunteering for this case. As a young lawyer, mas mata-bata pa ako doon, nataon na ako dito sa defense team, kitang-kita ko talaga bakit naman sobrang manufacture ng evidence.

Bakit pinayagan na mag-witness itong mga ito na state? E hindi naman sila qualified to become state witnesses. They're not the least guilty kasi sila mismo nagsasabi na drug trader sila and this is a drug trading case.

Number two, they are convicted of crimes involving moral turpitude. Ang dami nilang bani-violate sa guidelines ng qualification of a state witness. So first, to begin with, hindi sila state witness.

Kung hindi sila state witness, why is it that they are not indicted as co-conspirators in the alleged drug trading? Di ba? Madi-dispense ka lang as co-conspirator if you're a state witness.

So yun, simula pa lang, questionable na why is it that they're not being charged when in fact they are admitting that they are the authors of the alleged drug trading.

So ano yung deal? Nain-strike ng prosecution with them and why is it that the prosecution is selective in their prosecution or should I say persecution? So that's first.

Second, sinabi ko na ito paulit-ulit. Iba kung maalala mo sa programa mo. Drug trading, pero drug case supposedly. Kaya na siya naging non-denable.

Di ba? Kaya ang ginasakay ni Laila Delima para make sure na makukulong siya to at least siya baka kapag-bail is drug case.

At ang nag-qualify lagi sa drug cases ay ang presensya ng drugs. Paano mo nalaman na ang trinade ay drugs kung wala naman yung gramo na droga?

Paano mo nalaman na hindi yun bribe money for example para mapasok yung mga kontrabando sa loob ng National Unified Prison?

And assuming na yun yung talagang transaksyon, available yun. Di ba? Kasi hindi naman yung drug trading.

So bakit ito drug trading case? Walang single gram of drugs. Laway lang ang puhunan. Puro incredible witnesses.

Noong nasinabi sa akin, lahat sila kino-confirmah, hindi nalang nakita na nag-drug trade si Laila Delima. Lahat sila. Walang nagsabi na nakita ko siya nag-drug trade at itutusan niya kami mag-drug trading.

Ang lagi nila sinasabi, kinuwento sa akin ni JB Sebastian. Hearsay na kaya.

So tandaan natin ang criminal case, proof beyond reasonable doubt. Magkakaroon ka ba ng reasonable doubt kung hearsay yan.

Pangatlo kung drug trading yan, kailangan may trail of money.

At walang trail of money, sinabi mismo ng Anti-Money Laundering Council na investigators, there is no single investigation linking Laila Delima to any improper flow of money.

Sabi mismo yan ng prosecution witnesses.

So yung tatlong elemento na yun, clear sa akin right from the very start which is why I volunteered as a lawyer for Laila Delima.

The only reason why it did is because it's political persecution at i-confirmah ito ng independent groups kasama dito ang United Nations Working Group on Arbitrary Detention.

Actually madali naman talagang basahin. Politically motivated ito.

Anyway, pero ano ba exactly ang testimonies dapat nitong Rodolfo Maglayo at Nonilo Arile?

Well si Maglayo di natin alam kasi ipapresenta pa lang siya.

Wala ba ang evidence? Di ba may evidence?

Well ang sinasabi niya, tinawag daw siya ni Sebastian para mag-drug trading.

And supposedly sinabi daw ni Sebastian na para yun sa kampanya ni Sen. Laila Delima.

Yung lagi, yun rin yung Nonilo Arile na assistant siya ni JB Sebastian at nag-drug trading sila.

And supposedly, kinuwento sa kanila, sinabi sa kanila para daw yun sa kampanya ni Sen. Laila Delima.

At alam mo, natatakot mo naman tayo ng senatorial campaign at ilang kampanya.

Ang pinag-uusapan pa P500,000, P500,000.

I mean kung gagawa ka naman ng kalokohan na ganyang ka-extent na para sa P500,000, P500,000,

baka mag-legal practice na lang si Laila Delima na isang bar top na siya.

Para ano ba yun, hindi pa yan acceptance fee lang.

She's a very well-known election lawyer. Mapakaliit na halagan yan.

At yun ang sinasabi nilang amounts. It's ridiculous.

At yung credibility pa lang noong fairytale, e hindi nakapaniwala.

Mayroon pa sila yung pagsayaw-sayaw daw.

Dito sa loob ng binibid na halata lang na it was a political persecution at the main goal was pahiyain si Laila Delima on national television.

Q1. Tama rin ba yun sa balita na nabanggit ng dalawa sa sulot nila na mayroon pang lima na balak umatras?

Mayroon pa raw lima. Sinubukan namin na pangalanan niya sana yung lima on the spot.

Because we would have wanted the honorable court to issue also an order for the viewport to protect them.

Pero sabi ni Maglayo, hindi pa raw niya pwede pangalanan.

Kasi baka yung safety lang na ma-jeopardize at hindi rin siya authorized.

So we didn't want to preempt it. Pero I confirmed na sabi niya there are at least five, at least five more witnesses.

Q1. In open court niya sinabi?

In open court. Confirmed niya yan kasi hiningi namin yung order supposedly na pangalanan niya.

Sabi niya yes I confirmed but he cannot name them.

Q1. Nabanggit ba niya sa korte kung bakit siya umatras? Nagbigay ba siya ng detalye?

Ang sinabi niya, naku-consensya siya, hindi raw totoo.

Tapos sinabi niya, ito pala ang kwento niya. Ganda eh ng kwento niya.

Sabi niya, hindi naman ako VIP. Hindi naman ako VIP.

Dinawit ako sa kasong ito para magsalita. Ngayon VIP na ako. Ngayon pinatapon na ako kung saan saan.

Ngayon grabe na yung treatment sa akin just because.

So dati lang ordinary inmate lang daw siya at sinamon daw siya to become a witness.

And then galito na yung buhay niya all of a sudden. That's one reason.

But the more important reason that he cited is of course naku-consensya.

Alam mo may edad na rin yan ha? Retired na yan. Kumbaga 60 plus years old na yan.

And eventually sana hindi naman lahat ng taong tumatantay na mabothered na conscious.

Crystal clear yan sa political circumstances at sa Pilipinas.

There are people who are also bothered by their conscious especially if they know that an innocent person is actually rotting in jail.

And the only reason was she was doing her job as a Philippine senator properly.

But sabi nga, diba sa balita rin, he had wanted to actually retract as early as 2018.

Pero why did it take him this long para makaharap ng karaan?

Ang sabi niya, there was no difficulty of arrangement. Of course they were well guarded.

Binabantayan sila, tinatakot sila, nangangambo sila sa safety nila.

Anim na to diba? Anim na yung nag-recount. If you can recall, si JB Sebastian.

Ang una yung sinabi, tinakot siya at ang ganibang buhay niya at ang pamilya niya.

Sinabi yan ni JB Sebastian.

Sorry, hindi si JB Sebastian, sino si Kerwin Espinosa.

Pangalawa, sinabi yan ni Adorko.

Wala rin kasatuhanan lahat ng pinagsasabi niya kay Laila Delima dun sa kaso ni Espinosa.

Sinabi yan ni Rolly Dayan na pinilit rin siya.

At sinabi yan ang star witness mismo ng prosecution sa Criminal Case 165.

Si Rafael Ragos na tinakot siya.

At ang nangtapot mismo sa kanya at ang nanggipit mismo sa kanya is no less than Vitaliano Aguirre

of the Department of Justice, the Secretary of Justice.

Nakakasuhan siya, siguro papakulong siya, tinakot siya at ang kanyang pamilya.

So the circumstances as to why they cannot recount even if they wanted to as early as 2018

is because the circumstances are not yet ripe.

Kung hindi, tatakotin sila, mga nganib sila lalo.

Lalong-lalo ng 2018, kung maalala mo Christian, peak yan ng kapangyarihan noong nakaraang rehimen.

Grabe yan. Lahat, naalala ko, nangangapan niya yung 8 Diretso noon,

hindi nga kami makapasok sa kahit anong LGU, kahit nakaibigan ng LGU,

sa takot nila na babalikan sila ng mga Duterte.

Kasi the last regime is well-known not only when it comes to a lot of deaths, na 30,000,

the most number of lawyers so far, journalists being killed,

but are also known to press false charges.

Diba nakita natin yung sedition charges na finance ng 8 Diretso kay Vice President Lerebredo,

members of the bench, members of the opposition.

Nakita natin na tinanggal si CJ Sereno ng isang unconstitutional way of impeachment.

Pinakulong si Laila de Lima, pinatahimik kahit na sila sister Mary Jane Fox.

Tapos nire-rentag lahat na nagsasalita.

The previous regime is well-known in terms of not only for killing but also in silencing dissenters.

Tapos nire-rentag lahat na nagsasalita.

Tapos nire-rentag lahat na nagsasalita.

Of course hindi niya na-affirm. Yung mga pinagsasabi niya sa kanyang affidavits that's first.

At alam mo sa totoo lang may mga reports na, and ang theory ko lang to,

lang naman to may theory nito na may chance na baka mag-re-recapt na rin yan.

Kaya nang sabi ng isang witness mismo dito sa criminal case 167,

ano na nangyari kay JB Sebastian?

Ayun po, kinovid-covid na.

Yun ang term niya, kinovid-covid na.

So mysterious ang pagkamakainig si JB Sebastian.

All of a sudden, we don't know if it's connected with this case but my hunch is it possibly may be connected with this case.

Okay. So far, pakibalikan niya para maalala ng mga nanonood at nakikinig.

So tatlo yung kasong sinampa under the previous administration against Sen. Delima.

Ano nangyari dun sa dalawa and then ano yung status ng third remaining case against her?

So sa criminal case 166, yun yung unang-unang na dismiss.

Ang pare-pareho ang charges dito lahat.

Drug trading, iba-iba lang yung indicative time.

At meron lang silang iba-ibang witness na nagsasabi.

Nag-trading kami ng drugs noong 2014, 2015, 2016.

Iba-iba lang yung indicative time.

Kaya halos pare-pareho rin yung siguro 80-90% of their witnesses in both cases pare-pareho.

Criminal case 166, na-dismiss kagad kasi wala ni isa doon sa mga manufactured evidence na nagsabi.

Nakita ko si Laila Delima, nakausap ko si Laila Delima, narinig ko siya na nag-utos.

Sa criminal case 165, so na-dismiss yun on account of our demure to evidence.

Ibig sabihin kami ng demure to evidence is it's akin to a motion to dismiss on the ground of lack of evidence.

Ibig sabihin kahit hindi kami mag-presenta ng ebidensya dahilan sa hindi nila na-prove beyond reasonable doubt yung guilt ni Laila Delima, kailangan ma-dismiss na yun.

Hindi na namin kailangan mag-presenta ng ebidensya.

Pwede ka man nagdagaan yun in layman's term? Walang kwente ebidensya.

Walang kwente ebidensya. 166 wala. Tapos dismiss.

So 165, iisa lang yung presiding judge ng mga oras na yan.

So binigay niya yung isa pero yung isa hindi niya binigay.

Ang sinabi niya is meron ditong witness.

Ang witness dito si Rafael Ragos. At ang testimonyo ni Rafael Ragos, nagpunta siya sa...

Ito yung testimonyo ni Rafael Ragos ha. Pakinggan mo mabuti Christian.

Nagising ako, dating NBI deputy director ko, nagising ako isang araw sa aking Bucor chief headquarters, OIC headquarters.

So dapat yun. Ibig sabihin secured yun. Di ba?

Ando siya sa loob ng Bucor. Meron nalang bag ng pera, P500,000 if I'm not mistaken.

Doon sa tabi ko. At biglang may nag-text sa akin na hindi ko kilala kung sinong boses.

At tumawag. At sinabi, dalin mo yung pera kay Laila de Lima.

So ginawang messenger at ginawang bagman yung Bucor chief,

ng hindi niya kilalang tao, dating assistant director ng NBI.

At pumunta, naglakad kay Laila de Lima sa puntang bahay niya, binigay yung pera.

So binigay yung pera. Ganoon lang.

At sinabi niya, binigay ko categorically. Tapos yung pera na yun hindi naman sinabi sa drug trading,

pinagpatsya-patsya na lang na dahil na-prove na laganap ang drug trading sa Bilibid and therefore drug money daw yun.

So yun. Ang sabi ng Honorable Court noong oras na yun, kasi may categorical testimony na may inabot na pera kay Laila de Lima.

Which is supposedly not a drug trading case but that's another question altogether.

Biglang, magpapresenta na kami ng ebidensya, bumalik na si Ragos.

Ang sinabi ni Ragos, hindi totoo lahat yan. Umiyak pa siya sa National TV if you would remember.

Nag-sosorry kay Laila de Lima. Sinabi, tinakot siya, tinakot ang anyang pamilya, at hindi totoo lahat ng sinabi niya.

Kaya nag-refile kami ng motion to dismiss noong revival ng Demurito Evidence.

At dinismiss rin ng porte yun na bago na yung judge at sinabi, may reasonable doubt. Very clear na may reasonable doubt kasi kahit yung star witness din nyo nag-recount.

That's Criminal Case 165.

Ang isip na Christian sa aming mga abugado ng Criminal Case, pagka na-dismiss na, hindi yan maa-appeal because double jeopardy yan.

In favor of the accused dapat yan.

Correct. In favor of the accused, hindi dapat inaabalang isang presumed innocent person kung binigyan ng Estado ng chance at with all its resources dapat naproduce niya yung ebidensya.

So tapos, dismiss. Aba, sinertionary pa ng Office of the Solicitor General at pending pa ngayon.

Yung kami nagtataka yan, anong ground nito? Very clear that there's reasonable doubt and the circumstances are present.

So nakakadismaya yung move na yan. But we submit it to the Honorable Court and that is pending. But that is the story behind that. Pero gusto ko sabihin nakakadismaya yan.

Unusual and basic. Going against all the basic principles in constitutional law and criminal law para lang ituloy yung kaso labad kay Laila Delima using, parang sayang resources, taxpayers money dito na alam naman itong most expensive and biggest frame up in Philippine history.

So 165, dismiss pero may pending certiorary. Ang Office of the Solicitor General.

The third one is criminal case 167, almost the same allegations and accusations against Laila Delima. Iba lang yung material dates. May hunting ibang witnesses pero halos in-adopt nila. Siguro sobrang daming witnesses from criminal cases 165 and 166.

And then may hunting witnesses. Ang huli dapat nilang witness was si Maglayo na bumaliktad. Ipipresentan na siya sa witness stand. So ano nangyari doon? The prosecution was constrained to rest their case and sinabit na siya for formal offer of evidence.

Magdedemoter ba kayo? Or magpe-present yung evidence?

Ibig sabihin nun sa isang information, kaya ito ako sasunod sa iyo. Sinabi 2015 to 2016 ito. E bakit nagpoproduce ka ng ebidensya allegedly na nangyari 2014 or 2015. Ina-dismiss na nga yun.

So marami silang in-offer ebidensya talking about drug trading in 2014 and 2015. So irrelevant dun sa in-court patangro-allegation sa information.

Pangalawa, ang marami rin doon, he'll say, sinabi sa akin ni JB Sebastian, napatay na rin naman, wala mag-confirm. So mag-check muna namin yung formal offer of evidence para makapag-object.

And obviously of course we will consider filing demurer to evidence because again, based on our assessment, yung mga ebidensya nila dito wala naman nagpapakita ng drug trading.

Para mas maintindihan ng mga nanonood sa atin, demurer ibig sabihin walang kwentang ebidensya ipin-resent as far as you are concerned ng prosecution. You don't need to bother to actually present your own evidence para i-contradict yan.

Nakakalungkot lang ang haba ng mga legal process, siyempre na judges na ang na-involve dito. Took 7 years for them and they were able to deprive the Filipino people of the service of a fit and brave senator, principled senator who could have fought for them in the Philippine Senate.

Which is why even if ma-dismiss lahat ng kaso, vindicate sila na-deliver na totoo inosente siya, successful sila sa pagpapatahimik ng isang principled voice in the Senate which is their very goal on why they filed these charges to begin with. Yan ang nakakalungkot yan Christian.

Q1. Pero under normal circumstances, sa tingin mo dapat ma-release na and how soon? Kasi ang dami na nag-atrasan, total of 6 years.

Ito na sa Filipino case 167, bago nag-inhibit yung dating presiding judge na kapatid pala ng abogado ng isang nag-testify labang kay Laila Delima, which is why mayroong final na administrative case sa kanya, denied niya yung petition for bail ni Laila Delima.

So ngayon nakasalang yan sa motion for reconsideration and we're hoping, praying that there will be an opportunity for Laila Delima to spend Christmas outside of prison for the first time after the last 7 days.

Q2. Etong naka-appeal na denial na motion for bail, this is for case number 3?

Yes. Case number 3, the only one that is pending. So may pag-asa at kami nananalangin na sana naman magpakita ng totoong justisya at makalaya na yung isang inosenteng tao at makapagpaskuman lang. Anyway, bail pa rin yan.

So may pag-asal niya ang mismo abogado ng isa sa mga main accusers ni Laila Delima, nilang umali. So medyo malala na kapatid mo pala yung abogado na nag-assist pa kay Ronnie Dayan nung nag-testify siya sa house.

So you can imagine. Si Ronnie Dayan hindi niya ma-recall at merify niya. Oo nga, siya nga yan kapatid niya. Hindi naman niya alam na related sa presiding judge.

Q2. Dapat din disclose sa presiding judge?

Correct. Sinuplay by the way yung lawyer ng house nilang umali. So kapatid pala ni Judge Beneventura. Ito yung sinasabi natin na you should have known, you should have come clean and it was really rather disappointing.

Q2. Parang malabong paniwalaan na hindi mo alam dahil kapatid mo?

Malabong hindi mo alam, tsaka it just tarnishes the reputation of the judiciary. Hindi ako naniniwala hindi mo alam. You ought to have known because there is a higher degree of diligence required of you as a presiding judge so as not to tarnish the good reputation of the judiciary.

She's been in jail since Feb 2017. So more than 6 years na. Magpipitong taon na siyang nakakulong.

Ang isang akusado, di ba may karapatan ng bawat akusado to speedy trial? Hindi niya pa pwedeng gamitin yan? Teka magsis 7 years na nakakulong itong ali. Parang na-deny ating basic right na yan sa speedy trial.

Denied talaga sa aming paranaw. Denied talaga yan. Kaya political persecution. Innocente si Lylat Lima until now. No lawyer worth his salt. Even the prosecution knows that she's considered innocent until this point in time. Kahit prosecution, kahit si Rodrigo Duterte kung sasarisohin niya pag i-abogado niya, he knows for a fact that Lylat Lima is considered innocent at this point in time.

So we believe that there is a violation of the right to speedy trial kahit siyam na judges na inhibit dito. So as far as we are concerned, of course there is a violation and that is the reason why at least dito sa bagong judge, sulun-sulun na rin yung ginawa niyang hearing in the past.

At ngayon nga, ni-resolve din, in-adopt na rin ang mga witnesses para mawawasan ang trial dates. At ngayon nga finally submitted na siya for formal offer of evidence.

So may file ng petition for bail dito sa bagong judge?

May motion for reconsideration kami dyan.

Yun na yun?

Yun na yun. Yun yung parang sinasabi namin na parang kami nag-refresh ng petition for bail.

Under this new judge?

Yes.

Eh kasi nga, so technically medyo bumibilis ngayon as it should under the new judge?

Yes. Bumibilis at at the very least makikita rin na there was an effort. Kasi binigyan rin siya ng deadline ng SC na tapusin niya yung case as soon as possible. Binigyan rin siya ng categorical timeframe. So that was very clear as well in the pronouncement of the SC.

So ngayon pwede palang madiliin ng SC. Hindi ba yan nangyari during the past 6 years under the previous administration?

Yes. Dito sa court na ito may 1 year na walang presiding judge. Walang tumatanggap. It is unfortunate that a lot of people who should be watching over our institutions allowed this to happen. That is unfortunate. But we still have the chance to rectify it and hopefully the injustice will not continue.

Okay sige. Sana nga matigil na itong injustice na nangyayari kay former Sen. Leila de Lima. In the meantime maraming maraming salamat si Atty. Dino de Leon for joining us dito sa Facts Verse. Maraming maraming salamat po.

Thank you Christian.

Atty. Dino de Leon, isa po sa mga abogado ni Sen. Leila de Lima. Alam niyo po bakit natin binabalikan itong issue na ito.

Sundan niyo yung issue. Tanggalin niyo muna yung kulay politika. Imaginin niyo hindi siya si de Lima. An ordinary person. O kaya yung paborito niyong politiko. Ilagay niyo sa kanya kalagayan.

Naralan niyo po yung kaso ng mga isinampas sa kanya. And then in development especially more recently. Tingnan niyo kayo mag-judge. Hindi ba ito political persecution? Diba?

Kasi imaginin niyo po ano. Can you imagine being in jail for more than 6 years for something that based on supposed evidence presented. Walang kakwenta kwenta yung kaso.

Di ba kawawa naman? Isang araw, dalawang araw, tatlong araw. Ito more than 6 years ka nakapiit.

You don't have to be a fan as I always say of Sen. Leila de Lima. You don't have to be a supporter. Just look at the facts of the case.

And tama tayo, we're supposedly given by God with certain faculties for us to determine or distinguish between right and wrong. So malalaman niyo naman kung sini nasa tama at kung sini nasa mali.

Sana lang pagdating ng araw talaga, sana sooner than later, talagang makuha niya ang hostisya at mapanagot po yung mga naglagay sa kanya sa ganyang sitwasyon.

Very very unfairly. Okay?

Hay, ang bigat ang pinag-usapan natin ngayon. Pero we have to talk about it.

In the meantime, shoutout kay Chad Malyari. Nag-message ka kanina. So shoutout kay Chad.

And ito si Pong. Sumisigap ang dibdib ko pag sumasagi sa isip ko ang pagkakakulong kay Sen. Leila de Lima.

Sabi ni iba sa inyo, yung nagpakulong sa kanya, yung dapat pumalit sa kanya sa piitan.

Alam niyo po dapat ganyan dapat ang attitude ng mga Pilipino. We should guard against any injustice kahit kanina man siya nangyari.

Kahit kanina man siya nangyari.

Tapos wala pa naman kaso against her. So di ba mali rin yan technically. So hindi rin tama ang ginawa na yan.

So kahit si Arroyo yan.

Ngayon, hindi ibig sabihin na porka may ganon nangyari, dapat mangyari din sa ibang mga politiko.

Kasi it won't end. So dapat sinusunod dun yung rule of law.

So yun po dapat yung tinututukan natin dito. Yung huwag i-weaponize yung batas para manggipit.

Di ba? Laws are supposed to promote justice, not injustice.

So if in this case the law is being used to promote injustice, what kind of law are we talking about?

Pasensya na po, napapa-English tayo. Kasi medyo nabubulay tayo pag tatagalog. Because you know, we're used to speaking in English. Joke lang. Nakakamiss lang minsan mag-English.

Anyway, so inga po. Sanang tatandaan natin lagi. Kahit kanina man mangyari.

Kaya miski yung mga nagbibindang kay dating Pangulong Rodrigo Duterte na siya yung pasimuno ng drug war, magmukhang obvious naman, siya mismo nagsasabi, sarili niyang bibig.

Kung kakasauhan yan, he would also be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law.

That's the same due process that should be accorded to him.

Yan po kasi nagpapantay-pantay sa atin. Kaya po tayo pantay-pantay supposedly. Dapat po sa mata ng batas, mayaman ka, mahirap, may kaya o wala. Pantay-pantay tayo dapat sa mata ng batas.

Inga po eh. Kaya po diba yung Lady Justice merong pering sa kanyang mga mata.

Pero in reality tulad ng mga napapanood niyo siguro sa mga korea novella, sa mga telenovela, hindi lagi nangyayari yun.

Lagi nakakaharap ng paraan yung mga nanggigipit para gamitin yung mismong batas para gipitin yung mga kalaban sa politika, yung mga ibang tao.

And this has to stop really. And nakakatismaya na po. Sana po kayo patuloy rin po kayong tumutok sa mga kanyang pagkakataon para ambag na rin natin sa lipunan.

May nagmamagaling sabi sa akin, tanga magkaibay yung case ni Arroyo tsaka Delima. Sinabi ko bang pareho?

I can talk about the case of that against Arroyo if you want. Baka mapag-google ka. Alam ko yun because I covered that eh.

May nagmamagaling itong isang troll eh. Ibaban natin kasi wala tayo sa mood para pagbigay yung mga tanga na troll.

Pinagtanggol ko na yung phone niya, si Arroyo. Galit pa rin. Di ba naman bobo yun?

Dapat nagbabao ng konting utak. Di pwedeng iniiwan yan. Di pwedeng nanonood ka, troll ka pero yung utak mo takabakasyon. Huwag ganoon.

Sige, basta ganoon. Dapat yung utak gising pag nanonood at nakikinig. Huwag dapat pupungas-pungas yung utak.

Kung baka sa computer magbago ng mas maraming hard drive.

Sige, maraming salamat sa inyo. Kita kita po tayo bukas. Bukas naman ang pag-uusapan natin. Alam nyo kung ano.

Di ba may pahayag si dati pangulong Rodrigo Tuterte. Parang walang opposition ngayon.

Okay, yan ang pag-uusapan natin bukas. Walang opposition ngayon. Patiraw sa media.

Di ba nung panahon niya, ginipit din niya yung opposition. Halos binura niya. Ngayon hinahanap niya yung opposition.

Ayos. Okay. Sige, magkita kita po tayo bukas. Maganda yung episode natin tomorrow promise. Subaybayan nyo po yan.

Okay, maraming maraming salamat po sa inyo. Ako po si Christian Esguerra.

And sa Team Replay, maraming salamat sa inyo. Sana nag-enjoy po kayo dito sa ating programa. Magandang gabi po.

Pag-uusapan natin ang pag-uusapan natin.