00:49.5
There's a lot to discuss for today, and I think it's very timely to have this kind of discussions.
00:54.9
Now, of course, you and I have had engagement.
00:58.9
Throughout the years, not as direct as today, but I think you also use the term Duterte-garks.
01:05.1
So both of us thought about it independently. It's just that I came ahead, so being credit grabber, I trolled you on that.
01:12.0
But all respect, all respect. I really like the contributions of the Ebon Foundation to economic discussions in the Philippines.
01:19.0
Now, let's first start, Sunny. Who is Sunny Africa? I mean, Tito Boy Abundaway.
01:26.2
Hey, like, who is Sunny Africa?
01:28.8
Who do you love the most in life?
01:30.5
But more importantly, what's the Ebon Foundation? And what do you do?
01:34.7
Before we discuss Marcos, economic, food inflation, and all of that.
01:38.7
Before we go there, for the purpose of our audience, especially younger audience, Sunny Africa, a short introduction, maybe.
01:52.5
I'm not losing you, but...
01:54.1
Yes, please go ahead. No, no. We got it. Yeah, please go ahead. Yeah.
01:58.8
Sunny. Yeah, yeah.
02:01.7
Ebon, talking about Marcos economics, Ebon was set up in 1978 during this, our first episode of Really Bad Marcos Economics.
02:11.2
It was set up, very straightforward objective, bring economics down to the people.
02:17.6
Economics is too important to be left to economists, especially it's too important to be left to our politicians.
02:22.5
So from the very start in 1978, Ebon was set up to try and explain economic issues.
02:28.8
To regular people, so they can engage.
02:31.3
So whether it's workers, in trade unions, farmers in peasant organizations, urban poor, doing their demolition struggles, all of that.
02:40.2
We, Ebon did feel that economics had to be explained as something that bituki isyo talaga siya.
02:47.3
Beyond the short term, sana even the long term.
02:50.0
So Ebon has been there for 45 years.
02:53.0
Middle age, for those who believe in numerology.
02:55.8
Ebon is 45 years old.
02:57.7
And then we did a quick...
02:58.8
Check of the average age of the staff, also 45.
03:02.5
Eh, coterminous ba yan? Sorry, Sunny.
03:05.0
Sorry, Sunny. Coterminous ba yan? I don't wanna ask age, but it's like...
03:15.0
Hindi naman yata.
03:16.0
Hindi naman yata, okay.
03:17.0
As long as people are, you know, able, willing to do, you know, keep up the fight amid all the difficulties, we're still around.
03:23.3
Also inviting young progressive economists who want to join Ebon, just, you know, knock on their door.
03:28.7
Just, you know, knock on their door.
03:29.8
We'll sort something out.
03:30.8
We can do some...
03:31.8
We can work together.
03:32.8
Sunny, a little bit about yourself.
03:34.8
Of course, your background in development studies, London School of Economics, if I'm not mistaken.
03:41.8
Also, you know, how did you come about in terms of your research and advocacy in the field of development economics or development studies?
03:56.8
I think that's been...
03:57.8
I think that's been...
04:04.8
I had a nice happy childhood.
04:05.8
Had a nice happy high school life.
04:08.8
Also had a nice happy oblivious college life.
04:12.8
But I was in London at the time, in LSE.
04:14.8
And what really struck home for me that time was...
04:15.8
And what really struck home for me that time was...
04:17.8
That was at a time that in the mid 1990s
04:20.8
That was at a time that in the mid 1990s
04:21.8
that was at a time that in the mid 1990s
04:24.8
It just struck home to me one time after a, you know, nice university night of forests.
04:26.8
It just struck home to me one time after a, you know, nice university night of forests.
04:27.8
university night of partying.
04:29.7
A Filipina, about 3 in the morning
04:32.9
party wound down,
04:36.3
she knocked on the door
04:37.4
with one maleta, said,
04:40.0
gonna run away from my employer
04:41.7
but he can't tell I'm running away because she
04:43.7
took my passport. Asked me to keep
04:45.8
the maleta until she'd run away.
04:50.0
she went back up to
04:51.1
her employer, was a Middle Eastern employer.
04:55.0
you don't think the aftermath of a party,
04:57.5
you have a buzz. And for that to happen,
05:00.0
just stuck home, it's kind of weird.
05:02.1
I mean, here I am, studying
05:03.7
abroad, having a fairly
05:05.8
comfortable life, a Filipino,
05:08.5
and then another Filipina
05:09.6
in the exact same building I'm in,
05:11.8
completely different circumstances.
05:13.2
It was that moment of desperation.
05:15.2
It struck home. I was just doing
05:17.7
philosophy moments at the time.
05:21.4
did my master's in development studies.
05:25.7
worked for a year in NEDA,
05:28.8
I'm not gonna say corrupt,
05:31.3
saw how challenging working in the government
05:33.8
was for economic development.
05:35.6
Ran away back to the academy for a year,
05:39.8
doctorate. After two years,
05:43.7
why am I studying in London
05:45.9
when the battle is in the Philippines?
05:48.4
So I interrupted my doctorate,
05:50.4
started NGO work,
05:51.5
and I've been here ever since.
05:54.0
So, Sonny, you're a recovering
05:55.6
Konyo in that sense, right?
05:57.7
And then, I mean, just to say this,
06:00.7
I'm saying this with complete
06:03.7
self-awareness, just to be clear about it, right?
06:06.0
You can bash my Konyo Tagalog and all,
06:07.9
but I think you're more legit Konyo.
06:09.3
Ako, probinsya ng Konyo lang ako
06:11.1
from Baguio. No, but, Sonny,
06:13.6
your story is actually as unique
06:15.7
and exceptional as it is.
06:19.8
with a lot of people. I mean, people like
06:21.4
Walden Belio, a mentor of mine,
06:23.7
also came from privilege, right?
06:25.8
Went to Princeton University, went to United States.
06:28.5
Also, of course, my
06:29.5
de facto co-host, Ronald Llamas,
06:31.8
also came from quite a comfortable background.
06:34.2
And then he saw the reality of Smoky
06:35.8
Mountain, etc., na tauhan.
06:37.8
In fact, our own hero, Rizal, right?
06:39.8
Like, he had a comfortable life in Calamba
06:41.6
until his own family ran into
06:47.1
in the Philippines. So, I think your
06:49.6
story, in many ways,
06:53.7
middle-class or upper-class
06:56.0
Filipino that was
06:57.5
essentially shaken out of their stupor,
07:00.2
right? And then dedicates the rest
07:02.0
of their life. So, I'm not trying to downplay
07:03.8
the uniqueness of your story, but
07:05.3
it's also very instructive because we have a lot
07:07.9
of people like that. I mean, I don't want to call it
07:10.1
noble oblige, right? But there's
07:11.8
a certain degree of noble oblige, perhaps, there.
07:14.4
Now, Sonny, I don't want to go to showbiz
07:16.1
and talk about your love life, etc.
07:18.3
Let's get down to business.
07:21.7
Of course, folks are free
07:23.7
to download yung mga excellent
07:25.4
studies by Ibon Foundation throughout the years,
07:27.6
including authored by Sonny, Africa,
07:29.7
and a lot of smart people. By the way, Sonny,
07:31.9
kamag-anak mo yung, ano, di ba, yung
07:33.6
debater champion, di ba, si Africa?
07:40.3
Nephew and neighbor.
07:41.6
Wow. Okay. Send my regards.
07:43.4
Actually, bumped up our cachet here.
07:46.2
Little neighbor and katipunan.
07:49.5
Congratulations, David, Africa.
07:52.5
Perfected glory for me.
07:53.7
No, I know, I know.
07:54.5
I mean, that refraction is always a good thing.
07:57.4
No, I mean, ako and Leloy, of course,
07:59.4
we were competitive debaters back in the UP,
08:01.7
atinay, etc. But we never thought
08:03.7
there'll be a Filipino be world champion.
08:05.4
Because, you know, we had to deal with a lot of racism,
08:07.8
let's be honest about it, coming from the
08:09.5
developing world. You know, we didn't
08:11.5
have the right posh accent, blah, blah, blah.
08:14.0
But I'm so glad that, you know,
08:15.6
brilliant kids like your nephew have
08:17.3
shattered that glass ceiling.
08:19.4
And, of course, they're brilliant themselves.
08:21.2
No question about it. I'm just saying,
08:23.7
something emotional for me and Leloy.
08:25.3
Actually, we had the whole episode just about
08:27.5
your nephew, right? And then how
08:29.7
we feel this is our moment.
08:32.0
Yeah, yeah. Believe me or not.
08:33.6
Anyway, digression. Now, let's go to
08:35.6
forget about their nephew for a while.
08:37.7
Let's talk about...
08:38.2
I'll probably look for that and pass it to him
08:39.8
if I haven't seen it yet.
08:40.9
Sige, I think I'll find it. Yeah, dun sa episode namin next.
08:43.1
I'll forward ko na lang sa'yo, Sonny.
08:45.4
Now, Sonny, let's go back to this.
08:47.6
Of course, you're great, too.
08:49.2
I'm just, you know, I'm just nag-digress lang ako
08:51.0
just to put things. I mean, there's something
08:53.0
perhaps with your extended family.
08:55.0
Teka, they should... You're super choppy.
08:59.0
Just get back to me.
09:00.7
No, don't worry about it. We're still hearing you.
09:02.7
I think as long as we get the audio right, I think
09:04.7
that should be fine. So, Sonny,
09:06.9
let me put you on speaker and then probably
09:08.9
remove my video para faster yan
09:10.5
when I question you and all.
09:12.8
Now, Sonny, let's go back to this. First of all,
09:15.2
what is your assessment of the Marcos
09:16.8
Jr. Administration's economic
09:18.9
performance so far?
09:20.8
What is the good, if any, what is the
09:22.8
bad, and what is the ugly? I think that's a good
09:24.7
framework. The good, the bad, and the ugly, if we can
09:30.9
sorry. I'm a little bit nasty. I mean,
09:32.5
there's nothing good.
09:36.6
It's tough, you know. I mean,
09:38.3
I always had this weird
09:40.7
irritation, people
09:42.8
trying to find the good in something when
09:44.5
it's fundamentally bad. I mean, it's like
09:46.7
saying, oh, don't worry about Hitler.
09:48.8
You know, he loved dogs. He was so nice to
09:51.5
Wait, grabe ka naman.
09:52.7
Hitler ka agad. I mean, nag-escalate
09:54.8
ka agad. Di man lang Bolsonaro.
09:58.2
Government's economic policy
10:00.5
spans so much of the economy.
10:02.7
So parang, completely, if you want to find
10:04.5
something good, may meron naman.
10:06.8
So, alimbawa, right now, in the middle of
10:08.7
all these social problems,
10:11.2
okay, that 1 million
10:13.0
na cash subsidies
10:14.9
binibigay for informal
10:16.7
workers, of course, that's good.
10:19.0
Yeah, but if you're talking about
10:20.2
roughly 20 million families,
10:22.7
or like poverty line
10:24.9
or below, or like sort of
10:26.5
poverty line and vulnerable,
10:31.1
a big thing out of that good, that tiny
10:33.1
good thing? So parang, sorry, I mean,
10:35.1
not to be nasty, but to put it
10:37.0
into context, you can always find
10:42.9
Right, parang your point is
10:44.4
for not inflicting. But I think
10:46.5
the economy is really, is downward side.
10:49.0
It's not actually even flat. It's not
10:50.6
actually going downwards.
10:52.7
Right now, that moment to find something good, it's
10:54.7
yeah, and I think it's kind of pandering to people
10:56.8
trying to sort of find some
10:58.6
justification in the way things are.
11:00.5
Right now, feeling ko, mag-focus tayo dun sa
11:02.8
bad and the ugly kasi
11:04.2
there's really so much to change.
11:06.5
I think the pinaka-pinaka bad is
11:08.6
the fact that in terms of outcomes,
11:11.1
it doesn't make sense that
11:12.7
after all these, you know, hype
11:14.8
growth and hype foreign investment,
11:17.1
di ba, biggest foreign investment
11:19.7
tatay, I think in 2020,
11:22.7
parang 11, 12 billion dollars.
11:24.9
Wow, it's like a record for the Philippines.
11:27.9
Parang despite all the
11:29.1
rapid growth, despite all the foreign
11:31.0
investment, despite all the claims
11:35.3
fixing our competitiveness,
11:37.5
why are roughly 7
11:39.2
or 8 out of 10 Filipino families
11:42.5
self-declare themselves poor or
11:44.8
borderline poor? So parang, that's such a
11:47.0
big bad. This is the SWES survey, right?
11:49.7
I think in our economy's
11:50.9
spaces, stop finding,
11:55.5
Huwag natin pilitin, essentially,
11:57.3
yung ano, di ba? Huwag natin pilitin na.
11:59.0
Huwag natin pilitin na.
11:59.4
Huwag natin self-reflection, eh.
12:00.9
I mean, despite 14 years of all
12:03.2
these, you know, gloating about
12:04.9
rising star in Asia,
12:09.2
rapid economic growth,
12:11.0
well-respected central bankers,
12:13.2
rising tiger economy.
12:15.4
It is kind of ugly that they're
12:17.0
not accepting the fact that
12:19.2
our industry or manufacturing
12:22.7
At least, since the 1940s,
12:24.5
they're accepting that all this foreign
12:26.0
investment makes for good headlines
12:28.5
and a profit of the Philippine economy.
12:33.8
So, I think the ugliness comes from
12:35.7
parang kulang na self-reflection.
12:39.4
Saya nga, eh. I mean, you know,
12:41.4
we're gonna keep going from
12:43.3
administration to administration,
12:44.7
and the economy's gonna keep on
12:46.8
sasad-sad talaga siya.
12:49.2
If there's no acceptance that,
12:50.7
may problem talaga tayo.
12:52.7
So, what you're saying is huwag natin
12:56.8
pilitin na there's any good
12:59.4
if there's not a good.
13:00.3
Ako naman, I mean, hindi naman totally sarcastic.
13:02.9
At least, I'm glad that we don't have
13:04.7
an inflation of 80% like Turkey
13:06.7
and Argentina. I'm glad that
13:09.0
we're still the fastest growing in ASEAN,
13:10.7
although, of course, our per capita is so low that
13:12.4
growing at 6% is whatever, right?
13:14.5
We should be growing at 10%. I'm just saying,
13:16.8
as someone who always studies other developing
13:18.9
countries of the world, you know, I've been in the Middle East,
13:20.7
I've been in other parts of the world. Parang,
13:22.7
at least, we're not as bad as them, right? But, you're right.
13:24.9
I mean, that doesn't make it good,
13:26.8
but, I don't know. It's better than nothing.
13:29.7
But, what's wrong?
13:31.3
Imbis na good, bad, the ugly.
13:35.0
bad than the ugly. Kung ganun,
13:36.7
I can sort of pick up a few
13:38.9
better than bad things.
13:40.4
Sama ka, inflation, good. We don't have
13:42.6
double-digit inflation, but also,
13:45.5
second highest inflation
13:46.5
for the year in Southeast Asia.
13:48.3
Yes, I agree with you.
13:52.7
It's gonna be stretching it to call it good.
13:54.6
Parang yung good, kailangan may talaw ka
13:56.8
na maganda talaga. And it's headed towards
13:58.5
something better. But, yung good natin is
14:00.8
it's just not as bad as
14:02.8
others. So, Sonny,
14:04.8
how ugly is the...
14:06.1
I'm in a bad mood. I've been in traffic for so long.
14:08.3
I know, Sonny. Okay. Ganito na. Sonny, you have to
14:10.7
understand also where I'm coming from. Kasi ako,
14:12.9
my philosophy of political
14:14.6
mobilization is that there should always be
14:16.6
a philosophy of hope. And my
14:18.7
fear is if you do not talk
14:20.7
about anything good, no matter how little,
14:22.7
baka maging cynical na lang
14:24.7
tao and they switch out. Do you get where I'm coming from?
14:27.1
Because, you know, as someone who...
14:28.4
Do you get what I'm saying? So, actually, this is
14:30.7
not cynical. I'm just saying,
14:32.7
before you get people interested in
14:34.6
political activism, you have to
14:36.6
give them a sense of reasonable hope.
14:39.3
Now, we can debate about what is a
14:40.7
reasonable hope, but my point is, if you say the
14:42.6
picture is all dark and dreary,
14:44.9
ang hirap mag-mobilize ng tao. People just
14:46.7
switch off. Sonny, I can tell you confidently
14:48.9
because I'm very active online,
14:50.4
social media, mainstream media,
14:52.7
and napansin ko, if toxic ang tingin
14:54.8
ng tao sa politika, they're just gonna leave it.
14:57.0
And I think that's bad because
14:58.5
it's just gonna leave the field to the baddies.
15:00.6
The baddies want people to lose hope
15:02.4
because when people are hopeless, they can become
15:04.3
enslaved. That's my reading of it,
15:06.7
Sonny. So, I hope you see where I'm coming
15:08.5
from. But, absolutely, you know me,
15:10.5
I'm very realistic. I mean, goodness.
15:12.5
I mean, I have all... You know, I always compare
15:14.6
Philippines with other developing countries. Hindi ako
15:16.5
nagpipiling na walang ganyan sa States, walang ganyan
15:18.5
sa Singapore. I always say like, walang ganyan
15:20.5
sa Thailand, walang ganyan sa Vietnam, walang ganyan sa
15:22.5
Argentina or Turkey. I'm that kind of person.
15:24.9
Now, Sonny, let's get...
15:26.2
Pero, I'll sing it lang. Pero, good kasi
15:28.7
I'm not gonna find it in
15:30.3
the government's current economic policies
15:32.3
kasi they're repeating the same mistakes that have been
15:34.5
repeated for literally
15:36.2
every developing plan since the
15:38.2
base for plan ng Bruce Plan nung late
15:40.4
1940. Sa akin, I'd look for the
15:42.6
good outside of the official
15:44.2
development plans, outside of the official
15:46.1
technocracy. I'd look for it
15:48.5
the fact that, halimbawa, ikaw,
15:50.3
nagtatanong ka. And that's a big thing for me.
15:52.5
I mean, for the longest time,
15:54.2
industrialization has dumped on. Since the 1990s,
15:56.5
I mean, the last president
15:58.3
even talked about industrialization was
16:00.3
President Ramos, diba?
16:02.0
Since then, from Estrada,
16:04.6
Mark and Gloria onwards,
16:06.3
it was about, yeah, let's open up
16:08.4
and then whatever the market decides is our
16:10.4
economic structure, that's it. So, I can...
16:13.1
For me, that's a good thing. But it's not
16:14.3
coming from government. And to be
16:16.3
clear, we do talk to a few technocrats
16:18.6
within government, but they're so
16:20.5
not cynical, but they've been so
16:22.5
bludgeoned by the fact that
16:24.1
it's not in their career interest to talk about
16:26.4
industrialization.
16:27.9
It's not in their career interest
16:30.5
to break this hegemony
16:32.6
of medieval thinking. So, they're not speaking.
16:34.7
But sa akin, the good won't be in the official
16:36.4
structures. I think it comes from outside, from
16:38.4
people like you, public intellectuals talking about
16:40.6
it. It comes from, they're still,
16:42.8
despite all the attacks against progressives,
16:44.9
there are still organizations
16:46.6
talking about industrialization, talking
16:48.5
about economic reforms. There are still,
16:50.6
despite the political attacks, a few
16:52.5
precious few politicians
16:54.3
trying to sort of, you know,
16:56.5
create a bulwark against neoliberalism.
16:59.1
And then, they think
17:00.3
it's for, it's not good, but
17:02.4
yung tanong ko kasi kanina sa
17:04.5
economic policy, hindi ko pipilitin.
17:06.6
I mean, even their housekeeping's not very
17:08.6
good, eh. And then,
17:10.4
the good they could do,
17:14.7
It's like, part of the whole
17:17.8
feel-good properties
17:20.6
to a handful of UV
17:22.5
leaders and drivers, a handful of
17:24.1
low-income families, a handful of
17:26.2
farmers. Parang, kung sabihin namin
17:28.1
good yan, parang na-legitimize
17:30.5
pa yung feel-good
17:32.0
performative tokenistic economic
17:34.4
reforms. So, I don't want to be cynical
17:36.4
in that sense, pero, in terms of
17:39.5
people are asking
17:41.6
what can be done. People are organizing,
17:44.7
they're being attacked, and surviving those
17:46.4
attacks, I think that's the raw
17:48.4
matter for development. People have to start,
17:50.7
it's a social movement, eh. All economic
17:52.4
change naman is a question of
17:54.2
mass mobilization, eh.
17:56.1
And intellectuals.
17:57.2
Right. I mean, first of all, let me say,
17:59.3
you have no idea. I mean, there are some, even
18:01.0
Wall Street folks who have been listening to some of my
18:03.1
podcasts on industrial policy and all.
18:05.0
So, you never know who's listening to you, right?
18:06.9
We're hoping the right people will listen
18:08.7
in one way or another. But, you're right.
18:11.2
I mean, ako naman, kasi ganitong basa ko
18:13.1
dito, Sunny. The reason we're growing
18:15.2
at 6% has nothing to do with the
18:17.1
supposed intelligence of our
18:18.7
administration. It's because of the hard-working
18:22.4
It's because of all the, you know.
18:24.3
So, that for me is good, because we have hard-working
18:26.9
people, you know, who are sacrificing
18:29.1
blood and sweat to make sure
18:30.6
na the country as a whole moves forward.
18:32.6
That, for me, is a good thing. That our
18:34.6
Kababayans at least have that
18:36.6
room for contribution to economic growth.
18:38.8
That our Kababayans are the kind of,
18:40.8
have the kind of work ethic and education.
18:42.7
So, for me, that's a good thing. Again, you're right.
18:44.5
We shouldn't credit the government for that.
18:46.7
But, at least, I'm also gonna credit the government for not
18:48.5
totally getting in the way of that. I mean,
18:50.9
we're growing in spite of,
18:52.4
our government. But, you know, I know
18:54.4
a lot of bad governments around the world doing
18:56.4
crazy mumbo-jumbo economics. I mean, look at, for
18:58.4
instance, Raja Type Ardoan in Turkey,
19:00.5
right? Playing mumbo-jumbo games
19:02.3
with interest rates and all of that. Thankfully,
19:04.4
we don't have at least those kind of leaders. So,
19:06.3
again, I agree with you in terms
19:08.4
of making sure you don't give credit to those
19:10.3
who don't deserve it. But, I'm just saying,
19:12.3
there's always a silver lining there.
19:14.5
And, I'm not forcing it in this kind of
19:16.2
pathetic, self-satisfied, liberal,
19:18.7
complacent way. No, I'm just saying,
19:20.4
we have to give credit to the Filipino people. All of
19:22.4
the OFWs and Pinoys. I mean, Sonny,
19:24.3
you're not the only one who has come across
19:26.2
Filipinos with horrible circumstances
19:28.6
abroad. I worked in the Philippine
19:29.9
Overseas Workers Affairs Committee back
19:32.4
in the day, legislature. We had to deal with
19:34.2
very, very difficult situations
19:36.1
in the Middle East, among others. I
19:38.3
just came from Scandinavia,
19:40.3
supposedly the most developed part of the world.
19:42.4
And, you know, even there, you know, we were
19:44.2
checking if, you know, kamusta yung kalagayan ng mga Pinoy
19:46.4
doon, talking to the DFA folks,
19:48.3
friends like that. So, I get where you're coming from.
19:50.4
Now, Sonny, let's go back to the green
19:52.4
part. What is really super ugly
19:54.3
about the fact that the Philippines, despite being
19:56.4
the fastest-growing economy in the region, is not
19:58.4
creating quality growth. It's not creating
20:00.7
– oh, I hate it – inclusive
20:02.6
growth. Yung mga ganyan, mga ek-ek na yan.
20:06.4
UN language, right? I mean, just
20:08.4
say it for what it is.
20:10.1
The Filipino poor are not being lifted out of
20:12.4
poverty. The Filipino middle class is under
20:14.2
difficult conditions. I gave a number
20:16.3
in 2012. The World Bank said
20:18.2
something like 40 richest
20:20.3
families took home 76
20:22.4
percent of newly created growth.
20:24.6
That's twice worse than Thailand,
20:26.6
which has been in the midst of a kind of a civil
20:28.5
mini-civil war. That's like
20:30.4
five times worse than Malaysia,
20:32.4
and completely incomparable to the situation
20:34.7
in Japan. This is 2011-2012,
20:38.4
I don't think even the term not
20:40.4
inclusive enough is
20:42.4
capturing it. But
20:44.2
just to set the tone for our next two
20:48.1
Sonny, what is the super
20:50.6
ugly part about our growth? So, you already,
20:52.4
hinted at hunger rates.
20:54.3
What about employment quality,
20:56.2
underemployment, and also
20:57.9
in terms of productivity.
21:00.7
In terms of productivity. Don't worry, I'll reset
21:02.1
the internet after this episode for hopefully better.
21:04.5
So, let's talk about these three things.
21:06.3
First, perhaps, food
21:08.3
inflation and impact on hunger.
21:10.2
Second, Sonny, let's discuss
21:12.4
in terms of, aside
21:14.1
from food inflation and hunger, let's discuss
21:18.4
quality of employment or underemployment,
21:20.8
which is a big problem for a lot of Filipino
21:22.3
people. And lastly, if we can
21:24.4
talk about productivity
21:26.3
growth, especially in manufacturing sector.
21:28.4
If you can look at those three, I think, dimensions,
21:30.9
it would be very helpful.
