01:02.8
Of course, some of your loved ones are actually friends of mine over Twitter. We have been keeping in touch throughout the years.
01:08.8
And as you may know, I mean, you know, your case has been very, very close to our hearts.
01:15.8
Ako, you know, a lot of our common friends. Some people know, actually, the other year, I almost had tears in my eyes.
01:22.1
I had to control myself when I was talking about your predicament.
01:25.8
It was always an element of hope. I always look forward to this moment.
01:30.6
And it looks like some of my prognostications about things turning in a better way has turned out.
01:35.3
But before we go into your legal case and your broader hopes for Philippine democracy,
01:41.2
Senator Delima, I mean, the last time we met was when you were still in detention.
01:44.6
I remember we discussed about...
01:46.3
Yes, you gave a visit.
01:47.0
I know. We talked about Mandela. We talked about Stoicism. We talked about faith and the Scripture and Bible.
01:55.8
So, it was a very spiritual meeting.
01:57.9
And to be honest, I was very touched by our meeting noon because I saw talagang strength of character nyo.
02:04.6
And I was also very impressed na talagang maaliwalas kayo. I mean, considering everything you were going through.
02:08.9
So, there was this kind of an almost soulful, parang beyond the fray na kayo.
02:15.3
There was this kind of a spiritual aura there.
02:17.8
So, how did you arrive at that, Senator Delima?
02:20.1
Can you tell me first about kung mag-lifestyle guro tayo?
02:23.9
Like, if you're going to give advice on resilience...
02:25.8
...strength and conviction, can you tell us your journey?
02:29.0
Because this is really one of a kind.
02:31.7
My whole ordeal has really been liberating.
02:34.0
And it's really all just a matter of attitude.
02:36.4
You know, the correct mindset.
02:38.9
Setting your right mindset on a daily basis.
02:42.5
That you've got to have your daily ordeal, your daily things to do must be set, must be scheduled.
02:57.0
And always have a purpose.
02:59.6
Because you can never tell the next day you're no longer around.
03:02.2
And you just have to make the most of every day, of every moment in life, in detention.
03:12.1
So, my routine has been very strict on a daily basis.
03:19.5
From the waking up hours and up to the last hours of the night...
03:25.7
...until I get sleepy.
03:27.7
From readings, because I have longer hours of reading, I have longer hours of praying, compared to when I was still not in detention.
03:39.7
And appreciating everything around you, even small blessings in life, even the simplest moments in life, you get to find joy in it.
03:51.7
Because you have a very limited environment, physical environment.
03:53.6
Because you have a very limited environment, physical environment.
03:55.7
Because you have a very limited environment, physical environment.
03:56.2
So everything there seems to be very important to you.
03:59.2
Everything there seems to be valuable to you.
04:03.2
And everything there seems to be...
04:05.2
It's just your whole world now.
04:07.2
So it's all important.
04:09.2
You're not wasting time.
04:11.2
You now realize which are the most essential things in your life and which ones you can do without.
04:19.2
So, simple, mundane things suddenly become valuable, essential.
04:21.2
So, simple, mundane things suddenly become valuable, essential.
04:23.2
So, simple, mundane things suddenly become valuable, essential.
04:26.2
So, simple, mundane things suddenly become valuable, essential.
04:30.7
You have time to imagine multiple things, multiple.
04:34.7
And if you know one thing, you know every others.
04:36.4
You have a very limited time to imagine multiple, multiple things.
04:37.7
You have a very limited time to imagine multiple, multiple things.
04:38.7
It's like a barrel of time.
04:41.0
It's like a cannon, that's what you play with.
04:43.0
You have a very limited time to think about as much as possible.
04:48.9
Dealing with it properly with the right psychology.
04:49.7
Dealing with it properly with the right psychology.
04:51.2
Senator, can we go back to this?
04:52.7
How did you arrive at this kind of discipline routine that carried you through this very difficult years?
04:53.7
Because just the prospect of uncertainty ...
04:54.7
Just the prospect of uncertainty.
04:55.7
I remember the last time we were together, we were talking, parang hindi sure na you will ever be granted the bail.
05:03.7
So how did you cope with it? How did you arrive at that routine?
05:08.7
Well, almost instantly, just a few days from incarceration, I told myself, I have to be busy.
05:20.4
I have to have this routine. I have to do something. I cannot afford to be idle. I cannot afford to entertain negativism.
05:31.8
I cannot afford to be distressed. And so there's never been any moment that I feel depressed because that's what I was trying to avoid.
05:44.3
Yes, I would be lonely at times. I would even cry at times, especially.
05:50.5
The first few months, thinking about my family, thinking about my home, thinking about why it happened to me.
05:58.0
It was initially a feeling of utter disbelief of what happened to me, of what was done to me.
06:06.3
Then I've got to accept it, that now I'm in this situation and I've got, as I said, deal with it properly, as best as I could.
06:17.1
Senator, the reason I'm asking this is, you know, I mean,
06:20.4
in many ways, I can relate to it because you're, you know, you're a very ambitious person.
06:24.2
You were very successful in your career.
06:26.9
You went, you know, from one high to another high.
06:29.3
I mean, becoming, I mean,
06:30.4
he's chief of the CHR and then becoming the justice secretary, very high profile, then becoming the senator of the republic.
06:36.7
I mean, you need a certain kind of spirit behind that kind of ambitious and successful life.
06:41.9
And then now suddenly you're facing this very uncertain, almost martyr-like moment.
06:47.7
So how did that psychological transition,
06:50.4
did something switch on in you or suddenly like there was a moment of spiritual awakening?
06:57.0
I mean, what's going on?
06:58.1
The reason I'm asking is because we have another precedent, right?
07:00.8
See, Ninoy, right?
07:01.7
Ninoy was a very ambitious, successful politician, and then things went really wrong for him.
07:08.0
Then suddenly something else came out of him, right?
07:10.2
Kaya nga people talagang about the young Ninoy and then the more wise, almost prophetic kind of Ninoy.
07:17.0
Did you also go through that kind of transition or something switched on in you?
07:20.8
Well, definitely I had a palpable spiritual growth in confinement because I had enough time really to pray,
07:32.2
enough time to read the Bible, to do contemplative prayer, to do reflection.
07:40.1
So deep in faith, devotional prayers, devotional readings, a lot of those.
07:50.4
So spiritual awakening.
07:54.4
I wasn't that prayerful before.
07:57.8
I hardly read Bible before.
08:03.4
Ninoy said exactly the same thing.
08:05.2
I think, Ninoy, you had interviews with 700 Club or something that he was not really a particular pious person
08:10.7
and then suddenly he realized, no?
08:12.6
Yeah, there's something else to human life and human...
08:15.5
So when I started praying, praying the rosary, contemplative prayers,
08:20.4
and reading the Bible, the scriptures, then I could feel that spiritual growth in me.
08:27.4
The purification process, the liberating, the feeling of liberation.
08:34.6
So that is the awakening.
08:37.0
That is the blessing.
08:39.3
That is the blessing of the whole ordeal.
08:42.4
It is initially a curse because I did not deserve to be in jail, but it turned out to be a blessing.
08:50.4
Because of that, I became closer to God.
08:54.0
I had conversations with God.
08:56.2
I had intimate sessions with Him early evening after Angelos and before I wrote in my journal.
09:07.0
So that's correct.
09:09.4
That's the whole environment would lead you to that.
09:15.9
When you say liberation, spiritual liberation,
09:20.4
The fact that for year after year, you're thinking about the political landscape,
09:25.0
you're thinking about your political survival, your political success,
09:28.6
and then suddenly you can put all of that aside and go to the very fundamentals of what it is to live a life,
09:34.3
to be a righteous.
09:35.4
Is it also that kind of just like casting away all of those everyday calculus and survival and all of that?
09:44.3
It's the fundamental existence and your worth as a Christian.
09:52.0
I was born a Christian.
09:54.3
I was born and raised as a Catholic.
09:56.5
I'm going back to the fundamentals because in between, in the interlude,
10:01.9
I was not really that faithful in the sense that yes, I would go to Sunday Masses,
10:10.7
but not, you know, all other obligations were not there.
10:15.7
We're not being observed.
10:18.1
Now suddenly, because again of the environment,
10:20.4
I was forced to go back to the basics as a Christian and as a Catholic.
10:28.3
So, wala na muna yung iba.
10:31.5
Let's just focus on this.
10:34.0
To me, that's more important.
10:35.9
And I was there, that's more important.
10:38.0
Even I see that there were a lot of things happening outside in the political world,
10:43.8
I want this moment.
10:50.1
I want this situation that I'm, I have a direct line to God that I'm very comfortable talking to Him,
11:01.0
communicating with Him, and it feels just so cool.
11:09.7
Yeah, yun nga eh, Senator, it's that kind of a sublime, sublime feeling and sublime aura that I noticed
11:18.4
the last time we had that kind of conversation.
11:20.9
Senator, I, you know, Attorney Delima, I have a question.
11:25.0
What about the aspect, I mean, you talked about a lot about, you know,
11:28.5
recentering yourself and casting away all of those distractions and all.
11:32.8
But what about the element of, the element of forgiveness and the element of,
11:39.1
let's be honest, I mean, when, when everything turned on you,
11:43.0
there was a lot of horrible things being said, not only against you,
11:46.4
but a lot of, against anyone who tried to stand up to Duterte.
11:49.4
I mean, all of us in,
11:50.1
our own little ways, you know, have been victim of, of that kind of Dutertismo ideology,
11:54.9
whatever you want to call it.
11:55.7
Of course, your case was the worst, by far.
11:58.2
And, and, to be, I mean, honest, there were times that I was wondering,
12:02.1
di ko kilala yung mga aking mga kababayan.
12:04.1
Like, how could they cheer on etong drug war na pumapatay ng mga ordinaryong people?
12:10.1
I couldn't believe some people who were saying horrible things about you,
12:13.1
or Maria Reza, or Riza Ontiveros.
12:15.7
And, like, parang hindi ko kilala tong bansa na to,
12:18.2
hindi eto yung mga kababayan na kilala.
12:20.1
You get what I'm saying, Senator Delima?
12:23.1
It was really difficult for me, because mahal na mahal natin yung bayan natin.
12:26.5
At mahal natin yung bayan natin dahil mahal natin yung mga kababayan natin.
12:29.4
And then, suddenly you were seeing this dark, ugly side of people,
12:33.9
this mob kind of culture and all.
12:38.0
And it was really, it was not only scary, it was really disheartening and demoralizing.
12:42.9
And I can imagine your case was thousand times worse than what a lot of us faced
12:47.4
as anyone who dared to challenge Duterte on any issue.
12:50.6
Can you tell us a little bit more about that, Attorney Delima?
12:54.5
Like, how did you deal with the question of forgiveness?
12:57.3
And understanding yung kababayan natin, how could they turn that way?
13:02.7
Because I never thought we could turn this way, or I never thought I would in my lifetime.
13:06.7
So I can imagine it was probably even more shocking in your case.
13:12.1
Yes, unimaginable.
13:13.4
Because, you know, this course that has afflicted our nation, which is the social media,
13:18.3
you know, it has, you know, in...
13:20.1
in many ways, it's even more frightening than the usual methods of cooptation and repression
13:29.2
and even, you know, the bad habits and all that.
13:33.4
But, um, I felt that sa kabila na yan, hindi ko kasi kaya na hindi pa rin ako maniwala
13:44.8
o magtiwala and have faith with our countrymen.
13:50.1
Because I knew and I felt and I believed that in the end, most of the Filipino people
13:58.9
would still know or would still be able to discern the good from the bad.
14:05.8
So in spite of that, because of the various influences, and then we have the kind of leader
14:10.4
that we had since 2016 that brought up that, that brought up, that created that kind of
14:18.3
political environment of history.
14:21.1
Of, of negativism, of, of, of, of simply casting, uh, negative things about, um, certain
14:35.3
And I was the chief target of that leader.
14:38.1
Then you can't blame the, the, uh, the, uh, some people who are gullible enough to accept
14:45.7
those lies, those vilifications.
14:50.8
Those, those, uh, lies about you.
14:52.8
Now, as I said, I never lost faith in the Filipino people, that in the end, they would
14:59.4
know that all this are simply trash, you know, so, and this, the forgiveness, the scriptures
15:10.4
teach us to forgive our enemies, even our scriptures, even tell us, teach us to love
15:19.1
Although that is a bit too difficult, but it's too much for me.
15:24.1
Forgive, forgiveness, I think is enough, but, um, forgiveness also as they say is more
15:31.4
for your sake so that you would have, you would have no further burdens if, because
15:38.4
if you keep on, on, on instilling this ill will against anyone, then, uh, you will suffer.
15:48.1
Psychologically and even health wise.
15:51.1
So, ikaw din ang magsasuffer.
15:54.1
Kung palagi kang may kinikim-kim.
15:55.1
Yun ang palagi mo iniisip.
15:56.1
Anyway, bahala na sila.
15:58.1
And, and I would always pray for them.
15:59.1
God, dear God, please give them the grace to understand what is true and what is good
16:10.8
and what is right.
16:12.7
And God, give me the grace to forgive these people.
16:17.1
So, that's my, that's how I took it.
16:22.1
I mean, of course, I mean, even in the scripture, you know, we see how the Israelites sometimes
16:29.2
I mean, when, when Moses was just receiving the Ten Commandments, a lot of things were
16:33.5
happening down there, right?
16:35.2
And of course, what happened also to Jesus Christ, you know, I mean, the kind of, you
16:39.2
know, mob attack and the horrible things done to him, you know, before his, uh, you know,
16:44.1
his, his martyrdom, right?
16:45.1
Uh, so, so we have a lot of that.
16:46.1
So, we have a lot of that.
16:47.7
But you're also right.
16:48.7
I mean, for me, uh, attorney, one of the ways I tried to understand this was grievance,
16:54.5
I mean, I think a lot of our kababayan were just so frustrated with a lot of things that
16:59.0
And this is not necessarily on, you know, the Aquino administration or, or your tenure.
17:03.3
It's just, you know, all the broken or half-fulfilled promises after the collapse of the Marcos
17:09.4
So, ako sabi ko, marami dyan mga, ano lang, frustrated lang sila and that has unfortunately
17:14.1
made them more susceptible to this policy.
17:16.1
I mean, you know, the politics of hatred and fear and grievance that Dutertismo represented.
17:20.8
But similar to you, I, I, I get your point, um, uh, Senator de Lima, which is, you know,
17:25.7
this, this is an unfortunate face, but perhaps it's part of the maturation of our democracy
17:30.6
and maturation of, you know, political consciousness among yung mga kababayan natin.
17:34.9
I mean, I, I can tell you personally, like, six, seven years ago, I, I would have doubted
17:39.2
that, you know, people, thousands of people would be interested in political analysis
17:43.0
in the way we do.
17:44.0
And now I see more and more people interested.
17:45.4
So, unfortunately, it was a difficult transition process, but I think it was, unfortunately,
17:49.8
or perhaps it's just inevitable.
17:51.2
It's part of the maturation process.
17:53.4
Now, Senator de Lima, I have another question.
17:55.3
I mean, obviously, you know, we can talk about Jesus Christ and what he had to go through,
18:00.3
you know, to fight for truth and to fulfill his, uh, his destiny.
18:05.3
Um, but obviously, there were also, you know, political figures like Mandela, among others,
18:10.3
who also went through very, very difficult, uh, moments and eventually, they came out
18:15.4
I mean, you know, there was a kind of an archetype of martyr political leader and democratic
18:19.8
icon all at once.
18:21.4
To what degree were you inspired by the experiences of these people without, of course, anyone
18:25.3
being presumptuous?
18:26.3
I mean, we're just talking about role models that you were, biographies, were there biographies
18:31.0
you were reading of, uh, heroes, revolutionary heroes?
18:33.9
Mandela, of course, were top of the list, were top of the list.
18:37.4
I, I cannot cite any other because I've been reading a lot and there's been really a lot
18:45.4
And I would not stand for truth, anyone who would stand for democracy.
18:49.9
There are several democracy icons.
18:52.0
There are several who would stand up for, for, uh, social justice.
18:56.6
So I would not really, I'm not that type of person who would, who would just be citing
19:02.2
who, my, you know, uh, my role models.
19:06.3
I, I, I would want that I take examples from, even from ordinary people.
19:13.4
Who, who take leap of faith, who would, who would, um, take extra steps to, to, um,
19:21.7
make a difference in society.
19:24.8
Now if we can go back, backslide to our discussion on the, uh, state of democracy and then the
19:31.3
political climate, I'd like to see that, uh, what's happening now is actually kind of normalization.
19:44.4
The political state of our country is a process of normalization after, after the, uh, major
19:54.1
populist disruption that was the Duterte regime.
19:58.6
See, this is a time to strengthen the institutions that Duterte destroyed.
20:08.2
And again, that's why I've been, I've been, uh, commending the, uh, this administration.
20:13.4
This administration in its respect for the rule of law and the judiciary.
20:19.4
Because it, it, you know, it would aid greatly in restoring the people's faith in the judiciary.
20:25.2
And um, I hope that the people have, uh, seen the cost of a social experiment with a leader
20:51.7
I think is the government must renamed this as a presidential trial.
20:55.6
That'sorang and katina literal.
21:01.0
So, I get nervous, you know, about like the psychoanalysis of the reform and the
21:11.0
had carried out, which had
21:14.8
national polity in
21:16.9
2016. Because that
21:18.9
to me is a malaise,
21:21.0
a malaise that should
21:22.9
never happen again.
21:28.7
this talk about his
21:30.8
running for the Senate
21:32.2
and even to be vice president
21:36.5
P.P. Sara is impeached,
21:38.7
I read about it in the papers,
21:44.5
I know that there's still remnants.
21:46.7
I know that it's still there.
21:48.6
The thirst of our people
21:54.6
And that is why there's this
21:56.9
it's a frightening revelation
22:03.0
during the time of Duterte.
22:05.1
It's a frightening
22:16.1
what it could accept
22:19.6
even if it's something
22:27.2
So it's frightening
22:28.9
because the people are
22:30.5
willing to accept
22:34.3
setup, which is very
22:36.8
injurious to democracy.
22:40.3
I mean, we talked about, of course,
22:41.9
Mandela in South Africa and all.
22:43.4
I mean, we just had Argentina electing
22:45.4
their latest version of a populist,
22:47.4
right wing populist.
22:49.0
There's still a chance that someone like
22:51.1
Donald Trump may still come back to power
22:53.0
in the United States.
22:54.3
I mean, at the very least, I don't know if
22:56.2
this should make us feel better,
22:58.6
but it looks like Senator de Lima is like,
23:00.9
this is a global malaise, right?
23:02.6
It looks like people are losing faith
23:04.7
in democratic institutions,
23:06.2
whether it's in Argentina or in the United States.
23:08.6
In Netherlands, they just also elected
23:10.3
a far-right populist government.
23:12.3
So, mukhang hindi ito unique sa Pilipinas, right?
23:15.6
This is like the flavor of the decade,
23:17.6
if I can put it that way.
23:19.6
What do you have to say about the Senator de Lima?
23:21.6
Should that make us feel better or
23:23.6
that just underscores the enormity of challenge
23:25.6
we face in fledgling democracies
23:27.6
like the Philippines
23:29.6
as we try to fight for
23:31.6
civility and civil rights at the same time?
23:35.6
continue doing that. We just have to be
23:37.6
to continue asserting the values
23:40.3
the ideals of democracy,
23:44.3
of justice, notwithstanding
23:46.3
the trends that we're seeing
23:48.3
worldwide. Because
23:54.3
With all its loopholes, with all its pitfalls,
23:57.3
with all its imperfections,
23:59.3
it's still democracy.
24:03.3
That is the ideal
24:05.3
governmental setup.
24:09.3
may be able to address
24:13.3
problems and challenges
24:15.3
of a particular state
24:21.3
Because it yields,
24:23.3
it produces further
24:25.3
more serious problems
24:31.3
I'm not forcing you to be
24:33.3
a political analyst here, but are there
24:37.3
or are there inspirational movements
24:39.3
or leaders that you think
24:43.3
the way forward? Whether
24:45.3
here in the Philippines, in Asia, in the US,
24:47.3
in the West? Are you looking at certain
24:49.3
let's say gold standards or
24:51.3
best practices perhaps to push back
24:53.3
against this authoritarian
24:55.3
populist, Dutertismo kind of
24:57.3
social political malice?
24:59.3
I'm sorry, I have nothing in mind.
25:01.3
I have nobody in mind at the moment.
25:11.3
No, I was just wondering while you were in
25:13.3
detention whether, I mean
25:15.3
what were you reading without
25:17.3
forcing you to divulge?
25:19.3
All sorts, all types of genre.
25:21.3
Serious stuffs, spiritual
25:27.3
detective novels,
25:31.3
And I read several books at a time.
25:41.3
even to me by my visitors.
25:43.3
So I have a hard time
25:45.3
choosing which ones to read first.
25:47.3
And because I have so
25:51.3
Various types. There's a
25:55.3
Sir, is there like a five
25:59.3
I know it's so hard when you have read so much.
26:01.3
I mean a friend of ours said 1,000
26:03.3
books pa lang from his side.
26:05.3
I mean, if they're like top five you can choose
26:07.3
and recommend. I don't have my list.
26:09.3
I have a list but I don't have it now.
26:11.3
Top of your mind.
26:19.3
have it. Or are they like
26:21.3
authors or figures or something that
26:23.3
you want people to check out? If they're going also
26:25.3
through difficult moments. Maybe not as difficult as
26:27.3
yours but you know, I'm
26:29.3
sure. Kaya nga sabi ko lifestyle guru eh.
26:31.3
Lifestyle pa lang.
26:35.3
I forward man lang sakin.
26:37.3
Now, Sen. Delima, I have another question.
26:41.3
we are seeing some positive movements
26:43.3
in terms of your case.
26:45.3
Can you tell us a little bit about what are the
26:47.3
next steps you're looking forward to? I mean
26:49.3
many would say that it looks like your
26:51.3
full vindication is almost inevitable
26:53.3
but obviously we don't want to be complacent.
26:55.3
Can you tell us a little bit about
26:57.3
what are you looking forward to in terms of
26:59.3
the legal cases still
27:01.3
against you and are you
27:03.3
cautiously optimistic this will be resolved?
27:05.3
In the near future para yung full
27:07.3
vindication nyo is official more or less.
27:09.3
Although I think almost everyone believes
27:11.3
with exception of some groups,
27:13.3
some cult group na
27:15.3
everything was really politically motivated
27:17.3
as far as charges against you are concerned.
27:21.3
confident about the last
27:23.3
about this last case.
27:25.3
I'm given provisional liberty
27:29.3
we're just waiting for the formal offer of evidence
27:31.3
of the prosecution and then
27:33.3
if the court resolves it, we will file
27:35.3
our demurrer to evidence.
27:37.3
And if it's granted,
27:39.3
then the case is dismissed. That is tantamount
27:41.3
to acquittal. We are confident
27:45.3
the presentation of their
27:47.3
bail evidence, the bail
27:51.3
nothing of essence
27:53.3
or nothing of significance could be
27:55.3
added to the evidence that
27:57.3
were presented during the bail hearings.
27:59.3
And nothing could be added as
28:01.3
to be discussed further
28:03.3
in the judgment of the court
28:11.3
finding of insufficiency
28:13.3
of evidence, its finding
28:15.3
of no conspiracy because
28:17.3
the charge is illegal conspiracy
28:19.3
to commit illegal
28:25.3
at the bail stage
28:29.3
the court already found
28:35.3
nothing more significant
28:39.3
in the course of the presentation of the
28:41.3
evidence in chief,
28:45.3
Yeah, it looks like
28:49.3
would be the same.
28:53.3
No sufficient evidence
28:55.3
because the prosecution is the proof.
28:57.3
If it failed to do so at the bail stage,
28:59.3
what more this time?
29:03.3
confident but still
29:05.3
cautiously optimistic
29:07.3
Yes. No room for complacency
29:09.3
on that front. Thank you also
29:11.3
Tori de Lima. I mean, you being a lawyer
29:13.3
also helps explaining
29:15.3
why you're cautiously optimistic
29:17.3
on this front. Now,
29:19.3
Sir de Lima, I mean,
29:21.3
let's talk about tormentors, right?
29:23.3
I mean, is the next phase here to go
29:25.3
against... Of course, it's one...
29:27.3
I mean, there are many unfortunate...
29:29.3
Unfortunately, many people fell for all of the
29:31.3
black propaganda and wars and
29:33.3
vulgarity that was deployed against you.
29:35.3
Ibang usapan yan. But there's some people who knew
29:37.3
very well that this was fake news,
29:39.3
this was a politically motivated
29:41.3
move, and yet they enabled it
29:43.3
or they were orchestrating it.
29:47.3
Is the next step here for Senator de Lima
29:49.3
to go after the tormentors? Because you talk about
29:51.3
democracy and institutions.
29:53.3
Democracy and institutions do not just
29:55.3
come out of nowhere. You have to fight
29:57.3
for them. And one of the ways is to fight
29:59.3
against people who are undermining
30:01.3
our judicial institutions. Yung mga
30:03.3
binababa yung mga institution natin.
30:05.3
Justice system natin. Is that the next
30:07.3
step, Senator de Lima? I mean,
30:09.3
sino ba sila? Dapat humanda na sila.
30:13.3
Definitely and absolutely we will file cases
30:15.3
against them. They have to be held
30:27.3
Yet, state, aside from...
30:29.3
You know, I can already...
30:31.3
And there will be some others
30:33.3
that have to be held accountable for being
30:35.3
responsible for this,
30:37.3
the prosecution for persuading,
30:39.3
for coercing, for coming up
30:41.3
with those fabricated evidence,
30:49.3
witnesses. So they use operators,
30:51.3
they use handlers
30:53.3
who approach, who talk to
30:55.3
these witnesses for them to falsely
30:57.3
testify against me.
