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00:00.0
Sir, and we have a very special guest. Of course, all our guests are special, including the father of our guests today.
00:07.5
If we had Chael Jocno, attorney Chael Jocno, Dean Chael Jocno in the past, now naman we have his very talented son, Director Pepe Jocno.
00:16.4
Thank you very much, Director, for joining us.
00:20.6
Richard, thank you for having me.
00:22.6
Pleasure. I know the connection is not at best, unfortunately.
00:25.7
Sa daming mga umakyat dito sa Baguio, even the internet is a little bit overflowing.
00:30.7
But Pepe, before we go into your latest work, which is of course Gomborza, and we're seeing a lot of very, very touching reviews coming,
00:41.1
including from my former colleague and GMM Networking good friend, of course, Atom.
00:44.6
I don't know kung madali mapaluha si Atom Aurelio, but it looks like you did something special there.
00:50.4
Are you overwhelmed or surprised by the responses coming from Ricky Lee?
00:55.6
From Atom Aurelio, from people that both of you and I very much respect.
01:01.0
I'm touched, overwhelmed, yeah.
01:05.7
Honestly, nagulat na naka-anxiety pala.
01:09.9
Okay, I'm pleased.
01:12.4
Yesterday, I was really, really, you know, over the course of the last few days,
01:16.2
I was feeling very anxious about how people would react to the film, receive the film,
01:21.0
whether they would understand or they would feel for it.
01:25.6
Even hearing the initial first few reactions,
01:28.0
first, I heard that Atom was...
01:31.1
He was seated in the same row as me.
01:34.8
I heard that he had started crying toward the end of the film.
01:38.0
And that really made me...
01:43.3
It really gave me joy because it told me that the film is connecting on an emotional level.
01:49.3
And then the day after, when I got a message, a personal message from Sir Ricky,
01:55.6
He said that he also liked the film.
01:57.7
Sir Ricky kasi is my mentor.
02:00.8
I studied screenwriting under him.
02:03.6
And so to hear that from your mentor was very touching.
02:06.5
And then yesterday, you know, we...
02:10.0
Our film is on the lower end of the spectrum when it comes to the number of cinemas playing our film.
02:15.4
So we were all, you know, very anxious, very cautious.
02:19.7
But then hearing the initial reports of screenings getting sold out all around,
02:27.7
And in the some...
02:29.0
In the few provincial screens that we have.
02:31.4
And then hearing also reports from my checkers that...
02:34.6
Not just our checkers, by the way, but also family and friends who've seen the film.
02:37.7
Hearing reports of people clapping and standing up at the end of the film.
02:41.6
And crying at the end of the film.
02:44.2
Really, really just made...
02:46.9
It's the best surprise for me.
02:49.7
I am really, really happy right now.
02:52.7
Well, I mean, I'm yet to watch it because for some reason,
02:55.4
I'm not sure if it's still available here in Baguio.
02:59.7
I was hoping to watch it before I interview you.
03:03.2
I'll make sure that, you know, I'll assess it on its own terms.
03:06.8
Now, I mean, I remember the lines that Nick Joaquin used during the execution part.
03:12.5
And this is towards the end of the very first chapter of A Question of Heroes.
03:15.9
And I was, you know, brought to tears.
03:17.7
I'll be honest about that.
03:18.9
And, you know, everyone talks about Rizal.
03:21.4
Everyone talks about, you know, your usual suspects of Ilustrados.
03:25.4
Before there was the Ilustrados, there were, of course, the Gumburzas, right?
03:28.5
And that's where my question comes in.
03:31.2
Why did you think na dapat nagsimula tayo sa Gumburzas?
03:34.9
Sa tingin mo ba this was an unexplored part of our history?
03:37.6
Or that the psychological and the emotional relevance of that
03:40.8
and the impact on the Rizal generation was perhaps not as appreciated
03:45.3
by the available film arts and education system that we have?
03:51.2
Well, the film originated with just with the communications,
03:55.0
that's just gone.
03:56.8
They have produced...
03:58.4
This is their second feature film.
03:59.7
They produced Ignacio de Loyola previously.
04:04.1
They had the idea to make the film.
04:06.4
And I think for them, it was, of course, a connection to the story of priests.
04:11.6
At the same time, they had also wanted to make this film
04:13.9
as a tribute to the 500 years of the church in the Philippines.
04:18.2
Ah, right, right.
04:20.5
And after they got the idea,
04:23.5
they asked a bunch of...
04:25.0
directors to, you know,
04:27.9
to meet and pitch their take on the film.
04:31.2
And I had, in that process,
04:34.2
read about the three priests.
04:36.8
My connection was a bit different.
04:39.2
I, of course, got a lot of priesthood.
04:41.8
And I don't consider myself a very religious person also.
04:45.0
And I, you know, when I...
04:47.3
Honestly, when I heard celebration of 500 years of the church,
04:52.1
I also had the question,
04:53.9
is that even something...
04:59.7
But the more I read about Compuza,
05:04.7
the more I began to understand
05:06.2
why they were so important
05:08.7
beyond them being priests.
05:10.7
And this is what I came to just come with.
05:14.7
This is a story not about them as priests,
05:16.8
but about them as human beings.
05:18.7
And when I said that,
05:21.3
they agreed with that.
05:22.7
This is a celebration of their humanity.
05:25.0
Because at that time,
05:27.7
their humanity was being denied
05:29.7
by the Spanish government.
05:32.0
They were not giving...
05:33.7
whether we were Indio or half Spanish,
05:38.2
we were not given the same rights
05:39.6
as people who were born in Spain.
05:42.2
Colonial subjects.
05:43.3
We were just colonial subjects.
05:45.9
Exactly, exactly.
05:47.3
So when we all agreed on that,
05:49.4
this is a celebration of humanity.
05:51.3
It's a celebration of...
05:55.0
of how the question of humanity
05:57.0
gave birth to what it means to be Filipino.
06:01.2
Then, that's where the ball started to get rolling
06:07.0
Yeah, I mean, that's a very important intervention.
06:09.6
I mean, in a way, he joked.
06:11.0
I mean, I think...
06:12.1
Did you have a background in Ateneo?
06:14.0
I mean, usually in UP, right?
06:15.7
The idea is that,
06:16.4
oh, Rizal, he was a reformist, blah, blah, blah.
06:19.2
It's really Bonifacio.
06:20.2
It was a real revolutionary.
06:21.4
No offense to my friends and colleagues in UP,
06:23.9
but I always felt...
06:24.8
found that a baloney
06:25.9
because Rizal's liberalism and republicanism
06:29.2
was revolutionary in the context of colonial subjugation.
06:32.9
And to push the logic even further,
06:35.0
to ask for, you know,
06:36.8
Filipino-born individuals to be priests
06:39.5
and to spread the message of the Lord
06:41.5
to the people without direct intervention
06:44.2
from Madrid and subjugation,
06:46.6
that was a form of revolutionary politics in itself, right?
06:49.3
I mean, again, people tend to look at the church
06:51.5
a hundred years later
06:52.7
or they tend to extrapolate
06:54.6
what's happening back then to today,
06:56.5
but we have to understand things in their own context, no?
07:00.4
So, Nick Joaquin considered Padre Borges
07:03.3
as the first major hero
07:05.8
in the struggle for Filipino nationalism.
07:08.6
What was your understanding of it?
07:12.8
What kind of literature inspired your framing?
07:16.6
I mean, there's so many ways to approach the Gomborza martyrdom, right?
07:20.6
Who influenced you the most?
07:22.4
What was your intellectual and historical approach?
07:24.6
Well, just to backtrack a little bit,
07:29.0
I'm actually not from Ateneo.
07:31.4
I studied in La Salle.
07:33.1
Ay, nga, sir, La Salle.
07:34.3
Sorry about that.
07:35.9
Yeah, so, honestly, yeah, that's one of the first things.
07:39.0
That's one of the first things I said.
07:40.2
You guys know I'm not from...
07:41.3
Na-stress ka yata sa atin eh.
07:42.8
I'm sorry, La Salle.
07:44.9
No, no, no, it's okay, it's okay.
07:47.6
Of course, they had known that I studied in La Salle.
07:52.4
At Ateneo and La Salle, sir,
07:54.6
are friends and I even have this dichotomy between the two.
07:57.4
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
07:59.7
In terms of research,
08:02.5
there are a lot of conflicting historical accounts about Gomborza
08:12.0
and about the Cavite Mutiny,
08:14.5
which is the reason why Gomborza was executed.
08:19.5
So, the Cavite Mutiny happened in 1872.
08:22.4
It was an opera...
08:24.6
It was a mutiny within Port San Felipe in Cavite.
08:29.7
And some accounts had said that it was just, you know,
08:35.1
soldiers who were unhappy and wanting more wages or less taxes
08:42.8
and a few things.
08:46.2
We can get into that later.
08:47.5
Other accounts had said, no, this was a revolutionary movement.
08:54.6
We had considered a script that had, for example,
08:58.0
all these, you know, all these competing accounts
09:01.2
and we decided that we needed to stick to one.
09:04.2
And that was heavily informed by the works of Father Schumacher,
09:10.2
And also, one of our foremost historians, I think,
09:12.5
is about that era.
09:15.3
So, Father Schumacher had written a lot about Burgos,
09:18.2
about Burgos' manifesto,
09:20.6
which even that, Burgos had written a manifesto
09:22.9
which he signed Los Filipinos.
09:24.6
Which is one of the first documents
09:26.7
where we see Filipinos being used as a term to describe us.
09:30.4
Or at least their group.
09:33.0
Some accounts say that he wrote it, others didn't.
09:36.0
So, we had to say, no.
09:37.4
We went to Father Schumacher,
09:39.8
who said he did write the Burgos' manifesto.
09:42.8
Father Schumacher had also written an account of Cavite Mutiny
09:46.5
called Cavite Mutiny Definitive History.
09:50.9
So, those were our primary sources.
09:52.9
And he had laid out...
09:54.6
very brilliantly, also very succinctly,
09:57.3
why he believed that the Cavite Mutiny was a revolutionary movement.
10:03.0
So, those are the two primary sources.
10:06.0
And then, here and there, we would get others.
10:08.0
Of course, I asked a lot from my Tita Maris,
10:10.5
who used to head the National Historical Commission.
10:14.3
I would call her every now and then,
10:16.3
especially during the shoot.
10:18.9
Of course, me and the actors read a lot of Sir Ambeth Ocampos.
10:26.9
Especially, and that helped us especially with the Garote scene,
10:31.8
with the execution.
10:33.0
We really pulled up for the execution scene.
10:37.2
Word for word, we used the last words of Gomez and Burgos
10:40.5
as was written in Sir Ambeth's columns.
10:45.2
So, yeah, it was fun.
10:47.9
Actually, doing all that research for this film,
10:50.6
we ended up with a script that was...
10:54.6
30-something, almost 140 pages.
10:58.9
And then, of course, we had to trim it down.
11:04.1
And so, during the pandemic,
11:06.5
actually, it took us two years
11:07.5
to really keep working on the script back and forth,
11:11.6
shorten it, streamline it in terms of, you know,
11:15.4
zeroing in on what is the story we're trying to tell here.
11:19.2
And then, we ended up with an 85 or so page script,
11:22.5
which is what you'll see in the movie house.
11:24.6
Sorry if I'm geeking over this.
11:26.9
Actually, to be honest,
11:27.7
the first time I heard about your project
11:29.5
was when I was in Madrid earlier this year.
11:32.2
In March, we had this, you know,
11:33.6
annual Philippine-Spain kind of event, you know,
11:36.6
that scholars from both sides come together,
11:39.1
experts and officials.
11:41.6
And from a good friend of mine,
11:45.2
So, we're talking about Philippine-Spain
11:46.9
and how, you know, as a Filipino being Spain,
11:50.0
it's a kind of a mixed feeling, right?
11:51.7
At the same time,
11:52.9
there's a kind of a chip on our shoulders,
11:54.6
because of the whole thing that happened to Rizal.
11:57.4
In fact, the occasion of our visit there,
11:59.6
because our event was in Instituto Cervantes,
12:03.9
Rizal's work officially were inducted
12:06.2
into the Hall of Fame of Spanish literature, right?
12:09.6
So, it was a very special moment,
12:11.2
you know, goosebump moment.
12:12.9
So, as a Filipino,
12:14.0
you feel so proud that a fellow Filipino
12:15.9
or the father of the Filipino nation in some ways
12:18.7
is now part of the Spanish canon
12:21.3
with Cervantes and the whole thing.
12:24.6
Marquez and all of that.
12:26.2
But at the same time, of course,
12:27.2
there's also this kind of a semi-ali-nation
12:29.6
and bitterness and all of that
12:31.5
because of the American influence,
12:32.9
the interlude and everything that came after.
12:35.0
Now, so the conversation I was having with friends was,
12:38.7
you know, how are we going to rediscover
12:39.9
this sense of our Spanish past
12:41.9
and also that sense of alienation
12:43.8
we have towards the Spanish language.
12:45.2
In fact, I was telling my Spanish friends that
12:46.9
in the Philippines,
12:48.2
Spanish is treated like French.
12:49.7
It's like the language of the posh and elite.
12:52.4
And they were like super shocked.
12:54.6
like in the U.S.,
12:56.6
Spanish is the language of,
12:57.9
you know what I'm saying, right?
12:59.0
But to Philippines,
13:00.4
like the ones who speak Spanish
13:01.8
are like the elite and posh.
13:03.3
And then in that context,
13:05.0
your movie and project was discussed by friends.
13:08.2
I didn't know you were the director,
13:10.1
but the organization that we're mentioning was...
13:13.4
So I was wondering like,
13:14.7
hmm, is this going to be a religious movie
13:17.0
or historical movie
13:18.2
and how are they going to put it together?
13:19.5
So when I got to know it's actually you
13:21.3
who is overseeing it,
13:22.6
I felt very confident
13:23.5
because I know you're not,
13:24.6
a particularly religious person.
13:26.6
And I think the reason
13:27.6
I thought you were Atheneo
13:28.5
because I remember your TED talk
13:30.0
in Atheneo about what's holding...
13:33.5
So there was a kind of visual...
13:35.8
So we'll discuss that separately
13:37.1
because I want to also get your take
13:39.0
on the Philippine cinema as a general.
13:41.0
But now let's focus on this movie.
13:43.2
What was the thing that pushed you?
13:47.5
Where does this...
13:48.7
Because as a writer,
13:50.3
if you're going to write something,
13:51.9
okay, I just feel this issue was not...
13:54.1
was not properly discussed
13:55.3
or I can do a better job, right?
13:56.8
Or I have to refresh this
13:58.0
for a new generation, right?
13:59.5
You have to justify
14:00.4
putting two years of your life
14:02.1
into writing 400 pages or so, right?
14:04.2
I'm sure for a director like you,
14:05.9
this is also a very exacting job.
14:07.8
What is the thought process behind it, Pepe?
14:12.5
the core of it was
14:15.1
the little tidbit
14:21.2
that the term Filipino
14:24.1
the movement of these
14:25.0
Philippine-born priests.
14:28.8
people who were born here,
14:31.1
who were living here,
14:32.4
did not call ourselves Filipino.
14:34.0
We were called Indios.
14:36.1
The Spanish called us
14:39.3
The people who were born in Spain
14:40.5
were called Insulares.
14:42.2
Between us who were born here,
14:44.5
we would divide ourselves
14:45.7
or call ourselves according to our region.
14:47.3
So I am Tagalog, I am Visaya,
14:49.1
I am Sopano, I am Nicolano, etc.
14:52.2
But the term Filipino
14:54.4
the secularization movement
14:58.1
of which Goborza were a part of.
15:01.2
And then it sort of spread
15:05.0
to other sectors of society.
15:06.4
The Ilustrados that we call now,
15:10.1
they had begun to also imbibe the word.
15:13.8
And then it spread until the revolution, actually.
15:18.6
So that, to me, caught my fascination.
15:20.9
The idea that a word could spread,
15:25.5
And it could capture
15:27.6
the imagination of a people
15:30.2
and also unite a people.
15:32.1
Because we were very much, I think,
15:33.3
fragmented then in the sense that
15:35.5
the concerns of the Ilustrado class
15:40.5
were not shared by the concerns
15:42.2
of the Indios, quote-unquote,
15:44.1
and were not shared by the concerns
15:45.6
of people, local-born
15:48.5
who were in the military.
15:49.7
But when Goborza was killed,
15:53.5
and everybody saw that,
15:54.7
they had all converged
15:55.6
from these three priests
15:58.6
That's the injustice that they face.
16:01.9
It's the same injustice
16:02.7
that I face or can face.
16:05.4
And that was a unifying moment
16:07.9
for us as a country.
16:10.9
So that's the core
16:12.6
that inspired me with the film.
16:15.0
And Director Jokla,
16:19.5
if you go back to your own family,
16:21.2
I think your great-grandfather
16:22.4
was involved in this.
16:23.5
He was one of the first admirals.
16:26.5
Essentially, you can say
16:27.3
one of the first admirals
16:28.3
of the Philippines.
16:33.5
And if I'm not mistaken,
16:34.5
you guys are related
16:35.5
even to Marikina?
16:37.6
I mean, like the one of the
16:39.3
back-in-the-day centuries before.
16:41.6
I was just doing a background check
16:43.1
about you, Joknos.
16:44.7
But does your own family's background,
16:48.3
your great-grandfather's contribution
16:49.9
to the revolution,
16:51.1
did that also kind of contribute
16:52.4
to your sense of responsibility?
16:54.2
That you have to keep this going?
16:56.0
I'm sorry if that came
16:57.0
like a curveball,
16:58.6
I didn't also know that.
16:59.8
I knew your grandfather,
17:02.5
but I didn't know that
17:03.3
your great-great-grandfather
17:04.5
was such a central figure
17:06.3
in the Philippine Revolution.
17:12.8
I think statues of him in Visayas.
17:14.3
Yes, exactly, yeah.
17:15.8
I think the revolution in Visayas,
17:19.0
although he was from Batangas,
17:23.5
I would hear stories of him
17:27.4
but they were like,
17:29.8
more like light anecdotes.
17:32.8
I heard that he was so fat
17:35.9
that he got shot once in the stomach,
17:40.6
pero hindi tumagos
17:41.4
because he was so fat
17:43.0
so it didn't penetrate his internal organs.
17:48.2
it's only in recent years
17:49.7
that I also started to learn more about him.
17:54.8
we're talking about
17:55.2
Ananias Jokne Noblias,
17:58.2
Ananias, yeah, exactly.
17:59.5
This is your great-great-grandfather, yeah.
18:02.0
Yeah, I visited his grave
18:03.5
for the first time
18:07.9
For the first time this year, actually.
18:10.9
he has been buried
18:12.1
in the Taal Cathedral.
18:21.9
is a very beautiful,
18:23.9
I think it's one of the largest
18:24.8
in Southeast Asia.
18:27.2
It sits on a hill
18:28.3
overlooking the whole town of Taal
18:30.4
and then you can see the lake
18:33.0
We shot there, actually.
18:35.0
Go Gurza was shot in Taal.
18:36.9
As well as in Quezon
18:40.7
he is buried there
18:41.6
and so for the first time,
18:46.5
I'm also the sort of geeky out
18:48.0
on that part of history.
18:51.2
the reason I'm just throwing that
18:53.0
before we go back,
18:54.2
medyo all over the place
18:56.5
But I'm just telling you,
18:57.8
there's so many amazing stories.
19:02.4
and make movies about.
19:03.4
I was just looking at the news
19:08.1
who became a priest
19:09.5
coming to the Philippines
19:10.4
and now being considered
19:12.9
this is Dom Yosto Takayama.
19:19.8
Yeah, that's a movie.
19:21.1
I was just thinking.
19:23.6
he was, you know,
19:24.5
martyred in the Philippines.
19:26.6
so he was a former elite samurai.
19:29.8
He gives up his family,
19:30.9
comes over to the Philippines,
19:31.9
he becomes a priest,
19:33.0
he performs miracles,
19:34.1
and now Vatican is considering
19:40.1
those are like stories
19:41.3
that you cannot make up, man.
19:42.7
this is out of this world.
19:45.1
I have an audience.
19:47.3
How was he martyred?
19:49.4
If you're able to kill a samurai?
19:51.0
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:52.3
This is something.
19:53.7
So, sorry if I'm geeking over that.
19:57.4
before our gentleman,
19:59.6
Now, going back to this
20:07.5
you had a lot of handy.
20:08.6
Last time I checked,
20:10.7
Padre Borges was our age,
20:12.7
I think it was like 34, 35, right?
20:15.2
We're the same age,
20:18.1
how did you choose
20:20.5
How was it influenced
20:22.3
historical facts and details?
20:26.0
Borges and Zamora
20:34.9
One of the first things
20:35.5
that surprised me
20:39.5
when he was killed.
20:40.3
Because the popular edition,
20:42.2
which I think was drawn
20:44.2
shows the three priests
20:45.3
that they all look
20:47.4
But they're actually
20:52.3
almost like two generations
20:56.9
the casting began
21:00.3
all these characters
21:01.0
that we had in the script
21:02.0
and then we tried
21:02.9
as much as possible
21:06.9
first the three priests
21:10.4
it was really a matter
21:13.5
It was important for me
21:15.0
who were a little bit,
21:27.6
a sense of like being
21:33.8
I knew that we had
21:34.8
a smaller budget also
21:36.0
and we didn't have
21:37.1
to shoot the film.
21:38.1
We actually only shot
21:39.0
the film in 17 days,
21:42.0
for a historical film.
21:44.4
we didn't have that time
21:45.1
to do perspective.
21:45.8
you did the whole thing
21:46.8
in just over two weeks?
21:50.5
Just over two weeks.
21:52.3
It was spaced out
21:53.4
over the course of
21:56.8
Seven shooting weeks.
21:58.8
we didn't have the time
22:07.3
was important to me.
22:10.4
if you put his picture
22:14.3
I think he really does.
22:15.3
He looked like Burgos
22:16.7
but he also imbibes,
22:18.9
the spirit of Burgos
22:22.8
in Burgos' writings.
22:29.9
It started with those times
22:31.3
did believe them.
22:33.1
I really do love them
22:39.3
with a picture of Pelaez.
22:44.9
look like a movie star.
22:46.6
Pelaez is actually
22:53.8
someone that we owe
22:56.0
So, I'm happy that
22:56.6
he said yes to the film.
22:59.1
I had a Google sheet
23:00.2
with all of the characters' names
23:02.3
and all of the pictures
23:04.4
actors that we wanted to cast
23:07.9
pitch them one by one.
23:09.9
I did meet with them
23:12.5
what the film is about
23:13.5
and what the character is
23:19.9
that it wasn't going to be
23:22.3
It was going to be
23:23.9
quite challenging
23:29.0
Spanish dialogue.
23:30.0
They needed to commit
23:36.9
just not any Spanish,
23:38.0
the Spanish of the
23:39.7
during that time, right?
23:42.0
or the Filipino Spanish,
23:44.0
The Filipinized Spanish
23:45.0
also is quite different
23:45.9
from Spanish Spain, right?
23:49.1
Spanish language experts
23:50.6
who are going to have
23:51.3
their own praise.
23:53.1
that you put into it.
23:56.1
I'm still waiting
23:59.5
was also an important part
24:04.2
the Spanish governor general
24:06.9
or the Spanish friars
24:10.1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:13.1
authentically accurate.
24:16.7
we wanted to heighten
24:22.1
they were above us.
24:22.8
They were speaking
24:23.1
a different language.
24:25.2
the Filipino characters,
24:28.1
speaking Tagalog.
24:29.7
But it was very important
24:30.7
for us that the governor general,
24:32.2
the Spanish friars,
24:33.7
anything that had to do
24:41.0
That's a very important point,
24:44.9
you and I have been
24:45.6
all around the world
24:47.3
with all sorts of people.
24:50.2
the first time I was in Spain
24:52.2
and I was in this
24:53.0
quite a regal place,
24:54.7
I won't say exactly where.
24:55.9
It was a very regal place
24:57.0
and then the Spanish officials
24:59.2
and giving speeches
25:00.1
in this very sophisticated
25:06.6
the same non-white man
25:11.5
how would I feel?
25:12.8
And if I couldn't speak
25:13.6
Spanish exactly like them,
25:15.7
I'm still articulate
25:16.5
but I couldn't speak it
25:17.7
with that kind of,
25:19.9
posh Madrid accent.
25:21.7
and you could see
25:22.4
that they would look at me
25:23.3
as a colonial subject.
25:25.2
ang dali maging matapang ngayon,
25:27.5
we're in the woke era,
25:29.9
us the non-Caucasian,
25:32.0
non-Western people
25:34.0
and platform today
25:38.5
the level of courage
25:42.0
that you emphasized
25:42.6
that the language,
25:44.7
I won't say barrier
25:45.6
but the kind of language
25:57.2
did not speak Spanish
25:58.3
and could not understand
26:06.1
I actually do not know
26:13.7
it's in the film,
26:15.3
is that the king,
26:17.1
there was a decree,
26:21.7
Spanish must be taught
26:23.8
But it was the friars
26:31.3
I don't know what it is
26:33.0
what the difference
26:38.2
the locals were taught
26:43.1
the argument there is
26:44.9
the friars had an interest
26:46.3
in monopolizing the language
26:49.4
a sort of monopoly
26:51.3
Because if you don't know
26:53.3
you cannot fight it
26:55.6
the language of power,
26:58.7
that there was some tension
26:59.7
between the civilian,
27:01.1
secular administration
27:03.6
was actually quite liberal
27:05.8
by the Napoleonic Code
27:07.0
and the very conservative,
27:09.4
retrogressive friars
27:11.0
who had an interest
27:13.1
a certain medieval
27:14.4
feudalistic structure
27:15.8
in the Philippines,
27:16.8
Which is a very different
27:18.8
the rest of Latin America.
27:21.3
parang Philippines
27:22.6
it's a double solitude,
27:24.3
We're very dissimilar
27:26.0
Asian counterparts.
27:27.5
At the same time,
27:27.9
we're also very dissimilar
27:28.8
from Latin Americans,
27:29.9
a lot of whom had
27:31.7
of Spanish people
27:34.3
in the Spanish language
27:35.4
in ways that we're not.
27:37.4
our identity crisis
27:39.6
problems we're facing
27:40.7
could also go to that
27:42.5
exceptional situation
27:43.4
we had in the Philippines
27:44.3
in the late 19th century.
27:46.2
we had these revolutionaries.
27:48.4
we had these martyrs,
27:49.5
Against all odds.
27:54.3
You mentioned identity crisis.
27:58.0
a burning question
28:01.2
that I don't have
28:04.4
before we transition
28:05.9
to the other next part,
28:07.6
I want to get your ideas
28:08.8
on the Philippine cinema,
28:13.0
people should watch
28:14.7
not as a salesman.
28:17.1
you're the director.
28:20.4
I'm going to endorse it
28:22.2
Don't worry about it.
28:23.1
But why do you think
28:25.1
we should watch a movie
28:26.6
And what are the things
28:27.4
we should look forward to?
28:29.4
What is a unique thing
28:32.0
brings to this movie?
28:34.1
this is not the first
28:35.0
great historical movie.
28:36.3
we can have a debate
28:37.6
of General Luna movie.
28:39.4
my theory is that
28:40.4
it helped Duterte
28:44.6
and romanticizing
28:46.5
the costly strongman.
28:51.3
yung nagmumura siya,
28:55.1
suspecha dyan eh.
28:57.2
we have a recent history
28:59.0
over the past 10 years,
28:60.0
all of this historical
29:03.7
pop culture effect
29:04.7
and even political effect.
29:07.8
is there something unique here
29:09.1
about your approach
29:10.3
or what makes it unique?
29:11.4
And why should people
29:12.1
watch this as Filipinos?
29:15.4
I'll talk about it
29:16.7
from the perspective
29:27.3
of what we consider
29:34.2
entered the project
29:36.1
and I was talking
29:46.4
they're not heroes,
29:47.6
they are martyrs.
30:01.4
they were three priests
30:04.0
actually who never
30:04.7
fought on the battlefield
30:07.2
the person was trying to say.
30:12.9
there's still all that
30:13.5
speculation about,
30:15.4
there were these,
30:15.9
as I mentioned a while ago,
30:20.4
did or didn't write
30:23.6
Father Schumacher
30:24.3
who said that he did.
30:26.9
unassuming priests
30:31.4
a time of political upheaval,
30:33.1
they were not like,
30:38.0
we have to remember
30:43.3
an independent nation
30:46.7
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:51.0
to the revolution
31:00.0
and all the heroes
31:09.5
in the battlefield
31:10.1
and at the same time,
31:13.5
those revolutionary
31:16.6
when I first entered,
31:19.3
I also asked myself,
31:20.4
what's the hullabaloo
31:22.3
unassuming priests?
31:24.2
And then I started to read
31:30.6
that he dedicated
31:34.2
inspired by the three priests
31:35.3
that he dedicated
31:36.0
El Phili Busterismo
31:40.3
he also said that
31:41.2
without Comborza,
31:43.1
he says he would not
31:50.0
Something like that.
32:01.3
Katipunan actually
32:04.0
pieces of black cloth
32:08.1
in the membership rights
32:11.5
Believing that those
32:12.6
pieces of black cloth
32:15.8
cut from the sutanas
32:19.7
the more I started
32:21.3
and the more I dug
32:28.9
by these martyrs.
32:33.0
these three priests
32:36.8
individual heroism
32:44.8
from person to person.
32:47.7
not just of battle
32:48.8
but also of sacrifice.
32:52.0
very Filipino values.
32:56.5
more than the individual.
33:01.2
within Asian societies.
33:04.0
when I sort of thought,
33:09.6
that sort of angle
33:11.9
that's when I realized
33:14.9
were inspired by.
33:15.7
They were so inspired
33:30.7
that we're used to.
33:37.4
carry these little fires
33:40.8
have the responsibility
33:43.7
in this collective
33:44.5
story that we have
33:50.6
are not going to be
33:52.3
Sometimes it could cost us
33:55.6
but we should not quit.
34:00.3
of these challenges.
34:02.0
love about the story
34:04.3
my way of looking
34:05.2
is that two ways.
34:06.9
there's always a John the Baptist
34:09.0
before Jesus Christ,
34:10.1
There was a John the Baptist,
34:12.9
even if you're not
34:13.6
the final Messiah,
34:15.5
this very important figure,
34:17.3
That lays the foundation,
34:19.7
fulfillment of the prophecy.
34:22.4
of looking at things
34:23.6
even though certain individuals
34:24.6
were not the revolutionary per se,
34:26.9
the conscious political actors,
34:28.7
they helped create
34:30.8
the psychological,
34:31.6
and the political conditions
34:33.3
I don't think the Philippines
34:34.2
was the same place
34:35.4
after the execution
34:37.9
I think this affected
34:40.7
everyone who watched it,
34:41.9
everyone was shaken
34:43.2
because the injustice
34:45.1
the barbarity of the system
34:46.1
was really embodied
34:47.3
by what happened,
34:47.9
especially the emotional way
34:49.7
to their execution.
34:51.0
we're not against the system.
34:52.9
it just showed how ridiculous
34:54.3
that colonial system was.
34:56.7
but the second thing,
34:58.3
in a way you could say
34:59.0
they were accidental revolutionaries,
35:02.4
the greatest figures in history
35:04.0
were not consciously
35:05.4
trying to contribute
35:06.7
to a political outcome.
35:09.6
become inevitable revolutionaries
35:11.7
when they want to
35:12.2
change things from within.
35:13.6
we can talk about
35:14.1
French Revolution,
35:14.9
Russian Revolution.
35:19.1
as not only martyrs,
35:22.1
conscious revolutionaries,
35:23.5
at least there were
35:23.9
the accidental revolutionaries.
35:25.5
In a spiritual sense,
35:28.8
they created the conditions
35:30.8
for what would happen
35:32.0
in a decade or two
35:34.5
And I would also,
35:36.2
venture and call them
35:42.4
titles are called,
35:43.3
the term of the title
35:44.6
hero is something
35:47.8
gives us this feeling
35:52.4
of being Filipino,
35:55.9
stands for something
36:00.5
they should be called,
36:01.6
definitely be called heroes.
36:03.6
And then last point
36:09.0
Pepe Jokno o Vra,
36:11.6
what is the special touch?
36:12.8
Is it the cinematography?
36:14.2
Is it the emotional
36:16.8
because in fairness,
36:18.9
Cesar Montana's Rizal,
36:20.2
I think there was a lot of,
36:21.8
investment in the language,
36:23.2
in the authenticity.
36:24.0
I was very impressed
36:25.7
The emotionality of it,
36:27.4
Henna Luna movie,
36:30.0
the emotion of the moment,
36:33.9
everything was very sophisticated.
36:35.4
but I think one of the things
36:36.4
you're known for,
36:37.2
and also one of the things
36:38.0
that I see in the initial reviews
36:40.2
it's just this absolutely
36:41.2
stunning cinematography
36:46.0
of the injustices
36:48.2
the emotional depth
36:51.7
that Marti Donv-Gomborza
36:53.7
am I over-reading into this?
36:55.4
how do you see that?
36:57.9
what is your read on that
37:11.7
I don't know how to define
37:13.3
what my touch is,
37:15.3
cinematography has
37:22.3
agreed to do the cinematography.
37:24.4
Carlo is a good friend.
37:27.4
he done a lot of historical films,
37:29.9
he did Bonifacio,
37:33.6
one of my favorite,
37:35.3
cinematographers.
37:39.1
looking at his works
37:41.3
we did work on together.
37:47.5
very good working,
37:48.7
where at the beginning
37:53.7
the film is about.
38:01.9
our visual language
38:11.2
my production designer,
38:23.1
production perspective,
38:27.7
storytelling perspective,
38:29.5
what the messages
38:30.2
that we're trying
38:35.1
the images of fire
38:37.8
it was a present thing.
38:38.8
It wasn't in the script,
38:39.8
but it was in all
38:44.4
the little flames,
38:46.5
Carlo eventually used
38:47.9
in the cinematography.
38:49.9
there are some scenes
38:50.7
that are pretty dark,
38:51.3
especially in the
38:53.2
that's only lit by candles
38:54.2
because we wanted to show,
38:56.1
that these little flames
39:02.0
match of darkness.
39:03.5
And there are other scenes
39:04.3
where there may not be candles,
39:06.2
but the sky looks like flame.
39:08.7
so that was all informed
39:11.2
this message that we had
39:14.2
growing and growing
39:17.1
the nation that we are now.
39:21.3
what is the impact
39:22.7
you're hoping this movie to have
39:24.1
and what do you think,
39:25.4
the audience should look forward to
39:27.6
or three things perhaps
39:28.8
they should look forward to,
39:31.2
because I'm seeing already
39:32.0
a lot of people are saying
39:32.6
this is on their number one
39:33.7
list of things to watch,
39:35.2
in the coming days or so,
39:37.5
I'm really happy.
39:45.5
people who had watched the film,
39:49.1
and then they were saying
39:49.9
that at the end of the film,
39:50.7
people were crying,
39:55.9
I think it's like
39:56.3
my tita said her friend
39:59.3
and they had clapped
40:01.5
I just came from Megamall,
40:04.1
a while ago with,
40:05.3
Cedric and Chong,
40:10.4
who plays Paciano.
40:14.7
and then in SM Megamall,
40:15.9
we were able to catch
40:17.1
the end of the film.
40:18.6
at the end of the film,
40:21.4
because people were,
40:22.9
goosebumps talaga,
40:25.1
people were crying
40:26.6
at the end of the film.
40:31.1
as the credits were rolling
40:32.5
to say thank you.
40:34.2
And people really came forward,
40:36.7
we couldn't stop them,
40:37.7
but we had this isang nalay
40:40.8
couldn't stop us.
40:41.9
while we were talking,
40:45.9
she hugged Cedric
40:48.7
and she was crying
40:51.0
she was thanking him
40:52.1
for his performance
40:56.0
is like the best,
40:59.3
it's the best part
41:01.8
I've seen that kind of reaction.
41:06.2
Because this is supposed
41:07.2
to be a conversation too,
41:09.1
A conversation with the audience
41:10.4
and you want to start
41:11.4
a conversation after this.
41:13.4
speaking of which,
41:15.9
I don't want to get
41:18.7
but should we look forward
41:21.4
a beginning of a new
41:23.3
or a kind of a genre
41:26.5
because honestly,
41:30.9
properly understand
41:32.2
about where we come from.
41:33.3
All of this identity crisis,
41:35.2
political crisis,
41:36.2
all of these problems
41:37.0
we're having today
41:38.3
in the 21st century,
41:40.5
is because we don't
41:41.3
understand the root
41:42.0
or we don't go back
41:43.4
enough to the root
41:44.1
in ways that a lot
41:44.9
of our neighbors do,
41:46.2
you and I have gone
41:46.8
around the world,
41:50.8
whatever country,
41:51.5
a lot of them are
41:52.2
very deeply rooted
41:54.7
we have such a rich history,
41:57.1
but thankfully now,
41:58.3
finally we're having
41:59.1
this enriched approach
42:01.9
See this as part of
42:03.0
a beginning of a new era
42:04.4
of more historically,
42:07.7
historically relevant
42:08.6
and socially relevant
42:09.8
at the same time,
42:10.4
emotionally compelling
42:12.8
in the Philippines.
42:16.7
never stop producing
42:19.3
because it is a risk.
42:21.0
Not all historical films
42:23.3
have been successful,
42:28.1
just taking on this project
42:29.5
and combined with the fact
42:31.8
that it's more expensive
42:33.6
a historical film
42:34.8
because you have to do
42:35.4
the sets and the locations
42:37.8
and do a lot of work
42:39.5
to get back to the era.
42:48.1
will also definitely
42:51.1
I was thinking a lot
42:51.7
about this actually recently
42:56.4
and a few months ago,
42:59.6
we were being toured
43:04.5
It was the original
43:07.1
before it was moved out.
43:09.7
so it's now in Rome.
43:17.5
about a politician
43:21.2
Am I getting it right?
43:23.9
Yes, yes, Cavour.
43:25.1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:34.9
was signed in Torino
43:35.9
and then from there
43:37.4
the ruling family
43:41.8
And once they had done so,
43:45.1
quote from Cavour is,
43:47.8
now we made Italy,
43:49.7
next we have to make
43:53.8
It's a national project.
43:55.1
Yeah, it's a project.
43:56.2
Yeah, it's a project.
43:59.2
It's an ongoing project.
44:00.6
Like, we tend to think of,
44:01.9
we tend to look at countries
44:03.0
and think that they
44:07.5
didn't work for their nationhood.
44:10.4
the truth is they did.
44:11.3
They had to construct it.
44:12.3
They had to build it
44:15.1
the Italian language
44:16.3
I think that we know now
44:21.5
of the last century.
44:23.7
Like, it was a language
44:24.6
they all had to learn.
44:25.5
Which reminds me of
44:26.3
Bahasa Indonesia,
44:27.8
which I think they chose,
44:29.0
if I'm not mistaken,
44:32.9
their national language
44:33.7
in order to foster unity.
44:35.8
Even just like things like
44:41.4
it's a modern creation
44:43.0
that their government
44:45.1
the same with the Germans
44:47.3
and the same with German
44:49.7
and the same thing with,
44:51.9
look at Spain today.
44:53.7
it's not a Finnish project.
44:56.5
still want to separate
44:57.3
from Spain, right?
44:58.2
They're still Basque, right?
44:59.7
Where a lot of Filipinos,
45:00.7
including, you know,
45:01.2
my Foronda family name,
45:02.3
that's a Basque name.
45:04.8
Madre España, supposedly,
45:06.1
it's still a national project
45:07.5
that is incomplete.
45:08.9
I think we Filipinos
45:09.7
tend to have this romanticized idea
45:13.3
mga kapitbayin natin
45:14.3
ng mga ibang bansa,
45:15.9
with the notion of a nation.
45:18.6
It comes with sacrifice.
45:19.8
It comes with investment.
45:21.1
It comes with emotional attachment.
45:23.1
It comes with people
45:25.1
sharing our ideas
45:26.4
and getting ideas
45:27.4
and debating about it.
45:30.4
is an evolving project,
45:33.7
Creating Filipinos
45:34.6
is an evolving project
45:35.4
and we are a young country,
45:40.2
what are the stories
45:41.0
that we tell each other?
45:44.8
describe ourselves
45:46.6
That is all part of
45:50.2
Filipino identity.
45:51.5
if we don't have it now,
45:58.3
and that's the reason why,
46:01.1
I always have this problem
46:05.1
look at the first Filipinos,
46:06.3
a lot of them were Creole.
46:07.1
Look at Manuel Quezon,
46:10.1
our Commonwealth President.
46:12.1
Look at a lot of our Ilustrados,
46:14.2
part Chinese Mestizo,
46:17.9
just being Malayan Tagalog
46:19.2
speaking to be a Filipino,
46:21.3
because from the very beginning,
46:22.5
we were a very cosmopolitan,
46:25.1
and many different
46:26.3
quote-unquote races
46:30.3
of the Filipino nation,
46:31.3
especially considering
46:33.5
if you look at even the Gumburs,
46:35.0
Padre Borges himself,
46:35.9
I think the father was
46:37.8
Had Espanol blood
46:39.1
and part Cordillera
46:41.4
if I'm not mistaken.
46:42.5
I'm in Baguio right now
46:44.6
a lot of them were
46:45.4
from very mixed ethnic
46:48.0
even racial background.
46:56.2
the Filipino is not one
46:57.6
or the other thing.
46:59.1
It's really all of these things
47:01.6
In the last 10 minutes,
47:02.7
I want to go back
47:07.8
a film cinema guy?
47:12.2
you're too humble for that.
47:16.3
That's why I made
47:17.0
a mistake in Ateneo.
47:20.3
dun sa ugat ng problema
47:21.9
sa Philippine cinema.
47:24.9
ng cinema sa Pilipinas?
47:26.3
Bakit tayo napag-iwanan
47:27.5
ng mga ibang bansa?
47:29.3
Korea and all of that?
47:30.6
At ang idea mo is that
47:31.5
hindi ito sa kakulangan
47:33.6
hindi ito sa kakulangan
47:37.0
Marami tayong talento.
47:39.3
and more importantly,
47:42.0
since you gave that talk,
47:43.2
this is like a decade ago
47:44.2
if I'm not mistaken,
47:46.1
how have things changed
47:48.7
And at the same time,
47:51.0
all of these amazing
47:52.0
Filipino movies coming up.
47:54.1
the revival of OPM.
47:55.9
So, what's going on here?
47:58.8
If not the government,
48:01.6
a little bit about that?
48:03.9
I think things have changed
48:11.6
was lowered from 30%
48:17.2
where that remaining
48:18.4
10% would be waived.
48:20.3
struck down by the Supreme Court
48:30.7
or tax incentives.
48:34.8
we've seen more and more
48:35.5
films getting made.
