00:22.8
So he looked into the franchise model of Tapioca Express.
00:27.3
Then, sabi niya, parang ayaw ko yung franchise model.
00:31.2
So sabi ko, we have to be different.
00:33.0
So how do we be different?
00:34.9
I said, why don't we sell Filipino flavors?
00:38.1
Like, I love ube.
00:39.8
Ube was my vanilla growing up.
00:41.4
So let's introduce something different.
00:43.6
So nagiging passion project niyo na nga.
00:45.3
Yeah, naging passion project namin na let's open the shop in Chino Hills where we live.
00:50.2
Kaya ba natin po!
00:51.4
Favorite dessert sa Cafe 86?
00:55.4
Welcome to the Paco's Place.
00:59.8
Visit abateservices.com for fast medical transcription service.
01:04.7
This podcast episode is brought to you by AB Music Creative.
01:08.3
And the podcast will begin in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.
01:13.9
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to Paco's Place.
01:17.2
Our guest, proudly, inantay talaga namin to.
01:20.5
Big warm round of applause, Ginger D. Mapaso.
01:27.3
As in talaga, inaabangan kita sa labas kanina.
01:30.4
Tinitinan ko kung anong baon mo eh.
01:33.7
Nagparamdam na si Michael kung anong gusto.
01:36.7
I came to deliver.
01:39.1
Cafe 86, you know what?
01:42.0
That's a place wherein talagang pag pinag-uusapan pa lang namin, Ginger,
01:48.1
nag-iisip na kami ng gusto namin ordering like the best yung halo-halo, you know.
01:54.9
Tapos yung pinatikim mo sa amin na ube.
01:58.3
Yeah, that's pinaka-bestseller yan.
02:00.5
When you were young, was being an entrepreneur on the agenda?
02:06.4
Mapagbigay lang ako ng baked goods noon.
02:08.6
Like, mahilig magluto, then my mom would make me bake for Christmas para sa mga kliyente niya.
02:15.4
To be an entrepreneur was never part of the brain works.
02:20.3
How many stores as of this taping?
02:23.3
Corporate stores are about 10.
02:27.9
All over the United States?
02:29.2
All over Southern California.
02:31.0
Southern California pa lang yan?
02:34.2
So the tri-state?
02:37.1
So hindi pa tayo gumagapang ng Midwest?
02:39.1
Hindi pa tayo pumupunta ng East Coast?
02:43.4
This is owned by all Filipino?
02:46.0
My husband and I.
02:47.2
Shout out to James nga pala.
02:48.9
Paano nagsimula tong Cafe 86?
02:51.3
So Cafe 86 started mga 2014.
02:54.9
Back then, James was working.
02:56.2
He was doing a corporate job, selling government computers.
02:59.9
Ako, stay-at-home mom, nag-aalaga ng dalawang bata.
03:03.5
Saan kayo nakatira nito?
03:06.0
Yeah, Chino Hills.
03:07.2
At that point, napag-usapan na na parang pagod na siya doing his corporate job
03:11.5
and wanted to have something of his own, our own.
03:14.5
And at that time, mahilig talaga siya pumunta ng car meet.
03:19.3
Because he drives an AE86, a Toyota Corolla.
03:22.3
So that's kind of giving you a clue on why it's called Cafe 86.
03:25.6
So that's kind of giving you a clue on why it's called Cafe 86.
03:26.2
So that's kind of giving you a clue on why it's called Cafe 86.
03:27.7
So he did like going to all these car meets here in San Gabriel.
03:31.9
Teka, nabila ako ng windang. Sorry, may ADHD moment.
03:34.9
James, nasa'yo pa ba yung Toyota na to?
03:37.4
Naka-set up pa rin?
03:38.9
Sheesh, naghahanap ako ng 77 na SR.
03:42.0
Ah, siya talangin mo.
03:43.2
Ah, siya talangin mo.
03:48.2
Sorry, sorry, ha. Sorry, sorry, Ginger.
03:50.4
Kailangan ka rin tayo ng episode na si James naman.
03:53.4
Okay, okay. Back to regular programming.
03:57.4
So yeah, so mahilig siyang mag-attend ng car meets.
03:59.7
And then he said, you know what?
04:00.9
I think good idea na mag-open tayo ng boba shop.
04:04.0
Maybe let's franchise something.
04:05.9
So at that point, I think he was looking into Tapioca Express.
04:10.1
Eh ikaw, anong pumapasok sa isip mo?
04:12.8
Tanda mo, housewife ka nito, di ba?
04:14.7
Because yun ang mga anak ko.
04:16.9
So I'm like, are you serious?
04:18.6
Sabi niya, hindi, kaya natin yan, madali lang yan.
04:20.6
So let's try to franchise.
04:22.3
So he looked into the franchise model of like,
04:27.7
And then, sabi niya, parang ayoko yung franchise model.
04:30.9
While he was doing this, what was on your mind?
04:33.3
Anong iniisip mo?
04:34.1
Parang sana passing fancy lang to.
04:37.7
Sana magising siya.
04:41.6
Pero like, pinersto talaga niya.
04:43.5
Sabi niya, I think instead of doing a franchise,
04:46.1
let's try to figure out how to do it on our own.
04:49.7
How hard could it be?
04:51.7
Now, yung anxiety mo, kumusta naman nung iniisip niya to?
04:54.6
Medyo nawindang ako nun.
04:55.8
But, you know, at the same time, I get what he was trying to do.
04:59.5
So, you know, sabi ko, bakit naman lumipas to?
05:03.1
So we went ahead gawa ng business plan.
05:06.9
So pinagbigyan mo lang.
05:08.1
In other words, sige, kamutin natin yung kate mo.
05:09.9
Kamutin natin yung kate mo.
05:11.1
Gawa ng business plan, seryoso siya.
05:14.1
I had to work with him on that.
05:16.7
So I go, oh my God.
05:20.5
Okay, so in other words, hindi niyo produkto?
05:26.1
But then I said, since ako ang in-charge dito, let's make it different.
05:30.1
So ikaw ang sinangkalan niya talaga.
05:32.6
Sabi ko, kung gagawa tayo ng concept neto,
05:34.8
it has to be different from the million other boba shops that's out there selling the same thing.
05:39.8
So in other words, nahook ka niya kasi once na nag-suggest ka, involved ka na eh.
05:47.8
Vested na yung interest ko.
05:49.0
Yes. Good job, James.
05:51.0
Sabi ko, we have to be different.
05:53.0
So, how do we be different?
05:55.0
I said, why don't we sell Filipino flavors?
05:58.2
Like, I love ube.
06:00.2
Ube was my vanilla growing up.
06:01.4
So let's introduce something different.
06:04.4
So let's do ube milkshakes and calamansi iced teas and all that.
06:08.4
So now, this was a partnership na dati kinakamot mo lang yung gusto niyang gawin.
06:14.4
Ngayon, ikaw na nagsasuggest.
06:16.4
So nagiging passion project niyo ng dalawa.
06:19.4
Yeah, naging passion project namin na let's open the shop in Chino Hills where we live.
06:23.4
Fifteen-seater lang naman.
06:25.0
Pupunuin lang natin yung fifteen seats.
06:28.4
We were supposed to, ang goal was, I remember the business plan said I think to sell like $700 a day.
06:36.4
What was the exposure to start this? How much?
06:38.6
Back then, I think it was...
06:40.6
And now, 2014 na to, no?
06:41.8
2014. I think mga nasa 150.
06:47.4
So in other words, 150 na inipon niyo o ilo-loan niyo?
06:52.4
So that's really commitment.
06:55.2
So we started that. Ang goal namin was to have a venue for him to have his regular car meets.
07:04.2
So in his head, you know, if we have a weekly car meet, kaya ito.
07:09.2
So kailangan may parking space.
07:11.2
Oo. Laki ng parking. Big part of opening a Cafe 86 is big parking.
07:16.2
Because without the car meet, it's not a Cafe 86.
07:20.2
You know, big, that's the heart and soul of it.
07:23.1
Big, that's the heart and soul of Cafe 86. It all began because of the car meets.
07:27.1
700 cups a day or items a day?
07:35.1
So that's a lot of boba cups.
07:37.1
Magkano ba boba? $3?
07:38.1
Back then, nasa 325 kami nagsimula eh.
07:41.1
That 2014. So we were about to open with just the drinks and sandwiches and then about maybe a week prior to opening, sabi niya, wala tayo papakain.
07:51.1
Like, what do you mean?
07:51.9
Ayun na yung boba. Nguyain nila. Diba?
07:54.9
Sabi niya, no. Like, desserts. Sabi niya, you know, you bake because I bake. That was my thing.
08:02.9
Sabi niya, maybe you should try to bake something.
08:06.9
Na-Jedi. May tikka-mpucha.
08:08.9
So sabi niya, bake ka. Sabi ko, again, sabi ko, I can't bake anything normal. I'm gonna bake something different.
08:17.9
Which was, again, ube.
08:19.7
So the first two items that we made back then was, actually the three, top three was ube cinnamon rolls, the ube truffle, the original version, and then Thai tea brownies.
08:33.7
Thai tea brownies.
08:35.7
Yeah. Back then in 2014, nobody made any of those things. Because we checked. We googled everything to make sure it's all original to Cafe 86. So ube cinnamon rolls, ube truffles, and Thai tea brownies.
08:49.5
Hindi. Unfortunately, food is non-proprietary.
08:54.5
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
08:55.5
You know, it's fine.
08:56.5
Nasa, nasa ano yan? Ingredients yan eh.
08:57.5
Nasa, yeah, I mean.
08:58.5
Okay, so tatlo, okay, flagship, Thai tea brownies, original ube truffles. Ano yung isa pa?
09:05.5
Ube cinnamon rolls.
09:06.5
Ube cinnamon rolls. So wala yung mga popcorn chicken, wala yung mga fried tofu, wala yung mga ganun.
09:11.5
Wala, wala yun. Wala, wala. Regular sweets lang talaga.
09:14.5
So we opened that day with the big caramel.
09:18.5
And then we met of the 86ers. Dami nila. Couple of hundred people came by.
09:23.5
Eh kami as a new business, we're zoned in on only trying to make the business work.
09:29.5
Wala kaming iniisip kung di.
09:30.5
Pali pa rin lang to.
09:31.5
Pali pa rin lang to. And make sure that we're able to, you know, pay the bills.
09:36.5
So unbeknownst to us, like throughout the weeks, papansin namin the foot traffic was growing.
09:41.5
And then naturally you ask, saan kayo galing? Like you can't all be just from Chino Hills.
09:47.3
Where'd you, you know, how'd you find out about us? Where'd you drive from?
09:51.3
So we were starting to hear things like, we drove all the way from Pasadena, which is like too far from Chino Hills for you to drive for a drink.
10:00.3
Oh, we came from Pasadena. Oh, we came from LA. We came from Glendale. We came from Cerritos.
10:06.3
Sabi namin, paano nila nilalaman?
10:09.3
And then people would mention, you're on Instagram.
10:12.3
Back then, di pa kami active on social media. Sabi lang.
10:16.1
So Instagram, you guys have not seen what's going on? Sabi namin, no.
10:20.1
Then we started to zone in on social media like, oh shit, like it, things are going viral.
10:26.1
And back then, the concept of influencers was also so new.
10:31.1
So hindi din namin kilala sino sila, right?
10:34.1
So they'd come, you know, vlog, do a post, and then people would come.
10:40.9
So the growth that we experienced in like, I was, because the baking was not part of the original business plan,
10:48.9
I was baking out of my house.
10:51.9
So walang komisari?
10:53.9
Wala! Sa bahay namin, I had a single door oven, kasya lang dalawang tray.
10:58.9
What? So parang ano, parang lumalabas na?
11:01.9
Parang joke eh. Like, what do you mean you want me to bake 100 pieces that time?
11:08.7
It's like unreal that he's asking me to make 150 cinnamon rolls.
11:12.7
I'm like, are you kidding? Dalawang tray? Anim lang kasya sa isang tray.
11:15.7
So eventually, we had to like, he had to buy like a second oven.
11:19.7
And then yung living room namin naging komisari kitchen. Naging warehouse.
11:23.7
Are you still in the same house?
11:24.7
Yes, we're still in the same house.
11:27.7
Naging komisari kitchen, naging warehouse. And it was just unreal na, oh my God, di na kami natutulog.
11:34.7
How many months from the day, from the opening?
11:37.5
Did we get that oven? Four months maybe?
11:40.5
Oh my God. Anong goal sa business plan?
11:43.5
Were you supposed to make revenue or profit within six months, three months? Ano ba?
11:50.5
I think the ROI was expected in like, I would say three years maybe?
11:55.5
Three years? Wow. Super conservative.
11:57.5
Like, sana mapuno yung 15 seats, you know?
12:01.5
But yeah, like I said, it got busier and busier to the point that I think,
12:07.3
before we hit the first year, maybe at month eight, we were already considering opening Pasadena.
12:13.3
And James was still working?
12:15.3
James was still working. Full-time job. After his full-time job, he would come to work at the cafe.
12:22.3
Kasi kami naman, me and my niece who opened the store with us would work from opening till the time James would come,
12:29.3
which was like six. Which means it's my turn to go home, take the kids home, and bake.
12:36.1
Yeah. So uuwi kami ng niece ko at six. Feed the kids, homework, ligo, bedtime.
12:42.1
And then we bake till about mga three in the morning.
12:45.1
Okay. I'm gonna pick your brain because it sounds easy when we're talking about it.
12:51.1
Now let's go deep by, I want to know what was the state of mind when you started this, while this was happening?
13:01.1
Kasi walang off switch to it.
13:03.9
150 na loan, $150,000 guys sa kayo na mag-compute nun, against the house, right?
13:09.9
This has to come back in some way or another.
13:13.9
It was survival mode, I think. And just really trying to make sure that we're able to deliver the goods.
13:19.9
And there were kids involved.
13:20.9
And then be a parent. So you can imagine the laban, the struggle because trying to maintain the business, a new business,
13:28.9
trying to maintain a marriage with someone you're trying to fight with every day.
13:33.7
But still trying to maintain the quality of life for two kids.
13:37.7
How old were they at the time?
13:39.7
Leah was, I think she was five. Jaden was about seven.
13:45.7
So pag naglalak ka sa pantry na ikaw lang mag-isa, anong conversation ang meron mo sa sarili mo during your quiet time?
13:50.7
Bakit namin na ginawa to?
13:51.7
It was really like that.
13:52.7
Yeah. Is this worth it? Kaya ba namin to? Why are we opening a second one?
13:58.7
How do you overcome stress?
14:00.5
How do you overcome self-doubt? Yung mga ganun.
14:04.5
He will be the one to overcome the self-doubt. Because I would always be the one questioning, like, why?
14:10.5
Are you sure? Kaya ba natin? But he would always say, yes, kaya natin.
14:15.5
So how important is it, and this is para sa mga couples, to involve your spouse in every decision making?
14:23.5
Well, it's got to be a team, you know, it's teamwork. So it has to be mutually agreed upon.
14:30.3
Kasi if it's, hindi kayo mag-agree, how will the team work, right?
14:34.3
So paano corporate meeting yung dalawa?
14:36.3
Paano corporate meeting? Sabi ko, so anak sa'yo, bro. Nasa bahay ka, nasa banyo ka. So work kasama pa kita.
14:45.3
Tapos, okay, so story number two, bumukas.
14:50.3
In less than a year?
14:51.3
By 2015, we opened Pasadena.
14:54.3
Oh my God, one year?
14:56.3
And then with Pasadena, then we would get that same cycle of people.
15:00.1
People walking in and saying, you're so far from where I live, we wish you would open closer to us.
15:05.1
May kitchen na to?
15:06.1
At this point, we opened a small commissary kitchen.
15:10.1
So in other words, commissary is Pasadena na nagde-deliver na sa Chino?
15:14.1
No, the commissary remained in Chino.
15:17.1
Kasi that's where we live.
15:18.1
Okay, main commissary.
15:19.1
Talagang diyan, we wanted to plant it in Chino kasi tiga dun kami.
15:22.1
So now the commissary was delivering to Chino and Pasadena.
15:27.1
Pero hindi na sa living room?
15:28.9
Hindi na puno ng harina yung bahay namin.
15:33.9
Puno talaga ng harina.
15:35.9
I can only imagine.
15:37.9
And then yun na nga, that same pattern of foot traffic mentioning that they wish they would open.
15:42.9
So 2014, so Goldilocks was still around while you guys were making pasties?
15:49.9
Yeah, Goldilocks was still there.
15:51.9
But you know, we always considered ourselves really different.
15:54.9
We have a lot of respect for the more OGs.
15:57.7
Because that's something that we don't really want to touch.
16:00.7
And we respect that and we appreciate and we still support that.
16:03.7
Kumaga yung lane na yun, hindi nyo pinuntahan yun. Dito tayo.
16:05.7
That's not my wheelhouse.
16:07.7
So we really wanted to go a different route where it's a little different but because laki akong Pilipinas,
16:13.7
I know what Ube was like and I know exactly what I ate back then, yung mountain made na Ube halaya na galing sa patio.
16:21.7
That was my biggest inspiration.
16:22.7
Diba? Good shepherd na po siya. Patayan yun.
16:26.5
So my wife is Kapampangan and I've seen…
16:29.5
So I've seen you guys do the halaya thing. It's not a joke, right?
16:33.5
Yeah. We still do that to this day at the bakery.
16:37.5
Sabi na nga ba eh. Kasi nung tinikman ko yung Ube, sabi ko totoo to, hindi ito yung powder na…
16:44.5
Well, you know, you could use the powder but make halaya out of it.
16:48.5
No, what I mean is yung, alam mo yun yung powder na nalagay mo yung tubig, aal sa baba.
16:52.5
So lahat ng… most of our recipes are based on Ube halaya and that's really important.
16:56.5
For us to be able to do that. So ngayon naghahanap kami ng robot na magmimix ng halaya.
17:02.5
Ando na tayo ha sa robot na…
17:04.5
Okay. So Pasadena, 2015.
17:06.5
2015 Pasadena, then we got that same demand, same traffic.
17:10.5
So exponential na ang growth nito.
17:11.5
Yeah. Well, I guess you can call it exponential.
17:13.5
Because within the next year, we were opening yung artesian location namin.
17:17.5
So it seemed like with every year, we were pretty much opening a new location.
17:22.5
Okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna put…
17:25.3
James sa spotlight because siya ang operations.
17:29.3
How was the system created? Like Starbucks, nung ginawa yan, di ba? May sistema, replication yan eh, di ba?
17:36.3
So papano nyo… and I'm sure may push and pull na hindi, ito ang system. Hindi, ito ang system.
17:43.3
But how did you come up with the system without revealing what the system is?
17:48.3
No, it's a lot of really trial and error. And I think to this day with the growth that we're experiencing,
17:54.1
we're still learning, but I think within the past nine years, medyo nagamay na namin yung, you know,
18:01.1
the system that works for us. And a big part of that is James.
18:05.1
Because my brain is not organized. I am the creative.
18:08.1
So siya ang nagtitrain ng staff, lahat?
18:11.1
Well, in the beginning, depende. I'll train the bakers in front of the house, but he's more on the back-end talaga siya.
18:20.1
Back-end operations. So that's his wheelhouse.
18:22.9
Nandun yung train of thought niya, yung organization niya, the numbers. I embed it in math.
18:27.9
So 2016, Artesia is born.
18:31.9
James is still working with the government.
18:33.9
No more na. Okay.
18:34.9
2016… 2015, he left. Mid-2015. He said, I need to focus on the cafe.
18:41.9
What was the conversation nung time na yan?
18:44.9
Were you like, go? Or kaya ba natin?
18:47.9
Kaya ba natin to?
18:49.9
Ganun talaga, no?
18:50.9
Yeah. Pero it was necessary.
18:52.9
It… it… hirap na ako na, you know, me lang and my niece with the kids were…
18:58.9
And he was also having a hard time kasi keeping the day job and then going straight to work for the cafe was just taking a toll.
19:07.9
So he had to pick. He had to make that choice. So it's… he needed to go 100% in on the cafe.
19:14.9
James, was it hard to go 100% in?
19:21.7
I was like, eh, you know, walang ano? Wala kang net?
19:26.7
Oo. Yun pala yun, di ba?
19:29.7
In other words, the business had to work at that point.
19:33.7
Which is better, though.
19:34.7
Yeah. We were all in at that point. Like, you have no choice. You're all in.
19:38.7
Bayad na utang at this point? Hindi pa rin?
19:40.7
Just recirculated back into the business. That's how it works. I mean, the operating expenses, di mo na maintindihan.
19:47.7
So, you know, 2014, mag-ano na, no? Magte-10 years na…
19:51.7
Have you hit critical mass? Feeling mo o hindi pa?
19:55.7
Hindi ko pa… hindi ko pa alam sa ang utak ko ngayon. I'm still at the point where medyo confident na ako pero I also always still like, eh, are you sure?
20:05.7
Ganun pa rin ako eh. I'm always the doubting one but he always pulls through. So…
20:10.7
Nagbe-bake ka pa rin?
20:11.7
Hindi na. But when I'm needed, I'm in there.
20:14.7
Okay. Question. Taste buds mo ang ano yan eh. QA niyan eh.
20:19.7
Para pag hindi akma sa lasa?
20:21.7
Oh, we pull it. We pull it out of, you know, whatever it is. We stop and we figure out bakit hindi ganun. It shouldn't be.
20:29.7
You don't roll up your sleeves going, say, ako na! Ako na!
20:33.7
No. We have to all figure it out together.
20:37.7
Kailangan lahat matuto mag-troubleshoot. But it's, you know, the problem nowadays is not in the bakit hindi lasang gube. That's not a problem.
20:45.7
Because we know what's in there. It's like things you can't really… baking is so funny because it's such a science na…
20:52.7
Exact science that if the person you're training hindi magaling mag-measure or hindi siya very organized with the mise en place, which is the preparation, then, you know…
21:03.7
Fail yun. Big time.
21:05.7
Yeah. So it's easy to tell, like, the bakers will come to me, yung cookie ganito itsura. Ano kayo nangyari? Sabi ko, alam ko yung nangyari. Hindi ka nag-measure na tama, girl.
21:17.5
So things like that na nasa sanay ko na. And it's teachable. So natututo na rin yung management team to kind of detect the problems.
21:25.5
At this point, hindi na yung flagship pagkain ang binibenta nyo, di ba? Dumagdag na to at this point, right?
21:32.5
Marami na, yeah. There's a lot of… there's a bunch of new items. Right now, we stayed at like…
21:37.5
Kailan dumating ang halo-halo? Kasi putya, yung halo-halo na yan…
21:41.5
Yung mekus-mekus na yan is kakaiba yan. Paano pumasok?
21:45.5
What year did we decide to do halo-halo?
21:50.5
That was very gutsy. Ngayon, you're going into common ground, di ba?
21:55.5
Sabi mo, that wasn't your wheelhouse. Dito tayo sa mga atin, ganyan-ganyan.
22:00.5
Ano yung ginawa ni Steve Jobs? Lalabas tayo ng mp3 player pero hindi lang basta mp3 player. We'll call it the iPod.
22:07.5
Di ba? Kayo, naglabas kayo ng halo-halo. Pero, like binibenta sa akin ni Mike yung idea.
22:12.5
Ito tayo mag-halo-halo. Bro, ang halo-halo is halo-halo. No, no, no, no, no. Ito iba to.
22:17.5
I will give James full credit. Well, no. I will give, let me rephrase.
22:23.5
I will give James 75% credit for the halo-halo recipe because he was the one who really tweaked that recipe.
22:30.5
Ako lang yung idea of the structure.
22:32.5
But did you want to do halo-halo? Whose idea was it to do halo-halo?
22:35.5
Actually, I will say, I've been telling him to do halo-halo for years. But he was like, no, it's not our wheelhouse.
22:43.5
Until one summer na ang init.
22:46.3
At kailangan natin ng halo-halo.
22:48.3
People should really visit the store and try the halo-halo kahit anong weather.
22:53.3
But please tell me the origin of the famous halo-halo.
22:57.3
I think the origin of that halo-halo was really just based on creating a halo-halo with the things that we only like.
23:05.3
Which is, we don't like beans. So tinanggalan namin siya ng beans.
23:10.3
It only has our favorite parts of halo-halo which is yung nata de coco. He loves that.
23:16.3
I like jackfruit, yun lang ka.
23:19.3
And then, we'll remove the beans kasi kadire.
23:23.3
Hindi naman kadire, no offense.
23:25.3
But it's just not my thing. Plus utot siya ng madaming madaming.
23:31.3
So, it's for my air quality.
23:35.3
So, yung confidence mo sa halo-halo, sinabi mo 75% of the halo-halo recipe was James.
23:40.3
So, nung finally i-present niyo na to market, were you confident na ito patatok to?
23:45.1
Sabi ko, we wanted to make it work where we were already keeping inventory of certain items at the shop.
23:52.1
So, we wanted to make halo-halo based on what we already have.
23:56.1
So, take out the beans, put boba.
24:02.1
Alam mo, naiinis na ako ngayon. Dapat nagdala kayong halo-halo eh.
24:09.1
Tapos, pinipig was, I kind of fought on the pinipig.
24:13.9
Kasi gustong gusto ko ng pinipig.
24:15.9
Tsaka classic yan, di ba?
24:16.9
But ayaw na ayaw ni James ng soggy pinipig.
24:19.9
Kailangan crispy.
24:21.9
So, sabi niya, alisin natin yung pinipig.
24:23.9
Sabi ko, fine, frosted flakes.
24:25.9
Which is like a two-fold thing because when you eat it na bago, it's nice and crunchy.
24:31.9
But even when it sits, it's like yung childhood mo of the soft cereal.
24:37.9
And it becomes like cereal milk.
24:39.9
And nag-a-add yun sa taste.
24:43.9
So, I think that's what it is.
24:44.9
Plus, our main, the body of the halo-halo is not your shaved eyes.
24:48.9
So, that's the James part where he developed that.
24:51.9
And then he was the one who conceptualized the upside down.
24:55.9
Because yun talaga eh, di ba?
24:57.9
Para hindi, para punong-puno ka agad.
25:00.9
Ibes na grand finale.
25:02.9
Bawat subo, malasa na.
25:04.9
Hindi mo na kailangan masyadong halo-haluin.
25:07.9
So, it's a multi-layered dessert na you could eat in so many ways.
25:13.9
Mixed up, on its own, leche flan first, ice cream first.
25:17.9
Alam mo guys, if you're watching this and you're here in California or in Nevada or Arizona,
25:24.9
now would be a good time to pause the podcast.
25:27.9
Punta na kayo sa Cafe ATC.
25:30.9
Ituloy nyo rin yung podcast na to.
25:33.9
So, tapos nun, nung ayan na, dumadami na.
25:36.9
At this point na kami ni-stores na in 2018.
25:41.9
Apat na corporate?
25:42.7
Apat na corporate.
25:43.7
Yeah. Apat na yan.
25:44.7
And the reason why we're saying corporate is because ito yung pag-aari nyo.
25:48.7
Out of the 33, 23 ang franchised.
25:54.7
I think if I'm counting right, yes.
25:56.7
So, seems like every year we were opening.
25:58.7
But this time, ano na, Vegas has opened.
26:02.7
So, that was like so scary for us.
26:05.7
Pero that's a no-brainer eh.
26:07.7
Kasi, butya naman.
26:09.7
The Vegas market has been very kind to us.
26:11.5
Corporate ang mayari nun.
26:13.5
That's ours, yeah.
26:14.5
We really love that store because it allows people who, like, who live in the East Coast, in the Midwest, or even Canada.
26:24.5
Kasi nagbabakasyon lahat sa Vegas.
26:27.5
So, those who are curious, who end up going to Vegas, talagang pupunta sa cafe to try it.
26:32.5
May Hawaii na, wala pa?
26:34.5
Wala pa eh. Kasi tatawid ka ng dagat eh.
26:37.5
Alam mo, sa Honolulu, may Magnolia House dun.
26:39.5
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:42.3
No, we've heard of, I've never been to Hawaii, pero narinig na namin yung Magnolia Treats.
26:47.3
Na may shaved ice, mga gano'n gano'n gano'n.
26:50.3
Yan naman masarap na ilagay doon dahil may market na eh.
26:56.3
So, sa Vegas, sa inyo yun, nung bumukas yun, ba't nag-Arizona kayo?
27:02.3
Well, Arizona, it was just someone got interested in opening one there.
27:07.3
Okay, so franchise yun.
27:08.3
Yeah, franchise yun eh.
27:09.1
And we're like, tinignan namin yung drive, para ka lang nag-drive to the Bay Area.
27:13.1
When did the family start believing in you guys as a couple?
27:17.1
That's a funny question.
27:20.1
Because that's an important question also.
27:22.1
I think in the beginning, they thought we were crazy.
27:25.1
And then, of course, the siblings were always very supportive of us from the beginning.
27:31.1
And my family, yung immediate namin, they were always supportive kasi, you know, they believe in it.
27:37.1
Is your mom still around?
27:39.1
My mom's still around. She's in Manila. But she comes a lot.
27:41.1
And then, tandaan mo, di ba, sinabi mo kanina din in the beginning of the podcast, she would make you bake, right?
27:47.1
So, when you were finally doing this, what was her reaction?
27:50.1
Amin niya, ayan pala yung silbi mo.
27:54.1
Because I dropped out of college and she was so upset when I did.
27:59.1
I dropped out of college after my first year.
28:04.1
Well, it's a long story because…
28:06.1
No, this is your podcast episode.
28:07.9
It's a long story because I originally wanted to go to law school sa UP.
28:12.9
Pumasa ka ba ng UPCAT?
28:14.9
Aran ako talaga. Nag-review ako ng UPCAT ko and I passed Baguio, LB…
28:22.9
Diliman, hindi eh. Hirap ng Diliman. Manila.
28:25.9
Yeah. Those three.
28:26.9
Pero LB at least malapit sa Paranaque.
28:27.9
Yeah. But I wanted to go up to Baguio.
28:30.9
So, sabi ng ma'am, kamalayo masyado Baguio. Then I said, fine, LB.
28:35.7
Kung magiging abogado ako, I'll take my pre-law and all that.
28:39.7
Yun pala, takot na takot na yung daddy ko na mag-law kasi medyo activist ako eh.
28:46.7
Kaya pala UP. Okay.
28:48.7
In the 90s, kung activist ka…
28:51.7
Medyo nakakatakot.
28:53.7
Diba? So, yung daddy ko, huwag ka nang pumasok sa UP.
28:56.7
Hindi mamamatay ka dun eh. Papatayin ka eh. Tapang mo eh.
29:00.7
How many siblings do you have?
29:01.7
I have a total of a lot.
29:04.5
I have a yours, mine, and ours family.
29:06.5
Okay. So, blended.
29:07.5
Blended family kami. But my true blood siblings, 100%, there's three of us.
29:13.5
But it's a big family. Twelve.
29:15.5
Loving family. Yeah.
29:16.5
But, yeah. So, sabi, huwag ka na mag-law school.
29:19.5
But I want to. I'm like, sige na, please.
29:22.5
Kasi pag na-ambush ka dun, papatayin ka. Kawawa naman kami.
29:25.5
Mangungulila kami sa'yo.
29:32.5
Pag may nangyari sa'yo, may onsip eh.
29:34.5
Ang dami niyo eh.
29:35.5
Yeah. Ang dami niyo naman eh.
29:37.5
Pero sabi niya, try mo na lang sa ibang school.
29:39.5
Sabi ko, like, what?
29:42.5
Sabi niya, assumption.
29:44.5
Ay, pwede babae dun. Nga arte.
29:48.5
Pero assumption hindi ka ah.
29:50.5
Assumption instead. I met a lot of my best friends there.
29:54.5
But one year lang tinagal ko. Hindi ko kinaya.
29:55.5
So, first, ano kinuha mo ron?
30:01.5
Pero sabi ko, sige, I'll try it.
30:03.3
But I can't promise you na I'll like it.
30:06.3
At actually, ginawa mo naman talaga.
30:07.3
After one year, mas comfortable ka sa bahay.
30:11.3
Oo. Nakakaloka doon sa school.
30:13.3
I mean, I love my friends but it just wasn't for me.
30:16.3
So, you dropped out.
30:17.3
I dropped out after the first year.
30:19.3
Literally, after the first year.
30:22.3
Anong gusto mo gawin?
30:26.3
I don't know, to be honest.
30:29.3
And you know what?
30:30.3
I hope people are picking up on this.
30:31.3
When you say, I don't know.
30:33.3
It doesn't mean na wala kang gustong gawin.
30:36.3
It just means you're not.
30:38.3
You're just not ready at the point.
30:40.3
At that point, di ba?
30:41.3
At that point, I think I was like 20.
30:43.3
So, kailan pumasok si James sa buhay mo?
30:48.3
So, I went to culinary school sa CCA Manila for a little bit.
30:51.3
Bakit ka nag-culinary school?
30:53.3
Yun ang sabi niya ako.
30:54.3
Ano ba gusto mo gawin?
30:55.3
I go, other than cooking, I can't think of anything else.
30:57.3
Sabi niya, di try mo muna mag-cooking school.
30:59.3
So, I went to CCA Manila for a year.
31:02.1
And then, I lived in Katipunan.
31:04.1
And then, parang sabi ko…
31:06.1
Yung mga kondoron?
31:08.1
Sabi ko, parang hindi pa rin like it's not necessary.
31:11.1
Or I was just like missing something.
31:14.1
So, moved back home, dropped out.
31:16.1
And my mom said, gusto mo bang mag-aral abroad?
31:19.1
Sabi ko, kaya mo ba magbayad ng tuition abroad?
31:23.1
Very supportive ang mami mo sa'yo, ha?
31:25.1
My parents were very supportive.
31:26.1
I was really lucky na…
31:28.1
Although, yun, uminura nila ako ng konti.
31:30.1
O, syempre, kasama yun.
31:31.9
So, uminura nila ako ng konti.
31:32.9
But, um, she said, sige.
31:35.9
Kung gugustuhin mo, gagawa natin ng paraan.
31:38.9
So, at that point, buweli siya ng computer.
31:42.9
For me to research how to get to the States.
31:45.9
Kita mo, pinila ka pa ng computer talaga.
31:48.9
Oo ba, ito talaga.
31:49.9
Mami, I love you.
31:50.9
I hope she's watching talaga.
31:52.9
So, she bought that.
31:54.9
And then, bago internet.
31:56.9
And then, dito na pumasok si James.
31:58.9
Dinownload ko yung AOL.
32:02.7
May chatroom na. Parang ICQ ba yun?
32:04.7
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
32:07.7
Hindi siya nakikinig.
32:10.7
And then, pangalan kulit ko.
32:13.7
So, wait, wait, wait.
32:14.7
Nasa Pilipinas kayo?
32:15.7
Nasa Pilipinas ako.
32:18.7
Nasa West Covina siya?
32:21.7
So, nag-chatroom kami.
32:22.7
Nag-uusap ng laman Pilipino pa rin.
32:24.7
Then, we started talking.
32:25.7
And then, I think we started, like, dating.
32:30.5
This was, like, 97.
32:32.5
So, ito yung tapos na yung...
32:34.5
Tapos na yung exile ni James sa Pilipinas at this point.
32:36.5
Tapos na yung exile.
32:37.5
Balik na siya sa Amerika nito.
32:40.5
Then, we started talking.
32:43.5
And then, binabangkit ko na sa kanya.
32:45.5
I'm actually, like, trying to go there.
32:47.5
So, in other words,
32:48.5
binila ka ng computer para maghanap ka ng...
32:53.5
Para maghanap ka ng...
32:55.5
ng gagawin sa Amerika.
32:57.5
Ang ginawa mo, naghanap ka ng asawa.
32:59.5
Hindi ako naghanap.
33:00.5
Hinanap niya ako.
33:01.5
Let's get that straight.
33:04.5
Hindi ako naghanap.
33:06.5
Hinanap niya ako.
33:08.5
And then, I came to California in 99
33:13.5
before heading to New York.
33:15.5
And 99 was when we officially met dito sa States.
33:20.5
And then, we started dating since then.
33:23.5
Wala ka alam-alaman nanay mo nito?
33:26.5
Oo, wala pa masyado.
33:27.5
Ngayon, tita, alam niyo na.
33:29.5
Alam na niya ngayon.
33:30.5
Alam na niya ngayon.
33:31.5
At that point, wala silang alam.
33:34.5
But then, I went to New York.
33:37.5
You went to New York for formality.
33:40.5
Para napasabi mo sa nanay mo tatay.
33:42.5
Pero, gusto mo na bumalik ng California?
33:47.5
I actually wanted to stay in New York.
33:50.5
Sabi niya, sabi niya,
33:51.5
wala naman yung intriga dito.
33:52.5
Wala naman drama yung buhay.
33:53.5
Ngayon, di ba nagkakakulay na?
33:56.5
Wala akong drama.
33:57.5
Okay, go, go, go.
33:58.3
So, long distance.
34:02.5
LDR because California siya.
34:04.5
And then, after I graduated,
34:06.5
balik ako sandali ng California.
34:08.5
So, you graduated sa New York?
34:10.5
As what? Culinary?
34:12.5
I took culinary there.
34:13.5
So, finormalize mo na talaga?
34:14.5
Tinuldukan mo doon?
34:16.5
And then, came back to California
34:18.5
for a little bit to do some internships.
34:20.5
And then, bumalik na ako ng Pilipinas.
34:22.5
So, LDR na naman.
34:25.5
Until he proposed in...
34:32.5
So, LDR kayo ng apat na taon.
34:34.5
Oo. Tapos, we were married in 01.
34:37.5
And then, migrate.
34:39.5
So, at that point,
34:40.5
tawag na niya sa akin mail order.
34:46.5
He's not looking.
34:47.5
Yeah, he's not looking.
34:55.5
Alam mo, James, kailangan natin ng episode ha.
34:58.1
I need to hear your side of this, ha?
34:59.9
No, ito yung side niya.
35:03.9
There's no other side.
35:06.5
Kino kasi, diba, para alam mo yung feeling na you guys,
35:10.3
you guys are meant to be.
35:12.3
Because kung wala kayong dalawa,
35:14.9
kung wala yung hiling niya sa kotse,
35:17.3
at yung kinikalabutan ako, at yung hiling mo sa pagbe-bake,
35:20.7
walang Cafe 86 na ine-enjoy ngayon, eh.
35:25.3
That's nice. Thank you.
35:27.1
Pero totoo, eh. Diba?
35:29.1
Ang nai-enjoy namin lahat is yung risk ninyo.
35:35.1
Ito yung back story na,
35:37.3
ba't ang inakaya ba natin to?
35:39.3
Habang kami kumakain lang kami, nai-enjoy namin.
35:42.3
Pero yung pinagdaanan ninyo led to this.
35:47.3
Marami namang pinagdaanan.
35:50.3
Gusto namin rin eh.
35:51.3
Mahirap. Mahirap. Like I said, it was…
35:54.3
Kasi ngayon, we're laughing about it.
35:55.9
But people who want to go into business,
35:57.9
they need to know that it's not a joke.
36:00.3
It's not that easy.
36:01.7
Because we thought, ah, boba siya, pagdali lang yan, no?
36:04.5
Paano ko naman nakikita natin yan doon sa Zago noon?
36:07.9
Dali lang yung gumagawa ng drinks.
36:10.3
Picture ka lang, hindi ko alam si Rico yan.
36:12.9
Oo nga. But it's a lot more than that.
36:16.3
Because there's so much, so many moving parts to the business.
36:21.9
And for us, because we were fully invested in it,
36:24.7
we had to make it work.
36:26.1
There's no other, there's no other route.
36:28.5
We, this has to work or else…
36:30.5
So imagine, housewife for six years.
36:33.3
Kasi six, diba? Six and five. Si Leah was six, right?
36:37.1
Housewife for six years.
36:38.5
Bigla kang ginulo ng asawa mo.
36:39.7
Ginulo yung mundo ko.
36:40.9
Na okay naman yung trabaho niya.
36:42.3
Mahirap lang dahil sa sales.
36:45.7
You had a choice eh.
36:48.3
You had a choice to ignore and just live your life.
36:54.7
What was the conviction level of his pitch that made you say,
37:01.1
you know what, let me help you scratch your itch.
37:05.7
It was not just for him.
37:07.5
So it was for the family.
37:09.1
So it was him trying to get an out where he was also unhappy.
37:13.3
Parang dead end na for him eh.
37:15.5
Importante talaga yun.
37:17.7
It was like, I'm done with this and I need your help.
37:20.5
We need to get this out of, you know, we need to get this off the ground.
37:24.7
Because we need to have something of our own for the kids.
37:27.7
So up to this day, that's really our motivation.
37:29.5
We do everything for them.
37:30.9
Milyonaryo na ba kayo?
37:38.1
That's the goal, to retire.
37:40.7
How does it feel being supported by the community?
37:43.1
And not only the Filipino community, but by…
37:45.5
When I say community, I'm talking about the people in the area where Cafe 86 is.
37:51.3
Sobrang proud ako dun eh.
37:52.5
I think in the beginning, it was really
37:54.1
one of the biggest things that helped propel Cafe 86
37:58.3
was the Filipino community for sure.
38:00.5
The 86 car community, that was 100% all in sila sa amin.
38:05.5
But I would tell everybody this.
38:08.5
Without the community support, we wouldn't be where we are today.
38:12.1
Because hindi mo kakayanin on your own eh.
38:15.3
And when I first got here, I wasn't involved in community at all.
38:21.7
Oo, mga bata ko lang.
38:22.9
Tried to run the business.
38:23.7
And people would approach us saying,
38:25.1
you need to like be a part of this and that.
38:27.5
I'm like, para saan?
38:28.7
Pinoy na Pinoy ako, pinanganak ako sa Pilipinas.
38:31.5
Wala naman ako kailangan i-prove sa kahit ganino, right?
38:35.1
I have nothing to prove to anyone.
38:36.7
So why do I need to be part of that?
38:38.7
Until I saw really the advantage and the benefit of
38:42.9
just knowing one person that connects you to another.
38:45.7
And when you think you could do it all, you really can't.
38:49.1
And that's why there's community.
38:50.7
That's why ang Pilipino ang galing sa bayanihan eh, diba?
38:52.7
Aaruguin mo yung isa't isa just to make sure that the other person excels.
38:57.7
And I think with the generation of Filipinos that are present around us nowadays,
39:02.7
the crab mentality is starting to slowly go…
39:05.9
I'm not gonna say it's gone because it's still there.
39:08.1
I think it's like an innate…
39:10.1
Kumbaga hindi na cool maging talangka.
39:11.9
Hindi na cool maging talangka.
39:13.3
So, but you know, you catch yourself sometimes.
39:15.7
But then you have to fix it.
39:17.3
Like, hindi pwede.
39:18.7
At this point in the game, we watch the other cultures come up like,
39:22.7
Japanese, Koreans, they're so tight-knit.
39:26.1
Kahit yung mga Armenian, diba?
39:27.5
Yeah, they're very tight-knit.
39:28.7
They stand up for each other.
39:29.9
They defend each other.
39:31.1
Meanwhile, here we are watching someone come up and say, eh.
39:36.7
Bakit walang beans?
39:37.9
Bakit ganyan maginuan?
39:38.9
Like, instead na magkapit-bisig tayo lahat,
39:41.5
understand that there's enough sunshine for everyone to go around.
39:44.9
And I can't be the only one selling ube.
39:47.9
It's better that there's many of us.
39:49.7
And the louder we are, the better it is for our community.
39:52.7
So now, when you're all alone,
39:54.5
ganyan tinanong kita when you were starting, diba?
39:57.1
Pag ikaw lang nakakulong sa pantry at ikaw lang mag-isa,
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Ngayon naman, in 2023 going 2024, magbawa one decade na ang Cafe 86.
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What do you say to yourself during your quiet moments?
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Like, really, I just, sometimes, minsan kaming dalawa in the car,
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we drive a lot because we visit all our stores.
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So a lot of times, we're both, like I said,
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magkakamit talaga.
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And the kids are bigger now.
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The kids are teenagers.
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They don't really like us that much anymore.
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So we have a lot of these quiet moments in the car.
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And like, lately, we've been driving to Chandler, to Arizona.
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And he's like, dang, can you, did you ever imagine that we would be where?
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Like, to be honest, no.
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Like, if you asked me in 2014, if I saw this, I would say no.
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But ask James, he would say yes.
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He would always say, I told you so.
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I'm always the one that, mas takot.
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But, you know, it's God's grace, to be honest.
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I mean, this, this is not like, by any means.
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For the record, he's really a visionary kasi nakita ka niya yun.
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May uta ka sa akin, ha?
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Sabi ko nang swerte talaga niya eh.
41:22.7
Mayroon si Lamda pa, eh.
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Nag-usap ba kayo bago dito?
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Nilokan niya ako.
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Pero kinikilig ako, ang ganda ng love story.
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Busy siya nagbibilyards, yamo.
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I-landing natin, ah.
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Advice for couples and single women who are, let's start with the single women,
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who are being pressured by their siblings,
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their parents, na ano ba, magka-college ka na, wala ka pang plano sa buhay.
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Huwag na lang tayo lumayo, because my kids are at that point,
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especially my oldest, who's junior in high school.
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Seventeen na, no?
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Sixteen, turning seventeen, na, you know, nape-pressure na,
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ano bang aaralan mo for college, anong ganyan.
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So wala ka pinakaiba sa…
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So, between us, kasi siya mas gusto niya na he's structured because he's a guy.
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So gusto niya may structure.
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Sabi ko, hindi mo pa maano, eh.
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Like, I can't put him on a path na alam kong will be the same path for the next ten years,
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because he's so young.
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So, I mean, stay true to yourself, because like, you know what's best for you,
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wala talagang makakaalam, eh.
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But also be realistic about a game plan, because, you know, my son wants to be a music producer,
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but, you know, yung Pilipina aspect of, wala akong pera dyan, mag-nurse ka.
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And we did catch ourselves saying that to him na,
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you know, we get that you want to be a music producer,
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but in the event that doesn't work out for you, you need a backup plan.
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So maybe nursing is like…
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But then, you know, I mean, we didn't really say it that way.
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We just said, yung mga pinsan nyo make $60 an hour.
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They're like, what?
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I said, yeah, isn't that a good backup plan?
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He's like, kind of. Now I kind of wanna…
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Hindi namin tinwis.
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Sorry, ah. Kaya ako natatawa. Sinabi ko rin sa anak ko yun.
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Wala kang plano sa buhay.
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Mag-nursing ka muna dahil at least may pera ka habang nag-iisip ka ng plano mo sa buhay.
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I mean, it's not a bad option.
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And it's not a good backup plan to have.
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Nakakatulong ka pa sa kapwa-tao.
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So sabi ko, ang goal ko lang naman sa'yo is for you to have a good future,
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a stable future, hindi ka homeless.
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So I say, just stay true to yourself,
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but also keep realistic goals.
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Kasi ako, gusto ko lang maging donya.
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Pero hindi pa pa pwede sabi ni James.
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Actually, dumodonya ka na. Inistorbo ka lang eh.
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Ang pagka-donya ko lang, may driver ako.
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But, you know, I wanna be a donya.
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But realistically, there's work to do.
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And we're putting in the work that we're putting in now
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so that we could retire earlier than, you know, sooner than later.
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Sa mga couples naman na…
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May isa sa kanila visionary tulad ni James.
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You could have been the wife na sumupalpal sa asawa mo eh.
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You could have easily been that person.
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And it's happening all around.
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And I do that to him all the time too.
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I do that. Minsan, nah, kaganyanin ko lang siya.
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Tenacious lang talaga tong asawa mo.
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But also, you have to like come to the realization na
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you have to work towards a mutual goal.
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And the mutual goal here is retirement
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and be able to set our kids up with a stable future.
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Like what he said, ganun ka na nabenta.
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Yeah, to give them that gift of stability and, you know,
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something our parents didn't really get to give us.
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My dad passed away. My mom's still working.
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She gave me a really good life.
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But I wanna be able to do more.
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I always wanna give them, you know, better than what you had, right?
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Ganun yung gusto mo sa mga anak mo.
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Have a better life than you.
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And like kahit na the growing pains of the business was hard,
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it was just the mutual understanding of this is the end goal.
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And I think it's hard.
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Like it's hard to like work with your husband,
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then come home, eh anandiyan ka na naman.
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Minsan natutulog siya. Gusto ko siyang suntukin eh.
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Kulit mo eh. Yeah.
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I mean, that's the truth.
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And I'm sure sometimes gusto niya akong hambalusin.
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So, kayo. Sa mga turista, sa mga tao na nasa
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ibang bansa, Canada, Dubai, Philippines, na nanonood.
45:50.5
Dito pati na rin sa Amerika na wala sa Arizona, Las Vegas, at saka sa California.
45:56.5
If they are going to go into Cafe 86
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at hindi sila magbumukhang first timer,
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ano ang una nilang kailangan orderin for food and for drink?
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Upside down, halo-halo, for sure.
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Sa mga iced tea, jasmine calamansi.
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And desserts, ube truffle, ube butter bars, ube cheesecake.
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Okay. So, dito na. Ito na yung last question ko sa'yo before we land this.
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And you can only give me one answer.
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Ano ang favorite mong dish sa Cafe 86?
46:37.5
Para mo ako tinanong sino ang favorite kong anak.
46:42.5
Favorite dessert sa Cafe 86? Shit.
46:49.5
Ladies and gentlemen, Ginger Di Mapasok!
46:58.5
Don't forget to visit Cafe 86. Atin to.
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This is our community.
47:03.5
And let's bring it out there. Diba?
47:06.5
Ang Jollibee nandito na. Cafe 86.
47:09.5
Let them conquer the world.
47:17.3
Like, subscribe, and follow them on Instagram.
47:19.5
Dito na rin, follow us on Instagram, on YouTube, and on Facebook, and Spotify, and Apple Music.
47:28.5
Thank you, Ginger.
