00:16.5
Kapag makakaroon din sana tayo
00:19.8
with Steve Walden naman.
00:21.4
Para naman maganda.
00:22.8
Sa ating mga supporters yan.
00:24.4
There's so much we can talk about.
00:25.5
Let's also arrange something like that
00:26.9
along those lines.
00:28.3
although lalo tayong hindi ma-invite
00:34.4
kaligan natin yan.
00:39.9
You were in Paris.
00:42.0
if it's time to watch it.
00:44.2
recently my gumbora's not...
00:45.2
Eating drop confit.
00:49.3
you're just from Paris.
01:04.8
we interviewed him
01:07.6
So, Gumburza is doing very well.
01:09.2
Gumburza is doing...
01:13.5
dun sa isang review natin
01:15.6
I think was very fair
01:18.4
a lot of us are hunted
01:19.8
by the ghost of Rizal.
01:21.5
Yung intellect niya,
01:22.8
yung spirit of martyrdom.
01:24.7
it's imperfection.
01:25.5
Alam natin, diba?
01:26.7
it was not perfect.
01:27.6
But, I think a lot of people
01:28.9
now are, you know,
01:30.2
hunted by ghost of Gumburza.
01:32.2
Especially, of course,
01:37.7
I think we'd have to talk about
01:39.3
more, no, Ronald?
01:40.1
And that's Isabela de Rasdeas,
01:42.5
if you're a progressive Filipino,
01:44.0
should really pay
01:44.7
close attention to
01:45.6
because I think he was
01:46.3
probably Asia's first
01:49.4
or social democratic leader, right?
01:52.6
there's anyone earlier than him.
01:54.6
And he was an ilustrado.
01:56.5
He was brilliant.
01:58.4
that according to
01:59.1
Benedict Anderson,
02:00.2
Rizal was pressured
02:01.7
to produce a lot of work,
02:03.3
some not very scholarly,
02:05.1
on pre-Spanish Philippines.
02:07.3
he was intellectually challenged
02:09.9
Isabela de Rasdeas,
02:11.1
considered as one of the
02:11.8
first anthropologists
02:12.5
in the Philippines.
02:14.7
we don't hear about him much.
02:16.1
But I think for people
02:16.9
from progressive background,
02:18.5
you would know more about him.
02:20.0
With Lelo Claudio,
02:20.8
we discussed about more
02:21.5
Isabela de Rasdeas.
02:22.6
We never talked about
02:25.6
Are you like more
02:26.2
the Bonifacio type of guy?
02:28.2
the Isabela de Rasdeas
02:30.0
Or you're like what?
02:34.8
with the Philippines past?
02:36.0
Because I think for a lot of us,
02:38.1
yung mga intellectual
02:43.3
you have a sense that
02:44.4
you're continuing
02:45.1
a certain tradition, right?
02:46.5
You're trying to live up.
02:47.7
Ikaw, as a progressive,
02:48.7
someone who used to be
02:50.1
and then over time
02:51.4
naging, you know,
02:52.8
political advisor
02:55.7
Like, where do you get
02:57.2
among our founding
02:58.2
mothers and fathers?
03:00.3
Well, malaking bahagi
03:05.8
as a revolutionary,
03:07.1
ay galing sa ating
03:11.1
of my inspiration
03:14.2
Palo sila yung nabasa ko eh.
03:15.5
Sila yung nakilala ko
03:23.1
foreign ideologues
03:30.8
yung mga organization ko
03:33.8
at saka after college,
03:35.8
ay ginagawa namin
03:39.5
Parang to stimulate
03:42.9
to the organization
03:44.1
and to the movement,
03:46.0
as a link with the past.
03:47.9
Dahil marami sa atin
03:48.8
nakalimutan na yan eh.
03:51.1
napakagaling ni Emilio Jacinto.
03:59.7
gumawa ng kartilya,
04:03.1
Namatay ng maaga.
04:05.0
Maganda sana siyang simbolong
04:06.2
para sa ating kabataan,
04:08.7
Yan yung mga kuha,
04:10.3
Si Isabelo de las Reyes,
04:15.3
yung labor movement eh.
04:23.2
ni Isabelo de las Reyes
04:26.4
yung ating labor movement.
04:48.7
Christmas Convoy.
05:06.7
ng globalization,
05:08.7
ng uri ng politika
05:16.1
Yung tabunan, no?
05:20.4
traditional politics.
05:28.1
without substance.
05:31.6
kailangan ng rituals
05:32.5
katulad ng kartilya,
05:36.7
political struggle.
05:39.8
political struggle
05:45.9
ni Emilio Jacinto.
05:51.8
magkakaroon na naman tayo
05:52.8
ng National Heroes Day.
05:56.2
magandang opportunity
05:59.5
para yung pinag-uusapan natin
06:02.0
ay masimulan uling
06:08.4
I'm glad that we're having
06:09.4
this conversation
06:12.6
we just assume na
06:13.6
both of us are so
06:14.5
invested in the Philippines,
06:15.8
invested in discussion
06:16.7
of Philippine politics.
06:18.7
it's not the happiest
06:19.6
thing to do, right?
06:22.6
there's so many other things
06:25.9
we can talk about Paris.
06:27.4
There's so much more,
06:30.2
mga murang watch na,
06:37.2
But why do we like him?
06:38.7
May lang tayo sa DVD,
06:42.4
but people are going there,
06:44.7
but for some reason,
06:45.8
binabalikan natin
06:46.7
itong politika natin,
06:47.8
no matter how tragic,
06:49.0
no matter how difficult it is,
06:50.8
if you look at it,
06:52.5
it was really the martyrdom
06:55.6
that birthed our nation.
06:57.4
it's a tragic root,
06:58.9
but it's also where the beauty
07:00.1
of our nation comes from,
07:06.0
Katapos itong last episode natin,
07:08.3
Subukan mong balikan yung cartilia
07:11.9
Dalawang version yan eh,
07:14.7
tsaka yung kaya Emilio Jacinto.
07:16.7
Nag-defer si Bonifacio
07:18.1
doon kaya Emilio Jacinto.
07:21.3
that happened more than a
07:24.1
twenty years ago.
07:32.3
hindi ka magsasawa.
07:34.3
kung meron kang puso,
07:36.2
Makaka-relate ka eh.
07:39.4
Sana maka-relate si
07:42.2
pag pinasan niya,
07:48.1
Halimbawa lang yan.
07:49.7
Halimbawa lang yan.
07:50.9
For the purpose of our,
07:53.0
for the purpose...
07:54.5
ng mga makap-usapan
07:54.7
ng mga makap-usapan
07:55.5
No, but for the purpose
07:56.5
of our discussion,
07:58.5
tell people a little bit
07:59.4
about Emelio Jacinto more?
08:02.1
contemporary ni Bonifacio yan.
08:03.8
sinasabing cartilio
08:07.6
Can you tell us a little bit
08:08.4
about it and how you were
08:10.4
University Belt eh.
08:11.7
So medyo iba yung,
08:15.7
na galing sa Katipunan,
08:18.1
but iba yung medyo
08:21.3
UP is very Bonifacio,
08:22.6
almost anti-Rizal.
08:23.6
And then Ateneo is
08:25.7
Kayo, medyo iba eh.
08:27.2
So can you tell me
08:28.0
a little bit about this
08:28.6
for those yung...
08:29.4
Partner yan yung Bonifacio eh,
08:31.9
si Emelio Jacinto.
08:32.7
Yan yung ideologue.
08:37.0
ang gumawa ng cartilio
08:39.0
Si Emelio Jacinto, no?
08:40.7
Siya yung gumawa niyan.
08:41.7
Tapos very modern
08:42.6
kung babasahin mo.
08:51.7
Siya yung administrator
08:55.4
a very young general
09:11.8
Richard Hedarian,
09:13.2
Na multi-skilled,
09:15.2
Kung ano-ano yung mga
09:17.4
Matanda na ako eh.
09:23.9
kay Emilio Asinto,
09:26.3
Yan yung skill set
09:30.9
yung mga yan, eh.
09:32.3
At saka nagsusulat
09:34.2
foreign journals, no?
09:35.6
At saka newspapers, no?
09:38.8
pero ang galing niyan, no?
09:39.9
Kaya gusto ko siya
09:41.5
para sa ating kabataan.
09:43.0
Kaya nung college kami,
09:44.1
nakaka-identify kami
09:45.7
At yung kartilya,
09:46.7
ginamit naming part
09:59.2
ideological formation
10:07.7
na may substance, no?
10:13.2
merong bowl of water,
10:20.1
Pero iisahisahin mo
10:26.4
dyan sa ritual na yan,
10:29.3
doon sa kartilya.
10:32.7
Imagine 120 years ago?
10:34.2
Can you give us a flavor of this?
10:35.1
I mean, it's like recitation.
10:36.4
We're talking about,
10:41.1
a flavor of this?
10:44.8
cliche na sinasabi
10:54.3
than yung inabutan natin.
10:56.6
nandun yan dun eh,
10:57.9
Yung role ng women,
10:59.4
although sasabihin ng iba,
11:00.4
hindi siya ganun ka-feminist.
11:02.0
Pero for that time,
11:05.8
Tapos yung family,
11:08.5
at saka yung nation
11:11.4
Hindi magkahiwalay,
11:16.4
pinagsama rin yan,
11:17.3
pero in a different tone,
11:19.2
in a different agenda.
11:28.9
Tapos yung mga prinsipyo,
11:35.8
bahagi yan ng cartel yan,
11:38.5
kung babasahan mo,
11:41.2
pinag-uusapan ito,
11:44.6
they were at the threshold
11:47.8
And very globalized
11:51.7
ng ating session ngayon.
11:54.5
Pwedeng pag-uusapan natin
11:56.3
mga episodes natin,
11:58.6
kailangan pag-uusapan
12:02.4
siguro with Lelo,
12:03.2
yung isang historiador
12:06.2
I really enjoy this,
12:07.9
I'll tell you why,
12:13.1
I understand why Rizal
12:14.1
is not officially
12:18.0
they're unsung heroes.
12:20.4
Medyo nakalimutan natin
12:23.9
we also have to mention
12:24.7
is Edelberto Evangelista
12:27.7
the military genius.
12:31.0
And he also wanted
12:31.4
to actually take over
12:45.0
Before Christmas.
12:45.8
Before Christmas,
12:50.0
na-bili ko sa kanya,
12:53.8
school sa Batangas.
12:56.7
sa panahon ng Amerikano
13:00.7
nakakalimutan na yan.
13:10.9
Kung kasi wala naman tayong
13:12.0
giyera daw sa Amerika
13:13.0
and knight in shining armor.
13:19.3
Yun yung sinasabi ko parate
13:20.6
na there's so many.
13:23.4
we can talk about
13:24.5
That's a more tragic issue
13:25.6
na we can talk about
13:26.9
sa mga susunod nating episode,
13:28.3
pwede ka-lap tayo
13:35.2
Bonus episode na lang
13:47.3
ikaw sa akin yan,
13:50.8
katulad ni Richard
13:53.5
classics ni Lenin
14:02.3
Church of the Poor,
14:16.3
natin pangasaban,
14:18.0
rectification movement
14:19.2
yung pinag-a-del ako
14:21.9
May peace talks ka,
14:23.2
pero at the same time
14:23.9
may third rectification
14:25.8
Mukhang magkakaroon na
14:27.7
yung Communist Party.
14:34.9
I think I realized
14:35.6
we have to do more
14:38.8
whenever I feel na
14:39.8
nawala ako ng pag-asa,
14:42.7
na-frustrate ako.
14:43.5
And then I remember,
14:48.6
founding fathers.
14:55.4
what they had to face.
14:57.4
they were not even
14:57.9
considered as full
15:06.7
full human beings.
15:09.4
yung sinabi ni Delatorre
15:18.8
what they had to deal
15:24.3
may mga naman tayo
15:28.2
May mamiit lang tayo
15:31.1
na passive-aggressive,
15:32.2
galit na galit na tayo,
15:37.2
ang daming drama.
15:37.9
Inong panoy niya,
15:38.5
hindi ka lang matrol,
15:40.0
ma-interrogate ka.
15:44.4
just imagine what they had
15:46.8
maya naman tayo sa balat natin,
15:48.0
ang dami natin mga gulo.
15:49.0
Ang layan narating natin
15:50.4
dahil sa sakrapisyon nila.
15:51.9
nation-building is a
15:52.7
continuous project.
15:54.7
is getting in touch
15:56.2
thank you very much
15:56.9
si Kerry Ronald Diamas
15:58.2
for suggesting to us,
15:59.4
not only talking about
16:00.8
let's have an unsung
16:04.0
balikan natin ibang heroes
16:05.2
but with a different
16:07.2
just to give you a flavor,
16:08.2
pinag-usapan natin
16:14.5
Isabelo de los Reyes.
16:16.4
this is fantastic.
16:17.7
Let's do more of this,
16:19.1
Thank you so much
16:20.0
for all the past.
16:22.3
for this fantastic discussion.
16:24.0
Looking forward to
16:24.4
catching up with you soon.
16:29.3
Kaya natin sa weekend
16:30.3
or early next week
16:31.4
with Leloy naman.
16:34.6
magandang kausap yan
16:35.3
sa mga ganitong...
