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00:00.5
Last episode natin. Okay, eto, bro.
00:02.9
We had a lot of discussion about
00:04.2
Gumburza, Rizal, Palais.
00:06.0
Andami natin na cover in, you know, just
00:07.9
roughly 40-45 minutes. That was fantastic.
00:10.4
Medyo nag-bash ka rin sa Malaysia.
00:11.9
I don't want to talk about it.
00:15.0
Eto, eto, eto, bro.
00:16.0
Balikan natin ito.
00:17.9
So, recently I got into trouble
00:20.2
again. Surprise. When, you know,
00:22.1
I had this piece for Journal of Democracy,
00:23.9
you know, the title is, you know, The Sun Also
00:26.1
Rises, which is not my title.
00:28.2
It kind of sounds like the title
00:31.3
Mga malutikiya type.
00:34.8
But anyway, I'm not disowning it. Many people
00:44.2
And then, dun sa opening lines
00:46.1
and all of that, of course, I used the term
00:49.3
everyone expected essentially like,
00:52.1
you know, this. And what came out is kind of
00:54.1
a weird pseudo-reformer,
00:58.0
on South China Sea, or maybe not so soothing
01:00.1
in fairness on the South China Sea, you know.
01:01.5
So, each side is interpreting it different ways.
01:04.0
I was kind of in hot waters, which is something
01:06.0
I don't mind. Actually, I'm beginning to enjoy
01:08.1
na I've been enjoying these
01:09.8
debates and all of it. Matagal lang. Matagal ka
01:11.8
ng hasang-hasa dyan, pare. Matagal mo nang
01:13.8
kaya yan. Si Big R
01:17.8
Matagal ng Big pala ako. Matagal ka ng Big R
01:21.8
diligado tayo dyan. But, bro, eto, eto.
01:25.0
Having said that,
01:26.4
many people don't read that. Towards the end,
01:28.0
of the article, I still argue that I'm still
01:30.1
standing by my first
01:31.4
Journal of Democracy, where I said he could still become
01:34.1
an insidious threat to Philippine
01:36.1
democracy in light of the Chacha discussion. Now,
01:38.0
before going to the whole Chacha debate and all,
01:40.0
I just want to get your point of view as a historian.
01:42.0
But, don't you think na
01:44.1
there's also this element na,
01:45.8
hindi mo naman kadiri, pero parang yung mga
01:47.8
Western countries, masyado ba silang
01:49.8
tuwantuwa kay Marcos bigla?
01:52.3
Is the contrast with Duterte
01:53.8
pushing people to overdo it?
01:56.1
I mean, ikaw, anong basa mo dito?
01:58.0
I argue that hindi siya naging
02:02.2
Marcos senior 2.0. Sure.
02:04.6
But, at the same time, I think we're falling into
02:06.2
a different fallacy, which is we're over-reading
02:08.3
into the not-so-bad things. So, I'm gonna be
02:10.3
bashed now. Ikaw yung
02:12.0
nagsabi sa akin na
02:14.0
marami kang nakakausap sa diplomatic
02:16.2
community na ang unang tanong sa'yo
02:18.2
is, kamusta na po si Dente nyo?
02:20.0
How's your president? Is he going to be fine?
02:24.4
defer to you on that, pero I think
02:26.0
babalikan ko lang yung kwento na yun.
02:28.0
When I think about Western countries
02:30.2
falling in love with BBM, yung
02:32.0
mga interactions na yun yung lagi
02:34.0
ko nakaalala. So, makatanong lang kita,
02:36.2
meron ka pa pa mga ganong klaseng interactions?
02:39.3
Nauulit pa ba yun?
02:40.4
But the other thing is, I'm not gonna
02:42.1
say, I met an editor from a very big
02:44.2
international magazine.
02:46.4
I'm not gonna say which.
02:48.3
And then, like, we were talking about
02:49.8
diplomats and all, and parang sinabi niya,
02:52.7
parang shock siya na yung mga
02:54.0
Western diplomats in general. I don't want to
02:56.1
talk to BBM and all of that.
02:58.0
Parang, sobrang parang invested
03:00.1
sila dyan. And for me, I understand
03:02.3
where that comes from, pero parang
03:04.1
I don't know, medyo
03:08.2
what I'm saying? Like, I just
03:10.0
want to make sure that people don't get ahead of themselves.
03:12.0
Kasi, for me, one thing good I
03:14.1
realized with BBM is that,
03:16.0
alam niyo yung term na ginamit ni Bernie Sanders,
03:19.1
Hillary Clinton, but unlike Trump, at least you can
03:22.1
keep her next to the fire.
03:24.5
Right? There will be some
03:26.1
responsiveness and accountability.
03:28.0
Which you'll not get with Trump. My sense
03:30.1
with Duterte was the same. Good luck, you know, getting
03:32.1
accountable. Oh, yeah, yeah.
03:33.5
If you pressure him, you push back, etc.,
03:36.5
he will be responsive.
03:38.0
Especially from outside. So,
03:40.0
ang fear ko is, baka sa over-embrace sa kanya,
03:42.2
ang suspecha ko na siya yung magiging speaker of
03:44.2
Shangri-La Dialogue soon,
03:46.3
which is a very big defense event.
03:48.2
So, I see all of these people from
03:49.9
all over the world, Western countries, come over,
03:52.4
gushing over him and all of that.
03:54.6
My fear is that that might
03:56.0
make that argument a bit weaker. Because,
03:58.0
if he feels that everyone is so
03:59.9
invested in him, then he might
04:02.1
be a little bit more adventurous and push the envelope.
04:04.3
Especially itong Chacha.
04:08.4
that's the thing.
04:10.6
People are bashing me for saying,
04:12.0
pinapabango ko si BBM, but actually, I was among
04:14.1
the first person to warn about this Chacha
04:15.8
last year pa lang, the first time I heard about it.
04:17.9
Kasi, I can see the logic of Chacha.
04:20.2
That's how you avoid Sarah Duterte winning
04:22.1
in 2028, right? I-Chacha mo yan,
04:23.9
and then, parliamentary, lagay mo nang si Martin Romales
04:25.8
whoever there. Then, solve na yung problem.
04:28.0
But, a lot of things could also
04:30.0
go wrong along the way. Now,
04:33.5
probably you heard yung discussion namin with Rinaldo.
04:35.9
Si BBM came out and said,
04:37.5
ayoko itong PI na ito, itong People's
04:39.9
Initiative. Chacha na ito.
04:41.9
Si Zubiri, nag-drama-drama,
04:44.0
away-away, mga ganun. But,
04:46.3
last time I checked, I-
04:47.6
Totoo ba yun, bro? Or sa tingin mo, moro-moro lang yung
04:49.7
away nila ni Zubiri?
04:52.1
Hindi, mukhang panic talaga ang Senate.
04:54.4
Magiging irrelevant sila.
04:57.5
kaya rin ng Congress, is they will ram it through
04:59.5
the Senate, which is like 20
05:01.3
plus people, 20-odd people.
05:03.1
Ilan ba yung Congress? 300 plus, diba?
05:05.4
They're trying to make the Senate irrelevant.
05:08.0
Kaya ako, curious ako,
05:09.1
magiging stance si Rafi Tulfo dito.
05:11.2
But, you know, the thing is,
05:13.8
parang si Salceda pa, sino ba nagsabi?
05:15.9
Na actually, may plano talaga
05:17.5
by third quarter of this year, yata,
05:21.0
ipapapush na itong referendum na ito,
05:23.3
and then push it all the way,
05:25.0
unless the Supreme Court steps in.
05:29.4
could still happen, bro.
05:30.7
So, anong basa mo ngayon
05:33.1
sa Supreme Court, kung ganyan?
05:34.9
Kasi, primarily, Duterte appointees
05:37.3
pa rin yan. So, you have
05:38.4
two big institutions
05:41.5
na kalabang mo, yung Senado
05:43.2
at yung Supreme Court. Although,
05:45.7
there are ways in which
05:47.4
kayang manduhan ng incumbent
05:49.4
president ang Supreme Court, kahit
05:51.1
appointee yan ng previous president, diba?
05:53.3
Kahit takutin yan, eh.
05:55.2
In various ways, diba? And we
05:57.3
saw this, for example, well, yung extreme version
05:59.3
nito, yung kay Corona, of course, kay Noy-Noy.
06:01.5
Pero, kahit takutin ng Supreme Court, the Supreme
06:03.3
Court can be disciplined
06:05.2
by a very, very strong executive. So,
06:08.1
is there a way forward here?
06:09.8
I guess my question is,
06:10.9
is this possible?
06:13.1
Kasi, many have tried since
06:15.1
FVR, diba? In many ways,
06:17.3
almost every president,
06:19.4
with the exception, I think, of Noy-Noy Aquino,
06:21.0
who should have actually been the one to try,
06:23.2
by the way, for a charter?
06:24.5
I just said in an interview with Rappler,
06:27.3
said something along those lines, pero he never
06:29.2
acted upon it, at least per Ronaldo.
06:33.0
Sabi niya, real big R, na
06:34.3
yes, he was just thinking out loud, but actually
06:37.2
he never raised that in cabinet meetings.
06:38.8
Because I point-blank asked Ronaldo.
06:41.2
Sabi ko, Sir Ronaldo,
06:43.2
eh, si Pinoy din. Sinabi niya rin yan sa Rappler.
06:45.4
Ay, hindi, sabi niya, actually, si Pinoy lang talagang
06:47.3
hindi nag-effort in that.
06:53.1
and what makes those people think
06:55.0
that this is possible? What makes them think that they can
06:57.0
succeed where others have failed?
07:00.3
yun nga eh, one reason, kasi
07:04.8
remember, I don't know if you
07:07.1
remember, one of the discussion we had, ah, hindi ka pala
07:08.8
kasama kasi wala yung internet mo. Yung parang sinabi
07:10.8
Ronaldo na, baka nga,
07:13.0
if the father started the NPA
07:14.7
communist rebellion, baka the son will
07:19.0
Not because of his brilliance, but because of timing.
07:21.7
And then I thought, maybe the same
07:22.8
argument could work also in constitutional
07:24.8
change, na while all of
07:26.9
us are so excited about, you know,
07:28.6
BBM not turning out as Duterte, and him
07:30.7
going after Duterte in some way. In fact,
07:33.3
speaking of Supreme Court question,
07:34.8
that's where the ICC comes in. I think if ICC
07:36.7
comes in, all, you know, it's, it's,
07:38.8
you know, all bets are off, di ba?
07:40.7
And speaking of Supreme Court, there
07:42.7
was a study that Pinoy sneak,
07:44.5
Professor Munzod, last year, which
07:46.7
showed that rarely do
07:48.6
Supreme Court justices vote against
07:50.3
an incumbent that appointed them.
07:53.1
Well, Duterte is not an incumbent anymore.
07:58.6
think there'll be kind of a, I won't say liberal
08:00.5
revolution, but there'll be a liberal wave
08:02.6
because it's gonna energize
08:04.8
all the progressive and liberals in the Philippines.
08:07.0
It's gonna bring out all of this discourse about
08:08.6
accountability. BBM
08:10.5
medyo maging mabango siya, and inevitably will
08:12.6
be kinda in the liberal camp, di ba?
08:16.5
cannot foresee a situation where the Supreme
08:18.6
Court will try to act conservative
08:20.3
in a situation where the ICC comes in.
08:22.6
So for me, the one big factor will be
08:24.6
whether ICC warrants of arrest,
08:26.7
will be issued this year, if ever they were gonna be.
08:29.8
Ronald was always
08:30.6
more optimistic than me. Aho, I think
08:32.4
it's always splitting the difference. So I'm interviewing Ruben
08:35.6
you know, soon to also discuss the
08:38.5
ICJ, ICC issues, maraming nangyara.
08:40.6
Nice, nice, nice. So we'll also have a
08:42.5
special episode on that forward ko sayo.
08:44.4
So I'm not gonna pretend that I have a final answer on this
08:46.5
issue. Now, speaking of the Chacha
08:50.6
think Martin Ramaldes and some people there
08:52.4
have an interest in pushing with this because
08:54.4
it's a question of timing because
08:56.4
Sarah Duterte. And the question of Sarah Duterte.
08:58.4
The question of Sarah Duterte
08:59.6
is a fear that if they wait
09:02.5
this out after the midterms,
09:04.5
baka kung madelay na yan by 2026,
09:07.1
no one cares about BBM anymore.
09:09.0
Everyone's gonna talk about Tulfo and Sarah
09:10.6
and maybe Riza, right, as the next presidential
09:13.9
as BBM himself said
09:16.4
correctly in 2014-15 when he was a
09:18.4
senator, if you're gonna do this, do it
09:20.3
while you're still in your early years
09:22.4
in office. So maybe behind
09:24.5
the scenes, there is an understanding.
09:26.4
Maybe BBM is saying the PI won,
09:28.3
the way it's being done. Napanood mo yung
09:30.4
commercial na Etsepuera?
09:34.3
pinanood pero nabalitaan ko.
09:36.6
Sobrang sloppy. And then you have
09:38.3
a situation na Pulong, Robin
09:40.5
Hotpadilla coming out against
09:42.5
this Chacha. Like this is weird. Like wait,
09:44.4
you guys, the third are pro.
09:47.6
Exactly. And it'd be interesting.
09:50.0
Ano bang ano? Anong opinion ni Tita Arroyo?
09:52.7
The great Chacha advocate.
09:54.8
Alam mo, parang quiet si Tita.
09:58.8
Di ba siya si ano? I want
10:00.4
a parliamentary system
10:02.1
for the Philippines.
10:04.1
Hindi na siya ngayon. Magandang ganda siya
10:06.3
ngayon. Medyo, yung mga
10:08.5
alam, parang enrila yung mga yan.
10:10.3
Tanda yan na maganda.
10:12.1
Bakit Tita? Alam mo na, di ba?
10:15.0
Kumayaman ka today. There are many
10:16.3
ways to keep very, very young.
10:18.4
Or unless you're Papa P.
10:20.2
I mean, my goodness. Piolo Pascual is almost 50
10:22.3
rata. He looks like a 20-year-old
10:24.3
guy. Ah, wala, wala. Eternal.
10:26.4
Eternal yan. Eternal yan si Papa P.
10:27.5
No sugar daw siya. Good luck doing that.
10:31.0
I cannot write and all kung walang sugar at all.
10:34.6
Nangirapan ako. I don't know. Carbs, maybe
10:36.4
I can cut. But sugar, I don't know.
10:38.5
So, good luck. Good luck kung yan
10:40.0
in our profession. But going back to
10:42.4
this, bro. My sense is
10:44.3
there are really some people invested who want to get
10:46.3
this through. BBM,
10:48.5
siguro hindi siya natuwa dun sa
10:50.1
the way the Etzapuera thing happened
10:52.4
and sloppiness of that.
10:54.2
But if they can do this in a more sophisticated
10:56.4
fashion and stealthy fashion, I don't think
10:58.2
BBM will stand in their way.
11:00.4
But I think if mag-iingay tayong
11:02.6
lahat and there's going to be international
11:04.6
pressure, maybe BBM
11:06.5
will kind of say, okay, let's slow this down
11:08.4
or consider some other option. Kasi, you know,
11:10.2
they have three options. PI,
11:12.3
Constituent Assembly, CONAS,
11:14.3
and Constitutional
11:17.0
Convention, right? So,
11:19.0
he has to make the decision very
11:20.4
soon. And as I said, I think the clincher here is
11:22.3
the ICC. Because if the ICC decision
11:24.3
comes in the next three months,
11:26.4
it's a sobrang gulo mangyari, bro.
11:28.9
Baka doon pa nila ipupush ito, di ba?
11:30.8
I mean, you get it, right?
11:31.7
Ah, pahilalim, pahilalim, pahilalim.
11:33.8
Ang gulo nun, di ba, bro?
11:35.6
And then, exactly where
11:36.7
aksa natin ito, di ba?
11:39.1
Alam mo, bro, yung isip ko lang, ha?
11:42.8
Kailangan talaga, kasi
11:43.5
yung difficulty ko dito is
11:45.8
kailangan talaga naman kasi talagang pag-usapan
11:47.4
ng chacha, eh. Actually, I was just
11:49.6
about to say. Yun yung
11:51.3
mahirap dito, eh. Yun yung mahirap dito, eh.
11:53.8
Kasi hindi naman talaga, we do not have
11:56.4
perfect constitution.
11:57.9
And one of the nice things about the unraveling
12:00.1
of the EDSA narrative is
12:01.6
hindi na sinasanto yung constitution na yan.
12:04.7
Except for a couple of people
12:06.0
who think na parang lahat na doon sa
12:07.8
constitution na yan. Unfortunately, si
12:09.7
Mr. Christian Monzod, who was one of the drafters
12:12.1
of the constitution, still thinks that
12:14.0
if we had just followed the constitution
12:15.5
to a letter, then many of our problems
12:17.9
could have been averted. No, I think there are
12:19.7
really fundamental problems
12:21.7
in the constitution.
12:22.7
What is your take?
12:25.9
for one thing, kailangan natin lang ilibing
12:30.9
Patay na si Claro Recto, pero hindi pa natin
12:33.1
nalilibing si Claro Recto.
12:34.7
What do we mean by that? Yung economically
12:36.7
nationalist provisions
12:38.2
na dinadaya lang din naman
12:40.5
ng mga mayayaman so that the people
12:42.7
who are able to come in with foreign business
12:44.6
partners are those people who are able to
12:46.6
cheat the system. You should really
12:48.5
get rid of that completely, di ba?
12:51.0
And marami namang advocate
12:52.6
niyan. I remember noong 2016
12:54.4
election, ang pinakamalaking
12:55.9
bukid niyan, si Only B. Nye.
12:58.4
Noong panahon na yun.
13:00.4
Alam natin talagang pag-usapan yun.
13:02.5
And yung parliamentary system.
13:03.9
Parliamentary system is actually for
13:06.0
a country like the Philippines, I think
13:07.9
it could work, di ba?
13:10.2
Because we really need to
13:11.5
tell people na pag-isipan
13:14.1
ang partido. Mahina ang party democracy
13:16.1
natin. So of course, there are many ways
13:18.2
to build a party-based democracy
13:20.4
but one way to do that is to creating
13:22.2
a structure that inherently encourages
13:24.6
people to think in terms of party.
13:25.9
If you like a president, pwede
13:28.0
pa rin naman may president on top of
13:30.0
the prime minister.
13:33.3
Pwede naman kung mahilig talaga tayo sa presidente since
13:35.9
uso sa atin ang directly elected
13:38.0
president. So pwede pa rin naman yun, di ba?
13:40.3
So yung problema ko
13:42.1
is kailangan naman talagang pag-usapan
13:44.5
when are we ever going to trust
13:48.1
our politicians enough na pag sinabi
13:50.3
nila, pag-usapan natin yung
13:51.8
chacha, hindi natin pagsususpets
13:54.2
siya na may ulterior motive.
13:55.9
Will it ever get to that point?
13:59.1
The only time that was possible
14:03.4
Kung si Noy, sinabi niya, palitan na natin
14:05.6
itong konstitusyon ng nanay ko.
14:07.2
That window closed, bro. Wala na.
14:09.7
Oo nga eh, di ba? So ewan ko ah.
14:12.0
I don't know, bro. I mean, are we gonna wait
14:13.9
for a Rafi Tulfo or Riza administration?
14:15.9
I don't know, bro. Kasi
14:17.1
I'll be honest, as I said, I
14:19.7
don't mind seeing a prime minister in the Philippines.
14:21.9
I think your type, my type, has even a better
14:24.1
chance in the parliamentary system.
14:25.9
Right? Oh, exactly, exactly.
14:27.4
Nating prime minister na sa France, di ba?
14:30.0
Exactly, exactly. So honestly,
14:31.8
in theory, personally,
14:33.8
I like a more parliamentary
14:35.5
system because I think there could be more choices for people
14:37.7
like you and I. Yes, yes.
14:39.6
Who find the current system just too, like,
14:41.3
incorrigible, right?
14:45.5
I mean, to be honest, like, speaking of the
14:47.4
ceremonial president, di ba,
14:49.5
BBM has sovereign immunity
14:51.4
because he's the president of the republic.
14:52.9
If they do a chacha, and even
14:54.9
if he just becomes ceremonial,
14:55.9
president, he'll still have that sovereign
14:57.7
immunity. Oh, nga na. Oh, oh, oh.
14:59.5
He can still travel without any trouble
15:01.8
to United States. Oh, nga na. Oh, nga na.
15:04.3
Because ceremonial president can
15:05.9
have another six-year tenure in office.
15:08.5
And then yung prime minister, whoever na lang,
15:10.1
siguro si Martin Muna or whatever,
15:12.0
I'm just saying, ang laki ng incentive
15:14.0
for BBM to seal the deal
15:15.9
on the chacha issue. Seal the deal.
15:17.2
It's a question of how does it, under what circumstances.
15:20.5
So siguro at some point,
15:21.8
I hate to say this, Lelo, I hate to say,
15:23.6
I really like that you said what you said.
15:25.9
Right? Because at some point,
15:28.5
tanggapin ang dapat natin,
15:29.8
magkakaroon talaga ng some sort of charter change.
15:31.9
It's just a question of how bad
15:34.0
or what's the best
15:35.7
we can get out of it, considering
15:37.3
the state of play.
15:39.1
Alam mo yung, alam mo yung, alam mo yung,
15:41.2
alam mo yung parang,
15:43.4
kasi sa tingin ko, yung
15:45.4
anti-EDSA narrative freaked out
15:47.8
a lot of the dilawan eh.
15:49.1
Kung strategy lang ba, strategy lang,
15:51.5
sabihin natin kung ako sina Martin,
15:54.0
hindi ko babanatan yung EDSA.
15:55.9
Gagawin ko napaka-NARO,
16:00.9
Eh di, hindi ko binigatan yung EDSA,
16:03.1
hindi ko na-elinate yung mga dilawan,
16:04.9
ginawa ko ng anti-SARA,
16:06.1
baka may mga nakuha pa akong dilawan.
16:07.6
Diba, medyo bobo yung movie.
16:11.7
may mga dilawan daw na nagsaside with Sarah
16:14.8
against this channel.
16:16.5
I mean, yung mga never Marcos type.
16:18.5
Oh, by the way, shout out
16:19.1
director Vince Taniado joining us.
16:21.8
Baka mamaya ba't si Pepe Joke na mag-join dito.
16:24.0
But, kaya ingat lang dahil sa mga sinasabi.
16:25.9
Sabihin natin sa mga Pilipinas.
16:28.3
Now, going back to this, Leloy.
16:30.6
Actually, kaya nga gustong-gusto kita
16:33.1
you say the things na very, like,
16:37.5
ay mukhang mapunta na tayo dyan eh.
16:40.2
Like, it's just a matter of
16:41.4
how we're just gonna cross that bridge.
16:44.6
I mean, honestly, bro,
16:45.6
I'm thinking about it.
16:46.6
Hindi mag-work talaga the way Philippines is.
16:49.3
Ang labo na manalo yung isang matinong presidente,
16:52.0
even if manalo yung matinong presidente,
16:53.7
kung yung kongres mo ay purong mga ganyan tao,
16:55.3
parang ang labo eh.
16:56.7
So, part of me...
16:57.4
No, ano yun talaga.
16:58.3
No system is forever.
17:01.2
And you're absolutely right.
17:02.7
Constitution should be a living document
17:04.3
that fits the purpose of the moment.
17:08.2
I don't know kung minor to,
17:09.9
as a women's rights advocate,
17:11.7
there's one thing in this Constitution
17:13.5
that I absolutely hate.
17:15.1
Constitutional ban on abortion.
17:19.2
There's a constitutional ban on abortion.
17:25.3
that makes a certain part of the document
17:27.6
a theocratic document.
17:29.5
Hindi eternal itong document.
17:32.2
There are many things about this
17:37.4
just because you come from a woke place,
17:39.3
Berkeley, California,
17:40.8
to impose your values on us.
17:43.1
President Trump will fix that problem
17:47.6
In many ways nga,
17:48.8
Republican wet dream yung Constitution natin.
17:51.2
My God, may constitutional ban on abortion.
17:54.0
I agree with that.
17:54.6
If the Americans got hold of that,
17:56.7
oh my God, you know.
17:58.3
I'm telling my friend.
18:00.9
US is interesting, right?
18:02.0
I think this is the Supreme Court
18:03.3
with the most number of Catholics, right?
18:07.2
Five or six Catholic justices.
18:09.5
Like, it's impressive.
18:11.9
US Supreme Court is feeling
18:14.6
I mean, their jurisprudence,
18:17.9
it's just an amazing detail
18:19.0
that came to my mind.
18:20.2
But going back...
18:20.7
So, bro, paano na?
18:23.7
to move forward here?
18:27.2
Okay, I'll put aside
18:28.6
my ilustrado side
18:29.9
and I'll just be a wonky guy.
18:32.5
this is my suggestion.
18:33.6
Make the most ingay and pressure
18:35.0
so that if this chacha
18:36.4
is about to happen,
18:37.4
A, you avoid Sara.
18:40.1
If you are never to third camp.
18:42.9
get the least bad version
18:44.9
out of this chacha.
18:46.6
hope that we still can inject
18:48.1
some good elements into that
18:49.5
so that five to ten years from now,
18:51.1
we can get a decent prime minister or two.
18:53.7
some good political party.
18:54.9
So, this is a three-step
18:55.8
wonky approach I have.
18:58.1
The ilustrado in me,
18:59.9
will go against any kind of...
19:02.1
You know, as I said,
19:03.2
you cannot fix the problem
19:04.1
if the problem is the fixer.
19:06.4
that's the problem.
19:07.3
Yung ilustrado natin,
19:11.8
ng ating politika.
19:12.9
So, I'm actually conflicted, bro,
19:15.5
sobrang conflicted ako.
19:17.8
I'm very actually...
19:18.9
meron pa rin, ha?
19:20.2
Meron pa rin part of me.
19:23.4
trying to change the Constitution.
19:26.0
Which is what we can use against him
19:28.3
not to mumbo-jumbo it, right?
19:30.5
for someone na may trauma pa rin,
19:34.3
and I didn't live through it,
19:36.3
I've studied it a lot
19:37.4
and I know how it works
19:39.9
paano talaga binabo
19:41.3
yung legal system natin
19:45.7
constitutional change is,
19:48.0
it gives me goosebumps.
19:51.3
to say na, you know,
19:53.4
maybe in his mind,
19:54.9
have I not proven to you
19:56.3
that I'm not my father?
19:58.1
Pero yung gut reaction lang,
20:00.2
yung gut lang talaga,
20:01.9
if there's a Marcos.
20:06.0
to change the Constitution,
20:07.7
that gives me goosebumps.
20:09.5
how fair that is,
20:10.3
but that's just a kind of
20:11.0
gut reaction on my part.
20:14.6
the weapon of the opposition, right?
20:18.4
international opinion
20:22.3
if I cannot trust?
20:23.4
Constitutional change.
20:25.4
even they use is not,
20:27.7
ETSA Constitution.
20:28.7
This is not a Philippine.
20:30.0
Aquino Constitution
20:31.7
Like that whole rhetoric,
20:32.9
that Maharlika-ish
20:38.0
Investment Fund episode,
20:41.4
the dilawan argument.
20:42.4
I think it showed
20:43.2
some interesting things.
20:44.9
it's not too hard
20:46.3
against the Marcoses
20:47.9
when they bring up
20:48.6
this nostalgic argument.
20:50.3
At the same time,
20:50.8
it also shows that
20:51.5
Marcos will push through
20:53.4
With something that is
20:57.6
it also shows that
20:58.8
you can come up with
20:59.3
a version that is not
21:00.2
as evil as critics thought.
21:02.0
look at the final version
21:03.2
of the Maharlika Investment Fund
21:04.5
compared to the first version
21:08.1
that's a good argument,
21:09.6
I think the Maharlika
21:10.9
is kind of a microcosm
21:12.5
of what could happen.
21:14.2
That's interesting.
21:15.2
That's interesting.
21:15.7
It's a good parallel,
21:16.7
I just thought about it
21:18.6
maybe this could give us,
21:20.8
that's a good point.
21:21.5
Thank you so much,
21:22.4
I thought about it.
21:24.0
I think this could be
21:30.1
Hindi si Gilbert Teodoro,
21:32.3
walang failed assassination
21:34.1
attempt kay Gilbert Teodoro,
21:35.9
hindi nila aarestoin
21:39.5
si Risa Oteveros.
21:40.9
They're going to ram
21:42.4
something through peacefully.
21:44.8
in that peaceful process,
21:49.0
It's a mixed bag.
21:50.5
It's just a question
21:52.6
in what direction?
21:53.8
it's going to be 50 shades?
21:55.1
Is it darker shades
21:56.1
or lighter shades?
21:58.3
the Mark Twain thing
21:59.0
he said doesn't repeat,
22:00.4
But what's less than rhyme?
22:02.0
I think that's what's going to happen.
22:02.9
Hindi ko nga lang.
22:06.5
But there is already
22:07.2
one thing I'm sure of.
22:10.0
that by disposition,
22:11.8
this Ferdinand Marcos
22:13.4
as the older Ferdinand Marcos.
22:15.6
anybody who makes the argument
22:17.3
na ang disposition nito
22:18.3
at ang end goal nito
22:19.2
is similar to the fathers,
22:21.4
naglo-lokohan na lang tayo.
22:23.4
love him or hate him,
22:26.1
you have to hate him
22:27.0
for different reasons.
22:30.6
and there are reasons to hate him,
22:32.1
but you have to hate him
22:33.3
from different reasons,
22:34.2
from the reasons you hated the father.
22:36.5
ibang-ibang tao ito.
22:38.3
if he rams through
22:39.3
a constitutional change,
22:40.5
it is going to look
22:41.1
very different from
22:42.4
yung ginawa ng tatay niya.
22:44.1
Is that a good thing
22:47.0
I think that's a good analysis.
22:48.5
That's a good analysis.
22:49.4
I think if Ime Marcos
22:50.6
were the president
22:52.0
I would make a slightly
22:52.7
different argument.
22:56.4
that was always my point.
22:58.4
people can attest,
22:59.1
before elections,
23:05.3
it's necessarily a good thing.
23:08.6
my article the day after
23:10.2
Marcos won for Nikkei Asia
23:11.6
was no cause for panic.
23:13.9
it's going to be good.
23:15.2
don't go for the eject bottom yet.
23:17.6
Fight for whatever
23:18.7
is left of our democracy.
23:20.8
in the right direction.
23:24.3
I think the next chapter
23:25.4
how do we approach
23:28.1
is very conflicted.
23:29.6
Yung chismis na lang to.
23:31.9
yung relationship
23:32.6
ni BBM sa tatay niya.
23:34.1
Hindi yung kind of
23:34.9
unambiguous adoration
23:36.4
ng kagaya ni Ime.
23:37.7
Parang more or less
23:38.3
open secret na yan.
23:42.4
they did not get along
23:47.4
I'm working on a book
23:50.1
Return of Marcos.
23:51.1
It's based on yung mga
23:51.8
Journal of Democracy pieces,
23:54.1
the episode I'm really
23:55.2
most interested in
23:56.1
is the Hawaii days.
23:59.8
Adami daw tension.
24:01.0
Hindi narinig ko.
24:01.8
Adami daw tension
24:02.6
between yung matatag
24:06.9
there and get chismis and all.
24:10.9
that explains all of
24:12.0
these differences we're seeing.
24:13.3
let's not forget,
24:14.7
as our good friend
24:15.4
Manuel Quezon III said,
24:16.9
he was the last hawk.
24:18.2
He was a very aggressive man
24:19.6
in the last hours
24:20.4
of his father's regime.
24:22.2
something really happened
24:24.0
if I can interview him
24:25.8
I doubt that I can get
24:26.9
something out of him.
24:28.5
I want to research that
24:29.6
because I think the Hawaii days
24:30.7
were really the decisive moments.
24:32.6
there's something also about Hawaii
24:33.8
makes you a little bit
24:35.1
down and soul-searched.
24:38.8
Thank you so much.
24:40.3
Huwag na tayo mag-polvoronic
24:42.8
Thank you so much.
24:44.9
I really appreciate this.
24:46.6
Thank you very much, bro.
