A special Ronald & Richard episode.

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Ito na, ito na. Ito na yung penultimate discussion natin sa Philippine politics.

Now, one of the interesting figures who has been more or less out, I mean, hindi naman out, but above the fray-ish, pagdating dito sa Bardagulan, sa pagitan ng Dutertes and Marcoses, is someone who actually has a lot at stake here.

Because by some estimates or by some data, he could be the frontrunner already or could become the frontrunner at some point pagdating sa 2020 election.

And of course, we're talking about Senator Rafi Tulfo.

Of course, Senator Rafi Tulfo was a little bit trending recently dun sa back and forth niya with Galvez, with former General Galvez, Secretary Galvez, dito sa issue ng, you know, yung accusations niya na may corruption daw dun sa, di ba, ito yung demobilization na ginagawa, di ba, sa Mindanao, etc.

We can talk about that also, but you could see na, in fairness to Secretary Galvez, I appreciated him saying immediately, do not say na we're corrupt right away.

Hindi pwede you jump into, hindi ito yung show mo, sir, di ba, this is a Senate hearings and all.

And then nakakatawa yung itsura nila ni Jingo Estrada, tsaka si Aimee, nakaganyan lang sila, pala kayo dyan, parang, you should watch the video, it's an interesting video.

But my point is, okay, we can talk about the pros and cons of this whole Tulfo approach.

And I interviewed him separately, guys can check it out.

But let's talk about Tulfo. I mean, he's the, right, he's the major threat to a return of the Duterte's, right?

I mean, everyone is focused on PI, Chacha, Romualdez, BBM, but by all indications, pag sentimento ng tao tinignan mo, pag mga surveys ang tinignan mo, he keeps on rising.

He was 11% in Establish the other year, now he's 25% sa ibang survey.

And someone was telling me he's actually already number one in some of the surveys that have not been released yet.

Hindi na lang namin sabihin siya.

Ayan, alright?

But just to remind you guys, last year, December, itong kaibigan natin si Secretary Llamas, he said that may nakita siyang survey, you said Pulse Asia in this case,

na actually Lenny and Bam and all were doing well.

Nalik ito two, three weeks later, and that was exactly the point.

Actually, Lenny and Bam were doing pretty well.

So, you know, so on the record, you have been quite correct when you said may alam kang data, hindi mo lang pwede sabihin.

So, I will trust you on this.

Previous time, you were absolutely correct about it.

So, let's talk about TULPO.

I mean, where do you stand on this issue?

What's your analysis?

Sorry, not stand.

Dapat maunawa natin saan siya nang galing.

Isumbong mo kay TULPO.

TULPO in action.

Kahit hindi niya natulungan yung daang-daang libong mga Pilipino,

yung kanyang ethos, yung kanyang mantra na isumbong mo kay TULPO,

eh, karamihan ng mga Pilipino,

kahit sa mga...

sa mga barangay,

yun ang maririnig mo,

isusumbong kita kay TULPO.

Diba?

Pag merong mga mas makapangyarihan o mas mataas sa iyo,

tapos nagreklamo yung mas mababa,

yun yung kanyang expression,

isusumbong kita kay TULPO.

So, it has become a household brand,

yung isumbong kita kay TULPO.

Kaya hindi nakakagulat na yung kanyang party list,

first time tumakbo sa party list,

nag number one.

Yung first time niya tumakbo sa Senate,

nag number two siya.

At ngayon, yung kanyang kapatid,

yung Erwin TULPO,

ay nag na number one sa survey.

Dahil yung kanyang pinanggalingan,

isumbong mo kay TULPO,

TULPO in action,

nakuha yung imagination ng mga tao.

For lack of a better example,

parang si Digong as Punisher.

As Punisher in Davao City.

Pero ito, medyo nationwide na kagad.

Na actually, mas sikat pa kay Digong before.

We had this discussion with Leloy.

Diba sabi ni Leloy?

Well, before,

before we were aware of Digong,

they were already the TULPO brothers.

And they were already in the house.

Actually, the surprise is,

nauna si Digong.

Pero ito, sila hindi tumatakbo.

Pero sila hindi tumatakbo.

Yung unang nakilala,

yung Mon TULPO.

Tapos ngayon, yung TULPO brothers.

Actually, magkakapatid sila lahat.

Tsaka yung sister,

na naging sekretary ng tourism.

So, hindi sila tumatakbo.

Ngayon, tumatakbo na sila.

With a vengeance.

Diba?

With a vengeance.

Kaya,

ikalawa,

medyo may organic sense naman si TULPO.

Organic political sense na

bagamat mataas siya,

bagamat very compelling yung kanyang political narrative,

nagpipigil din siya.

Dahil alam niya,

this early,

pag ikaw yung tumaas,

lahat hihingi sa iyo ng resources

at lahat babanatang ka.

Kaya,

kung oobserbahan mo,

medyo calculated yung kanyang atake.

Alimawa,

una niyang binatakbo,

una niyang binatakbo,

una niyang binatakbo,

una niyang binatakbo,

yung mga bilyar.

No?

Which,

also,

a lot of people loves to hate.

Diba?

Pero,

tingin ko,

pinanggalingan niya.

May mga nagsumbong sa kanya

about the bilyars.

Yung inaagawan ng lupa,

yung inaagawan,

mga magsasakana

ng mga marginalized,

ng mga subdivision.

So,

meron ding

pinanggalingan

yung kanyang banat.

Hindi lang siya

pure calculation.

It's a combination

of calculation

na pwede niyang banatan

yung mga bilyar

na hindi naman

niya

guguluhin pa

yung

political narrative niya.

Pero,

at the same time,

meron mga lumapit sa kanya

na isinusumbong

yung mga bilyar.

Yun yung uninang tinira.

So,

shrewd siya.

He's very shrewd.

I mean,

I actually asked him.

May sarili siya,

may sarili siyang

organic intellect.

Na nagagamit.

Organic intellectual siya.

Wala siyang

mga researchers.

Wala siyang mga advisors.

May pagka

lone wolf yan.

Pero,

in spite of that,

he's not

doing quite well

dun sa kanyang

plano.

Whatever that is.

Yun yung

isang nagagawa niya.

Halimbawa,

nung nakaharap niya

yung napakatalino

at napakabeteranong

senator

Pia Cayetano,

medyo natahimik

si Pia

nung nilabasan niya

yung sinasabi ni Pia.

Wala namang

ebidensya niyan.

Di pinakita niya.

Performance.

Galing.

Performative.

Ganon-ganon.

Hindi ko

sigurado

kung anong

nagasunod doon.

Pero,

nagmarka.

Ako nga,

zinom in ko.

Baka naman,

ano lang yan.

Wala naman nalangit

para tignan ko

ano naman nun.

Pag lumabi ka,

lalo ka niyang gaganit.

It served the purpose.

Di ba?

At saka,

medyo natamebe

si Pia.

Di ba?

Medyo natamebe.

Nilingon-lingon si Pia.

Hindi niya alam

kung ano nangyayari.

Tapos ito,

yung PCSO.

Kinatay na yung PCSO.

Di ba?

Dahil maraming

mga Pilipino,

ito na lang

yung parang

legal wedding.

Di ba?

Ito na lang

yung legal wedding.

STL.

Tapos,

dadayain mo pa

yung mga tao.

Imaginin mo yung

dating ng tulpo brand

doon sa mga

bumibili ng loto.

Di ba?

Okay na okay siya roon.

Kaya,

bagamat

hindi siya masyadong

nag-sosobra,

yung mga

dominant issues

sa bansa,

hindi siya sumasama

masyado.

Cha-cha,

et cetera.

Ganyan nga.

Itong away,

et cetera.

Hindi siya sumasama

masyado dyan.

Pero,

pili yung kanyang

pinipili

ng mga issues

na hindi naman siya

totally mawawala.

At merong mga

sektor na nagmamarka siya

beyond

2025,

going into

2028.

Kaya,

hindi ko siya

i-underestimate.

Hindi ko siya

i-underestimate.

Right.

Definitely,

none of us are

underestimating him.

And speaking of

actually,

definitely not

underestimating,

clearly,

napansin ko,

marami mga DDS ngayon

biglang inaatak siya.

Yung Tulfo.

And nakita ko,

marami sa mga DDS

online,

they go after

anyone who attacks Tulfo.

And I saw,

they also attack me

because they,

you know,

perceive me of not being

tough enough on Tulfo.

I mean,

personally,

as I said,

I have my own

concern sometimes

with the,

you know,

I ask him,

you know,

point blank,

the Tulfo way of justice,

how is this coming in?

I think,

you know,

it's sometimes hit,

it's sometimes miss.

But,

you know,

generally,

I think it has a good intention.

Now,

what I found,

of course,

interesting with the

criticism against Digong

that was okay

with the former president

who was openly calling

for extrajudicial killings

on Moss.

So,

parang,

galit ka sa Tulfo way

kasi hindi niya nire-respect

yung due process.

Sabay,

okay ka kay Digong?

I mean,

that's like crazy.

It's like,

galit ka sa,

I don't know,

yung,

I don't know,

yung DOS mo na may pollution

pero okay ka dun sa Lamborghini

na,

you know what I'm saying,

gas guzzler.

I mean,

you know what I'm saying?

So,

I just found that very weird

if not hypocritical.

Nevertheless,

I mean,

shouldn't we also be

concerned na

if ever he becomes

the next president,

baka mag,

ang next level siyang ganito na

baka maging masyadong

performative,

baka masyadong demagogic,

di ba?

Maging ganyan-ganyan.

Kasi,

that's,

that's,

ano eh,

that's a double-edged sword.

It works.

You get what I'm saying?

You have to be fair

to also criticism

because

this person is still

not the president

but if ever this person

becomes the president

and then ganito yung approach niya,

imagine giving national speeches,

kalaban mo siya,

di ba?

Ang diling dudurugin ka

ng mga,

yan eh,

di ba?

Pwede kasi,

pwede kasi yung isipin

ng mga iba

na,

oh,

wala siyang,

parang wala itong experience

in modernity,

di ba?

Wala siyang one.

He's also a populist

in a way.

Trial by publicity,

isang would say.

Like Digong.

Pero,

ang kaibahan siguro niya,

populist siya

without the extrajudicial killings.

No?

Yun naman yung,

True,

he never supported that.

Yan yung isa,

no?

Pero,

yung iba kasi,

mas tinitignan ito.

Kung maglalaban,

Duterte

and Tulpo,

no?

Maglaless and evil sila.

Di ba?

Ganun yung one eh.

Unless,

merong,

merong black swan

na sumulpot,

no?

Parang may,

may bago ka

na mas,

mas reformist,

mas,

mas modern,

no?

Etcetera.

Pero for now,

parang itong dalawa

yung nagtutunggalian eh.

Kaya binabanatan na siya

nung mga

pro-Sara.

Dahil,

damanan nila na

threat ito eh.

Threat talaga siya.

Oh,

threat na siya.

Dun sa,

kaya Sara.

Sabi nga,

na lolo ko,

pag namumunga yung puno

ng mangga,

binabato na.

So,

binabato na si Tulpo ngayon,

no?

Kaya,

pero,

maraming din naman

na kinakabahan

dahil maraming

question mark eh.

Di ba?

Lalo na

in relation to

modernity,

which is

checks and balance,

which is

civil liberty,

human rights,

etc.

Medyo question mark pa siya.

Pero po,

wala naman siya

sa history niya,

wala naman siyang

ah,

ah,

yung dark side,

no?

Ni Digong,

no?

Which is yung

EJK,

no?

Yung ganun na klase na

kwal.

Mas ang,

mas ang mga,

mas mga binabalat sa kanila

ay,

ah,

yung mga kaso

na tinatapon sa kanila,

bigami,

di ba?

Yun yung mga,

yun yung mga kwal

na baka hindi naman issue

kay big,

big R.

Eh,

okay.

Kay real big R,

medyo,

huli ka na eh,

di ba?

This is a family oriented show.

Okay ba yung,

okay ba yung transference?

Okay ba yung transference?

Ayun naman tayo,

nag-Freud yun,

transference sa therapist,

sa therapist

yung transference.

Pang-therapist din ano ko ha.

Hindi,

ito.

O yun,

inunahan na kita,

baka ibatom mo sa akin eh,

kaya,

hindi,

actually,

yun nga,

because,

kasi yun nga,

nami-misunderstood tayo na,

ako naman,

where I'm coming from is,

I just find it so hypocritical

to question Tulfos

on the due process question

and then sabayit supporta

kay Digong.

I just find it like,

wala akang moral ascendancy

whatsoever

to question the Tulfos.

If you're okay

with what Digong said.

Having said that,

ako rin naman,

I raised that question

with Rafi Tulfo na,

you know,

akin lang naman,

siguro,

on a more positive note,

the glass half full is that,

mukhang may learning curve siya,

di ba?

Anyone who knows him,

I'm talking about Rafi Tulfo,

I don't know about the other brothers,

hindi ko kilala si Ben,

hindi ko kilala si Mon,

so I cannot speak for them.

Si Erwin lang medyo kilala ko

at saka si Rafi,

so it will be unfair naman na

i-ano mo silang lahat

sa isang basket.

Yeah,

they're Tulfo brothers

but each brother

has their own dynamics,

di ba?

As far as Rafi is concerned,

my understanding

from people who know him

and people who are good people

who know him

and you know also

a lot of these people

is that he has learning curve.

You know,

if he makes mistakes,

he recalibrates,

you know,

he's a,

of course,

proud siya,

I don't think he'll admit it openly

but I think behind the scenes,

he's someone who has

a certain level of self-awareness

and self-correctiveness.

Now,

whether that's sufficient enough

for us to say,

perfect siya for 2028,

ibang usapan yan

but for me,

the very least

he opens up the race

and at the very least,

he opens up the space

for a third candidate

and then there's also

the possibility of,

I mean,

I heard some crazy ideas

about him possibly,

who knows,

teaming up with Riza on Tiveras.

I mean,

that would not be

totally out of this world.

I mean,

kasi alam ko,

magandang relationship ni Tulfo

with Vico Soto,

with Riza,

with a lot of progressive people

out there

that people don't know about,

di ba?

So,

there's also the behind the scenes part,

the,

I would say,

the more progressive,

not leaning

but openness

uh,

to Rafi Tulfo

that people are not appreciating.

But again,

I'm just saying this, guys,

kasi alam ko,

marami siyang,

parang may mga,

isa Pinoy,

isa kang resident

ng Pasig,

let's say,

and then may kaso ka,

you go to Rafi,

he will,

like,

refer it

and then coordinate it

with Vico Soto

and then resolve yan sa court.

You get what I'm saying?

Like,

I heard that these cases

are going out there.

I mean,

do you know,

maybe you have better intelligence

than me on this issue,

I don't know,

but this is what I've heard,

including from progressive friends.

Hindi ito yung mga,

operators,

ito yung mga progressive friends.

Pero sa'n yung si ikaw,

operator,

ikaw ang tatulungin ko,

ano nga alam mo dyan?

Ako?

Ako?

Ayan na naman tayo.

Pero ang tingin ko,

he's still a work in progress.

Yun yung,

at,

so far,

yung cup half full,

half empty,

medyo hindi naman siya kulang.

Hindi naman siya kulang.

At,

more full than empty,

in fairness.

At sinusubok akong tignan,

where he's coming from.

At tinitignan ko rin,

sino ba yung kanyang makakalaban?

Kung ito yung kanyang makakalaban,

maraming mga tao na,

siya na yung pupuntahan,

kesa sa isang Duterte.

Yun yung,

unless,

may sumulpot na,

ibang black swan.

Na,

na mas,

dalanda yung bandera,

ng modernity.

Yun yung,

kaya,

malay ko,

baka ikaw,

tatakbo ka.

Ronald,

what's this,

what's with this video

and modernity?

Parang,

modernizing elite,

modernity.

Yun kasi,

yung kasi,

nag-uusapan ni Leloy eh.

Diba,

yun yung nag-uusapan ni Leloy eh.

Laking po na,

modernizing elite.

Max-fiber ka kasi,

nagma-max-fiber ka ng modernity eh.

Ako kasi,

parang ako eh,

socialist ako eh.

Tapos,

yung kaibigan mo,

nagbuo na ng socialist party.

Oo,

ininvita niyo.

Ako,

ako sabi ko,

socialist lang ako eh,

hindi socialist.

Pa-socialan lang.

Parang ako contento

sa modernity lang,

no?

But I like it.

Medyo max-fiber-ish.

Hindi masyadong hegel.

So,

okay lang yan.

Thank you so much,

Sir Ronald Demas.

Let's go to the last episode

kasi eto,

ikaw ang nag-recommend yan.

Pag-usapan natin

ang simbahan

ng Pilipinas,

but we're not talking about

catechism

or religious issues.

I think neither of us

are competent in that matter,

especially you.

But,

let's talk about

the West Philippine Sea issue.

Interesting,

you see religious groups

right now

also pitching in

on the issue

of West Philippines.

Which is, of course,

close to our hearts.

Maraming salamat,

Secretary Ronald Demas,

for that fantastic discussion.

Baka matawag tayo

ni Tulfo Miglama.

Tulfo tayong dalawa.

Okay, okay.

Transition na tayo.

Salamat rin.

Salamat.