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00:00.0
Like nitong EDSA, nitong EDSA anniversary nga, parang a lot of people ask na ngayong Yohada Marcos elected, ano ibig sabihin nun sa spirit of EDSA?
00:09.5
Yung removal ng EDSA doon sa list ng holidays, how big a deal is that?
00:23.1
Magandang araw po sa inyong lahat. Ako po si Christian Esguerra and welcome po sa ating episode ngayong araw.
00:27.8
Very special episode about the EDSA People Power Revolution. Of course, ito po yung linggo kung saan iko-commemorate na naman po natin.
00:36.2
This year, 38 years na po inakalilipas since nagsama-sama po, nagbuklod-buklod yung milyong-milyong mga Pilipino para patalsikin po yung diktador.
00:46.9
Kaso, some reality check lang, no? In 2022, yung pinatalsik po ng pamilya noong 1986, nailukluk po muli sa Malacanang.
00:55.5
Ano po nangyari? Sabi nga ng mga journalist.
00:57.8
So ngayong araw, pag-uusapan po natin yan. At yung recurring question every year, ano pa ba yung relevance ng EDSA para sa atin?
01:06.9
O ano ba dapat yung relevance ng EDSA para sa atin, especially dito po sa current generation?
01:12.7
So kasama po natin ngayong araw, in this very special episode, siya po yung apo ng democracy icons na si Ninoy and Cory Aquino.
01:21.5
Siya rin po yung Deputy Executive Director ng Ninoy and Cory Aquino Foundation. I'd like to welcome...
01:27.8
Welcome to our podcast sa Facts First, Kiko D.
01:31.3
Ayan, Sir Christian. Thank you very much po sa pagtanggap today.
01:34.4
Huwag mo ko i-sir, no? Nag-uusap tayo. Sabi ko, papatandain mo ko.
01:38.8
Unang-una, Kiko, kuwanting pagpapakilala mo na, no? So, ano ang pinakakabalahan mo bukod dito sa foundation?
01:44.8
Well, first of all, not to age people again, pero millennial ako. Kasi yung anyari, I think medyo henerasyon ko pa yun, di ba?
01:52.7
Mali pala ako. Okay. Mali ako.
01:53.9
Yeah, nakaka-relate pa rin ako doon eh.
01:57.8
Executive Director ng Ninoy and Cory Aquino Foundation.
02:00.4
I think yung main project namin right now is we are renovating yung Aquino Center and Museum.
02:07.3
This is the museum po that chronicles yung story ni na Senator Ninoy and President Cory.
02:13.9
And dahil nga si President Pinoy passed away last 2021, we want to include his story as well in the narrative of the exhibit.
02:27.8
Also, parang the center was set up noong early 2000s, unang renovation. It's the first renovation in almost two decades.
02:36.4
So, medyo matagal-tagal po yung proseso, but we want to make sure we're telling it correctly.
02:41.4
Siyempre, ano, we're also involved in the EDSA commemoration this year. So, gaya ng pinag-usapan natin dati.
02:48.1
Tindig Pilipinas actually called for several organizations to meet and discuss how to commemorate yung EDSA for 2024
02:55.6
given nga na tinanggal yung...
02:57.8
Or hindi sinamay yung EDSA sa official list of holidays na in-announced last year.
03:03.7
Kaso, may bumulaga sa atin. Parang nasurprise tayo na may charter change efforts na biglang nangyayari at the start of the year.
03:11.8
So, kasama na yan sa advocacy.
03:13.2
Yeah, parang hindi rin may iwasan yan. It came up, all of the groups, nag-discuss kami lahat and we're all on the same page na kailangan talagang i-oppose yung mga efforts na ito.
03:22.7
Bago natin pag-usapin yung EDSA itself at yung CHA-CHA, ikaw muna konting pagpapakilala.
03:28.4
I understand you teach, no?
03:29.8
Yes, oo. I'm also a senior lecturer. So, parang part-time member ako ng faculty ng UP Department of Political Science.
03:36.7
Although yung hinahandle kong courses ay mas social statistics related. So, medyo naiba ng konti sa...
03:42.9
Ang geekan yun, ha? Geeky stuff yan, ha?
03:45.0
Yeah, actually. Kasi parang you need several parts of your life na medyo iba, no?
03:49.9
So, parang pag nasa akin na foundation ako, parang it's a lot of history work, a lot of reading, a lot of text.
03:55.2
Tapos pag nagtuturo naman ako, it's more...
03:57.8
It's more number-y.
03:59.5
Different problems.
04:00.8
Pero fun pa rin. Kahit paano.
04:02.5
Okay, so yun dalawang ginadruggle mo?
04:06.1
Are you married or still single?
04:08.7
Okay, ang age mo ay sabi, millennial ka?
04:11.1
Yeah, I'm millennial. I am the latter half of the millennial. So, 1991 po ako pinanganak. I'm 32?
04:19.7
Yeah, actually ano. So, gen Z, I think, dapat alam ko ito since that. Pero I think it's like 1998.
04:25.9
Ah, medyo malayo pa.
04:27.8
Pero parang, I think yung tidbit ko nun is, ako yung last of the apos ni Lola Corrie na pinanganak noong presidency pa.
04:37.6
And actually, narealize ko lang ito late last year na ako lang ata yung hindi nakaranas ng kudeta.
04:45.8
Or I'm the oldest na hindi nakaranas ng kudeta. Kasi I was born November 1991.
04:51.5
And then, I think the most, the big coup was, the two big coups were 87 and 89.
04:57.8
So, yung mga, ano, yung dalawang older kong pinsan, immediately older than me, baka baby pa lang sila noon.
05:04.8
Pero yung two eldest namin, I think, one was born before the revolution, one was born just after.
05:11.1
Parang, may memories pa rin talaga sila nung tumataka. Like, parang, when si Lola stayed, of course, pero yung ibang members of the family having to flee Malacanang and everything.
05:19.6
So, that's really, ano, wala. Parang, fresh realization lang siya.
05:22.8
Magandang tidbit yan, eh.
05:24.7
Basically, that's what you do.
05:25.8
Pero maganda kasi yung, ano, yung ikaw yung isa sa mga naglilid nitong EDSA commemoration because of your age, because of your perspective.
05:33.5
Kasi, bukod sa part ka ng family, you're also part of this generation.
05:38.0
We're supposed to remember. Tama ba?
05:39.7
Yeah, oo. And parang very striking nga, eh. Kasi I think we had yung, I think we did, I did two press conferences related to itong buhay ng EDSA.
05:49.3
The first one, siguro, sampu kaming nasa harap.
05:52.5
Four out of ten were not there during EDSA.
05:54.8
Tapos, I think I was, ako na natin yung pinakamatanda among the people who weren't there sa EDSA.
05:59.6
So, parang that was like a big deal.
06:01.3
And then, one week later, nagkaroon din ng press event with puro student organizations naman.
06:06.7
So, yan, mga edad ng studyante ko na yung mga kasama ko noon.
06:09.5
And I was very much the oldest person there.
06:11.2
So, talagang nakaka, it's really exciting to see na may andaming, I'm not really the youth representative na nga anymore, eh.
06:19.8
Kasi ang daming mga mas bata na naninindigan rin na, um, siyempre for Chacha.
06:24.8
That's the most immediate concern.
06:26.1
But at the same time, yung nakikita nila yung value ng EDSA.
06:30.2
At this point, they still hear yung mga comments coming from people.
06:33.7
Ako kasi at my age, matanda ako sa iyo, ng konti sa iyo, no.
06:37.1
Nandidinig ko pa rin, sinasabi,
06:39.0
Why are you opposed to Marshall, oh?
06:41.9
Bakit, uh, you talk about EDSA?
06:45.0
Although, buhay na naman ako noong time na yun, oh.
06:46.5
Pero Marshall, oh, hindi.
06:47.5
Hindi, buhay ako ng tail end ng Marshall, oh.
06:49.9
I was born in 79, eh.
06:51.5
Diba, 81 siya, nilift officially.
06:53.1
Although, yung authoritarian regime, actually, happened until 1986.
06:58.4
Pero people still say na, hindi ka pa naman buhay, no.
07:01.0
Masyado ka pang bata.
07:02.1
Why do they keep talking about that?
07:03.5
Do you also encounter that, even today?
07:06.7
I think, medyo swerte ako in two respects.
07:09.9
One, so parang yung main network ko si Ruro Family, tsaka UP.
07:13.6
Medyo, ano, parang kita naman nila na mahalaga yung role na kabataan na yung
07:19.4
magsasalita, nagdibigay ng opinions about history natin.
07:22.8
So, parang in that respect, I'm a bit lucky na yung immediate network ko is
07:27.3
receptive to the kind of things I talk about.
07:29.7
Pero, syempre, ano, parang hindi naman, aware naman ako na a lot of people
07:36.0
might feel that way as well.
07:38.0
Online, at least, online.
07:40.1
Again, I'm very, I guess, lucky na nung pumutok yung social media,
07:47.0
ay parang dinibdib ko yung pagka-introvert ko and I didn't really go into it that deeply.
07:51.8
But you're in social media.
07:52.8
I have a Facebook page na private and, syempre, the foundation has its own social media
07:58.3
and I'm very grateful sa mga naghahandle noon at I'm grateful na hindi ako yun.
08:03.3
So, medyo insulated ka rin.
08:04.7
May pagka, may pagka.
08:05.9
But, yun, we're going out more of it now and we're aware naman na it's a difficult thing to talk about right now.
08:13.1
Parang, there are, on the one hand, there are a lot of forces na talagang intent,
08:19.4
but yung intention nila is to push down the story, the gains of EDSA and that's something.
08:26.5
These are well-equipped forces and these are things na, I think, ngayon pa lang namin,
08:32.6
ngayon pa lang namin nadidiscover here the ways that we can sort of fight back against that.
08:37.9
Pero, when did you realize that? Yung effort to bury it?
08:43.4
Siguro, ano? Parang, I distinctly remember yung unang parang very pro-Marcos YouTube video
08:49.3
na napanood ko was maybe in 2012.
08:53.5
Although, of course, si President Marcos ngayon, he ran for Senate.
08:57.5
Ironically, the same time na naging presidente si Tito Noy, 2010.
09:01.3
And he was elected by, he was elected at that time.
09:05.0
So, parang, as early as that point.
09:06.6
And even further back, alam ko yung SWS had a forum, I forget if it was last, 2022 or 2023,
09:13.3
about parang tracing the roots of yung Marcos restoration.
09:18.5
And in a way, parang, their findings were, the effort was always there.
09:22.8
There was always, if not a majority, at least a sizable minority na,
09:26.5
that were supportive of the Marcoses.
09:30.9
Na hindi naman talaga nawala, eh, no?
09:32.3
Yeah, hindi naman talaga nawala.
09:33.5
Kasi parang, ayun, like, as early as 1992 nga eh.
09:36.6
Parang, di ba, si Imelda State, like, ran for president.
09:41.4
And sa dami na mga kandidato noon, I think their votes got split and we were saved from the restoration at that point.
09:47.0
But, it's clear na.
09:48.0
It's a continuing struggle.
09:49.3
Na parang, and I guess the important thing to point out is the reason why we care about it so much
09:55.0
is because, at least, both dahil parte ako ng pamilya ko
09:59.0
and because, also, medyo babad ako sa polis ay,
10:01.8
democracy is a very important value for me and for us, no?
10:06.4
So, parang, at least for me, when I think about democracy,
10:10.0
yung idea kasi is, you know, parang, any society, any group of people that's composed of individuals, right?
10:18.0
those individuals need to make a decision as a group.
10:20.9
Parang, kailangan, hindi pwede kanya-kanyang.
10:23.3
We need to make a decision as a group.
10:24.9
So, in situations like that, democracy lang yung sistema na parang mag-proproduce siya ng group decision.
10:31.1
Pero, kinikilala pa rin yan na may minority na hindi nasunod.
10:36.0
So, parang, even if someone was elected with 60% of the vote, there's still 40% that was not, who are still part of the society.
10:43.9
Constituent mo pa rin.
10:44.6
Oh, constituent mo pa rin.
10:45.7
That was not, that did not support it.
10:48.0
And, parang, that's something that elections make clear.
10:51.0
Na, parang, it's, we can make a decision as a group kahit na we're not completely in agreement.
10:56.6
Kasi, if you compare to, yun, nung panahon ng martial law, lahat na mga desisyon ni Marco Sr.,
11:02.7
walang say yung taong bayan doon, di ba?
11:04.6
Parang, all of the human rights abuses that happened before, parang, before the revolution from an external eye,
11:13.1
you couldn't help but conclude na, is this something that the people supported?
11:17.4
Because, nga, hindi dumadaan sa taong bayan yung mga ganong desisyon.
11:21.0
Pero, at least now, with a democracy, it's clear na, if there is opposition, even if we don't get what we want in the election, we can make it clear.
11:29.9
So, parang, I think that's something that's really, I think that's something that's really worth protecting.
11:34.8
That's a very important perspective about democracy.
11:37.3
Speaking of those who were not part of the bigger whole, no?
11:40.6
Part of the bigger whole, pero not part of that group decision.
11:43.7
Like, example yun sa EDSA, di ba?
11:47.4
But, syempre, meron pa rin constituency na, alam mong, loyal sa mga Marcos, we're not exactly in favor of that.
11:54.8
How do you think that was handled?
11:57.1
And, yun ba yung naging dahilan kung bakit nagkaroon ng, ano, parang, big comeback yung mga Marcos as of 2022?
12:04.3
Well, I think on the one hand, parang, how it was handled immediately nung term ng Lola Corrico.
12:09.0
I think, during one of the coup d'etats, she made very clear na yung sinabi, or I think it was at the end of it.
12:17.4
Siya noon na, I have, something to the effect of, it's not a direct quote, but something to the effect of, I have closed all other paths to power except the ballot.
12:25.9
So, yung ginawa niya was, kung gusto niyo maging presidente, hindi niyo ito makukuha via coup, hindi niyo ito makukuha via declaring martial law, hindi niyo ito makukuha through any other means except by going through an election.
12:39.0
So, I think the reason nga na naging sobrang matatag siya na, alam mo, parang inisip ko, like, if you think of the EDSA revolution as,
12:47.2
as a coup, a foiled coup, parang in a way, si Marco Sr., he left after the first coup.
12:54.1
Si Lola stayed for nine coups, despite all the threats to her life.
12:57.8
And the reason why she stayed that long was, I think, yun yun, parang to make sure na itong balota lang yung makakapagbigay ng kapangyarihan sa kahit sinong, or at least presidential power to any person in the country.
13:11.7
Since then, since then, syempre, I think, I guess there was,
13:17.2
there was some, siguro ano, some complacency in terms of, for example, just in terms of the Aquino Foundation, which I'm in charge of,
13:26.8
yung mandate niya is to perpetuate the legacy of Ninoy, Corey, and now si, well, Ninoy, and then after Lola Corey passed away, Lola Corey, and then after Tito Noy passed away, Tito Noy.
13:38.4
The way they did that nung after my Lola's term was, parang they did a lot of, parang kawang gawa, parang we were involved in, initially, farmers cooperatives,
13:47.2
um, we, later on, we became involved in things like microfinance, um, we did, like, we had leadership programs, ganon.
13:57.1
But all of this were, sort of, the idea was to tell the story indirectly, na parang gumawa ng kawang gawa, and then, in that way, dun nagiging relevant yung kwento ni Lola.
14:06.0
Parang bubuhayin mo yung edsa, or keeping it alive to those activities.
14:08.7
But without necessarily blatantly telling the story.
14:12.4
Syempre, parang we'd come out with documentaries every so often, or books every so often.
14:15.8
Pero yung day-to-day work ng foundation, hindi ganon eh.
14:18.3
So I think now, I think what we're seeing is, it's important to, yung ganong storytelling, very direct storytelling, na ito yung mga nagawa nila, ito yung mga prinsipyo nila, um, ito yung mga, ito yung mga bunga ng mga sakripisyon nila.
14:32.1
I think that's something we feel is much more important to do now.
14:36.0
And we're still learning how to do now, kasi nga, parang for the longest time, that's not really what our main focus was.
14:40.4
Pero syempre, hindi lang naman ano yun, kasalanan ng foundation.
14:43.6
Because it should have been an effort by...
14:45.8
Many other people.
14:46.5
For sure, for sure.
14:47.0
Parang reminding them about this, uh, crucial and awesome victory in 1986.
14:52.1
Parang kulang yata tayo rin sa pagtatakto sa memory ng, ano eh, ng lipunan eh.
14:56.3
Na ito, important ito.
14:57.6
I always, uh, characterize it as, uh, if this were a movie, kung tinapos mo yung movie dyan, okay na eh, masaya lahat eh.
15:04.1
Problema, life goes on.
15:05.3
Correct, correct.
15:05.9
So yun ang, mukhang maraming pagkukulang.
15:08.1
Example sa education, diba?
15:09.5
Hindi masyadong na-ingrain sa mga estudyante natin since then.
15:12.5
Oh, although I guess, parang being a teacher rin, in a way, 19...
15:13.8
Parang being a teacher rin, in a way, naintindihan ko siya na parang, um, and in a very micro way, naintindihan ko siya na parang sa isang semestre, I have, for example, 16 weeks to cover a syllabus.
15:25.5
At madalas, paano nangyayari, parang dahil sa mga delays or whatever, yung nako-cover ko is, at siguro, yung nako-cover ko ng, with the pace that I would like, is maybe 80 to 90 percent of it.
15:37.8
Tapos yung huling 10 percent, medyo mamatiliin na, diba?
15:40.6
And if you talk about Philippine history, kung isang year mo lang gagawin...
15:43.8
Hindi, parang, it's a similar problem, no? Parang you have to talk about the, um, the pre-colonial period, the Spanish period, isang quarter yan, and then parang, um, World War II, or the American period, then World War II, parang isang quarter yan, and then you have a whole, isang quarter nilang natira for post-war, and then yung EDSA, ano, ano yan, like one or two weeks at best.
16:07.7
So parang, ano, like, I think, um, there are clear things to be improved, and I think, ano, parang...
16:13.8
Yung, I think it's good na merong, yung, there's a lot of advocacy right now about, um, history and the curriculum, and I think that's something I would support.
16:25.3
And hopefully, ano, parang just, even beyond, or in addition to curriculum review, teaching, finding more effective ways to do it, just to decompress, na parang spread it out across two years, give people more time to appreciate these things.
16:39.1
Parang, I think there are simpler things that can be pursued also.
16:42.5
But I suppose, mas challenging ngayon, at the same time, as may opportunities available, no?
16:46.5
Because, nung kinaraf yung old curriculum, wala pa naman sigurong ganong katinding influence in social media.
16:53.3
E ngayon, may challenge coming from social media because of these efforts to bury the EDSA narrative, pero you can also make use of that same platform.
17:01.5
Correct, correct.
17:02.7
And, but it's, ano, it's really learning how to use new muscles, diba?
17:06.3
Like, again, parang may pagka-ironic na, alam niyo, parang I am...
17:12.5
Again, like, I got Facebook when it was popular, pero parang, I think I had the Twitter account nung campaign ni Tito Noy nung 2010, pero after that, never ko na siya ulit ginamit.
17:24.1
Diba ka pala? You're a different...
17:26.3
Medyo, hindi, like, parang, I lurk on YouTube a lot.
17:30.0
So, mas yun yung ano ko.
17:31.7
Pero, yun yung source of entertainment ko.
17:33.7
Pero, wala. It's learning to use new muscles na, parang, at least for me personally, na ang mindset ko ay yung social media.
17:42.5
Ano naman lang yan to, okay, it's a tool to actually pursue the goals or what I believe are the noble goals of the foundation, diba?
17:52.6
So, parang, it's again, changing mindset lang na when I open my app, I shouldn't just be wasting time, I should be doing it, I should be doing something on it.
18:01.3
Kaso, hindi lahat ng mga Pilipino ganun mag-isip, no?
18:03.5
Well, to be fair, hindi naman, ano, parang...
18:05.5
Ano yan? Usually, entertainment, it's personal to reach out to other people.
18:08.2
And I think, honestly, parang, kung yun lang yung naging gamit ng social media...
18:12.5
Or, since the dawn of its existence, baka okay pa eh.
18:14.8
Pero, parang, yun nga eh.
18:16.6
Like, yung, I think, other people found out early on na, parang, you can also use it to pursue larger ends.
18:25.1
Some that are nicer, some that are less nice.
18:27.4
And I think, parang, siguro, pagkukulang na lang ng side natin na, yun, we're kind of catching up on that.
18:33.5
By the way, nabulagaba ka ikaw personally with what happened?
18:36.1
Kasi, based on my conversations with people who were in the know,
18:40.4
talaga matagal nagsimula yung effort to...
18:42.5
To bury the edge sa narrative, to demonize the Akinos,
18:47.5
and to actually, talagang dito, gawing saint yung to canonize the Marcoses on social media.
18:55.5
Pero, pero kayo, ikaw personally, kailan ka parang nabulagab?
18:59.8
Oh my God, ito na pala yung nangyayari sa social media.
19:02.7
So, I think, again, parang, I'm trying to rebuild it in my head.
19:09.7
Or slow burn ba siya?
19:11.1
Siguro, mas ganun.
19:12.5
Kasi, parang, yun, I saw my first, ano, I saw my first pro-Marcos, anti-Akino narrative YouTube video nung bandang 2012.
19:22.0
Siguro, before that.
19:23.3
Kasi, ang, I guess, yung life story ko is,
19:26.1
sophomore ako sa college nung naging presidente yung tito ko.
19:30.4
And, syempre, if you're familiar with UP, wala naman silang presidente na nagustuhan.
19:33.9
So, medyo sanay ako na, ano, parang medyo on the back foot yung name na Akino.
19:40.1
Even, even not with...
19:42.3
Not against the Marcos narrative, but against the narrative ng more left-leaning groups naman.
19:48.4
Kumbaga, defensive ka kaagad.
19:49.7
Right. So, in a way, parang sanay ako na, like, on the back foot ako when it comes to my name.
19:55.7
Pero, the idea na, that the anti-Akino narrative that people would cling on to was yung very pro-Marcos,
20:08.8
nostalgic for authoritarianism,
20:11.2
almost bloodthirsty,
20:12.3
since we saw that translate into yung, um, into yung support nga for President Duterte.
20:17.4
That, siguro, I guess, 2016 was a very, ano, parang a very heartbreaking moment.
20:24.0
Na, siguro, not on the day of the election, kasi nga survey yung tinuturo ko,
20:27.8
but, like, following the surveys for a while.
20:29.7
Parang, I forget what month it was na parang nag-overtake si Duterte,
20:34.3
and it seemed like it wasn't going, ano, parang it wasn't going in the opposite direction.
20:39.3
So, I guess that's when it kind of sunk into me na,
20:42.9
um, mukhang iba na nga yung iip ng hangin.
20:46.5
Oo nga, yung swing kasi ng pendulum from one opposite to the other, kasi nang bilis eh.
20:51.4
Yeah, and it's very puzzling, no?
20:53.6
And parang, I was talking to one of my mentors nga sa polisay na, for her, yung puzzle nga was,
20:59.8
it's not just one swing to another, pero it's one swing na historically,
21:03.9
nung panahon ni Tito, no, historic highs yun for approval ratings of a president,
21:09.1
on to a second president who, I believe,
21:12.3
did the opposite, pero historically even higher pa ngayong...
21:15.4
So, it's not from, hindi siya parang nag-sink,
21:18.7
nung sobrang, sobrang nag-sink yung popularity ni Tito Noy,
21:22.4
and then that resulted in Duterte winning.
21:24.6
He finished with, I think, I do not have it off the top of my head,
21:28.8
pero feeling, si yung Tito Noy ko, parang he finished at, I think, gross 50% approval,
21:33.8
which is like, kung western leader ka, sobrang, oh my god, that's so high, di ba?
21:38.2
Pero parang kay Duterte, he finished naman with, I think, gross at least 75%.
21:42.9
Or baka net 75 pa ngayon, not sure.
21:44.8
But like, parang, so it's really a puzzle, no?
21:47.8
And parang another thing that's very puzzling, for example,
21:50.3
like nitong EDSA anniversary nga, parang a lot of people ask na,
21:54.6
ngayong you had a Marcos elected, not just a Marcos supporter,
21:59.5
but the son, the proud son, the namesake, elected with a historic majority.
22:04.6
Ano ibig sabihin nun sa spirit of EDSA?
22:06.3
But again, SWS had a survey nung 2022, kung di ako nagkakamali,
22:10.7
na parang tinanong nila,
22:12.3
buhay pa ba ang diwa ng EDSA?
22:13.9
Is it still important to celebrate the EDSA anniversary?
22:16.8
And you had solid majorities in favor of both statements, di ba?
22:20.8
So parang, what's going on here na, at the same time,
22:24.9
there's a majority in support for President Marcos,
22:27.5
but also there's a majority that say that EDSA is still worth fighting for,
22:31.1
or still worth remembering at the very least.
22:33.8
Hindi siya either or.
22:35.8
And it brings me back pa nga as early as 2010,
22:39.0
kasi yung medyo, nung nasa UP pa ako,
22:41.8
parang, one of the things I like to study was yung exit poll nung 2010
22:46.1
para sa, nung election ng tito ko.
22:48.7
And parang, one of the things that I saw is like,
22:50.6
there's like, siyempre, most people who voted for Pinoy did not vote for Marcos,
22:55.2
and most, and vice versa, I think.
22:58.1
But there was like a small 5% or 5 to 10% of the population
23:02.1
that voted for both of them.
23:03.9
So ako parang, okay, sino siya?
23:05.7
I mean, it's not a huge, I guess.
23:07.6
Baka this might not move the needle in the grand scheme of things.
23:10.4
Pero parang, ako personally,
23:11.8
I'm curious ako dun sa,
23:13.3
ano yung naratibo ng EDSA ng history ng Pilipinas
23:18.8
na inisip ng 5 to 10% na yan?
23:21.5
And is it something that,
23:23.8
it's very hard, I think, for me,
23:28.3
with what I experience, to think in terms of common ground.
23:30.9
Pero parang, just academically, it sounds like there's a common ground.
23:34.0
Kasi, there's a significant segment of the population
23:38.7
that thinks na, it's not about the Marcoses,
23:41.8
or the Aquinos only, yung EDSA, diba?
23:44.1
Yeah, and we would agree with that statement.
23:46.7
Ako ma parang, honestly, yung personal view ko is,
23:50.4
parang, isa lang yung pinaka-main character ng kwento ng EDSA
23:55.5
is taong bayan, and yung kontrabida is the Marcoses.
23:58.9
Parang, side character lang sina Ninoy, Cory, all of these people.
24:02.8
Siyempre, parang they had their time.
24:04.4
Kailangan rallying point.
24:06.6
And, parang ano, in a way, you can see na,
24:11.8
how would I put it?
24:13.1
Parang, in a way, like, in a sense, side character sila.
24:15.8
Kasi, parang, alam mo yun, when their role is done,
24:17.7
parang sa isang, ano, like, TV series sa isang season,
24:20.7
side character ka kapag tapos na yung arc mo.
24:23.1
Exit ka na sa season, diba?
24:24.9
And, in a way, parang, si Lola Halimbawa, parang,
24:27.8
she was president when her time was up.
24:31.2
Siyempre, she was still, ano, parang,
24:32.7
she still lent her voice to causes that she cared about,
24:35.6
pero di na siya naghanap ng, she didn't seek power again.
24:38.6
In fact, si Tito Noy nga, even when he ran for senator,
24:41.8
parang, may mga kwento-kwento.
24:42.8
He would've wanted to run in 92 as soon as Lola stepped down,
24:47.3
Pero, parang, si Lola, parang, was like,
24:49.4
I forget kung ano yung diretsyon yung sinabi kay Tito Noy,
24:53.0
pero, parang, in her mind, was like,
24:54.9
pwede mag-break muna tayo.
24:56.1
Parang, nakakapagod yung pinagdaan.
24:58.0
He wanted to run for what?
24:59.6
Congressman, at the time, right?
25:00.9
So, kaya he ran nung 1998.
25:02.8
And, even then, I think, parang,
25:04.7
I don't know if it was, parang, a very, very intense interview
25:07.9
or, like, an essay na pinasulat niya kay Tito Noy
25:10.6
to explain why he wanted to run.
25:12.3
Pero, it was only at that point na hinayaan siya.
25:14.8
And then, same with Tito Noy, no?
25:16.2
So, parang, he served as congressman,
25:17.6
he served as senator, he served as president.
25:19.5
And, even though, parang, marami sa mga nangyayari was not,
25:23.3
yun, parang, labag sa prinsipyo niya after his term.
25:26.0
In the end, parang, he knew his time was up.
25:27.6
He lent his voice to causes that were important
25:32.8
or when people asked for it.
25:34.0
Pero, he didn't insist on being there, right?
25:35.6
And, he was very low-key, actually.
25:36.8
Right, he was quite low-key, in fact.
25:38.3
Hinahanap nga siya, eh.
25:40.3
So, parang, in the sense,
25:41.8
same way na parang sometimes you miss
25:43.9
one of your favorite characters in a TV series.
25:46.5
Pero, pag tapos na yung kwento nila,
25:47.6
tapos na yung kwento nila.
25:48.5
So, parang, in a way,
25:50.8
so, yun, parang, what's the main story is really,
25:53.9
may yung bida talaga ng kwento is
25:56.3
tayo, not ako as Aquino,
25:59.2
pero tayo, bayan,
26:00.9
and this other family.
26:03.6
Yung narrative na yan,
26:04.6
how do you keep that narrative alive now?
26:07.8
Given that Philippine society,
26:10.3
or Filipinos are very personal,
26:11.8
in terms of relations,
26:14.2
in terms of electing people,
26:15.9
we assign personalities lagi, eh.
26:18.9
So, paano mo sasabihin na ito yung bida, yung Pilipino?
26:21.5
Eh, walang mukha yun.
26:22.8
To belabor the TV series analogy na baka,
26:26.8
baka masyadong gasgas na.
26:29.4
Diba sa TV series, anong nangyari?
26:31.2
Parang, yung bida isang tao,
26:33.4
tapos yung kontrabida parang pabago-bago
26:38.0
Baka tayo, baliktad, na parang yung kontrabida,
26:40.8
hindi naman isang tao.
26:42.8
Pero in a way, parang pare-pareho yung nakikita natin.
26:46.8
Yung qualities siguro ng bad guy.
26:48.8
Yeah, the qualities,
26:50.8
and sometimes the surnames,
26:52.8
sometimes the specific faces paulit-ulit.
26:54.8
Pero yung bida, parang pabago-bago din.
26:56.8
So parang, tama naman.
26:58.8
Maybe that's why mahirap yung ano,
27:00.8
maybe that's why mahirap yung laban natin,
27:02.8
na parang personalistic yung Pilipino.
27:04.8
Yung mga kontrabida,
27:06.8
parang sila-sila pa natin.
27:08.8
Sanay sila sa mukhasan nila.
27:10.8
Sanay sila sa apelido.
27:12.8
Whereas yung bida, parang...
27:16.8
Yung mga bida, parang hindi...
27:18.8
Are not power hungry in the same way that other people are.
27:22.8
So parang it's...
27:24.8
Perhaps ano, parang there's something to learn from that.
27:26.8
But yun, baka that's what's going on now.
27:30.8
By the way, when did you get involved dito sa foundation?
27:32.8
So I think ano, parang...
27:36.8
So I had a brief stint with the foundation
27:42.8
So siguro this was from
27:48.8
And then I left for a long period of time.
27:50.8
I became active again in
27:54.8
I think officially naging deputy executive
27:56.8
director ako nung May of 2023.
27:58.8
Actually, yung story nun...
28:00.8
Wait, sorry. Bumalik ka nung
28:02.8
after elections yung 2022.
28:04.8
So actually, on that point nga, parang
28:06.8
kasi nga, again, since surveys,
28:08.8
medyo naniniwala rin ako doon.
28:12.8
midway through the
28:14.8
2022 campaign, medyo na
28:16.8
narealize ko na rin na okay, mukhang
28:20.8
nothing certain in elections pero
28:22.8
most likely outcome na manalala si
28:24.8
President BBM na. So
28:28.8
Parang may pagkakrisis
28:30.8
yun, you can imagine, since like
28:32.8
as in Aquino and everything. Pero parang the thing
28:34.8
that calmed me down was the idea na
28:36.8
okay, kung manalala man si BBM,
28:38.8
si VP Lenny or whatever
28:40.8
other candidate, may problema pa rin
28:42.8
in terms of the way people remember
28:46.8
Lola Cory, Tito Noy, no matter who wins.
28:50.8
no matter who wins, that's something that I can do.
28:52.8
So parang yun yung nagpakalma
28:54.8
sa akin na okay, after
28:58.8
I forget the date of the election na, on 2022.
29:00.8
May 9. May 9, thank you.
29:02.8
After that day, my next...
29:04.8
my day 2, my day 1, May 10
29:06.8
would be okay, let's
29:08.8
work sa... let's get back
29:10.8
to the foundation. Ang bilis na nga naman.
29:12.8
Wala ano, kasi parang...
29:14.8
Mabilis in a way kasi parang
29:16.8
alam mo yun, parang there's
29:18.8
no certainty, pero I think
29:20.8
again, teaching statistics, diba? The way
29:22.8
the human brain works, we don't really deal
29:24.8
with uncertainty well, diba? Either mamayari
29:26.8
siya o hindi. So kahit na
29:28.8
alam ko, hindi naman certain yung outcome ng
29:30.8
election. Parang your
29:32.8
brain doesn't grapple with okay, there's a
29:34.8
25% chance na ito yung mangyayari and
29:36.8
a 20% chance na ito yung mangyayari, 5% chance.
29:38.8
You have to stick to one and then
29:40.8
work plan accordingly when you
29:42.8
visualize, right? So I just stuck parang
29:44.8
midway through the election, parang
29:48.8
Sumali pa rin ako sa house to house, syempre. Since parang
29:50.8
you... parang in the sense
29:52.8
na ayoko magpatalo sa survey, right?
29:54.8
So sumali pa rin ako sa house to house. But
29:56.8
my head was also thinking, okay, if this is
29:58.8
the most likely outcome, what
30:00.8
is my next step? Kasi bad outcome
30:04.8
find peace with it? So parang ay...
30:06.8
siguro I had a head start with
30:08.8
coping compared to
30:10.8
a lot of other people. That's when you
30:12.8
decided to rejoin the foundation? Yeah.
30:14.8
I remember it very specifically. Parang nasa
30:16.8
isang kwarto ako sa room nang
30:18.8
mag-isa lang ako. Nasa isang
30:20.8
kwarto ako sa bahay and then parang yun,
30:22.8
I was having this internal crisis na okay,
30:24.8
paano nga kung manalo si
30:26.8
Marcos? What do I do? And
30:28.8
yun, parang that's what gave
30:30.8
me comfort. Okay.
30:32.8
Gusto ko ako sa i-compare mo yung ano, yung
30:36.8
commemorating EDSA
30:38.8
before Marcos Jr. and now
30:40.8
that he's the president. Okay. Kasi
30:42.8
very ironic yan, diba? Pinatalsik
30:44.8
mo yung tatay, i-elect mo yung anak.
30:46.8
So mahaba yung discussion
30:48.8
regarding the reasons, pero we won't
30:50.8
belabor that point. Gusto ko pag-usapan,
30:52.8
mas challenging ba ngayon para
30:54.8
sa inyo to remind people
30:56.8
about the decains and the
31:00.8
given what's happening now? Siguro ano,
31:02.8
I guess my first point is para
31:04.8
parang, again, since yung
31:06.8
NCAF, yung focus niya talaga
31:08.8
has been yun, parang doing other
31:10.8
areas of parang development
31:14.8
I personally, siguro yung
31:16.8
mga ano, parang yung
31:20.8
our executive director si Rapa Lopa and then
31:22.8
like the previous sort of
31:24.8
the previous people
31:26.8
who were like staff and like members of
31:28.8
NCAF were maybe more involved in the EDSA commemoration.
31:30.8
Pero I myself, ito yung first
31:32.8
year na talagang directly involved
31:34.8
kami sa commemoration.
31:36.8
So I don't have that solid
31:38.8
point of comparison. Pero to
31:40.8
listen to the people I'm
31:42.8
working with, parang it's not, hindi nga yung
31:44.8
ano eh, hindi nga yung
31:48.8
it's not this year when it started
31:50.8
becoming difficult. It started becoming difficult
31:52.8
with the last administration. Duterte, yeah.
31:54.8
So, and parang... Actually dinisregard niya eh.
31:58.8
dinisregard. And I hear
32:00.8
actually ano eh, parang I hear
32:02.8
conflicting things sometimes eh. Parang there are some people
32:04.8
who say, yun, parang last
32:06.8
year was interesting kasi parang it's the first
32:10.8
Marcos, kumakapag mga tao.
32:12.8
So the celebrations, I think
32:14.8
everyone agrees, were a lot more subdued
32:16.8
compared to this year. Of course this year, there's
32:18.8
an additional layer na may
32:20.8
charter change issue na pinag-usapan.
32:22.8
So I think that along with
32:24.8
yung pagtanggal ng holiday, really
32:26.8
lit the fire under all of these
32:28.8
groups to campaign.
32:30.8
Pero, so parang some people would say it's a little
32:34.8
I don't know if the word is more challenging
32:36.8
per se, pero it is
32:38.8
definitely more charged or
32:42.8
Not heated, pero yun. It's more charged
32:44.8
now. Parang a lot of people are much
32:48.8
siguro gung-ho about...
32:50.8
Emboldened? Emboldened, yeah. That's a good
32:54.8
Whereas under Duterte, I think it's the same
32:56.8
thing na people were sort of ano,
32:58.8
parang tinatansya nila na okay,
33:00.8
this person is very clearly not...
33:04.8
taong to are very clearly
33:08.8
EDSA stood for. How do we
33:10.8
celebrate under them? And there was still
33:12.8
big celebrations until 2018,
33:14.8
but it kind of tapered off after
33:16.8
that point. Pero yung last year, yung first
33:18.8
year ng EDSA under Marcos
33:20.8
Junior, ano yung wait
33:22.8
and see sa inyo? Kinakapaan nyo pa? Again, I
33:24.8
wasn't... Ano pa nga eh. Hindi nga lang siya wait
33:26.8
and see. I wasn't involved in
33:28.8
the preparations last year. Kasi nga
33:30.8
parang, at least for Aquino
33:32.8
Foundation, yung ako, yung
33:34.8
naisip kong... Yung inintindi
33:38.8
the three death anniversaries.
33:40.8
So that's June 24, August 1,
33:42.8
and August 21. So parang
33:44.8
yun, we planned the 40th
33:46.8
death anniversary of Senator Ninoy last
33:48.8
year sa Santo Domingo. That was...
33:50.8
We're really grateful that
33:52.8
that was quite well attended. Pero
33:54.8
ayun, parang having... It was an
33:56.8
interesting experience last year na parang
34:00.8
people were coming to the
34:02.8
Aquino Foundation asking
34:04.8
me personally, ano ba yung plano for EDSA?
34:06.8
And yun, parang it initially
34:08.8
was not part of my plans when I joined
34:10.8
the foundation. So parang we didn't have anything
34:12.8
planned at that point. Pero after that day,
34:18.8
made siguro mental note na okay, we
34:20.8
have to be a bit more involved in
34:22.8
the future. Kasi parang whether
34:24.8
like parang people look
34:26.8
to us for it. Na kahit na agad
34:28.8
my argument is hindi naman kami
34:30.8
main character as far as the EDSA story is concerned.
34:34.8
may iwasan. People ask us about
34:36.8
it. So I made a mental note to
34:38.8
be more involved in the coming year.
34:40.8
Tinagal na nga yung
34:42.8
day ng holiday and then a bunch of people
34:44.8
that we worked with noong August 21 sort of
34:46.8
called attention to that. And
34:48.8
then yun, the next thing I know, parang nagtawag ng
34:50.8
meeting for Feb 25, like bandang
34:52.8
December. Then we started
34:54.8
working January. Kasabay nun yung
35:00.8
signature sheets for people's initiative. So
35:02.8
that brought even more groups onto the table.
35:04.8
And so now we have this really
35:06.8
it's not what we expected
35:08.8
I think. Pero we have this really big
35:12.8
really seeing EDSA not as a
35:16.8
talk about this bigger narrative of
35:20.8
But also as a space
35:22.8
to fight the current very
35:24.8
pressing issue which is itong
35:26.8
people's initiative. Before we go to PIA,
35:30.8
EDSA doon sa list
35:32.8
ng holidays, how big a deal is that?
35:34.8
Honestly, tinatansya ko pa.
35:38.8
when it first happened, medyo wait
35:40.8
and see pa ako eh. Na parang, okay
35:42.8
fine, Sunday nga siya. Baka hindi nga
35:44.8
kailangan maging holiday. The thing that really brought it
35:46.8
home for me was nung dineclare na holiday
35:48.8
yung Chinese New Year ngayon. Kahit
35:50.8
na Saturday siya. And not only
35:52.8
was it declared a holiday, yung eve was also
35:54.8
declared a holiday. Yung
35:56.8
Friday. Friday. So that was Feb,
35:58.8
what was it? Feb 9, I think? Feb 9,
36:00.8
Feb 10, no? So parang yun yung napakalinaw
36:02.8
na parang, okay, it's not really
36:08.8
holiday not to declare it. So
36:10.8
that one made it very clear. Pero what
36:12.8
for you was the message of that?
36:14.8
You know, it's hard. It's
36:16.8
something that I'm actually
36:20.8
it's actually something I'm struggling
36:22.8
to interpret. Baka medyo
36:24.8
polisibrain na yung ginagamit ko. Pero parang
36:30.8
if you're going to push charter change,
36:32.8
right? Alam mo naman na
36:34.8
magkakaroon ka ng, there will be
36:36.8
people opposing it there.
36:38.8
It seems that the
36:40.8
charter change push
36:42.8
either created or worsened
36:46.8
President Marcos and former
36:48.8
President Duterte. So that's
36:50.8
an enemy on one side.
36:54.8
proponents of PI very
36:56.8
blatantly framed it as
36:58.8
something against the EDSA narrative. So you
37:00.8
created an opponent on the other side. So parang
37:04.8
why are you attracting
37:06.8
parang why are you
37:08.8
making things more difficult for yourself?
37:10.8
Creating enemies across different fronts.
37:12.8
So parang it's a very, it's a strange thing
37:14.8
pero ako naman, parang on a practical
37:16.8
I have a hard time understanding
37:18.8
bakit yun nangyari. But on a practical
37:20.8
front, parang ang appreciation ko na lang is
37:24.8
in a way it helps both
37:26.8
the EDSA narrative and the anti-charter change
37:28.8
effort. So parang it helps the EDSA narrative
37:30.8
in the sense na dahil may usapin ng
37:32.8
charter change, it made
37:34.8
Feb 25 a lot more charged than
37:36.8
I think it would have been otherwise. Parang
37:38.8
a lot more interesting.
37:40.8
In terms of charter change naman, parang
37:44.8
Feb 25 into a space
37:46.8
for the people who want to oppose charter change
37:50.8
the extra-constitutional things
37:52.8
that the Duterte camp naman is offering
37:54.8
to oppose charter change. So parang
37:58.8
it's not a good situation.
38:00.8
Parang itong PI is
38:02.8
I think really problematic. Pero
38:04.8
it created space for both
38:06.8
of these forces to come together
38:08.8
on Feb 25 and to stay together after.
38:10.8
Magandang ano na ba yan? Parang template?
38:12.8
Kasi before, di ba, pag
38:14.8
some groups commemorated EDSA,
38:16.8
it was all about EDSA.
38:18.8
Not necessarily meron nakahalong issue.
38:20.8
Pero magandang template
38:22.8
na ba yan moving forward? That you focus
38:24.8
or you latched on a big issue?
38:26.8
I think ano, parang
38:28.8
I don't think that's necessarily
38:30.8
true actually. Kasi yung memory ko
38:34.8
Parang when she would go out. Actually someone
38:36.8
someone called my attention
38:38.8
to her last public appearance.
38:42.8
I think not Feb 25 itself
38:48.8
last public appearance during EDSA, syempre
38:52.8
in La Salle, I think. And syempre parang
38:54.8
while I have to review
38:56.8
the speech itself, but parang
38:58.8
alongside EDSA during that time, there were a lot of
39:02.8
it was charter change, no? 2009.
39:04.8
Actually, ito pa.
39:06.8
An interesting tidbit.
39:10.8
Like many millennials, I will admit,
39:12.8
minsan ginagoogle ko ang sarili ko.
39:14.8
And I think if you
39:16.8
google my name, one of the pictures that will come out
39:18.8
is me in a black Ninoy Aquino
39:20.8
shirt, reading from a piece of paper
39:24.8
campaign banner in the back.
39:26.8
And that was actually
39:28.8
anti-Chacha rally
39:32.8
noong time ni PGMA. And I was reading
39:36.8
on behalf of my Lola, who was
39:38.8
sick at the time, couldn't attend the rally.
39:40.8
So parang in a way,
39:42.8
even in the past, yung EDSA
39:44.8
ginagamit siya as
39:46.8
opportunities to talk about the present.
39:48.8
Even during presidency ni Lola, since
39:50.8
we were digging through her footage, parang
39:56.8
EDSA Shrine People Power Monument, parang
39:58.8
people would use these spaces to talk about things
40:00.8
like yung coup d'etat that were happening at the time
40:02.8
or whatever other pressing issues.
40:06.8
EDSA in a way has always been
40:08.8
talking about these
40:10.8
current things have always been
40:12.8
tied to EDSA in a way.
40:14.8
Dito ngayon. Kasi very nuanced dapat ang positioning
40:16.8
ng mga tao. It's just
40:18.8
not a simple black and white.
40:20.8
Diba yung sa Asia ng charter change
40:22.8
because you also have the Dutertes
40:24.8
who all of a sudden are champions
40:26.8
of the Constitution.
40:28.8
When in fact, they wanted to change it.
40:30.8
So on one hand, they wanted to change it.
40:32.8
Pero okay, paano yung positioning niyo?
40:34.8
How do you nuance it?
40:36.8
The Dutertes themselves simplified it for us.
40:38.8
Kasi parang, at first, again,
40:40.8
polisay mind, iniisip ko, okay, parang
40:42.8
how do we deal nga with
40:44.8
the Duterte camp?
40:46.8
Parang they're still quite popular,
40:48.8
they'll be against charter change, how do we engage with them?
40:50.8
Pero nung na-float yung IDSA,
40:52.8
nung idea of secession, nung na-float yung idea na ano,
40:54.8
it became blatantly clear na
40:56.8
parang hindi naman Constitution
40:58.8
yung prinsipyo ng kampong to.
41:02.8
their own interest.
41:04.8
Kasi why are they defending the Constitution on one hand
41:06.8
when they want to
41:08.8
compromise the country's territorial
41:10.8
integrity on the other hand?
41:12.8
So parang for me, that moment made it a lot
41:14.8
clear na okay, kailangan malinaw na
41:16.8
we oppose charter change but
41:20.8
these self-interested attempts.
41:24.8
ginagawang battleground din lang yung Constitution.
41:26.8
Parang that's something that I think we oppose.
41:28.8
And that's something both the Marcos'
41:30.8
and the Marcos' camp,
41:32.8
the Marcos-Romaldes camp and the Duterte camp are guilty of.
41:34.8
Parang they're turning it into
41:36.8
parang they're turning it into a bargaining chip,
41:38.8
into a weapon, whatever analogy you want to use.
41:40.8
So malinaw yung messaging na yun sa inyo?
41:42.8
Dito sa EDSA commemoration nga yan?
41:44.8
Oo. So parang if you read our statement talaga,
41:50.8
here are all of the values
41:52.8
of the Constitution that we want to defend. That's why
41:54.8
we're against charter change. At the same time,
41:56.8
parang kinukundi na namin
41:58.8
yung mga nag-de-defend
42:00.8
or parang nag-de-defend kuno
42:02.8
ng Constitution but
42:04.8
with just a little bit of
42:08.8
with just a little bit of looking more
42:10.8
closely, parang malinaw na self-interest yung
42:12.8
gumagabay sa kanila.
42:14.8
So far, challenging din ba yung parang
42:16.8
making people realize this
42:20.8
Well ano, parang I think
42:22.8
we'll see. Kasi parang
42:24.8
in a way, it's funny kasi
42:26.8
hindi naman talaga charter change
42:28.8
yung nung start ng New Year, hindi
42:30.8
charter change yung iniisip kong trabaho.
42:32.8
I did not think charter change would be what I would think.
42:34.8
Although tinelegraphin nila ang Martin Romualdez,
42:36.8
nila speaker diba? They said first order of the
42:40.8
Oh siguro ano, baka ano. Siguro so
42:42.8
thought ko yun siguro na hindi ko iniisip na hindi ko
42:44.8
nakikita. But even then, parang
42:46.8
charter change siguro I saw the signature
42:48.8
sheet, I saw the first signature sheet
42:50.8
siguro first week of January, mga
42:52.8
Jan 3 or so. Parang took note of it, worrisome
42:54.8
siya. Pero parang
42:56.8
in the end, okay Aquino Foundation, my job perpetuate
42:58.8
the legacy of Ninoy Corriantino and that
43:00.8
at first akala ko was not directly
43:02.8
involved in that. Pero
43:04.8
when that ad that came out na
43:06.8
parang everyone started talking about, parang dun
43:08.8
naging clear na okay, parang it's
43:10.8
very much part of the story and now we're ano.
43:12.8
Natrigger kayo sa EDSA puwera?
43:14.8
Parang dinala kayo sa ano yun?
43:16.8
Yeah in a way, parang and again it's
43:18.8
puzzling na again, both with the cancellation
43:20.8
of EDSA and that ad.
43:22.8
Bakit nyo, why are you
43:24.8
creating more enemies for yourself?
43:26.8
Now siguro that being said,
43:28.8
I don't wanna speak for the whole coalition, ako lang yun.
43:30.8
Kasi parang again, NCAF is primarily
43:32.8
about legacy, right?
43:34.8
But yun, so parang in terms of
43:36.8
in terms of the challenge, I would
43:38.8
have thought na yung about phase na yun
43:40.8
would be more difficult. Kasi
43:42.8
akala ko EDSA history yung
43:44.8
magiging main things na kailangan kong
43:46.8
pag-usapan this February. Pero
43:48.8
ironically, it was
43:50.8
quite easy to, it's quite easy
43:52.8
to come up with arguments
43:54.8
na straightforward. Na kahit ano, aminin ko, di ako
43:56.8
ekonomista, di ako abogado, I teach
43:58.8
poli-sci, so maybe I'm a little more well
44:00.8
informed than the average citizen, but
44:02.8
not an expert on the constitution, but parang it's
44:04.8
kind of easy to argue na ano, parang
44:06.8
if you want to change, yun,
44:08.8
if you really just want to change the economic
44:10.8
provisions, bakit procedural
44:12.8
Senate voting jointly yung
44:14.8
pinagay mo sa signature sheet mo, sana
44:16.8
pinakita mo na lang yung
44:18.8
economic provisions na gusto mong palitan.
44:20.8
And then we have the resolution
44:22.8
of both houses, the two resolutions of both
44:24.8
houses that came out now. Pero parang, if you
44:26.8
think about that naman, it's a decision being
44:28.8
made under duress by the Senate. Kasi
44:30.8
parang finwritten sila with PI,
44:32.8
they came up with this in response. Parang
44:34.8
how can that, that's not a good, ano,
44:36.8
that's not a good way to change the charter na parang
44:38.8
there's a gun pointed to your head tapos papalitan
44:40.8
mo yun yung basis to change it.
44:42.8
So parang it's, um,
44:44.8
I think it speaks to
44:48.8
feeling ko the fact na
44:50.8
like, despite our plans
44:52.8
being, um, di naman
44:54.8
derailed, but like diverted significantly.
44:56.8
The fact na sobrang bilis ng response
44:58.8
ng mga tao, all the arguments are quite
45:00.8
clear. We have very strong arguments right
45:02.8
away about this, even though this wasn't our plan. Parang
45:04.8
I think it speaks to
45:06.8
the strength of our position, na parang
45:10.8
against ako sa pagpalit ng economic provisions,
45:14.8
knowledge ko naman na debate naman siya talaga.
45:16.8
It's a policy debate that could be had.
45:18.8
But the methods by which this is being done,
45:20.8
and the, parang the past statements of
45:22.8
a lot of these proponents na parang
45:24.8
they don't just want to tinker with the
45:26.8
economic provisions. I think both,
45:28.8
um, regardless of what side of
45:30.8
the Duterte-Marcos divide
45:32.8
they're on, both President
45:34.8
Marcos and Senator Aimee
45:36.8
Marcos have both mentioned
45:38.8
that they're interested in, ano,
45:40.8
they're interested in tinkering with term
45:42.8
limits, right? So, ako parang
45:46.8
the intentions are clear
45:48.8
and so the arguments
45:50.8
that came up on our end were also very,
45:52.8
became also very clear very quickly, no? So parang
45:54.8
in the end, parang
45:56.8
how is it difficult? Manalaman na lang
45:58.8
natin kasi in the end, all of this ends up in a
46:00.8
referendum, right? So do natin makita.
46:02.8
But at least... Kaya pwede i-control? Oo.
46:04.8
Kaya i-control ang mga politicians?
46:06.8
Definitely, definitely, right? Parang, so siyempre
46:08.8
ano, like, realistically we saw that
46:10.8
in the last election. But parang,
46:12.8
in the end, that's how we measure,
46:14.8
that's how our success will be measured. And it's a
46:16.8
tall order nga, as we saw in the elections
46:18.8
noong 2022. But parang
46:20.8
ako, I guess I take
46:22.8
solace in the fact na parang, ayun, like,
46:24.8
the groups that we were with,
46:26.8
the clarity was really
46:28.8
there for us. Ito finally.
46:30.8
Kunwari, you're speaking with an
46:32.8
ordinary Filipino. How do you relate
46:34.8
the advocacy now against this
46:36.8
insidious effort to change the
46:38.8
Constitution or to amend it through PI
46:40.8
dun sa ipinaglaban
46:42.8
sa EDSA 86? Kasi may mga
46:44.8
prinsip siya eh, na pinaglaban sa EDSA, diba?
46:46.8
How do you relate that to this
46:48.8
particular issue now? So I think, ano,
46:52.8
I think the use of the EDSA
46:54.8
narrative, parang,
46:56.8
baliktad siya eh.
46:58.8
Long-term goal yung pag-restore, parang
47:00.8
long-term goal yung values
47:02.8
of the EDSA, right? Parang democracy and
47:04.8
everything na talagang binugbog siya in the last,
47:06.8
at least the last
47:08.8
two dec- the last decade.
47:10.8
Definitely more than that, but at least the last decade.
47:12.8
So parang, long- yun yung
47:14.8
long war, no? Na parang, how do we get
47:16.8
people to value democracy again? Or how do we
47:18.8
yung, ganun, parang,
47:20.8
yung bilanggit ko kanina, na parang
47:22.8
yung demokrasya, yun lang yung way na
47:24.8
tayo bilang isang
47:26.8
lipunan, nakakapag-decide tayo as
47:28.8
a group, pero kinikilala pa rin
47:30.8
na may hindi pa- may mga
47:32.8
hindi sumasang-ayon sa
47:34.8
decision na yun. Medyo heady pa rin siya, pero parang
47:38.8
that we'd want people to appreciate. But long-term
47:40.8
goal yun. Yung charter change is
47:42.8
the immediate problem before us, no?
47:44.8
And I think parang kung paano
47:46.8
ko ipapaliwanag yung charter
47:48.8
change, ako doon ako bumabalik sa okay,
47:50.8
sino yung gumagawa nito? Ano yung intention nila?
47:52.8
Bakit tinatago nila sa PI
47:54.8
yung supposedly gusto
47:56.8
nilang gawin? Tsaka bakit ano, parang
47:58.8
bakit pinapush nila yung
48:00.8
resolution of both houses? Talagang
48:02.8
dahil tingin nila yun yung tamang
48:04.8
gawin, no? Kasi may at stake
48:06.8
yung- yung mga career
48:08.8
nila. So parang, and then bakit
48:10.8
itong other camp, bakit sila
48:12.8
nag-o-oppose ng charter change? Eh,
48:14.8
nag-o-oppose sila ng charter change
48:16.8
on one end, pero nag-propose sila ng secession
48:18.8
na sobrang labag din sa
48:20.8
yun, labag sa territorial integrity
48:22.8
ng Pilipinas, right? So parang
48:24.8
I think these are easy
48:26.8
points to under- binagit niyo nga kanina
48:28.8
Christian, parang personalistic
48:30.8
yung mga tao, di ba? So parang these are
48:34.8
to us is yung mga efforts
48:36.8
both of the pro-cha-cha
48:38.8
side and the, ano, parang end of the
48:40.8
30 camp, self-interest yung
48:42.8
gumagabay sa kanila. Personal na interest yung gumagabay
48:44.8
sa kanila. And then sobrang nakaka-relate naman na
48:46.8
yung katrabaho mong
48:48.8
or yung kilala mong politiko.
48:50.8
Parang, bagamat yung
48:52.8
trabaho nila, dapat para sa
48:54.8
puong taong bayan yung
48:56.8
mga ginagawa nila, self-interest yung
48:58.8
gumagabay sa marami sa mga
49:00.8
decision nila. So I think that
49:02.8
that touchpoint for charter change is important.
49:04.8
And then, if you relate it to EDSA,
49:06.8
parang what was EDSA ultimately, parang
49:08.8
tinanggal natin yung isang diktador
49:10.8
na self-interest and
49:12.8
self-perpetuation lang talaga yung
49:14.8
pinroblema niya for so many
49:16.8
years in power. So baka that's
49:18.8
the long-term connection, but the short-term connection
49:20.8
to fight this charter change is yun. Bakit
49:24.8
ng self-interest yung
49:26.8
gumagabay sa politika natin?
49:28.8
So yun ang key word, self-interest. We should guard
49:30.8
against politicians'
49:32.8
self-interest. Malaking problema
49:34.8
yan because I don't know the
49:36.8
percentage, but I suppose majority
49:38.8
of our politicians are
49:40.8
after their self-interest.
49:44.8
of them, pero parang ang hindi naman sa
49:46.8
you cannot pursue your self-interest.
49:48.8
Siyempre huwag kang mangorakot, pero parang
49:50.8
ayun, siyempre if you're interested in
49:52.8
staying in office, definitely parang
49:54.8
campaign well, do good programs,
49:56.8
and that should support your self-interest.
49:58.8
And serve the people. At yun, parang
50:00.8
yung tungkulin mo sa
50:02.8
tungkulin mo as a
50:04.8
leader is to serve the
50:08.8
to use a policy term, to serve the general
50:10.8
will. Parang, and
50:16.8
these proponents of charter change,
50:18.8
again, sa bagay, hindi ko
50:20.8
sila kausap, so I should not
50:22.8
infer their intentions, pero
50:24.8
parang from their actions, yun yung
50:26.8
yun yung na-infer ko.
50:28.8
Madali namang basahin.
50:30.8
Anyway, maraming salamat, Kiko D., for joining
50:32.8
us in this episode. Thank you so much.
50:34.8
Sana marami po kayo nakapulat dito po sa ating
50:38.8
about the EDSA Commemoration.
50:40.8
38 years na po. So, huwag natin kalimutan,
50:42.8
maraming lessons yung EDSA, and
50:44.8
hindi lang po dapat siya
50:46.8
naiiwan sa history books, although
50:48.8
kakaunti na nga yung mention yata.
50:50.8
Well, EDSA lives on.
50:52.8
Maraming salamat po. Ako po si Christian
50:54.8
Esguerra, and thank you for joining us today.
51:04.8
Thank you for watching!
