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00:00.0
Alright, good morning, good evening everyone, kung saan kayo sa mundo ngayon.
00:04.9
Thank you very much for joining us for this latest episode.
00:07.9
As I promised, ito na, pag-usapan natin ng mga issues na we discussed more in generic terms
00:13.2
in past episodes, as you remember, dun sa episode natin, including with former Senator Trillianes,
00:19.7
we discussed the issue of AFP modernization.
00:22.6
I also had a number of pieces recently dun sa itong $36 billion over 10 years of AFP modernization
00:29.4
program, but as they say, amateurs discuss strategy, experts discuss logistics, or something
00:38.5
So, in that regard, I thought of a perfect person who we also had on our podcast in the
00:46.3
past, and of course, also I had the pleasure of also having him on my own television program
00:50.8
sa Signal TV, TV5.
00:52.3
Thank you very much, Professor Ong, Admiral Ong, for joining us.
00:56.4
Good evening, Richard.
00:57.7
Good morning here in Manila.
01:02.0
Let's get the ball rolling.
01:04.8
Yeah, I mean, first of all, what is your general impressions of itong announcement na we're
01:12.6
going to put aside, what, 2 trillion pesos over the next 10 years, or at least that's
01:17.0
the plan, for Third Horizon?
01:19.8
In fact, I think the term they're using is Re-Horizon 3, pagdating sa revised AFP modernization,
01:26.1
which former President and the late President Aquino committed.
01:29.4
May golpeung sa pabalilan ng Plecto Imagens sa isang kasubukan dangers sa thesida ng isang apsao
01:34.1
sa bahay-ahot, modelo-nouldan niyo, kung ist 잘in ang pulsiyeng matang pagángadala ganyan
01:39.2
pinakaanyan, horang sa'yo kailangan na po.
01:42.0
So, sasabihin lang kong ito.
01:45.0
Ito pa dito, I think you will never forget our commitment to the사 ng Larry D.
01:48.8
Tairi, keysa niyang sahay na ganda sa Cristo yung� netsafo sa Philippines.
01:53.3
Tiwato yung pagkatapos sa araw sa mga kapwa pa r 330 ng kaysa r emos sa 26, at sa 188 ng uro.
01:59.4
Not naman ang negative side
02:03.1
but some things that need to be
02:05.3
we have to cross the peace in some areas
02:07.5
We need to also look at
02:09.6
yung alignment between
02:11.5
the modernization program
02:13.2
and yung strategy
02:15.4
natin to address various
02:17.1
concerns. Not only West Philippine Sea
02:21.5
other security concerns
02:22.6
The second aspect of that is
02:25.5
yung for structure
02:27.0
the organization. Kasi
02:30.4
kumbaga you might be
02:33.0
organized like for the
02:36.4
for linear warfare
02:38.9
but you're already introducing equipment
02:43.3
example the machine gun
02:44.8
that is actually the solution against
02:47.2
linear warfare. So parang
02:51.5
or equipment should be aligned
02:54.6
and organization as well
02:56.6
So that's the good part
03:00.1
Are there things that
03:01.7
kasi it's still early pa
03:03.9
pero meron bang mga bagay dyan
03:06.1
Professor Ong in terms of
03:08.2
you know are there areas of
03:10.1
concern or are there areas that you want to
03:12.1
see more details and clarifications
03:14.4
from our officials
03:15.2
Well not exactly details
03:18.2
but my concern is yung
03:20.3
the supply chain issue
03:24.0
you're gonna buy a printer
03:27.6
when you bought a printer
03:31.6
one or two sets of the cartridges
03:39.6
to look at yung supply of cartridges
03:43.1
when you buy the equipment
03:45.1
you have to look at yung logistics strain
03:48.1
in terms of sustainability
03:50.6
more particularly if you're buying high-end
03:52.6
type of equipment na merong
03:54.6
maintenance intensive
03:56.6
and requires training not only
03:58.6
personnel but actually
04:02.6
maintenance cycle
04:10.6
and this is arising from yung observations natin
04:12.6
from the Ukraine Russian conflict
04:14.6
tapos yung what's happening now
04:18.6
and also yung Israeli Hamas conflict
04:24.6
sophisticated weapon systems
04:26.6
there is value to
04:28.6
looking at asymmetric
04:30.6
and cheaper weapon system
04:32.6
kasi in terms of sustainability
04:39.6
we cannot rely on
04:42.6
current business model
04:44.6
that we buy it from abroad
04:48.6
less sophisticated
04:50.6
cheaper but effective weapon system
04:52.6
we need to look at developing them
04:55.6
rather than buying them from abroad
04:57.6
so that takes care of the supply chain issue
04:59.6
that I was talking about
05:07.6
we need to rethink
05:09.6
yung solutions natin
05:13.6
tactical or strategic problems
05:19.6
they were able to
05:25.6
contain yung Russian Black Sea Fleet
05:27.6
with the non-existent
05:33.6
primarily land-based
05:37.6
so that's an asymmetric solution
05:39.6
to a problem which is the Russian
05:41.6
which is the Russian Black Sea Fleet
05:43.6
so we need to look
05:45.6
we need to think in those terms
05:49.6
think asymmetrically
05:51.6
when we look at yung
05:53.6
yung mga tactical problems
05:55.6
that are confronting us
05:57.6
in the West Philippine Sea and other security concerns
06:01.6
there's a lot that we can go to and we can talk from
06:03.6
the Azerbaijan-Armenia
06:05.6
ah conflict in the Caucasus
06:07.6
all the way to Ukraine conflict especially in the Black Sea
06:09.6
and then what's happening in Houthi, Red Sea
06:11.6
among others but before we go more into detail
06:15.6
drone warfare and all sorts of asymmetric
06:17.6
warfare is concerned balikan natin itong mga
06:19.6
conventional capabilities that we're
06:21.6
looking at developing in the coming years
06:25.6
of course isa dyan yung mention ng
06:27.6
of course your navy po yung background nyo
06:35.6
talking about two to three submarines
06:37.6
I mean I heard some regional specialist
06:39.6
or a commentator saying that
06:41.6
three is the magic number
06:43.6
in fact I think the South China Morning Post in Hong Kong
06:45.6
had a piece on that
06:47.6
that actually three may look very few
06:49.6
on the paper but it could give
06:51.6
us the kind of flexibility and operation
06:53.6
um you know capabilities
06:55.6
that could be potentially
06:57.6
even game changer down the road but obviously
06:59.6
this is very much 10 years 15 years from
07:01.6
now but first of all what is your
07:03.6
thought about three submarines not only
07:05.6
one not only two but
07:07.6
three submarines if last time I checked
07:09.6
Vietnam has six kilo class
07:11.6
submarines the more modern versions they
07:13.6
got from from Russia
07:15.6
ah Malaysia has it if I'm not missing
07:17.6
even Myanmar has has submarines
07:19.6
um isn't it time for the
07:21.6
South Submarines and is three the magic number
07:23.6
yeah I would agree
07:25.6
three would be the magic number
07:27.6
no even now currently
07:29.6
the navy the PP navy
07:35.6
three concept okay so normally it's
07:39.6
is under training one is under maintenance
07:41.6
so that's the that's the minimum
07:43.6
okay but of course
07:47.6
increase to six or to nine so multiples
07:49.6
of three okay so three is the
07:53.6
one on training and one down
08:01.6
the the submarines
08:03.6
a number of countries have come forward
08:05.6
France of course at
08:07.6
least on the surface looks like one of the
08:09.6
leading candidates here we also
08:11.6
have South Korea which has already been a
08:13.6
major provider to us
08:15.6
in terms of naval capabilities
08:17.6
Spain and Spain even in Spain I
08:19.6
think offered to even build
08:21.6
a naval base uh somewhere in the
08:23.6
Visayas region I think if I'm not
08:31.6
and maybe the Italians you know the
08:33.6
Italians may also come out of nowhere
08:37.6
mean of course you're not part of the
08:39.6
bidding commission and all and I'm not
08:41.6
asking you to to weigh the scales and
08:43.6
all of that but or you know put your
08:45.6
thumb sorry on the scales but
08:47.6
um what is your sense with all of these
08:49.6
different options coming in I mean on at
08:51.6
the surface what do you feel about it
09:47.6
terms of numbers, okay?
09:49.9
So, the solution namin is asymmetric.
09:52.0
We cannot confront a surface
09:53.6
fleet that is superior to us in number
09:55.4
and capability with an equally
09:57.8
surface fleet din, okay?
10:01.7
not have the industrial capacity that China
10:03.8
has. Yung shipbuilding
10:05.9
capability niya, we don't. Even the US
10:07.7
has problems, okay? Too much
10:11.3
a symmetric solution
10:13.7
will not work. So, we weren't open for
10:15.5
asymmetry. So, dalawa yun, actually,
10:17.4
sa solutions namin.
10:18.9
For the purpose of our audience, when you say
10:21.6
symmetric, meaning head-to-head,
10:23.6
no? I mean, like, on a conventional basis.
10:27.5
So, kung barko yun siya,
10:29.7
barko rin sa'yo. Right.
10:31.2
And when you say asymmetric, it's not necessarily
10:33.5
one-to-one correspondence,
10:35.6
but actually, you can still match it.
10:37.6
Kind of jujitsu your way through it. I mean,
10:39.5
we're just trying to explain to folks who are not
10:41.5
into the defense lingo and all of it.
10:43.9
Okay. So, yeah. So,
10:45.2
yung dalawa yung solutions namin doon.
10:47.0
One of them is the
10:48.9
Rambos Anti-Shipping Science System, which is
10:51.2
for delivery now.
10:53.2
The second one is the submarine, which is still under
10:55.1
contention in terms of actually acquiring it.
10:59.5
moving forward, yung question mo,
11:01.2
which is the better
11:02.7
alternative. Now, when we frame the
11:07.1
ang ano namin dito is, this is not a
11:09.0
Navy project. This is not even
11:13.1
This should be framed as a national
11:15.2
project. And we need to
11:17.0
then we do that, we're not just
11:18.9
buying the submarine, whether that's
11:21.0
store-free. We're buying
11:22.8
a capability, but also
11:24.5
yung industrial ecosystem
11:29.1
Okay? Kaya when we are
11:30.7
into negotiation, ang ano namin is,
11:33.4
in terms of what do you add
11:36.9
to the basket of duties?
11:39.3
So, we're asking for
11:41.0
technology transfer. Package, no?
11:42.8
Package deal, yeah.
11:43.9
Yung package na. We're looking at,
11:47.0
we need to link up with private sector
11:48.7
kasi private sector will be the recipient
11:50.8
of the industrial
11:57.8
Then, we were also
11:58.6
considering, we will also look
12:00.2
in negotiations, we also ask for
12:03.9
improve our STEM education
12:10.6
Yung science, technology, engineering.
12:14.6
you need, yung manpower part,
12:17.0
you need those manpower, number one,
12:19.0
to support the industrial base,
12:20.7
and later in the future,
12:22.9
sila yung mag-operate na submarine.
12:26.7
employ or use people
12:30.4
training niya or yung academic
12:33.0
or yung industrial capacity
12:35.0
is the human way also
12:38.6
entire ecosystem, to support
12:41.3
Human capital to operate the hardware.
12:45.6
Admiral, aside from the human capital,
12:47.0
to operate it, of course,
12:49.2
there's also discussion of kind of
12:50.6
overarching strategy or
12:57.1
what is the broader grand
12:59.0
strategy that you think the Philippine
13:00.8
defense establishment has to develop in terms
13:02.9
of arm for the Philippines?
13:04.6
We can talk about the
13:06.9
military industrial complex,
13:09.0
we can talk about people are running it, but there
13:10.9
should be also kind of an overarching strategy,
13:12.9
if you're going to build a formidable
13:15.0
or decent navy at least.
13:17.0
For a mid-sized country like the Philippines.
13:21.4
the Navy has worked
13:23.1
on an archipelagic defense strategy
13:25.1
before, and the Marine Corps
13:26.9
independently has developed its own archipelagic
13:29.4
coastal defense strategy.
13:31.6
So, yun yung grounding.
13:32.4
Let me explain this to you again. Sorry, Admiral, again,
13:34.8
our audience is not folks like us.
13:36.9
Our audience is just like, folks are not
13:38.8
necessarily here for defense issues.
13:41.0
Perhaps they're here for political issues or marites
13:43.0
or, I don't know, glutathione.
13:45.6
So, for the purpose of our
13:47.0
audience, can we explain what do we mean by
13:49.0
archipelagic defense or
13:50.8
coastal defense strategy? Simpleng lang
13:53.2
natin para sa ating audience.
13:55.4
Well, in plain language,
13:57.3
ang Pilipinas is made up
13:58.7
is an archipelago.
14:01.7
So, we are made up
14:09.6
Okay. So, we need to defend
14:11.2
all of those islands within
14:14.8
Because of the unique nature
14:17.0
of an archipelago, meaning
14:18.4
multiple islands dispersed
14:22.4
ingress-egress o maraming
14:27.4
For the Philippines alone,
14:29.0
we have 7 archipelagic streets
14:30.7
that we need to secure
14:35.2
So, yun yung nature
14:37.0
ng archipelago. So, that means
14:39.3
yung strategy mo o yung
14:41.0
yung konsepto mo para
14:42.9
depensahan yung archipelago mo
14:45.0
should fit the nature
14:47.0
of the country natin.
14:50.7
you have to consider na marami tayong island groups,
14:54.7
maraming entrance
14:58.3
inside, into, and out of
15:00.9
the Philippine archipelago.
15:03.3
So, yung strategy natin
15:04.9
must be able to look at how do you now
15:06.7
defend yung archipelago natin.
15:11.3
Okay. Now that we have clarified
15:13.1
some of these basic terms, yung archipelagic
15:15.0
defense or coastal defense capabilities,
15:17.0
so, balikan natin ito
15:19.1
in terms of conventional capability
15:20.9
development. I mean, is there like a
15:22.6
panim, is there a sequencing
15:24.9
here? Is there a kind of like, I don't know
15:27.0
if you can sandwich it like a little bit of this,
15:29.3
a little bit of that? Can you lasagna
15:33.1
is the optimal mix of
15:35.2
capabilities we're looking at
15:36.6
given the limitations of our budget
15:38.9
and given the time frame we're looking at and given
15:41.0
the urgency of the threat that we're facing?
15:43.1
I mean, again, if you were to make up a
15:45.0
menu, right? Like, parang ano tayong mga
15:46.7
war simulation, right? You were given 10
15:48.7
points. How are you going to divide it among
15:50.8
certain capability development, like
15:52.7
one point here, two points here, one point
15:54.6
here? What would be
15:56.7
the reasonable kind of
15:57.8
mixture for you, Admiral?
16:01.1
Well, if resource
16:02.8
is an issue, meaning your budget
16:04.6
is an issue. Your budget
16:06.6
is 2 trillion pesos over 10
16:08.6
years, right? So, yeah.
16:14.7
year, something like that, right?
16:16.7
3 to 4 billion dollars a year, let's say.
16:19.8
Okay. Ang challenge na yun,
16:21.1
and I haven't seen the list
16:22.6
noong re-horizon, so
16:24.7
we're actually basically
16:26.7
speculating it. But
16:28.4
whatever's on that list,
16:30.9
the question now is
16:31.9
yung capabilities that you're trying
16:34.9
to acquire, will it
16:36.0
address the immediate challenges
16:38.8
or threats sa arquipelago
16:40.9
mo? Okay. So, I mentioned
16:42.9
yung ano, I mentioned yung
16:44.2
on the part of the Navy,
16:48.7
challenge sa amin 2016,
16:50.8
and I think it's still an existential challenge
16:52.8
even now, is the PLA
16:54.7
Navy surface fleet. Okay.
16:56.7
Kasi yun yung driver ng
16:58.0
strategy ng China
17:00.6
South China Sea. Okay.
17:05.9
to deal with that,
17:09.3
we have considered yung
17:10.4
anti-ship missile system, we have considered yung submarine.
17:12.9
Okay. As yung flagship
17:14.7
weapons, but to address the threat.
17:16.7
But yung mid-level
17:18.7
threat, yung Chinese Coast Guard
17:20.6
and yung Malaysia,
17:24.7
an anti-ship missile system is an
17:26.4
expensive proposition. Kumbaga,
17:29.1
yung return of investment,
17:31.0
para bang gumamit ka ng
17:32.8
certain weapon system, tapos
17:34.6
ang target mo bangka. Okay.
17:37.0
You will obliterate it, but
17:40.1
that's not the way to do
17:42.7
business in terms of ROI.
17:46.7
You're wasting resources.
17:49.0
So, we need to look at yung
17:50.2
mid-level threat at saka yung low-level threat.
17:52.7
For example, yung Malaysia.
17:54.5
Ang nakalimutan kasi natin,
17:56.0
we look at the Malaysia, yung
17:58.4
fishing vessels, tagaharang
18:02.0
ng Coast Guard natin at saka nung supply boat.
18:11.0
yung design niya can be
18:12.7
used for mine warfare.
18:14.0
Pwede sila magdala
18:18.0
I-lay out yan doon sa ating coastal waters.
18:20.8
Doon sa, let's say,
18:21.9
Mount of Manila Bay or Subic Bay.
18:24.6
They can be used for surveillance.
18:26.9
And I think, the larger
18:28.4
militia vessels can
18:31.9
lighter or smaller
18:36.2
So, sabi, may force multiplier doon.
18:38.2
So, yung low-end na yun,
18:40.5
I think, the appropriate weapon system
18:46.7
Para ma-address yung problema na yun.
18:52.8
expendable drones to address the threat.
18:57.6
Now, we also need to look at yung
18:59.3
how do we defend yung islands natin.
19:03.2
If you go back to World War II,
19:07.4
islands were isolated.
19:09.4
Kasi binaypas naman sila
19:11.7
ng Japanese forces.
19:12.7
They were isolated.
19:16.7
hindi ka na lang sila nung nag-consolidate na yung
19:18.7
forces ng Japan sa Pilipinas.
19:21.7
So, we need to design
19:23.2
yung defense system ng islands natin
19:24.9
as stand-alone. They can operate independently.
19:27.7
Kasi unang magbe-breakdown sa'yo dyan,
19:29.8
communications eh.
19:31.8
Okay? You must assume that
19:33.0
your communications will break down.
19:36.0
That will be the first
19:37.5
thing na i-detect.
19:39.1
At to target din ang kalaban.
19:43.8
homeland defense mo for low-tech
19:49.6
wafer siya. Kasi the more low-tech
19:52.2
yung wafer mo, the more resilient yun.
19:55.2
Okay? Kasi if you
19:56.3
go for sophisticated
19:57.3
web systems, whether it's weapons
20:00.2
or support systems,
20:08.4
yung mga adversaries natin.
20:11.1
So, it's better to
20:14.6
Kung kailangan nga, we go back to more
20:19.1
As a backup system.
20:22.5
that yung homeland defense mo will continue.
20:33.6
Yes, please Admiral. Go ahead.
20:40.8
Kasi we're talking of the physical
20:42.4
side, whether yung sa ere,
20:44.1
sa dagat, o sa lupa.
20:46.3
Okay. But yung non-physical
20:48.6
should also be considered.
20:52.4
maraming pa tayong kailangan gawin para
20:54.4
to be able to say na we are
20:56.3
confident in defending
20:58.6
our cyberspace. Kasi right now,
21:01.7
my personal view is
21:03.3
private sector is the one
21:04.5
taking the cudgels
21:05.5
in terms of defending yung
21:11.6
government is still in that
21:14.4
level of trying to step up to the
21:16.3
challenge. The second one
21:18.4
is yung public opinion
21:20.6
is also a battle space.
21:22.6
And alam mo naman yan, Richard, meron tayong
21:24.4
information war ongoing right now.
21:26.4
Meron tayong counter propaganda. I have no idea.
21:28.4
I'm totally shocked. I've never
21:30.3
seen any other China
21:36.3
part of who are fair.
21:38.1
And I think we've
21:40.7
been good at it, in countering it.
21:45.4
Don't be confused.
21:46.3
Yeah, yeah. No room for complacency
21:48.4
dito sa cognitive warfare nila.
21:52.2
again, before we go
21:54.4
to the asymmetric and cyber,
21:56.3
I think those stones are definitely important.
21:58.2
Thank you for pointing them out.
22:00.0
Ang point ko lang, kasi may plano
22:02.3
talaga magkaroon ng acquisition
22:03.8
sa mga conventional capabilities.
22:06.4
So, a few submarines,
22:08.1
multi-role fighter jets,
22:13.9
supersonic missile systems, if not,
22:16.3
hypersonic. Like, I completely
22:18.4
get your point. Now, we have to go for
22:20.1
highest ROI for what we
22:22.2
can develop in the shortest possible
22:24.2
time, what we can maintain, get scanned.
22:26.4
But, what do you think is the minimum
22:28.1
level of conventional
22:29.6
arms acquisition that we have to go for?
22:32.4
Like, three submarines looks
22:34.2
like reasonable to you, right?
22:36.0
I know this is your Navy, but in terms
22:38.2
of fighter jets capabilities,
22:40.1
are we looking at two or three
22:42.1
squadrons? Realistically, what kind
22:44.2
of multi-role vessels are we looking
22:46.3
at as most reasonable, given
22:47.7
you're facing a country like China, which has, I think,
22:50.2
what, two fifth-generation
22:51.9
developed fighter jets programs already?
22:54.5
So, when one of the largest...
22:56.7
So, what are we looking at in terms of
22:58.2
the minimum conventional
23:00.3
capabilities we should have
23:01.8
before putting a bigger
23:04.1
part of our eggs, perhaps, in the basket
23:06.2
of asymmetric and cyber-wifery?
23:08.3
Okay. So, I'll defer
23:10.1
to the Air Force in terms of number of squadrons.
23:12.1
I think they tacked it to three squadrons.
23:15.1
I will look at it,
23:16.3
what is the mission that you want to perform, okay?
23:19.0
So, historically,
23:23.3
because of the counterinsurgency campaign
23:25.8
The primary mission was close air support,
23:30.4
Supporting the Army or the infantry
23:32.3
in counterinsurgency operations. That has been
23:34.5
its principal role for the past few decades.
23:41.2
if they want to go
23:42.5
conventional, in terms of conventional
23:44.5
terms, they are looking into
23:46.3
air defense, okay?
23:47.9
That means, they need to establish
23:49.9
the ability to protect
23:53.6
the Philippine Air Defense Interdiction Zone.
23:56.7
Okay? So, you need
23:57.8
fighters, okay? Air superiority
23:60.0
capability, okay?
24:02.2
So, you can look at that.
24:07.8
the PLA Navy Surface Fleet.
24:10.0
So, if I were to ask
24:12.0
the Air Force, I would ask them, can you also consider
24:14.1
the ability of your
24:15.9
multi-role aircraft
24:18.0
to carry anti-ship missile
24:30.3
to actually counter yung
24:31.8
surface fleet nila, okay?
24:33.9
So, that's what I'm going to ask
24:35.1
maybe person na sana.
24:37.5
One of the squadrons will be designed
24:39.2
as naval strike, for naval
24:48.5
naman, it's not that we're talking at
24:50.2
merong ano eh, guns versus
24:52.1
missile dichotomy.
24:54.3
Guns and butter, or you mean trade-off?
24:58.2
missile, in terms of yung air defense.
25:02.2
are expensive, okay?
25:04.0
But I think one of the lessons, again,
25:06.4
from the Ukraine-Russian conflict was
25:11.8
German anti-air defense
25:14.2
system, which is gun-type.
25:18.2
tying this up to yung
25:19.5
discussion for earlier about
25:22.1
supply chain. Kasi,
25:24.9
mas madali yung supply
25:26.2
chain mo kung bala
25:33.1
munisyon mo, compared to missile, which is
25:36.0
more expensive. So,
25:40.2
a mix, if not possible,
25:44.2
missile-based air
25:45.9
defense system might be too expensive
25:51.1
old-school style,
25:53.4
Rambo style. May konting Rambo,
25:56.2
medyo may konting high-tech style.
26:02.5
one. There are providers of
26:04.4
gun-type air defense system.
26:06.7
Nang puter na, hindi yung
26:11.3
Hindi yung rambo.
26:12.3
Si rambo, naisip ko, nakaganyan
26:15.9
Maratetan yung mga...
26:17.2
What about yung mga systems like
26:21.4
the Javelin missile? Some of these things
26:24.2
that many thought could be
26:25.9
game changers. At least, we saw
26:28.0
in the initial phase of the invasion
26:30.0
of Russia, how some of the systems were very
26:32.0
effective. What is your take on those issues?
26:34.7
More army atas yun, to?
26:36.3
This is more in the realm of army, siguro,
26:38.1
na pag HIMARS and all.
26:40.4
I think HIMARS is
26:41.6
a conversation, a current conversation
26:44.3
between armed forces,
26:45.9
and the U.S. forces.
26:57.1
I'm not sure kung na-perfect
26:58.7
na nila yung HIMARS na
27:00.4
pwede gamitin for maritime
27:04.2
environment. But if there is,
27:11.4
acquisition as well. Kasi we need
27:14.7
to balance off yung ano.
27:15.9
Yung BRAMOS natin at the
27:18.0
ship-aside system is
27:19.2
I think our range is around
27:22.9
So that takes care of our
27:24.3
exclusive command zone.
27:26.1
But for shorter ranges, you need a
27:27.9
shorter range weapon system.
27:30.1
So I think the HIMARS
27:31.1
or a similar system
27:34.1
with similar capabilities would fill up
27:40.3
kind of covered some of the conventional part.
27:42.5
Although, yun nga, I know you're more a Navy
27:44.2
guy, so sorry kung I put you in the middle.
27:45.8
Sorry kung I put you in the middle.
27:45.9
Sorry kung I put you in the spot, Admiral, on the
27:47.4
Air Force part. Although, we are all following
27:49.9
what's happening with the Air Force. Some are
27:51.9
saying within days, we may have some sort of
27:53.8
a confirmation whether we're going to go for
27:55.7
Gripen with Sweden over
27:57.8
the F-16 from the United States. I think this will
27:59.9
later on bring us to the more serious
28:01.6
I mean, not serious, more serious.
28:03.9
Just a serious conversation about U.S.
28:06.5
Philippine Alliance, especially as I
28:07.8
speak to you now from Washington, D.C.
28:09.8
But before going there, need to say
28:11.9
U.S. Philippine Alliance
28:13.1
partnerships, etc.
28:15.9
Let's talk about the asymmetric part a little bit
28:17.6
more. Let me push things
28:19.6
a little bit. I mean, do
28:21.6
you think it makes sense for the Philippines also
28:23.6
to have not only, I don't know,
28:25.7
suicide drones, autonomous
28:27.5
suicide boats, yung mga ganyan na
28:29.6
ginagamit ng some of the
28:30.9
forces in the Middle East, for instance, as a kind of
28:33.5
deterrent and potential weapons against the
28:35.5
U.S. if things go down the
28:37.5
road, go downhill
28:39.4
all the way. But also
28:41.4
in terms of, I don't know, I mean,
28:43.6
pwede rin tayo mag-develop ng mga militias natin.
28:45.9
And I'm going to put some of our
28:47.2
feistier Filipino people there. I mean,
28:49.8
what are we looking at here? Because obviously
28:51.6
there's always this escalation domination,
28:53.6
right? I mean, if we have, for every
28:55.4
hundred drones we can deploy, I think the Chinese
28:57.5
can deploy a million drones or something.
28:59.4
You get what I'm saying? It's not like China is
29:01.2
not a master of asymmetrical warfare
29:03.5
itself. I mean, in a way, we're saying, let's do to
29:05.5
China what China wants to do to the U.S., right?
29:08.5
Their developments
29:09.4
of ACBMs, their developments of all these
29:11.4
drone systems. What are we looking at here?
29:13.5
Do you think that the Philippines should also develop its own
29:15.6
drone industry? I think Ukraine has
29:17.3
done a pretty good job of going from zero
29:19.5
to something, not maybe hero yet, but
29:21.4
realistically, in terms
29:23.7
of, kasi supply chain yung pinag-usapan
29:25.9
natin, do you think the Philippines is also in
29:27.5
position to develop its own drone
29:29.6
and some of the asymmetric capability
29:31.3
development industry? Assuming we can get
29:33.5
the semiconductors and all from Taiwan
29:35.3
and other countries, yeah.
29:38.1
Well, I would agree
29:39.5
dun sa proposal na to build our
29:41.5
own drones sa Pilipinas.
29:43.8
But yung context niya is dapat
29:47.5
yung ecosystem niya would
29:49.5
be the self-reliance defense program,
29:53.5
takilatag niyon. Because there are some
29:55.7
things that you need to undertake
29:59.6
first para that can be a viable
30:01.5
ano. So we're not only talking of drones, no?
30:03.4
We're talking of how do we create a
30:05.4
viable defense industry in the Philippines to support
30:07.6
its own requirements.
30:10.5
in our conversation
30:13.3
with my colleagues about defense
30:15.4
industry kasi, you cannot
30:19.5
type of industry na ang market mo is
30:21.5
armed forces lang. Hindi pwedeng
30:23.2
Pilipinas lang. If you
30:25.5
are going to pursue that
30:26.9
type of industry, you need to
30:29.5
think global. You need to
30:31.5
think of a global market
30:33.4
or at least a regional market.
30:36.0
Kasi kung ano, hindi siya viable.
30:38.5
The worst thing that...
30:39.1
Economies of scale. You mean the economies of scale.
30:41.3
You have to produce at certain scale with certain
30:43.4
market. Otherwise, yung margins mo is two,
30:45.4
to make it viable.
30:47.6
Correct. The point is,
30:49.4
government or the armed forces should
30:53.4
business of conducting business.
30:55.8
We should let private
30:57.6
sector perform this
30:59.3
function. But for private
31:01.4
sector to have a buy-in on this type
31:03.4
of activity, it must
31:07.1
So the ecosystem, the
31:09.4
legal and the industrial
31:11.5
ecosystem for that must be
31:12.9
ilatag mo muna. Then we can talk
31:17.2
in the Philippines.
31:23.7
naiayos mo na yun
31:29.0
just the other week,
31:29.9
there was a delegation
31:35.1
Indian ambassador,
31:37.8
companies are looking at
31:40.3
latest, I don't know,
31:41.2
third world client,
31:42.3
but they're looking
31:43.0
at joint ventures.
31:44.1
They're looking at
31:45.2
soft loans and all
31:46.4
to kind of develop
31:47.4
also our industry
31:48.3
in terms of developing
31:49.4
armored vehicles,
31:51.8
some of these things.
31:52.7
What do you think about that?
31:53.7
Do you think maybe
31:54.6
that's the way forward
31:55.5
that we have joint ventures?
31:56.9
I think Indonesia,
31:58.7
fifth generation fighter program
32:00.6
with South Korea, right?
32:02.0
Do you think that's
32:02.7
kind of the way forward?
32:04.4
Because I imagine
32:05.0
behind the curve style,
32:06.5
but at the same time,
32:07.3
we're a mid-sized economy,
32:08.5
a fast-growing economy.
32:10.3
I think we can do better
32:12.3
from different countries, right?
32:13.7
But maybe joint ventures?
32:16.1
mid-level countries
32:18.5
or more than mid-level
32:20.9
is perhaps the way forward?
32:25.4
and tech transfer
32:26.4
goes hand in hand.
32:30.1
to the conversation
32:35.2
for tech transfer
32:40.2
you also need to develop
32:41.2
the industrial capacity.
32:45.2
and the humanware.
32:56.7
the Air Force is buying
32:57.5
aircraft in Indonesia.
33:05.7
even the light transport.
33:07.4
the ships we'll get
33:17.4
pinag-aaralan nila yung
33:20.8
corporation natin
33:21.6
dito sa Pilipinas.
33:23.6
Binalik nila sa Indonesia.
33:27.6
running that concept.
33:30.4
Hindi nag-prosper yun.
33:32.7
Parang ano to eh,
33:33.4
yung same situation
33:38.7
and then set it up.
33:39.3
They learn from us.
33:40.7
Niluto tayo sa sarili natin
33:46.2
sa Indonesia naman,
33:52.0
we're better than them
33:53.4
in terms of quality.
33:56.4
they're just better
34:00.2
running that industry.
34:06.2
some factors here that
34:09.7
that prevents us from
