01:01.7
Pag-uusapan po natin, yung pong pagbisita ni mahal na Pangulong Ferdinand Bongbo Marcos Jr. sa Canberra.
01:07.6
Ito po yung capital city ng Australia.
01:10.2
And sabi nga nila, historic.
01:12.7
Sa kauna-una ng pagkakataon, ang Presidente ng Pilipinas ay nag-inadress ang dalawang kapulungan ng Australian Parliament doon po sa Canberra.
01:21.4
So siguro, kung akala ng mga supporters ni President Marcos,
01:27.0
including himself, na talagang hayahay yung kanyang pagbisita roon,
01:30.9
medyo nabigla siya.
01:32.2
Dahil meron po isang Australianong senadora.
01:35.0
Ang pangalan po si Janet Rice.
01:37.8
Well, nag-flash po ng placard sa kalagitnaan ng talumpati ni BBM.
01:44.4
At sinabi, stop the human rights abuses.
01:47.7
Yun po yung pag-uusapan natin ngayong gabi.
01:50.2
Ayoko nang pag-uusapan.
01:54.1
Nadidinig ko pa rin ng mga comment ng maraming Pilipino.
01:57.0
Online, sinasabi, kabastusan yung ginawa sa Pangulo.
02:00.8
Pero let's look at the deeper issues.
02:03.6
Yun ang pag-uusapan natin ngayong gabi.
02:05.2
That's why I decided to invite Mr. Caloy Conde.
02:10.5
Siya po ang Philippine researcher ng Human Rights Watch at isa rin pong veteranong periodista na nakatutok po ngayon sa issues ng human rights.
02:19.3
I'd like to welcome Mr. Caloy Conde to our podcast tonight.
02:24.8
Magandang gabi, Caloy.
02:27.0
Magandang gabi, Cristian.
02:27.9
And magandang gabi sa lahat ng mga Sankaterbang fans mo.
02:31.0
Happy to be here.
02:32.1
Grabe naman yung Sankaterba, no?
02:35.1
Pag-uusapan natin yung mga fans ni mahal na Pangulong Ferdinand Bombong Marcos Jr.
02:39.7
na mukhang na-offend doon sa ginawa sa kanya ng isang senador, no?
02:44.6
Unang-unang, let's put this in perspective, no?
02:46.9
Kabastusan ba yung ginawa sa Pangulo ng Pilipinas doon sa Parliament?
02:51.0
Well, depende yan kung saan ka nanggagaling, eh.
02:54.6
Siyempre, yung...
02:57.0
Canberra kasi sa Australia, merong ibang-ibang partido yan, eh.
03:00.4
May mga conservative, may mga label, may mga gano'n.
03:03.4
Pero meron yung mga partido na tinatawag na Greens.
03:05.8
Ito yung mga environmentalists, mga activists,
03:08.7
na membro ng parliamentary, ng parliament ng Australia.
03:14.1
At isa na dito si Miss Janet Rice.
03:17.0
At kung kitignan mo, talagang masasabi mo siguro kung paborito mo o kung idol mo si Miss...
03:27.0
Dr. Marcos, eh, pambabastos.
03:28.9
Kaya lang, siyempre, hindi mo naman dapat isantabi yung mga issues na sinabi niya
03:35.6
just because hindi mo nagustuhan yung paraan niya.
03:38.8
Yan ang pag-usapan natin.
03:40.6
Yung pinakasustansya.
03:42.7
Actually, pinakamilalaman noong placard ni Senator Janet Rice.
03:46.6
Sabi niya, stop the human rights abuses.
03:48.7
May mga iba kasi, nakakala, nagkamali yata yung senadora
03:52.7
dahil dapat daw ang tinutukoy niya si President Duterte.
03:57.0
So, kaya kita in-invite kasi kayo talaga nakatutok dyan sa mga datos
04:01.6
sa human rights situation dito sa Pilipinas.
04:04.8
So, is that a fair criticism na sa panahon ni President Marcos
04:09.6
tuloy pa rin yung iba't ibang klase o forma ng paglabag sa karapatang pantaong?
04:15.4
Oh, definitely, Christian.
04:16.6
I think it is misleading or even an outright falsehood
04:22.0
na wala nang human rights abuses na nangyayari sa Pilipinas ngayon.
04:25.4
Kasi nga, ang tendency ng marami,
04:28.8
yung panahon ni Duterte na libu-libuan naman tayo sa drug war,
04:33.5
Actually, hindi pa.
04:35.6
May marami tayong pwedeng isa-isahin ng mga issue
04:38.2
ng paglabag sa karapatang pantaong dito sa Pilipinas
04:41.0
na tuloy-tuloy pa rin sa panunungkulan ni Mr. Marcos.
04:45.4
And in fact, mayroong iba na in fact lumalapa sa tingin namin.
04:50.0
So, fair yung point ni Senator Rice
04:53.6
at fair yung criticism niya.
04:54.8
Mayroong criticism against kay President Marcos.
04:57.1
In fact, kami mismo sa Human Rights Watch,
04:58.6
on the day itself na nagsalita siya doon,
05:01.9
nagpalabas kami ng tinatawag namin na dispatch or statement,
05:04.8
yung aming Australia director ang nagpalabas dito,
05:07.2
na hinihimok niya ang mga membro ng Parliament ng Australia
05:11.9
na huwag na lang basta lulukin kung ano yung sabihin ni Mr. Marcos
05:15.6
tungkol sa human rights.
05:18.2
At syempre, nagagala kami,
05:19.9
na binigyang buhay or ni-raise ni Senator Rice itong issue.
05:24.8
Kasi mahalaga ito.
05:26.4
Kasi Christian, alam mo, napapansin mo,
05:28.2
meron kasing tumatakbo ngayon na tendency among people
05:33.4
na dahil nga wala na si Duterte,
05:36.3
eh okay na, okay na at lahat.
05:38.6
Hindi po yung totoo.
05:39.8
Pag-usapan po natin una lang,
05:41.6
may siguro yung iba,
05:42.5
pero kahit sa usapin na lang ng drug war, Christian,
05:45.6
minsan nag-parang siramplaka na rin ako
05:48.9
pag pinag-uusapan ito along with other colleagues,
05:51.7
including yourself, no?
05:54.8
tuloy-tuloy pa rin ang patayan sa drug war.
05:58.6
In fact, ngayon, meron ng mahigit limang daan ang patay sa drug war
06:04.9
Ito yung monitoring ng University of the Philippines
06:07.6
sa Third World Study Center, yung DAHASPH.
06:11.1
Tuloy-tuloy pa rin.
06:12.4
Ang nasa ano nito,
06:14.4
ang pinaka-basic na rason dito is because
06:17.0
si Mr. Marcos, hindi naman niya tinigil ang drug war officially.
06:21.2
Wala siyang ginawa,
06:22.1
wala siyang hakbang para,
06:24.8
tanggalin yung mga order ni Presidente Duterte sa PNP
06:28.3
at sa kung kanino pa tungkol sa drug war.
06:31.3
In effect pa rin yung mga yan.
06:32.7
At ito ay nag-o-operationalize pa rin sa tuloy-tuloy na drug war.
06:38.0
I-contextualize pa natin yan.
06:39.7
So, kahit sinabi ni BBM before na,
06:43.4
di ba, magkofocus siya rin sa paghuli sa mga big fish,
06:49.0
tapos supposedly mas magiging centered sa perspective na
06:53.8
it's a public interest.
06:54.6
It's a public health issue.
06:57.6
Rehabilitation instead of purely law enforcement.
07:01.6
Hindi ba nasunod d'yon in actual implementation?
07:05.6
Well, that's the thing.
07:07.6
Kung pakikinig mo, maganda naman talaga.
07:09.6
We support the idea na rehabilitation ang focus na,
07:12.6
you know, even admitting na hindi ito a crime issue but a public health issue
07:18.1
was a big leap from the policy before.
07:21.6
The problem is that we're still not seeing
07:24.6
kung ano yung any significant achievement
07:27.6
ng sinasabi niyang shift na ito.
07:29.6
Kasi meron kaming mga,
07:31.6
kinakausap namin, mga civil society groups,
07:33.6
mga tinatawag na harm reduction groups ay
07:35.6
questionable pa rin yung mga rehabilitation effort na pinapa
07:39.6
ini-implement ng gobyerno.
07:42.6
So, the jury is still out on that one.
07:44.6
Now, we're not saying na hindi ginagawa ng gobyerno
07:47.6
itong mga ganitong bagay.
07:49.6
Ginagawa naman, mukhang may hakbang naman silang ginagawa.
07:52.6
Hindi lang enough
07:53.6
para masabi na ito na yung,
07:55.6
it's a complete break from what was happening in the past.
07:58.6
But on the other hand,
08:00.6
well, quite aside from that,
08:02.6
tuloy-tuloy pa rin yung violence.
08:04.6
You know, half of the killings na monitor ng UP ay
08:08.6
perpetrated by police, by law enforcers.
08:11.6
Half of them by unidentified people.
08:14.6
Pero may relation sa drug.
08:18.6
So, we're not saying na totally ang gobyernong ito ay,
08:23.6
you know, hindi ginagawa yung,
08:25.6
hindi nilalagyan ng laman yung mga rhetoric niya about rehab,
08:28.6
about, pero kulang pa rin eh.
08:30.6
Kasi tuloy-tuloy pa rin yung patayan.
08:32.6
Yung mga controversial na memo ng PNP regarding Tokhang,
08:36.6
hindi pa ba siya nare-rescind?
08:38.6
Well, as far as we know, hindi pa rin.
08:40.6
Andiyan pa rin yan.
08:41.6
And in fact, even the,
08:46.6
the PIDEA, still, you know,
08:48.6
naglalabas din sila lagi ng mga report about
08:51.6
the progress ng kanilang mga raids.
08:52.6
At tuloy-tuloy pa rin yung
08:56.6
And just on that point,
08:58.6
yung sabi nga eh,
09:00.6
supply reduction, eh,
09:02.6
magugulat ka sa mga press release ng PIDEA na
09:04.6
billion-billion pa rin yung
09:06.6
nahuhuli nilang mga,
09:08.6
nakakamkam nilang mga drug,
09:10.6
nasasamsam nilang mga illegal drugs
09:13.6
on a regular basis. So,
09:15.6
looks like yung supply eh,
09:17.6
hindi rin na-address ng mas,
09:23.6
Yung binabanggit mo na datos,
09:25.6
sa dahas.ph na tama ba?
09:28.6
Third World Studies.
09:30.6
Yung 500 killed sa ilalim ng
09:33.6
rehimeng Ferdinand Bombong Marcos,
09:36.6
Marcos Jr. so far,
09:38.6
lahat yan ng laban?
09:39.6
Based on their classification?
09:42.6
Officially, hindi.
09:44.6
Kasi kalahati nga lang ng,
09:45.6
halos kalahati ang,
09:47.6
ano yan, ay police lang yung
09:49.6
na-identify, nakapatay.
09:52.6
Yung iba, kalahati ay
09:54.6
unidentified assailants na,
09:56.6
which is exactly the same
09:58.6
kind of profile nung killings
10:01.6
under Duterte. Kasi marami doon
10:03.6
mga anti-drug raid ng mga police
10:05.6
ng PIDEA pero marami din doon
10:07.6
ay mga gunmen lang na hindi natin
10:10.6
alam kung sino pero we have
10:12.6
reason to believe na baka sa na
10:14.6
galing din sa gobyerno. So,
10:16.6
hindi siya officially sinasabing nanlaban.
10:19.6
In fact, ang police hindi na nagre-release
10:21.6
ng datos eh. Dati kasi,
10:23.6
nung panahon ni Duterte, nagre-release
10:26.6
sila ng datos to say na ito,
10:28.6
this number of people were killed
10:30.6
because nanlaban. Ngayon wala na.
10:32.6
So, nasa analysis na lang ng mga
10:33.6
monitors kung ano yung mga cases na
10:35.6
mga nanlaban. But again, I think a
10:38.6
more important issue, Christian,
10:40.6
is the fact that a great majority
10:42.6
of these killings remain
10:44.6
uninvestigated. We are not,
10:47.6
we do not know kung ano ang ginagawa
10:50.6
ng Department of Justice, whether
10:52.6
it's investigating the cases that's
10:54.6
happening under Marcos in a way that's
10:56.6
different from the lack of
10:58.6
investigation that they did during the
11:00.6
time of Duterte. So, yun ang nakababahala
11:03.6
din yun kasi majority of these cases
11:05.6
are uninvestigated.
11:09.6
Actually, hindi nang gusto kong puntahan.
11:11.6
Eventually, isa yun sa mga pinakamahirap
11:13.6
ipaliwanag sa mga tao. Yung prinsipyo
11:15.6
ng due process at saka yung responsibility
11:17.6
ng Estado na imbistigahan, hindi lang iproblema.
11:20.6
Hindi lang ito yung hayang prevent
11:23.6
o gumawa ng isang environment na hindi
11:25.6
dapat merong kultura ng impunity.
11:27.6
May sabihin kung nangyayari yung crime na
11:29.6
ganyan, responsibility ng Estado na
11:31.6
papanagutin niyo may sala. So, isa yun sa mga
11:33.6
punta na dapat natin pinag-uusapan.
11:35.4
Pero again, just to put things in perspective,
11:37.6
doon sa 500 na binabanggit mo na datos,
11:39.6
kalahati doon, police ang nakapatay?
11:41.6
Yung kalahati mukha bang vigilante style
11:43.6
killings or halo-halo na yun?
11:45.6
Mainly, parang vigilante style killing na tawag nila.
11:48.6
Although, we don't necessarily, we don't officially call it that.
11:50.6
call it that. Pero
11:52.5
halo-halo na yun. Mga may
11:56.1
mga killings dyan na baka
12:00.1
syndicates ang tumira.
12:03.2
Hindi naman natin
12:04.1
binabaliwala yung possibility na yan.
12:06.3
Pero the fact that half of the
12:08.6
killings are perpetrated by
12:12.6
you know, it's worrisome
12:15.9
Kasi nga, kaya ako rin gusto malaman kung lahat ba yun
12:18.5
ang laban. Kasi yung
12:19.5
PNP under President Duterte
12:22.3
ni Yabang Pe, di ba?
12:24.3
Official figures nila, until they stopped
12:26.5
counting, I think nasa at least 6,200
12:28.8
officially, lahat daw yun
12:30.5
ang laban. Kaya nga, it boggles
12:32.4
the mind na, ah lahat yan ang laban.
12:34.3
So ano yung resulta ng investigasyon?
12:36.3
So hanggang ngayon, wala pa rin linaw kung
12:38.2
iniimbestigahan ba lahat yan. So
12:40.2
kasi naman, in fairness din naman, di ba?
12:42.1
Kung ikaw yung law enforcer ka, Kaloy
12:43.9
syempre pag nagkaroon ka ng isang law enforcement
12:46.3
na legitimate operation
12:47.6
eh talagang pwede may mapatay dyan.
12:50.1
Oh yeah. So yun ang gusto kong
12:52.1
gusto ko sa'yo i-contextualize.
12:54.2
Ilan ba rin dito sa 500
12:55.8
or sa kalahati ng lumandaan?
12:57.8
Yung baka naman legit police operations
12:59.7
tapos talagang ng laban. Hindi yung
13:01.9
shortcut. Kasi tricky part
13:04.0
Christian. Kasi in the absence of
13:06.0
any, you know, investigation
13:07.7
we wouldn't know.
13:11.3
questionable pa rin in fact yung
13:13.5
kooperasyon ng PNP dun sa mga
13:15.6
accountability monitors. Like for
13:17.6
instance, I mean, you know, they're not
13:19.3
cooperating with the CHR in investigations
13:21.3
and not being forthcoming
13:23.3
with information about
13:25.1
the status of investigations. I mean, to this day
13:27.4
we're not very clear
13:29.5
kung ilan na ba talaga yung natapos ng DOJ
13:31.7
naimbestigahan dun sa mga
13:33.3
cases ng panahon pa ni Duterte. And keep
13:35.4
in mind, they claim at the start
13:37.5
of the Marcos administration
13:38.7
that hindi naman nila
13:41.5
sinabing, hindi nila papansinin yung
13:43.4
mga namatay under Duterte. Pero mas
13:45.3
magtututok sila sa mga dun sa mga
13:47.6
nangyari under Marcos. Okay, fine.
13:49.9
Sige. Pero even that, it's
13:51.6
not very clear kung ano na yung
13:53.4
kumbaga nagawa nila.
13:55.7
And that's something na
13:57.4
lagi nating binabalik-balikan.
13:59.5
Kasi there's this whole
14:02.5
mas maigi na ngayon
14:05.0
ang panahon. Pero if you, kung
14:07.3
babalikan mo yung datos ng
14:09.1
the HUSPH, Christian, yung unang report nila
14:15.4
in their own analysis of the data,
14:17.6
that actually, mas marami
14:19.6
ang namatay in the first
14:21.4
year of Mr. Marcos, kaysa
14:23.4
last year under Duterte.
14:25.4
Now, you know, you can make of that whatever
14:27.4
you want, but, you know, it's
14:31.8
So, kasi nga, again,
14:33.5
balik tayo dun sa point, the drug war
14:35.2
has not been rescinded. It's still an
14:37.2
official state policy to this day.
14:41.6
Kung ganun yung ano, yung,
14:43.1
pag-usapan natin isa rin sa mga
14:45.5
matinding issues,
14:47.6
issues nung kaugnay sa
14:49.5
drug war nung anim na taon
14:51.3
under Duterte. Yung quota system
14:53.5
daw sa mga polis para
14:57.4
Napabalita yan. Mati ba yun?
14:59.7
That's still in existence?
15:03.3
honest, we don't know.
15:07.4
the sense from the police
15:09.4
and from the government
15:11.6
that that's no longer
15:17.6
a part of me wants to
15:19.0
take their word for it. I mean,
15:21.3
certainly, the police now is
15:23.3
no longer under the same immense
15:25.5
pressure that Duterte
15:29.6
on them during his regime.
15:33.0
Alala mo dati, under Duterte, laging sinasabi niya,
15:35.6
oh, huwag niya mag-alala, kasi
15:36.6
kayo, kinasawa kayo, akong bahala sa inyo.
15:39.9
Shoot, shoot, shoot lang kayo.
15:41.2
Kill, kill, kill lang kayo. So, wala na yung
15:43.5
ganun klaseng rhetoric na
15:45.1
nakakapressure din naman kahit papano sa mga
15:47.5
police. So, we'd like to think
15:51.6
yung pressure nila to do this
15:53.4
sort of thing. And I hope na ganun nga yung
15:55.3
nangyayari. So, siguro, that can be
15:57.5
ano, that can be seen as an
15:59.4
improvement, quote-unquote.
16:01.2
Hindi na direkta nang gagaling sa Pangulo
16:03.1
yung pagpapatayin niya, di ba?
16:05.3
Pero yun nga, patahan natin yung
16:06.7
accountability. Wala pa talagang
16:09.2
na-monitor na efforts to
16:11.4
hold those police officers
16:13.0
accountable dun sa mga ginawang walang
16:15.3
habas na pagpatay, dun sa mga di umano
16:17.5
laban. Pero yun pala, pinatay lang talaga.
16:19.9
I think it would be
16:21.1
I think it would be unfair to
16:27.1
wala talagang ginawa. Meron
16:29.4
namang mga hakbang na ginagawa
16:31.3
ang manggilan-ngilan sa PNP.
16:33.5
I'd like to think na yung
16:34.6
internal affairs office ng PNP
16:37.4
ay nagkatrabaho din naman
16:39.6
kahit papano. And in fact,
16:42.5
some would even say
16:43.5
na yung leadership
16:45.7
changes sa PNP ngayon has
16:47.5
created an atmosphere of
16:51.1
and of an atmosphere na
16:53.4
wala na yung fear
16:54.5
na mayani nung panahon ni Duterte.
17:03.4
bagong kalakaran ngayon sa
17:07.7
changed the fact that, again,
17:10.3
the PNP as an institution
17:11.8
based on our kind of
17:13.7
analysis of it, is a broken,
17:15.8
dysfunctional institution as far as
17:17.5
accountability is concerned.
17:19.3
You cannot expect the police
17:21.2
to investigate its own, even with the
17:23.4
existence of the internal affairs office.
17:27.6
Simply because most of the
17:29.2
perpetrators in the past, and even
17:31.4
now, half of them,
17:34.0
people from the organization.
17:37.4
So, I mean, it parang ano eh,
17:39.8
medyo pipilitin mong paniwalaan
17:42.1
yung sa paniwalaan
17:44.0
gumagawa sila ng hakbang.
17:47.5
Hindi natin nakikita ito sa
17:51.7
Eh, kalay yung isang
17:54.1
issue. Kasi, nung panahon ni
17:55.8
Duterte, napakahirap maging
17:59.4
laban doon sa mga
18:01.0
na nag-abuso sa kapangyarihan,
18:03.4
ito nga rin sa kapulisan, dahil
18:05.0
una-una, pag-biktima ka, wala kang
18:07.2
akses doon sa records. Tapos, yung iba
18:11.6
lagyan nyo sa death certificate, pneumonia.
18:13.6
Miski malinaw na tinamaan ng bala.
18:15.8
May mga documented cases na ganyan.
18:19.5
ganun bang kultura, medyo
18:21.3
nabawasan ba yun? Nung nagpalit
18:23.7
ng administration? Kumbaga,
18:25.5
mas hindi na ganun kahirap para
18:27.5
sa isang biktima na lumapit sa
18:29.3
polis kahit na ang ire-reklamo niya
18:31.2
kabaro. I'm not so sure
18:33.6
about that, Christian, kung ganyan ba talaga na ngayon.
18:35.6
Kasi, based on my own experience as
18:37.5
a researcher, you know,
18:38.6
a few months ago, I went
18:42.4
mission, tawag namin doon,
18:45.9
sa mga communities,
18:47.5
Maynila, ang mga biktima
18:49.8
ng drug war under Marcos.
18:52.2
Marami ang nag-back out ng mga interviews
18:54.0
kasi takot pa rin sila.
18:57.8
takot pa sila. And then, merong napabalita
19:02.1
a credible human rights organization,
19:05.8
may lumalapit sa mga
19:07.3
pamilya ng mga biktima ng mga
19:09.4
drug war noong panahon dito
19:11.0
ni Duterte at even yung mga nangyayari na ngayon
19:13.8
na pinapasign sila ng waiver
19:15.5
na huwag na silang mag-testify.
19:17.5
Na huwag nang mag-sampa ng kaso.
19:20.0
So, yung mga ganyang klaseng
19:23.9
it doesn't, ano eh, hindi siya
19:25.3
nagko-contribute na para ma-ease yung
19:27.4
fear natin about the PNP.
19:33.3
babalikan ko yung
19:33.9
point ko na ang PNP as it is
19:35.9
historically an organization
19:38.3
na may problema sila sa accountability
19:41.5
The least the PNP can do
19:50.7
sagkain yung mga efforts
19:54.4
ng mga accountability mechanisms
19:58.6
cases na may kinalaman
20:00.7
ang PNP. At the very least,
20:03.2
we're talking about, for instance,
20:04.4
the CHR. They're saying na may
20:06.3
nako-cooperate, but the CHR has been
20:08.2
complaining na walas ng cooperation na kukuha sa police.
20:12.4
about the only kind of
20:14.5
independent government institution
20:17.5
this thing. Kasi sa DOJ,
20:21.0
wala kang halos nakikitang
20:28.1
gusto ko ma-point out dito, Christian,
20:30.3
na at least man lang,
20:35.0
ng sincerity na i-engage
20:36.6
talaga yung CHR, for instance.
20:38.5
Now, we're not saying na pag ginawa nila yun,
20:40.8
eh, okay na lahat. Kasi meron pa rin
20:42.7
ng mga mga porte. Meron pa rin
20:44.4
ng mga due process na gagawin.
20:45.8
Meron pa rin namang
20:47.8
pag-iimbestiga na dapat
20:49.7
gawin na not necessarily
20:55.9
ganung mga bagay. So, wala na nga
20:57.8
yung takot siguro
20:58.8
among the police.
21:04.0
yung legacy issues in terms of
21:10.1
competence, I mean, yung mga issue ni Dr.
21:13.6
Raquel Fortun, issue pa rin yan.
21:15.5
Hanggang ngayon, yung mga mali-mali
21:17.6
yung mga entry sa mga death certificate,
21:20.0
mali-mali yung mga sinasabi ng
21:21.6
polis tungkol sa kung ano ba talaga nakita nila
21:25.3
These are competency
21:27.9
issues na hanggang ngayon ay
21:29.6
pinagpuloy na pa rin natin sa PNP.
21:34.0
Actually, napakaraming dapat
21:35.3
linisin o kailangan linisin.
21:37.6
Pero, fair ba na, kunwari,
21:39.6
komento ng iba, baka naman masyadong
21:41.6
nagmamadali in terms of accountability
21:43.8
dahil dalawang taon pa rin.
21:45.5
Pa lang yung administrasyon
21:49.6
Although, it can also be seen
21:51.4
in a different way.
21:53.4
In two years, marami kang pwedeng gawin.
21:57.1
In two years, marami kang pwedeng gawin
21:59.1
kung gusto mo talagang gawin. I mean, if you're the president,
22:01.5
I mean, if you really believe in these issues,
22:04.0
marami kang pwedeng gawin. I think
22:05.3
a bottom-line issue for me here
22:07.5
is, are these principled positions
22:09.7
ng gobyernong ito
22:11.0
ang human rights? Kasi kung
22:13.1
ang protecting human rights,
22:15.5
and making sure accountability happens
22:17.4
is a principled position,
22:19.5
mas madaling gawin yun. Mas madaling
22:21.4
mangyari yun. Kasi kung ang ginagawa mo
22:23.8
lang ito dahil ang ingi-ingay
22:25.7
ng mga NGO, ang ingay na
22:27.0
nakukulitan na sila sa mga embassies
22:29.2
na laging binibiling up to the issue nito,
22:31.1
hindi principled position yun. Para ka na lang,
22:33.3
okay, sige, patahimikan natin sila gawin natin to.
22:36.6
But, on the other hand,
22:40.9
pag-raise sa mga issues
22:45.5
ng accountability, I think
22:47.5
this should contribute
22:49.7
to the government,
22:51.4
to the government's efforts to really
22:54.3
accountability in a way
23:00.3
hindi katuladate.
23:01.9
I mean, when we say institutionalize,
23:03.8
what do I, what do I
23:05.5
mean by this? One, yung
23:07.1
making sure the Internal Affairs Office
23:09.3
is actually working.
23:11.3
Making sure that the PNP Human Rights Affairs
23:13.4
Office is actually also working
23:15.5
to take, to look into cases of
23:17.4
ah, ah, serious abuses
23:19.5
by police officers. Hindi lang yung mga
23:25.0
nangamit daw yung pulisin ng husband
23:27.3
or what, you know? May mga gano'ng
23:29.4
cases kasi, I mean, hindi man natin mila maliit
23:31.6
yun, pero, ah, gano'n.
23:33.5
Ang pangatlo, the PNP
23:35.7
itself should really
23:39.5
maging proactive sila as far as the
23:41.5
drug war is concerned. Nakikita nila na
23:43.3
na-incriminate yung mga tao nila.
23:45.5
Because of the policy,
23:47.3
I mean, you should take a position na, sandali,
23:48.9
let's step back a little bit and see whether
23:51.3
this is still good for us.
23:53.6
At mayon, and of course, weeding out
23:55.1
corruption, we, we are making sure that
23:57.3
police are competent. I mean,
23:59.3
hindi nawawalan ng resources ang PNP
24:01.4
pagdating sa, for instance,
24:03.4
ah, improving their investigation
24:05.0
skills. Even, even
24:07.3
ah, weapons and firearms, mayroon
24:09.2
naman nagdo-donate sa kanila. Foreign
24:11.0
countries have been, ah,
24:13.1
donating resources, money,
24:15.5
to improve the PNP's way of
24:17.1
investigating. Pero, hindi na, hindi na
24:19.2
tinakikita on the ground yung result na yan.
24:23.0
Puntahan naman natin yung ICC issue. Isa rin
24:25.0
to sa mga binanggit ni, ah, Senator
24:26.9
Janet Rice, no? Yung ICC.
24:33.5
may position si President Marcos, no?
24:35.4
Issue of sovereignty and jurisdiction.
24:37.7
Yung pagpapapasok sa ICC.
24:39.8
Pero syempre, parang merong mixed
24:41.1
signals. Kaya kami lukabado itong
24:43.3
ah, Duterte, tsaka yung kanyang mga aliporis,
24:45.5
ang syikofans, no?
24:47.1
Ah, kaya nga sa ambasa ng iba,
24:49.1
kaya sobrang takot na yung
24:51.0
Duterte, o nagwawala, o pabago-bago
24:53.0
yung posisyon, dahil baka raw papasok
24:55.0
na yung mga taga-ICC kung hindi
24:57.0
pa man dumating noong Desyembre.
24:59.7
Kung sakaling magkaroon ng ano,
25:01.2
pagbabago sa official position ng
25:02.9
Marcos administration, at mag-cooperate nga
25:04.9
officially sa ICC,
25:07.1
how big a deal is this in terms of
25:09.0
belying allegations
25:10.5
that it's doing nothing
25:12.1
when it comes to promoting human rights?
25:15.5
it's going to be a big deal, to be honest.
25:18.0
You know, it's something
25:21.5
ang Marcos administration that they're going to
25:23.5
cooperate and they're going to help the ICC
25:27.4
then, and that is going to be a game changer,
25:29.4
I think, and that will have an impact on how
25:31.4
the, on local politics,
25:34.2
on the politics of this
25:35.5
country from here on out,
25:39.6
But, is that going to happen?
25:44.2
It all depends, I mean,
25:45.5
the analysis by many, and, you know,
25:49.0
I believe, I kind of,
25:51.3
I subscribe to this analysis,
25:53.5
is that the ICC issue hinges
25:59.6
As long as Duterte and the Marcoses
26:01.4
are, you know, are still trying to be civil
26:03.6
toward each other,
26:07.7
chance for the government to welcome
26:09.8
the ICC, or to cooperate with the
26:13.9
when all, you know,
26:17.7
open season, na talagang lantaran
26:19.7
na yung confrontation
26:21.5
between the two sides,
26:23.7
you know, the ICC issue becomes
26:25.9
one of those political weapons
26:28.7
the administration would be
26:31.9
very, very willing
26:33.8
to use against the Dutertes.
26:36.4
And that would be very, very
26:37.8
unfortunate, kung ganun lang naman kasi
26:39.5
ang basehan nila for cooperating
26:41.9
with the ICCs, because they're now
26:43.6
no longer seeing eye to eye with the
26:45.5
Duterte. That's where my position
26:47.9
really, earlier, on
26:49.7
principled stance
26:54.0
So, kung principled yung
26:55.8
position ni Mr. Marcos on the ICC
26:57.9
and on accountability,
26:59.8
regardless of the
27:01.7
political cost, regardless of the political
27:03.6
fallout, gagawin niya yun. But then again,
27:05.9
who are we kidding, right? This is the Philippines
27:07.9
where everything is,
27:09.7
lahat dito pwede mong gawing political
27:11.3
currency. So, you know,
27:13.8
that's my, ano doon.
27:16.8
Inunahan mo ako, Kaloy.
27:19.1
Bago mo ipaliwanag yung principled
27:21.0
stance na yan. Ako pa, ulit-ulit
27:23.2
kong binabanggit dito yun eh. Kung papasukin
27:25.5
man ni Bangbong Marcos yung ICC
27:27.6
o kung mag-ooperate man yung
27:29.2
kanya administration, I don't
27:31.4
think he would be doing that as a matter
27:34.8
deeply rooted belief in the promotion
27:37.5
of human rights and holding those
27:39.3
who abused their power
27:41.3
during the previous administration accountable.
27:45.5
getting back at the political
27:47.7
opponent. Diba? Pero
27:49.6
looking at the bright side, kung sakaling yun
27:51.6
man namangyari, kahit hindi yun ang
27:55.7
na-achieve naman yung, ano, yung
27:57.5
goal ng mga human rights defenders and advocates.
28:00.1
Kailangan pa-consolido ron.
28:01.6
We count our blessings, Christian, in a way.
28:05.5
we'd be happy, we'd certainly
28:09.6
regardless of everything,
28:11.6
Mr. Marcos decides to cooperate with the ICC
28:13.3
because that's what we've been asking him to do.
28:15.5
And if he decides
28:17.8
to do that, then, you know, we would
28:19.7
be, you know, we would be
28:23.7
obviously, but watching
28:25.7
it very, very closely kung talagang totoo
28:33.8
from the outside, madaling sabihin
28:35.8
kasi na, eh, kung meron lang political
28:37.4
will to si Mr. Marcos, ang dali-dali na lang sana
28:39.6
matapos na itong mga
28:41.6
patayin ito, paglabag
28:43.9
sa karapatang pantao na ito, but
28:45.5
you know, again, who are we kidding, right?
28:47.9
Meron tayong mga ando dito, meron tayong
28:49.6
kailangan i-consider about
28:51.3
the nature of Philippine politics.
28:53.6
This is a very, very transactional
28:55.2
political culture
28:57.6
that we have. And anything
28:59.6
can be made into a political currency,
29:01.9
an election currency. So,
29:04.6
kung baga, kung maambunan
29:07.7
man tayo nung epekto, nung
29:09.5
away-away ng magkabilang panig, eh,
29:11.4
well, tanggapin na rin natin.
29:15.5
Kung baga, hindi naman yan ang primary goal.
29:17.3
Pero, nandiyan, eh.
29:19.6
Count your blessings.
29:21.2
Ito, sa panghuli, no, may nag-comment dito.
29:27.2
I don't know kung tinutukoy niya yung
29:29.1
anak o yung ama, pero siguro
29:31.3
I'd like to go on the issue of credibility.
29:35.4
iba naman ang ama sa anak kung gugustuhin mo.
29:38.0
Diba? Ang point ko,
29:39.3
when it comes to credibility issues,
29:40.9
mayroong ba credibility naman yung
29:42.8
Marcos name to promote and
29:45.1
protect human rights, given the
29:47.4
the long history of
29:51.0
from his father's regime. At hindi naman
29:53.1
siya baby noong nangyari yung mga yun.
29:57.2
Well, ako tingin ko dyan, it's not so
29:59.1
much na wala or meron
30:01.1
siyang credibility because, you know,
30:03.5
mga gut feel ng mga tao ngayon,
30:05.0
given the history of the Marcoses, wala naman talagang
30:07.1
credibility ang mga yan.
30:08.5
Just because they won the presidency
30:10.1
again doesn't mean they're willing
30:12.1
to discard all of the, you know,
30:14.0
the sordidness that they did
30:15.4
during the dictatorship of the father.
30:21.5
may kinalaman din naman
30:23.9
to some degree si Mr. Marcos.
30:26.2
Hindi naman siya bata ng panahon ng ditaduryo.
30:28.5
Adult na siya noon, diba?
30:29.7
If I remember correctly.
30:36.3
tingin ang ano namin dyan
30:39.5
pagiging presidente niya
30:44.0
is a very important
30:45.5
milestone sa kanya
30:47.1
and he can make of it whatever he wants.
30:50.5
He can make the presidency
30:52.2
continue the abuses
30:54.5
of his father that were committed
30:56.2
during his father's time
30:57.9
or he can continue the impunity
30:59.6
or, you know, he has a choice
31:03.0
be the different,
31:09.9
Hindi natin aalisin sa kanya yun
31:12.0
because the fact is,
31:14.0
he is in a position
31:15.8
whatever he wants
31:17.3
and we don't want him to go start
31:19.4
to start going after activists
31:21.7
and going on killing people
31:23.0
or threatening people
31:24.6
just because they criticize him,
31:26.3
criticize the administration.
31:28.1
No, we don't want him to do that.
31:30.3
Pero, because he's the president,
31:32.7
we're not saying na
31:34.6
maging santo siya,
31:36.2
pero dapat mag-grow na rin sa kanya
31:38.8
yung responsibility ng office.
31:41.2
I mean, he seems to be
31:42.5
like an intelligent person,
31:48.2
often he seems to speak
31:50.0
in a measured tone
31:56.4
magagamit niya yun
31:59.1
para not so much baguhin
32:01.4
yung image ng mga Marcoses,
32:02.6
but to do what's right.
32:05.0
ang pinaka-konteksta natin dito,
32:07.4
balik ako dun actually
32:08.2
sa tanong mo kanina
32:08.9
na maraming masasabi na
32:09.9
two years pa lang naman.
32:14.0
baka totoo yung issue na gano'n,
32:15.6
na baka masyado pang
32:16.7
maigsi yung panahon
32:17.7
para i-judge natin si Mr. Marcos.
32:20.6
you have to take that,
32:21.8
you have to view that
32:22.6
from the perspective,
32:24.5
from the reality,
32:26.1
that yung predecessor niya
32:28.4
did so much damage,
32:30.5
more than any president
32:33.2
The human rights catastrophe
32:34.5
in this country under the 30
32:37.0
that you would expect
32:39.2
the next president
32:40.1
to take it really,
32:42.0
really seriously.
32:44.0
kung babanjeng-banjeng ganyan
32:46.0
two years pa lang naman,
32:46.8
baka sa three years na,
32:48.8
that reflects on your character as well.
32:51.2
that reflects on how
32:57.4
Well said, Kaloy.
33:01.4
ng sinabi mo, no?
33:02.7
Well, maraming-maraming salamat,
33:04.8
for joining us tonight
33:05.8
and putting things
33:06.7
in the proper perspective.
33:09.8
yung iba mga taong naliligaw
33:14.3
o nagbubulag-bulagan.
33:15.6
Maraming-maraming salamat
33:17.6
Maraming salamat, Christian,
33:22.6
Good luck sa lahat.
33:24.8
Always a pleasure
33:25.5
to speak with you, Kaloy.
33:27.2
Maraming salamat.
33:30.3
Si Mr. Kaloy Conde,
33:31.5
nakausap po natin.
33:33.5
Philippine researcher
33:35.5
ng Human Rights Watch.
33:37.8
Dati pong journalist yan, ha?
33:39.1
Napaka-galing magsulat yan.
33:41.0
Dati pong correspondent
33:42.0
ng New York Times,
33:43.0
siya dito sa Pilipinas.
33:44.7
Yan po si Mr. Kaloy Conde.
33:46.7
Yan po yung gusto ko
33:47.4
ipaliwanag sa inyo kanina, no?
33:50.1
the administration of Duterte
33:51.7
with the current regime
33:53.2
or administration of BBM,
33:55.1
maraming pagbabago,
33:56.0
maraming similarities.
33:57.3
Pero argument ko dyan,
33:59.6
isa sa mga pagbabago dyan,
34:01.7
hindi kayo na nakakarinig
34:03.4
ng presidente nagbumura
34:06.6
seal ng presidency
34:10.6
o yung podium, no?
34:12.6
Hindi kayo na nakakita
34:14.0
na nanghahalik ng babae
34:20.0
o sinasabihan yung mga
34:22.8
kaaway niya sa politika,
34:24.7
yung mga amas ko na,
34:25.9
To borrow his term,
34:27.4
nagbarilin sa vagina,
34:30.1
nadidinig na gano'n.
34:32.2
bumalik sa pagiging disente
34:37.6
That's a good point.
34:40.7
he seems to be saying
34:41.5
all the right things
34:44.4
involving our country.
34:48.4
kung pag-uusapan po natin
34:50.1
yung mandato na nakuha
34:51.0
ng bagong presidente,
34:56.0
Although, alam ko,
34:56.7
may mga magkakomment sa'yo
34:57.6
yung sasabihin nyo,
34:58.4
ah, hindi po totoo yan
34:59.2
kasi smart magic po
35:01.2
yung gumawa niyan.
35:03.6
that's another issue
35:06.8
kung gano'ng kataas
35:08.6
record number of voters
35:10.0
ang sumuporta sa'yo,
35:11.9
e talagang taas dapat
35:15.9
mas mag-deliver ka
35:23.5
hindi mo nakatulad,
35:25.5
yung pinalitan mong
35:29.0
in-authorize yung
35:31.0
pumatay ng pumatay
35:34.2
with the trigger,
35:38.0
hindi mo ginagawa yun
35:39.0
as, as presidente
35:39.9
and that's a good thing,
35:46.2
yung mga nang abuso
35:49.9
nung pinalitan mong
35:51.5
na inabutan mo yan.
35:54.7
gumawa ka ng paraan.
35:55.9
Responsibility po yun
36:04.3
sa kapangyarihan.
36:05.8
Whether it happened
36:06.6
during the previous
36:11.0
mas maalala rin natin
36:14.6
Hindi naman natin
36:15.1
pwedeng sabihin na
36:16.1
talaga nangyayari yan eh.
36:19.6
Kung yung nangyaring
36:23.5
yung mga gumawa po noon
36:25.0
at responsibility po yan
36:29.0
Huwag niyong pagkapansin
36:31.6
kasi mukhang ano no?
36:33.9
naghahanap buhay lang
36:36.3
Kawaan nyo na lang po
36:37.3
mga losers yan eh.
36:39.3
Ganun po talaga yan
36:41.4
Naghahanap buhay lang
36:46.3
Sana makahanap din sila
36:52.4
Bago po tayo magtapos
36:55.6
nag-grocery po ako
36:56.8
dyan sa tabi-tabi
36:58.9
may nakasulubong po ako
37:07.1
yung kanyang asawa
37:07.8
na si Ma'am Venus Lim.
37:10.5
So binabati po natin
37:16.0
Nanonood daw po sila
37:18.9
Actually ngayong gabi
37:19.5
nanonood po sila.
37:21.1
tsaka Ma'am Venus
37:21.9
maraming salamat po
37:24.5
Nagkaroon po kami
37:25.0
ng content picture taking
37:28.9
Maraming maraming salamat po
37:31.0
Ramdam na ramdam ko po
37:32.0
yung pag-suporta nyo.
37:33.5
Maraming salamat po.
37:35.6
nag-message po sa akin
37:36.9
si Emma Ruth Alejandro.
37:39.2
team replay daw siya.
37:41.6
auntie ni Eunice.
37:43.6
nakilala natin sa Paris.
37:45.0
Nagkaroon po tayo
37:45.7
ng maliit na meeting
37:50.1
Binabati po natin
37:51.1
yung youngest brother
37:57.4
Ngayon ba o kahapon?
38:00.2
nabasa yung message nyo.
38:03.6
Happy birthday sa'yo
38:07.0
Leap year pinanganak
38:07.9
kaya ngayon lang ulit
38:12.7
Uliw ako sa batuhan nyo.
38:14.7
kayo yung dalawa.
38:20.1
Tapos nag-message din po
38:23.2
Shout out naman po.
38:25.7
Birthday niya bukas
38:27.8
Yung mother ko rin po.
38:29.5
Get well soon din po
38:30.3
kay Miss Virgie Rillo.
38:32.2
Avid viewers daw po
38:34.1
Maraming maraming
38:34.6
salamat po sa inyo.
38:40.1
nag-message po siya.
38:51.6
dyan po sa Sydney.
38:54.4
Maraming salamat po sa inyo.
38:58.8
Nag-message siya.
39:03.4
Nakita rin yung mga
39:04.6
nung nasa Sydney tayo.
39:12.3
pinaparood daw po
39:14.8
Hindi rin niya ako
39:16.2
nung panahon na yun
39:17.4
because of the way
39:19.1
I delivered my questions
39:20.4
medyo sarcastic daw.
39:26.6
bakit daw ako sarcastic
39:28.2
magbato ng tanong
39:29.1
nung nasa ANC ako.
39:30.9
Eh, ganun po talaga tayo.
39:33.2
Nag-message din po
39:38.2
nagkitaro kami sa flight
39:39.3
kahapon from Sydney
39:43.0
hindi siya nangalabit.
39:45.4
I wanted to say congratulations
39:46.6
for what you have been doing
39:47.6
but unfortunately
39:48.3
I didn't get the chance
39:50.2
I do respect your privacy
39:51.4
with your beautiful wife
39:52.4
and adorable son.
39:53.8
Just to let you know
39:54.6
that I really admire
39:55.4
your insightful messages,
39:56.8
brave commentaries,
39:57.7
and patriotic content.
40:01.0
nakakataba po ng puso.
40:02.1
Maraming maraming salamat po
40:08.3
Trollbuster shirt, ha?
40:11.0
sa ating official
40:12.3
And Lazada stores.
40:14.4
Maraming maraming salamat po.
40:16.7
Mag-i-impake pa kami
40:18.5
Magbabalit-balit pa
40:19.4
dahil sa dami ng mga
40:21.1
Maraming salamat po sa inyo.
40:23.0
At to, si Raquel Pangilina
40:26.8
Mi-meet and greet po ba
40:27.8
kayo dito sa Singapore?
40:29.1
Pagpunta nyo next week,
40:30.7
para naman ma-meet ko kayo
40:31.9
at iba pa nating mga
40:34.5
Hindi po ako sure, eh.
40:35.3
Pero baka magkasalubong tayo dyan.
40:36.7
Pakalat-kalat lang naman po
40:37.8
ako dyan next week.
40:43.9
sabi ni Joe Hank,
40:45.5
would you please invite
40:46.3
Robin Padilla and roast him?
40:48.2
Grabe naman kayo.
40:49.2
Ba't naman lilit yunin?
40:51.0
Actually, in-invite ko na
40:54.2
na-dribble yata ako
40:56.0
sa aking invitation, eh.
40:57.1
Hindi nakarating sa kanya.
41:09.9
Mga taga sa Riyaya Quezon.
41:14.1
Binabati po natin kayo.
41:15.9
Ay, mga taga sa Riyaya Quezon.
41:17.5
Maraming maraming salamat po
41:19.4
tsaka sa pakikinig.
41:22.3
Si Raul Villanada.
41:23.8
Paano po kami makakabili?
41:27.2
Hindi ko na naasikaso ngayon
41:28.3
pero meron na pong website.
41:31.3
Masyado lang pong busy.
41:32.8
Ang dami nating tanggap na labada.
41:35.1
Figurative yun, eh.
41:37.5
Pero maraming din po ako
41:39.6
Nung nasa Sydney po ako,
41:42.7
dali maglaba ron, eh.
41:44.9
Saksak mo lang doon
41:45.6
sa washing machine.
41:47.1
Lagay mo sa dryer.
41:48.9
Meron kang ginagawa.
41:50.1
nagpoprograma ako last week.
41:52.5
Naglalaba ako nun, eh.
41:54.2
Pagkatapos ng programa,
41:55.8
tuyo na yung damit.
42:04.5
and sigaw-sigaw naman
42:05.8
sa lahat ng nanonood
42:06.6
ng Team Live at Team Replay.
42:08.0
Salamat, salamat.
42:09.2
Maraming salamat din po.
42:14.8
Troll Buster shirt.
42:17.5
Baka mas bagay sa kanya
42:18.8
yung Troll Busted.
42:19.9
Hanap tayo ng gano'n, no?
42:24.3
Were you an editor
42:24.9
of the Varsitarian?
42:26.6
1998 hanggang 2000.
42:28.9
Nakadalawang termino
42:31.1
nung college po tayo
42:33.9
Lagi-editor po tayo.
42:38.0
Marami pa tayong gagawin.
42:39.4
Shout out sa Milan
42:42.0
Maraming salamat po
42:48.4
Mag-upload po tayo dyan
42:51.3
maraming salamat din po
42:56.5
Masarap din panoorin.
42:59.7
Basta meron po tayong
43:00.6
mahigpit na bilin
43:01.8
lang sa kanya, no?
43:02.6
Dahil meron po mga
43:04.1
Panagtatanggal siya
43:05.4
So talagang mahigpit po
43:06.8
yung patakaran natin
43:08.4
yung ating panahuhin,
43:10.1
bawal po magtanggal
43:23.1
Maraming salamat po
43:24.3
Kita-kita po tayo.
43:26.2
Hindi ko masagot lahat ngayon.
43:29.6
Maraming salamat po.
43:34.8
Magandang gabi po
43:35.9
Ako po si Christian Esguera.
43:37.0
And have a blessed weekend.
43:39.9
Restful and blessed weekend
