02:04.6
Well, nag-flash po ng placard sa kalagitnaan ng dalumpati ni BBM at sinabi,
02:12.2
Stop the human rights abuses.
02:14.6
Nadidinig ko pa rin ng mga comment ng maraming Pilipino online, sinasabi,
02:18.7
Kabastusan yung ginawa sa Pangulo, di ba?
02:21.3
Pero let's look at the deeper issues, okay?
02:23.6
That's why I decided to invite Mr. Calay Conde.
02:28.9
Siya po ang Philippine Researcher ng Human Rights Watch at isa rin pong veteranong periodista
02:34.9
na nakatutok po ngayon sa issues ng human rights.
02:37.9
So let's welcome Mr. Calay Conde to our podcast tonight.
02:43.4
Magandang gabi, Caloy.
02:45.0
Ay, magandang gabi, Christian.
02:46.4
At magandang gabi sa lahat ng mga Sankaterbang fans mo.
02:49.5
Happy to be here.
02:50.7
Grabe naman yung Sankaterbang, no?
02:53.6
Pag-uusapan natin yung mga fans ni mahal na Pangulong Ferdinand Bombong Marcos Jr.
02:58.1
na mukhang na-offend doon sa ginawa sa kanya ng isang senador, no?
03:03.1
Unang-unang, let's put this in perspective, no?
03:05.5
Kabastusan ba yung ginawa sa Pangulong Pilipinas doon sa parliament?
03:09.5
Well, depende yan kung saan ka nanggagaling, eh.
03:13.2
Siyempre, yung...
03:14.5
Kasi sa Canberra, kasi sa Australia, merong iba-ibang partido yan, eh.
03:18.9
May mga conservative, may mga label, may mga gano'n.
03:22.0
Pero meron yung mga partido na tinatawag na Greens.
03:24.1
Ito yung mga environmentalists, mga activists,
03:28.1
ng parlamentary, ng parliament ng Australia.
03:32.7
At isa na dito si Miss Janet Rice.
03:35.8
At kung titingnan mo, talagang masasabi mo siguro
03:41.6
kung paborito mo o kung idol mo si Mr. Marcos,
03:47.4
Kaya lang, siyempre, hindi mo dapat isang tabi yung mga issues na
03:53.5
sinabi niya just because hindi mo nagustuhan yung paraan niya.
03:58.1
Pag-usapan natin.
03:59.1
Yung pinakasustansya.
04:01.3
Actually, pinakamilalaman noong placard ni Senator Janet Rice.
04:05.3
Sabi niya, stop the human rights abuses.
04:07.3
May mga iba kasi, akala, nagkamali yata yung senadora
04:11.3
dahil dapat daw ang tinutukoy niya si President Duterte.
04:16.1
So, kaya kita in-invite kasi kayo talaga nakatutok dyan sa mga datos
04:20.1
sa human rights situation dito sa Pilipinas.
04:22.9
So, is that a fair criticism na sa panahon ni President Marcos,
04:28.1
tuloy pa rin yung iba't-ibang klase o forma ng paglabag sa karapatang pantaong?
04:33.9
Oh, definitely, Christian.
04:35.2
I think it is misleading or even an outright falsehood
04:40.6
na wala nang human rights abuses na nangyayari sa Pilipinas ngayon.
04:44.9
Kasi nga, ang tendency ng marami,
04:47.4
yung panahon ni Duterte na libo-libo na matay sa drug war,
04:52.1
Actually, hindi pa.
04:53.7
May marami tayong pwedeng isa-isahin ng mga issue ng paglabag
04:57.9
sa karapatang pantaong dito sa Pilipinas
04:59.6
na tuloy-tuloy pa rin sa panunungkulan ni Mr. Marcos.
05:04.0
And in fact, mayroong iba na in fact lumalapa sa tingin namin.
05:08.5
So, fair yung point ni Senator Rice
05:12.2
at fair yung criticism against kay President Marcos.
05:15.6
In fact, kami mismo sa Human Rights Watch on the day itself
05:18.1
na nagsalita siya doon,
05:20.4
nagpalabas kami ng tinatawag namin na dispatch or statement,
05:23.3
yung aming Australia director ang nagpalabas dito,
05:25.7
na hinihimok niya,
05:27.9
ang mga membro ng Parliament ng Australia,
05:30.7
na huwag na lang basta lulukin kung ano yung sabihin ni Mr. Marcos
05:34.2
tungkol sa human rights.
05:36.7
At syempre, nagagala kami,
05:38.6
nabinigyang buhay or ni-raise ni Senator Rice itong issue na ito
05:43.5
kasi mahalaga ito.
05:45.0
Kasi Christian, alam mo, napapansin mo,
05:46.8
meron kasing tumatakbo ngayon na tendency
05:51.0
among people na dahil nga wala na si Duterte,
05:54.9
eh okay na, okay na at lahat.
05:56.6
At hindi po yung totoo.
05:58.4
Pag-usapan po natin, una lang,
06:00.1
may siguro yung iba,
06:01.0
pero kahit sa usapin na lang ng drug war, Christian,
06:04.2
minsan nag-parang siramplaka na rin ako
06:07.4
pag pinag-uusapan nito along with other colleagues,
06:10.3
including yourself, no,
06:11.8
na hindi pa, tuloy-tuloy pa rin ang patayan sa drug war.
06:17.2
In fact, ngayon, meron ng mahigit limang daan ang patay sa drug war
06:22.6
under Marcos, ito yung monitoring ng University of the Philippines.
06:26.6
Sa Third World Study Center, yung DAHASPH.
06:29.6
Tuloy-tuloy pa rin.
06:30.9
Ang nasa ano nito, ang pinaka-basic na rason dito is because
06:35.5
si Mr. Marcos, hindi naman niya tinigil ang drug war officially.
06:39.8
Wala siyang ginawa, hakbang,
06:42.2
para tanggalin yung mga order ni Presidente Duterte sa PNP
06:46.9
at sa kung kanino pa tungkol sa drug war.
06:49.9
In effect pa rin yung mga yan.
06:51.1
At ito ay nag-o-operationalize pa rin sa tuloy-tuloy na drug war.
06:56.6
I-contextualize pa natin yan.
06:58.2
So, kahit sinabi ni BBM before na mag-focus siya rin sa paghuli sa mga big fish
07:07.5
Tapos, supposedly, mas magiging centered sa perspective na
07:12.4
it's a public health issue.
07:17.7
Instead of purely law enforcement.
07:20.0
Hindi ba nasunod dyan in actual implementation?
07:24.2
Well, that's the thing.
07:25.2
Kung pakikinig mo, maganda naman talaga.
07:27.9
We support the idea na rehabilitation ang focus.
07:31.3
Even admitting na hindi ito a crime issue but a public health issue
07:36.7
was a big leap from the policy before.
07:40.0
The problem is that we're still not seeing
07:42.3
kung ano yung any significant achievement
07:46.1
ng sinasabi niyang shift na ito.
07:48.1
Kasi mayroon kaming mga kinakausap namin,
07:51.0
mga civil society groups, mga tinatawag na harm reduction groups,
07:54.0
ay kwestyonable pa rin yung mga rehabilitation effort
07:57.1
na in-implement ng gobyerno.
08:00.9
So, the jury is still out on that one.
08:03.7
Now, we're not saying na hindi ginagawa ng gobyerno
08:06.0
itong mga ganitong bagay.
08:08.4
Ginagawa naman, mukhang may hakbang naman silang ginagawa.
08:11.3
Hindi lang enough para masabi na ito na yung
08:14.4
it's a complete break from what was happening in the past.
08:17.9
But on the other hand,
08:19.8
well, quite aside from that,
08:22.1
tuloy-tuloy pa rin yung violence.
08:24.0
Half of the killings na monitor ng UP
08:26.8
ay perpetrated by law enforcers.
08:30.8
Half of them by unidentified people.
08:34.3
Pero may relation sa drug.
08:37.3
So, we're not saying na totally
08:39.2
ang gobyernong ito ay
08:40.7
hindi ginagawa yung,
08:44.1
hindi nilalagyan ng laman yung mga rhetoric niya
08:46.4
about rehab, about...
08:48.1
Pero kulang pa rin eh.
08:49.4
Kasi tuloy-tuloy pa rin yung patayan.
08:51.0
Yung mga controversial na memo ng PNP,
08:54.0
regarding Tokhang,
08:55.6
hindi pa ba siya nare-rescind?
08:57.3
Well, as far as we know, hindi pa rin.
08:59.1
Andiyan pa rin yan.
09:00.7
And in fact, even the,
09:05.6
the PIDEA, still, you know,
09:07.5
naglalabas din sila lagi ng mga report
09:09.1
about the progress ng kanilang mga raids.
09:11.9
At tuloy-tuloy pa rin yung
09:16.1
And just on that point,
09:18.9
supply reduction,
09:20.8
magugulat ka sa mga press release ng PIDEA
09:24.0
billion-billion pa rin yung
09:25.4
nahuhuli nilang mga,
09:27.8
nakakamkam nilang mga drugs,
09:30.2
nasasamsam nilang mga illegal drugs
09:32.3
on a regular basis.
09:33.9
So, looks like yung supply,
09:35.9
eh, hindi rin na-address ng mas,
09:41.9
Yung binabanggit mo na datos,
09:44.2
sa dahas.ph na tama ba?
09:47.4
Third World Studies.
09:51.2
sa ilalim ng rehimeng,
09:54.0
ng Bombo Marcos Jr. so far.
09:57.8
lahat yan ng laban?
09:58.8
Based on their classification?
10:03.3
Kasi kalahati nga lang,
10:06.9
ay police lang yung
10:22.6
mga anti-drug raid
10:25.4
pero marami din doon
10:29.1
na hindi natin alam
10:31.1
we have reason to believe
10:33.6
galing din sa gobyerno.
10:35.5
hindi siya officially,
10:37.4
sinasabing nanlaban.
10:39.8
hindi na nag-re-release
10:42.7
nung panahon ni Duterte,
10:45.7
yan silang nanlabas
10:48.2
this number of people
10:49.4
because nanlaban.
10:50.8
So, nasa analisis na lang
10:53.5
kung ano yung mga cases
10:56.8
I, I think a more important
11:00.8
a ma- a great majority
11:02.0
of these killings
11:03.1
remain uninvestigated.
11:08.6
kung ano ang ginagawa
11:09.6
ng Department of Justice,
11:11.3
whether it's investigating
11:14.7
in a way that's different
11:16.5
from the lack of investigation
11:19.2
during the time of Duterte.
11:22.4
nakapabahala din yun
11:23.6
kasi majority of these cases
11:25.0
are uninvestigated.
11:29.2
hindi lang gusto kong puntahan,
11:30.8
Isa yun sa mga pinakamahirap
11:31.9
ipaliwanag sa mga tao,
11:33.3
yung prinsipyo ng due process
11:35.1
at saka yung responsibility
11:38.3
hindi lang i-prevent
11:39.6
o gumawa ng isang environment
11:45.3
kung nangyari yung krimen
11:46.8
responsibility ng Estado
11:48.4
na papanagutin yung may sala.
11:50.8
isa yun sa mga punto
11:51.6
na dapat natin pinag-uusapan,
11:54.0
just to put things in perspective,
11:55.4
doon sa 500 na binabanggit mo
11:58.8
police ang nakapatay,
12:00.7
mukha bang vigilante-style killings
12:02.3
or halo-halo na yun?
12:05.0
mainly parang vigilante-style
12:06.5
killing na tawag yun,
12:07.6
although we don't,
12:08.6
we don't officially call it that,
12:10.9
pero halo-halo na yun.
12:15.4
mga killings diyan
12:22.1
hindi naman natin
12:23.0
binabaliwala yung possibility na yan,
12:26.5
half of the killings
12:27.7
are perpetrated by,
12:35.3
kaya ako rin gusto malaman
12:36.4
kung lahat ba yun ng laban,
12:39.6
under President Duterte,
12:42.6
Yung official figures nila,
12:44.4
until they stopped counting,
12:45.6
I think nasa at least 6,200
12:48.6
lahat daw yun ng laban.
12:50.5
it boggles the mind na,
12:51.9
lahat yan ng laban.
12:53.0
ano yung resulta ng investigasyon?
12:55.6
wala pa rin linaw
12:56.6
kung iniimbestigahan ba lahat yan.
12:59.7
in fairness din naman,
13:00.7
kung ikaw yung law enforcer,
13:03.2
pag nagkaroon ka ng isang
13:04.3
law enforcement na
13:05.1
legitimate operation,
13:06.9
talagang pwede may mapatay dyan.
13:10.0
yun ang gusto kong,
13:11.1
gusto ko sa atin i-contextualize,
13:12.8
ilan ba rin dito sa 500
13:14.5
or doon sa kalahati ng lumandaan,
13:16.4
yung baka naman legit police operations
13:18.4
tapos talagang ng laban,
13:20.0
hindi yung shortcut.
13:21.9
Kasi tricky part, Christian.
13:23.8
in the absence of any,
13:26.5
we wouldn't know.
13:30.6
questionable pa rin,
13:31.9
yung kooperasyon ng PNP
13:33.7
doon sa mga accountability monitors.
13:37.5
they're not cooperating with the CHR
13:39.1
in investigations.
13:40.4
They're not being forthcoming
13:42.0
with information about
13:44.0
the status of investigations.
13:46.7
we're not very clear
13:48.0
kung ilan na ba talaga yung natapos ng DOJ
13:50.8
naimbestigahan doon sa mga cases
13:52.3
ng panahon pa ni Duterte.
13:55.5
at the start of the Marcos administration
13:59.6
hindi naman nila sinabing,
14:00.4
hindi nila papansinin
14:01.8
yung mga namatay under Duterte,
14:03.5
pero mas magtututok sila
14:05.3
sa mga doon sa mga nangyari
14:11.1
clear kung ano na yung,
14:14.4
and that's something na lagi nating
14:16.9
binabalik-balikan.
14:19.4
there's this whole idea nga na
14:22.1
mas maigi na nga ngayon ang
14:25.7
kung babalikan mo yung datos
14:28.9
yung unang report nila
14:34.1
in their own analysis of the data
14:37.5
mas marami ang namatay
14:39.4
in the first year of Mr. Marcos
14:41.6
kaysa last year under Duterte.
14:44.9
you can make of that
14:45.7
whatever you want,
14:48.3
it's, it's very telling.
14:50.3
So, ah, kasi nga,
14:51.7
again, balik tayo dun sa point,
14:53.1
the drug war has not been rescinded.
14:55.0
It's still an official state policy
15:00.2
Kung ganun yung ano,
15:02.0
pag-uusapan natin isa rin sa mga,
15:05.5
matinding issues nung
15:07.6
kaugnay sa drug war nung
15:09.3
6 na taon under Duterte,
15:11.2
yung quota system daw sa mga polis,
15:18.6
that's still in existence?
15:25.4
and we get the sense
15:31.2
that's no longer the case.
15:36.4
a part of me wants to,
15:38.2
to take their word for it.
15:40.7
the police now is
15:49.0
during his regime.
15:51.6
Ano pa naalala mo dati,
15:53.3
lagi sinasabi niya,
15:54.2
huwag niya mag-alala
15:56.9
akong bahala sa inyo.
16:01.6
wala na yung ganun
16:03.4
na nakakapressure din naman
16:07.2
we'd like to think
16:09.5
nag-ease yung pressure nila
16:12.8
and I hope na ganun nga
16:15.2
siguro that can be,
16:17.8
as an improvement,
16:19.7
Dahil hindi na direkta
16:20.6
nang gagaling sa Pangulo
16:22.3
pagkapatayin niya yan,
16:24.6
patahan natin yung,
16:25.4
yung accountability.
16:27.2
wala pa talaga yung
16:30.2
hold those police officers
16:32.8
dun sa mga ginawang
16:33.7
walang habas na pagpatay
16:35.2
dun sa mga di umano
16:37.1
pinatay lang talaga?
16:38.8
I think it would be,
16:40.2
I think it would be unfair
16:46.4
wala talagang ginawa,
16:47.7
Meron namang mga hakbang
16:52.0
I'd like to think
16:54.4
internal affairs office
16:57.2
nagkatrabaho din naman,
17:01.2
some would even say na
17:03.9
leadership changes
17:06.4
created an atmosphere
17:12.1
wala na yung fear
17:15.2
nung panahon ni Duterte,
17:18.0
on the other hand,
17:25.8
it hasn't changed the fact
17:29.6
as an institution
17:34.2
dysfunctional institution
17:37.9
You cannot expect
17:41.5
even with the existence
17:42.5
of the Internal Affairs
17:47.3
most of the perpetrators
17:54.9
the organization.
17:58.3
medyo pipilitin mong
18:06.0
pero hindi natin,
18:06.7
hindi natin nakikita
18:11.9
kalau yung isang issue,
18:13.7
nung panahon ni Duterte,
18:16.9
magsampan ng kaso
18:18.5
laban doon sa mga
18:21.1
sa kapangyarihan,
18:21.9
ito nga rin sa kapulisan,
18:27.7
yung iba tinatakot pa,
18:30.7
death certificate
18:33.2
na tinamaan ng bala.
18:34.4
May mga documented cases
18:37.9
yung ganun bang kultura,
18:40.4
nabawasan ba yun?
18:44.0
mas hindi na mahi,
18:45.8
para sa isang biktima
18:47.2
na lumapit sa polis
18:51.5
I'm not so sure about that,
18:53.0
kung ganyan ba talaga
18:54.6
based on my own experience
18:58.9
a few months ago,
19:03.7
tawag namin doon,
19:04.8
sa mga communities,
19:10.7
Marami ang nag-back out
19:11.8
ng mga interviews
19:13.2
kasi takot pa rin sila
19:17.4
merong napabalita
19:21.1
credible human rights
19:24.8
may lumalapit sa mga
19:26.5
sa pamilya ng mga
19:28.5
drug war noong panahon
19:31.6
nangyari lang ngayon,
19:32.6
na pinapasign sila
19:34.3
na huwag na silang
19:36.4
na huwag na mag-sampa
19:43.4
hindi siya nagko-contribute
19:51.8
babalikan ko yung point
19:56.1
and organizationally,
19:57.0
may problema sila
19:57.8
sa accountability
20:00.4
The least the PNP
20:15.3
ng mga accountability
20:21.3
cases na may kinalaman
20:23.3
At the very least,
20:25.3
we're talking about,
20:28.3
They're saying na,
20:30.3
may nako-cooperate
20:32.3
has been complaining
20:33.3
na walas ng cooperation
20:33.4
with the independent
20:34.4
government institution
20:40.4
wala kang halos nakikitang
20:46.4
kita mo yung gusto
20:47.4
kung ma-ma-point out
20:49.4
na at least man lang
20:54.4
na i-engage talaga
20:59.4
we're not saying na
21:00.4
pag ginawa nila yun,
21:02.4
okay nang okay nat lahat.
21:03.3
It's a due process
21:05.3
Meron pa rin namang
21:15.3
yung ganung mga bagay.
21:16.3
So, wala na nga yung takot
21:22.3
among the police.
21:24.3
yung legacy issues
21:27.3
competent investigation,
21:37.3
mali-mali yung mga entry sa mga
21:38.3
death certificates,
21:39.3
mali-mali yung mga
21:40.3
sinasabi ng police
21:41.3
tungkol sa kung ano ba talaga
21:43.3
o anong nangyari.
21:47.3
these are competenc
21:49.3
competency issues
21:50.3
na hanggang ngayon ay
21:52.3
pilong problema pa rin natin
21:57.3
napakaraming dapat ilinis-
21:58.3
linisin o kailangan linisin.
22:01.3
in terms of accountability, dahil
22:03.1
dalawang taon pa lang yung
22:04.5
administration ni Marcos.
22:08.1
Although, it can also
22:09.4
be seen in a different way.
22:12.0
In two years, marami kang pwedeng gawin.
22:15.7
In two years, marami kang pwedeng
22:17.5
gawin kung gusto mo talagang gawin. I mean, if you're
22:19.3
the president, I mean, if you really believe
22:21.4
in these issues, marami kang pwedeng
22:23.3
gawin. I think a bottom line
22:25.3
issue for me here is, are these
22:27.1
principal positions ng gobyernong ito
22:29.6
ang human rights?
22:31.3
Kasi kung ang protecting human rights,
22:33.6
upholding human rights, and making sure accountability
22:35.4
happens is a principled
22:37.5
position, mas madaling gawin yun.
22:39.5
Mas madaling mongyari yun. Kasi kung
22:41.6
ang ginagawa mo lang ito dahil
22:43.1
ang ingi-ingay ng mga NGO, ang ingay
22:45.4
na nakukulitan na sila sa mga embassies
22:47.8
na laging binibiling up to the issue nito,
22:49.6
hindi principled position yun. Para ka na lang,
22:51.9
okay, sige, patahimikan natin sila gawin natin
22:55.6
on the other hand, itong mga
23:01.3
sa mga issues na ganito na
23:03.4
ng accountability,
23:05.7
I think this should
23:07.6
contribute to the government,
23:09.9
to the government's efforts
23:11.3
to really institutionalize
23:16.9
hindi katulad dati.
23:20.5
I mean, when we say
23:21.2
institutionalize, what do I
23:23.2
mean by this? One,
23:25.4
yung making sure the Internal Affairs
23:27.6
Office is actually working.
23:30.0
Making sure that the PNP
23:31.1
human rights office is actually working.
23:31.3
The Human Rights Affairs Office is actually also
23:33.1
working to look into cases
23:35.9
serious abuses by police officers.
23:39.1
Hindi lang yung mga nireklamo ng mga
23:43.1
na nangamit daw yung pulis
23:45.1
silang hasban or what, you know?
23:47.4
May mga ganong cases kasi. I mean,
23:49.2
hindi man natin malamalit yun, pero
23:50.5
ganon. Ang pangatlo,
23:55.9
study the, maging proactive
23:59.1
sila as far as the drug war is concerned.
24:01.3
Kung nakikita nila na i-incriminate
24:03.4
yung mga tao nila because of the policy,
24:05.9
I mean, you should take a position na,
24:07.1
sandali, let's step back a little bit
24:09.1
and see whether this is still good for us.
24:12.2
Alam mo yun? And of course,
24:13.3
weeding out corruption, we are
24:15.0
making sure that police are competent.
24:17.5
I mean, hindi nawawalan ng resources
24:19.4
ang PNP pagdating sa, for instance,
24:23.2
investigation skills.
24:25.2
Even weapons and firearms,
24:27.6
mayroon naman nagdo-donate sa kanila.
24:29.1
Foreign countries have been,
24:31.3
donating resources, money
24:33.3
to improve the PNP's way
24:35.4
of investigating. Pero, hindi na
24:37.1
nakikita on the ground yung result
24:41.3
Puntahan naman natin yung ICC issue.
24:43.3
Isa rin ito sa mga binanggit ni
24:44.7
Senator Janet Rice, no?
24:46.9
Yung ICC. So far kasi,
24:50.0
may position si President Marcos,
24:53.7
issue of sovereignty
24:54.9
and jurisdiction, yung pagpapapasok sa
24:57.3
ICC. Pero syempre, parang
24:59.2
mayroong mixed signals. Kaya kami yung
25:01.1
kabado itong Duterte, tsaka yung
25:03.0
kanyang mga aliporis and sycophants, no?
25:06.0
Kaya nga sa ambasa
25:07.2
ng iba, kaya sobrang
25:09.0
takot na yung Duterte, o nagwawala, o
25:10.9
pabago-bago yung posisyon, dahil baka
25:13.0
raw papasok na yung mga taga-ICC
25:15.3
kung hindi pa man dumating noong
25:16.8
Desembre. Kung sakaling magkaroon
25:19.3
ng ano, pagbabago sa official
25:20.9
position ng Marcos administration, at mag-cooperate
25:23.4
nga officially sa ICC,
25:25.6
how big a deal is this in terms
25:27.3
of belying allegations
25:29.0
that it's doing nothing?
25:31.1
When it comes to promoting human rights?
25:33.9
Well, it's going to be a big deal,
25:35.2
to be honest. You know, it's something
25:37.4
pag nag-decide ang Marcos administration
25:41.4
that they're going to cooperate, and they're going to
25:43.4
help the ICC do its mandate,
25:45.9
then, and that is going to be a
25:47.4
game-changer, I think. And that will have an
25:49.2
impact on how the, on
25:50.8
local politics, on the
25:53.2
politics of this country
25:54.5
from here on out, I think.
25:59.3
that going to happen?
26:01.1
We're not sure. It all
26:03.1
depends, I mean, the analysis
26:04.9
by many, and, you know, to some degree,
26:09.2
I kind of, I subscribe
26:11.0
to this analysis, is that
26:12.5
the ICC issue hinges
26:14.4
on the political climate.
26:18.1
As long as Duterte
26:19.2
and the Marcoses are, you know,
26:21.0
are still trying to be civil toward each other,
26:25.2
a lesser chance for
26:27.1
the government to welcome the ICC
26:28.9
or to cooperate with the ICC.
26:35.2
when it becomes open season na,
26:37.3
talagang lantaran na yung
26:38.7
confrontation between the two sides,
26:41.6
eh, you know, the ICC
26:43.6
issue becomes one of those
26:45.4
political weapons that I'm sure
26:47.2
the administration
26:50.5
very, very willing to use
26:53.4
against the Dutertes.
26:55.0
And that would be very, very unfortunate, kung ganoon
26:57.3
lang naman kasi ang
26:58.5
basehan nila for cooperating with the ICC,
27:01.1
because they're now, they're now no longer
27:03.1
seeing eye to eye with the Duterte.
27:04.8
That's where, that's where my position really
27:07.0
earlier on principled
27:13.2
kung principled yung position ni
27:15.0
Mr. Marcos on the ICC and on
27:17.0
accountability, regardless
27:18.9
of the political cost,
27:21.2
regardless of the political fallout,
27:22.9
gagawin niya yun. But then again, who are we kidding,
27:25.2
right? This is the Philippines, where everything
27:27.2
is, lahat dito pwede
27:29.1
mong gawing political currency.
27:31.1
So, you know, that's my
27:32.9
ano doon, I think.
27:34.8
Inanahan mo, inanahan mo ako, Kalo, eh.
27:37.7
Bago mo ipaliwanag yung
27:39.0
principled stance na yan.
27:40.9
Ako paulit-ulit kong binabanggit dito yun, eh.
27:43.3
Kung papasukin man ni
27:44.6
Bangbong Marcos yung ICC,
27:46.8
o kung mag-cooperate man yung kanya
27:48.3
administration, I don't think he would be doing
27:50.8
that as a matter of principle
27:54.7
belief in the promotion of human rights
27:56.9
and holding those who abused
27:58.9
their power during the previous
28:01.0
administration accountable.
28:03.6
getting back at the political opponent.
28:08.6
looking at the bright side, kung sakaling yun man namangyari,
28:11.4
kahit hindi yun ang motibo,
28:13.3
kumbaga, na-achieve
28:14.8
naman yung goal ng mga
28:16.6
human rights defenders and advocates.
28:18.6
Kailangan pa-consolidate roon.
28:20.2
We count our blessings, Christian, in a way.
28:24.2
we'd be happy, we'd certainly be thrilled
28:28.5
of everything, Mr. Marcos,
28:30.7
decides to cooperate with the ICC because that's what
28:32.6
we've been asking him to do.
28:35.0
And if he decides to do that,
28:36.9
then, you know, we would be
28:38.6
you know, we would be
28:40.4
singing praises, obviously,
28:43.6
but watching it very, very
28:44.9
closely kung talagang totoo yung
28:46.5
mangyayari. Excuse me.
28:52.4
from the outside, madaling sabihin kasi na
28:54.7
eh, kung mayroon lang political will to si Mr. Marcos,
28:57.2
ang dali-dali na lang sana
28:58.2
matapos na itong mga patay,
29:02.6
karapatan pang tao na ito. But, you know,
29:04.9
again, who are we kidding, right?
29:06.5
Meron tayong mga andito eh. Meron tayong
29:08.1
kailangan i-consider about
29:09.9
the nature of Philippine politics. This is a very,
29:12.8
very transactional
29:13.8
political culture that we have.
29:17.2
And anything can be made
29:18.8
into a political currency, an election
29:25.4
kung maambunan man tayo
29:26.7
nung epekto, nung away-away
29:28.5
ng magkabilang panig, eh, well, tanggapin na.
29:30.7
Hindi naman yan ang
29:35.0
primary goal. Pero, nandiyan eh.
29:38.3
Count your blessings. Ito, sa panghuli,
29:41.1
may comment dito, Marcos
29:42.7
abused his powers
29:45.1
too. I don't know kung tinutukoy
29:48.4
o yung ama. Pero siguro, I'd like to go on the issue
29:52.8
Ando, syempre, iba naman ang ama
29:54.6
sa anak kung gugustuhin mo.
29:56.9
Ang point ko, when it comes to credibility
29:58.9
issues, mayroon ba credibility?
30:00.7
Ito naman yung Marcos' name
30:02.2
to promote and protect human rights
30:05.9
long history of abuses
30:08.3
coming from his father's regime.
30:11.1
At hindi naman siya baby
30:12.2
noong nangyari yung mga yun. Hindi siya bata.
30:15.8
Well, ako tingin ko dyan,
30:17.2
it's not so much na
30:18.4
wala o meron siyang credibility because
30:20.8
you know, mga gut feel ng mga tao
30:23.1
ngayon, given the history of the Marcoses,
30:25.1
wala naman talagang credibility ang mga yan.
30:27.3
Just because they won the presidency
30:28.7
again doesn't mean they're willing
30:30.7
to discard all of the
30:32.1
sordidness that they did during the
30:34.7
dictatorship of the father.
30:40.0
may kinalaman din naman
30:42.5
to some degree si Mr. Marcos.
30:44.8
Hindi naman siya bata ng panahon ng ditaduryo.
30:47.1
Adult na siya nun, if I remember
30:54.8
tingin ang ano namin dyan is that
31:04.1
milestone sa kanya.
31:06.4
And he can make of it whatever he wants.
31:09.0
He can make the presidency
31:10.8
continue the abuses
31:13.0
of his father that were committed
31:14.8
during his father's time, or
31:16.7
he can continue the impunity, or
31:18.7
you know, he has a choice
31:24.7
different, the good
31:28.8
Hindi natin aalisin sa kanya yun.
31:30.7
Because the fact is, he's president.
31:32.7
He is in a position where he can do
31:34.4
whatever he wants. And we don't
31:36.8
want him to go start
31:38.0
going after activists and
31:40.6
killing people or threatening
31:42.8
people just because they criticize him,
31:44.9
criticize the administration.
31:46.7
No, we don't want him to do that.
31:48.9
Pero, because he's the president,
31:52.7
na maging santo siya,
31:55.9
mag-grow na rin sa kanya yung responsibility
31:58.3
ng office. I mean, he seems
32:00.6
to be like an intelligent
32:03.9
and he seems to, you know,
32:06.8
often, he seems to speak
32:08.5
in a measured tone
32:12.7
which is good, and I hope
32:18.0
not so much baguhin yung image ng mga
32:20.7
Marcoses, but to do what's right.
32:22.7
Kasi, ang pinaka-konteksta
32:24.6
natin dito, Christian, balik ako doon
32:26.5
actually sa tanong mo kanina na maraming masasabi na
32:28.5
two years pa lang naman. Pero,
32:32.9
baka totoo yung issue na gano'n, na baka
32:34.5
masyado pang maigsi yung panahon para
32:36.7
i-judge natin si Mr. Marcos. Pero,
32:39.2
you have to take that, you have to view
32:40.9
that from the perspective, from the fact,
32:43.1
from the reality,
32:44.7
that yung predecessor niya na regime
32:47.0
did so much damage,
32:49.3
more than any president in our
32:50.9
history. The human rights catastrophe
32:53.0
in this country under the 30 was
32:56.9
you would expect the next president
32:58.7
to take it really,
33:00.6
really seriously. Now,
33:02.8
kung babanjeng-banjeng ganyan at sasabihin mo
33:04.6
two years pa lang naman, baka sa three years na,
33:06.5
pwede na, eh, that reflects on your
33:08.6
character as well. And again, that reflects on
33:10.7
how unprincipled your
33:12.6
position is on human rights.
33:16.5
Nagustuhan niyo ba
33:17.4
ang ganitong pagtalakay?
33:19.3
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Informador YouTube channel.
33:24.6
Ang Informador ay nilikha ng mga staff
33:26.7
ni Atty. Ricky Tumuturgo,
33:28.5
aka Insurecto, upang laloan,
33:30.6
halong lumawak ang inaabot ng pagpapalaganap
33:32.7
ng katotohanan at labanan
33:34.5
ang fake news at kasinungalingan.
34:00.6
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