01:35.6
Nai-invoke mo international law sa West Philippine Sea, tapos hindi mo i-invoke dito sa usapin ng impunity na issue ng ICC naman dito sa Kedigong.
01:46.2
So, mahirap siyang maganun.
01:48.1
Mga Europeans, walang either-or, diba? Yun yung framework. Europe is a community of principles, diba?
01:56.6
Values-based community.
01:57.7
Hindi lang siya interest. Binabalansin nila usually yan, pero bottom line ay hindi nila iiwanan yung mga ganun klaseng framework katulad sa human rights.
02:07.2
Very strong sila dyan. You can say a lot about Europe, about the EU, pero yan yung isang minimum na hindi nila bibitawan.
02:15.9
Kaya, yun yung...
02:18.1
Yung tingin ko, kung gusto talaga ma-rehabilitate fully ni BBM yung Marcos brand sa international, especially sa Europe, ay kinakilangan niyang tindigan yan.
02:32.1
Pero, in a way, hindi naman binabago ni BBM yung kanyang posisyon. Kine-question niya yung jurisdiction. Ang ini-invoke kasi niya, hindi na tayo membro, na gray area.
02:41.9
Pero, yung kanyang sariling Supreme Court ay nagsabi unanimously na may jurisdiction.
02:49.8
Yung hindi niya pwedeng kontrahin.
02:51.7
Sa ICC nga, nagbutuhan eh.
02:56.2
Doon pa nga may kaunting nuancing.
02:57.9
Pero sa ating Supreme Court, malinaw na meron jurisdiction yung ICC
03:01.9
dahil yung kaso ay sinimulan bago tayo umalis.
03:08.8
Pero, hindi naman nagbago ng posisyon si BBM.
03:11.2
Hindi niya binawi yung kanyang posisyon na hindi makakapasok ang ICC.
03:14.5
Ang sinasabi lang niya, jurisdiction.
03:18.1
kung yung isa rin nang madalas mo i-guess dito sa show mo,
03:24.5
ay walang pagbabago.
03:26.6
Yung isang senador na paborito mo rin,
03:29.0
na mukhang laging kausap ng ICC,
03:32.6
si Senator Trillanes,
03:34.4
eh, sasabihin niya,
03:35.5
eh, wala. Walang pagbabago.
03:37.9
Yan ay public posturing.
03:40.0
Yan ay public posturing.
03:41.7
Pero yung pagpasok ng ICC para sa kanya,
03:45.5
Kaya, tingnan natin.
03:48.1
Kung ano yung mangyayari.
03:49.4
Tsaka, si Sara pa nasa Malacanang.
03:51.6
You don't wanna say something stupid.
03:53.0
You know what I'm saying?
03:54.0
Kung gusto mo pa umuwi,
03:58.5
You wanna go off safely, right?
03:59.5
Pero ang matalan niya,
04:00.2
pag lumabas yung international warrant,
04:02.2
eh, dyan talagang magkakasubukan.
04:04.7
Dyan talagang magkakasubukan.
04:06.0
Pero kung gusto talagang bumango,
04:08.0
natingin ko, yung pa rin ang gusto ni BBM.
04:10.0
Gusto niyang bumango sa international community,
04:16.3
baguhin niya yung kanyang narrative.
04:18.9
Richard, may tatanong lang din ako sayo,
04:24.3
May gusto natin ako tanong sayo.
04:26.6
Kasi, yung impression na napupunta sa akin,
04:29.0
it's looking more and more like,
04:32.5
is becoming a con-
04:33.7
parang a consequential na president na,
04:36.4
parang he's leading the ano eh,
04:38.3
dito sa against sa China.
04:39.7
Parang he's one of,
04:41.8
mga presidents na
04:43.4
brave enough to stand up.
04:44.8
O, rallying point.
04:49.3
yung view sa kanya nung international na mga,
04:52.8
yung mga leaders,
04:54.6
parang nagiging more consequential siya na,
04:57.3
na leader ngayon sa mundo?
05:00.3
The answer is yes,
05:01.3
but not because of BBM.
05:03.6
I remember very well in some major summit,
05:07.4
actually it was first,
05:08.4
the inaugural Australia-Ausian summit in 2018.
05:11.0
I was talking to some people and they said,
05:13.7
perfect sana ang Philippines eh.
05:16.3
Perfect partner sana ang Philippines.
05:17.8
Especially yung ginawa,
05:18.6
I'm not saying this
05:19.4
dahil andyan si Ronald,
05:20.9
dahil sa ginawa ni Aquino,
05:22.6
dahil kayo yung shining democracy in the region,
05:24.9
fastest growing economy,
05:26.4
perfect sana kayo.
05:27.4
Kasi sa lahat ng ASEAN countries,
05:30.2
yung pinakamalapit yung shared values and traditions natin.
05:33.2
Hindi ka makahanap ng ibang ASEAN countries na
05:35.1
may liberal democracy.
05:36.6
sabog tayo in many level,
05:38.5
yung familiarity.
05:40.5
pero si Digong eh,
05:42.3
nagrabe naman yung government nyo,
05:45.2
a lot of this is pent up.
05:47.7
Yung mga hindi nila magawa nung pano ni Digong,
05:50.7
ang ganda ng tanong mo ulit, Marga,
05:52.5
ginagawa nila ngayon.
05:53.4
But having said that,
05:54.4
I wanna be also fair to BBM.
05:56.1
It's not like he's not doing what he's supposed to do
05:58.5
on the foreign policy front.
06:01.0
swerte siya na Philippines is in a strategic sweet spot,
06:04.4
na meron tayong ganyan na mga traditional ties.
06:07.2
But the guy is also ticking all the boxes.
06:09.1
I wanna be fair to the guy.
06:10.8
ang concern ko lang is baka he will overdo this.
06:15.1
all the way guns blazing.
06:16.3
Because one of the things I appreciate with BBM is,
06:18.5
no offense Ronald,
06:19.3
compared sa boss mo,
06:20.2
I think medyo mas diplomatic si BBM
06:23.1
in terms of dealing with China issues.
06:24.5
I think your boss,
06:25.4
God bless his soul,
06:26.5
sometimes he went a little bit like,
06:28.7
Because if you wanna go that far,
06:30.3
Make sure you have this strong military
06:31.8
and backup of other countries.
06:33.4
I think BBM has a better backup from the US
06:36.0
and a far stronger military.
06:37.3
I mean, ikaw Ronald, anong basa mo?
06:39.1
That's a very good question.
06:40.0
So, I'm trying to be fair here.
06:41.5
I think not all credit should go to Marcos.
06:44.9
But he has to also get some credit
06:46.5
because he's ticking the boxes.
06:47.8
Yung speeches niya ang ganda.
06:49.0
Parang halos ako,
06:50.5
Kung ako nagsulat,
06:51.3
yun din ang sasabihin ko eh.
06:52.3
Or kung ako yung presidente,
06:53.7
I'll say exactly things.
06:54.7
Strategic agency,
06:56.4
yung mga terms na ganito na ginagamit namin
06:58.1
sa think tank world.
07:00.3
Well, definitely.
07:03.9
actually, yung ibig mo sabihin
07:05.2
ay sobrang baba nung bar
07:07.2
nung six years ni Digo.
07:09.5
You cannot go wrong.
07:11.2
Pero at the same time,
07:17.2
na hindi lang dahil
07:18.3
masyadong mababa yung bar.
07:20.1
Meron din naman siyang ginawa.
07:21.8
It's scale up siya, as you say.
07:23.8
Scale up din siya.
07:26.4
kinakabahan na yung mga ASEAN leaders
07:28.1
katulad ni Anwar,
07:30.5
katulad ni Lee Hsien Loong.
07:33.5
Bilabatak siya pabalik na
07:35.6
kinakabahan din sila na
07:37.9
baka maapektuhan yung region.
07:41.9
Kaya, tingin ko, yun yung...
07:44.5
Yes, sobrang baba nung bar
07:46.5
kaya tayo ay nasa isang sweet spot.
07:49.2
Pero may ginagawa rin si BBM
07:51.2
para mag-scale up.
07:53.2
Partly, nakita naman niya
07:55.5
Tingin ko mahalaga yung...
07:57.0
yung state visit niya sa China
07:59.0
nung January 6, 2023.
08:02.0
Nakita niya, niloloko siya ng China.
08:04.1
Nirehash lang yung mga commitments
08:07.2
Kaya, kung halimbawa
08:10.0
seryoso yung China nabubuhos,
08:11.7
baka mag-quant siya, mag-balancing siya.
08:13.7
Kaya nakita niya...
08:14.7
Diniduterte siya.
08:15.7
Diniduterte siya ng China.
08:17.2
Nakita niya, inuulol siya.
08:19.7
Grabe ang mga ulo.
08:21.2
Diniduterte lang siya.
08:23.2
Tapos, nakikita naman niya yung...
08:26.7
Dahil inuulol siya, wala namang papasok.
08:28.7
So, nilipat na siya sa ibang...
08:31.7
sa ibang pwedeng magpasok.
08:34.7
Kahit sa ngayon, karamihan dyan ay MOU.
08:37.7
Kahit sa ngayon, karamihan dyan ay mga LOI.
08:41.7
Mas doon siya pupunta.
08:43.7
Pagkakataon siya dito sa mga rehash
08:45.7
na pang-iinsulto sa tingin niya.
08:47.7
Hindi lamang sa kanya, kundi sa bansa.
08:49.7
But Ronald, in fairness naman,
08:50.7
I think yung kinuha niya, for instance,
08:52.7
Lufthansa agreed to do an additional hangar
08:55.7
dun sa Bago Natan Airport.
08:56.7
I mean, this is a $150 million project.
08:59.7
And Germany and Koreans are all involved.
09:01.7
I don't think bola lang yan.
09:03.7
I mean, we know that, Ronald.
09:04.7
Hindi sila tulad na ibang bansa na...
09:06.7
They really want business.
09:10.7
Saka nagandahan sila sa Clark.
09:12.7
They see a future.
09:15.7
Very good point, Ronald.
09:17.7
itong sinasabi ni Secretary Pascual
09:20.7
na may $14 billion na pumasok na,
09:22.7
eh yung mga kinausap ko
09:24.7
ng mga finance experts,
09:26.7
ang talong nila, bakit walang detalye?
09:28.7
Ang sabi kasi ni Pascual, nandito na eh.
09:31.7
Pag sinabi ni Pascual na nandito na yan,
09:33.7
hindi na yan MOU, hindi na yan...
09:36.7
feeling mo gusto mo yung trabaho ni Pascual
09:38.7
parang siya pinabully.
09:40.7
Hindi, ang gusto kong trabaho, di.
09:41.7
Ang gusto kong trabaho, DSWD.
09:43.7
Hindi ka magkakamalira.
09:46.7
Pagpakasuhan tayo dyan.
09:48.7
You cannot go wrong doon sa DSWD.
09:53.7
Yung sinasabi na walang pumasok na $14 billion.
09:56.7
Pero bakit walang detalye?
09:58.7
Sinabi na niya yan 2-3 weeks ago eh.
10:00.7
Hanggang ngayon walang detalye.
10:02.7
So eventually, baka mapasama sila
10:06.7
kung wala naman pala yung $14 billion.
10:08.7
Tapos in-announce siya na.
10:10.7
Baka ipahamak nila yung Presidente.
10:12.7
Paano yung Presidente?
10:13.7
Sinasabi na rin yan eh.
10:14.7
Na may $14 billion.
10:15.7
Pero yung mga kinausap kong financial experts,
10:18.7
duda sila dahil walang detalye.
10:20.7
Medyo Duterte ang style.
10:23.7
Gentleman agreement.
10:25.7
Gentleman's agreement.
10:27.7
Alam mo ba itong kuhaan?
10:28.7
Alam mo ba itong $4-5 billion daw sa Germany?
10:35.7
Karamihan dyan ay...
10:37.7
Halos lahat dyan MOU at LOI.
10:41.7
Kaya don't count your apples.
10:46.7
Saka Big R, maraming problema ang Germany ngayon.
10:49.7
Maraming silang problema.
10:51.7
Kailangan silang...
10:52.7
But they're desperate to invest abroad para kumita.
10:55.7
Yung Bosch Company.
10:56.7
Because Germany's economy is in recession also.
10:59.7
Of course, recession.
11:00.7
So nag-number 3, biglang Germany.
11:01.7
Last point, Mark.
11:03.7
I want to ask you.
11:04.7
Honestly, from someone who's not...
11:08.7
specializing in foreign policy,
11:10.7
but someone who's following very closely politics and all,
11:13.7
hindi ba parang weird na Marcos Jr. is being...
11:17.7
ginaganan-ganan na siya?
11:19.7
They're going gaga over him?
11:20.7
Hindi ba ganan ang dating sa'yo?
11:22.7
Or you think they're just being practical, reasonable,
11:24.7
but behind the scenes maybe they're having the tough conversation.
11:27.7
They're just being polite about this.
11:29.7
Anong basa mo dyan?
11:31.7
Sino yung mga international na mga leaders and international press?
11:34.7
Western countries.
11:35.7
I'm not talking about China.
11:36.7
Western countries?
11:37.7
Democratic countries, di ba?
11:38.7
Purong leftist pa.
11:40.7
Labor in Australia.
11:42.7
Social Democrat in Germany.
11:45.7
These are left center, left governments.
11:48.7
These are not Republican conservative governments.
11:52.7
That's what I find very...
11:54.7
Parang hindi din ako makapaniwala.
11:57.7
It's not what you would expect.
11:59.7
Coming from yung tatay niya, authoritarian leader,
12:03.7
na iisipin mo parang...
12:06.7
Parang baka North Korea o baka ganung style lang gawin.
12:12.7
He's becoming a...
12:14.7
Is it fair to say na unti-unti parang medyo nagiging international na...
12:20.7
New darling of things.
12:22.7
That's the better way to say it.
12:23.7
I know that's what you had in mind.
12:25.7
I was going to say star eh.
12:27.7
Pero star siguro masyadong...
12:33.7
It's a matter lang of him...
12:35.7
Turning that into actual investments, actual...
12:38.7
Pero yung sa mga trips niya, ito lang din yung sinasabi ko.
12:42.7
Kasi hindi ito masyadong pinag-uusapan sa online, sa mga vloggers and all.
12:46.7
Pero like sa Australia, like yung sa Vietnam.
12:50.7
Yung Vietnam yung nag-suporta sa atin out of all the ASEAN countries.
12:54.7
So it's not like yung pagkunta niya is...
12:59.7
It's building the foundations of something.
13:03.7
Building the foundation of yung magandang relationships with the countries like Vietnam, like Japan, like Australia.
13:11.7
Which is, yun dapat yung ginagawa naman kasi talaga.
13:14.7
Kasi hindi naman tayo pwedeng umasa lang like sa US lahat.
13:18.7
And definitely China, puro pangako lang yung ibaba to sa atin.
13:22.7
Kasi yun ang sinasabi sa...
13:24.7
Ito yung madalas nilang sinasabi.
13:26.7
Ito yung parang pinasok sa kanila ni Digong.
13:28.7
Na dapat neutral lang.
13:30.7
Dapat neutral lang.
13:31.7
Sabi ko hindi naman neutral yung kay Digong.
13:33.7
And sa panahon ngayon, di ba?
13:35.7
You cannot go full neutral kasi parehong sides may mga magagandang inaalok eh.
13:42.7
Pero siyempre, you have to form alliances din with other countries din.
13:46.7
Na parang pananggalang or pang-balance lang doon sa nagbabanggaang superpowers na yun.
13:53.7
So I think, pag nating sa online, hindi siya pinag-uusapan masyado.
13:57.7
And the general public, hindi din ganun naiintindihan pa yung internet.
14:01.7
Yung importance nung building good relationships like yung nga sa Vietnam and Australia.
14:07.7
That would be helpful pagdating sa defense natin in the future.
14:11.7
Like yung makukuha nating support ng military and yung mga gamit and yung technology.
14:17.7
So hindi pa siya masyadong na-appreciate talaga nung anong public ngayon.
14:21.7
At siguro the government should spend more effort explaining to the people yung importance...
14:27.7
They should get more vloggers like you to explain it.
14:30.7
Yun nga. Naka-apply na naman ako.
14:32.7
Tinukin ko yung DTI plans. DSWD pala gusto nung isa. Ikaw naman, Malacanang vlogger.
14:38.7
O parang si Secretary Guibo. That's a good chance for him to ano eh.
14:43.7
Kasi alam naman si Secretary Guibo, minsan tumatakbo din. Gusto din maging senador in the future.
14:49.7
Who knows? That's a great way for him to explain to people ano ba yung trabaho ko, bakit mahalaga yung trabaho ko,
14:56.7
how am I helping the Philippines in the future to become more independent na hindi tayo aasa sa kung ano mang superpower.
15:05.7
Diba? We could build better relationships with other growing economies like India, Australia, Japan, lahat ng mga yun.
15:15.7
Mark, you're saying...
15:16.7
Mukhang higher position ang gusto ni Guibo eh.
15:19.7
Medyo. Stepping stone pa rin.
15:22.7
That would definitely help.
15:25.7
Pilipinos, they like strong-willed individuals eh. So...
15:30.7
Pero Mark, I super agree with you. I super agree.
15:33.7
Kaya nga diba we had an episode the other week na parang how shocked we are na under-advertised ang itong administration na ito.
15:42.7
Considering maharlika-maharlika pa naman sila. You're absolutely right.
15:45.7
Maybe that's one thing that came out of the Duterte era which taught us something about the times.
15:52.7
Hindi ka pwede umasa sa mainstream.
15:55.7
And traditional media alone, as important as they are. But you have to actually reach out directly and nothing better than, of course, blogger extraordinaire, Mark Gamboa.
16:04.7
Thank you so much for joining us in this episode. Let's do like super mini episode lang, Ronald and Mark.
16:10.7
Pag-usapan natin itong Civil Society Convoy na yan. I think it's important. We have to discuss it very shortly. Maraming salamat, guys. Talk to you soon.
