01:14.7
And more importantly, I'd like to talk about the impact or long-term effect nitong mga ganitong desisyon.
01:23.8
So I decided to invite two important resource persons.
01:28.6
Our discussion tonight, no?
01:30.0
Una ko pong papakilala sa inyo.
01:32.2
Siya po ay isang veteranong periodista.
01:35.2
Siya po ay isa po sa mga trustees ng Center for Media Freedom and Responsibility.
01:42.6
Siya po si Mr. Vergel Santos.
01:44.7
And then, kasama rin po natin si Mr. Caloy Conde, a former journalist with the New York Times, no?
01:52.0
Tapos siya po ngayon ay ang Philippine researcher ng Human Rights Watch.
01:56.0
Magandang gabi po sa inyo.
01:57.8
Thank you for joining us.
01:59.1
Ito mas Vox First.
02:00.8
Magandang gabi, Christian.
02:01.8
Magandang gabi, Vergel.
02:05.8
Okay, magandang gabi sa inyo.
02:07.0
Mukhang excited na akong pag-usapan nito, no?
02:10.0
Okay, so again, ano naman ito, no?
02:12.3
This is a very frank discussion about what happened.
02:15.2
Let's start with Mr. Vergel Santos.
02:18.3
Did the House get it right, yung desisyon nila to revoke the franchise of SMNI?
02:27.3
It's not for me to judge.
02:28.6
Pwede tama o mali eh.
02:30.9
Kasi in the end, ang titignan dyan eh, mataas na hukuman eh.
02:36.8
Pero kung titignan mo, sabihin mo, reasonable ba na gawin yun?
02:44.4
Ang tingin ko, mas reasonable yan kaysa ABS-CBN eh.
02:48.3
If only I could make a comparison.
02:52.2
So ang tingin ko dyan, dapat talagang imbestigahan yan.
02:58.6
Dapat imbestigahan.
03:00.3
After all, ang iniimbestigahan mo, eh franchise holder eh.
03:05.9
May kontrata sa gobyerno eh.
03:08.4
So, ang sa akin, tama lang yan.
03:11.7
Okay, how about you, Kaloy?
03:14.8
Well, agree naman ako kay Vergel, no?
03:18.4
Although, based on what I've read so far sa coverage ng issue na ito,
03:23.9
mayroon mga specific violations na sinasight ang mga legislator.
03:28.6
But, allegedly, SMNI committed violations of the franchise.
03:36.0
You know, hindi lang ito tipong, basta lang hindi lang nilang nagustuhan.
03:40.1
Mayroon mga specific violations.
03:42.2
But, quite apart from that, I think itong action na ito against SMNI is expected na rin
03:49.2
because of its long history of really violating, not so much from where I sit,
03:55.2
not so much yung franchise nila.
03:57.2
But, yung kanilang...
03:58.6
tungkulin sa publiko, which is to tell, you know, to report the truth and, more importantly, do no harm.
04:07.4
Their series of red-tagging and all of that, pati nga ako, natira na ako dyan yun ng ilang beses,
04:13.2
are harming people.
04:14.7
And for that, they should be investigated.
04:18.0
So, tama lang, indecision ng house, at least.
04:24.4
Yeah, for me, the house is within their...
04:28.6
I think, within their right to investigate them.
04:32.3
And if the franchise violations are merited, then, are proven, then, mananagot sila doon.
04:40.8
But, later on, may mga caveat akong kailangang sabihin tungkol dyan
04:44.9
because from my reading dito, ay medyo may pagka-slippery slope ng konti ito.
04:50.7
I mean, this may tama siguro na gawin nila sa SMNI ito, but where does it stop?
04:55.4
Because we first saw this in ABS-CBN.
04:58.6
Now, it's happening to ABS-CBN.
05:00.4
Although, hindi siya magandang comparison, pero, again, there's a slippery slope here.
05:05.3
And I think Vergel will have some opinion on that one, too, that we can hihimayin natin later on.
05:11.5
Ayun nga, sir Vergel, yung slippery slope na binabanggit ni...
05:15.4
It's also one of the concerns I have.
05:19.8
Pwedeng the house got it right at this point, at this particular example.
05:24.8
Pero, hindi kaya magamit yan next time.
05:27.0
Kasi, highly political.
05:28.6
I mean, pwedeng tama yung mga pinagbasihan niyan.
05:31.7
Paano kung nainis naman sila sa ibang news organization?
05:34.8
And they have that same power to revoke a franchise.
05:38.1
What do you think?
05:40.9
Ano, press freedom case din yan eh.
05:43.1
I think itong, ito yung sinasabi natin, slippery slope.
05:49.1
Yung, the press freedom aspects of the whole case.
05:55.1
Ang sa akin, alam mo, yung press freedom.
05:58.6
Eh, malaking laban talaga yan.
06:02.5
At kung ako ay nasa press, eh talaga yan na ipaglalaban ko ng gusto.
06:07.1
Kasi, yan na lang ang aking kalayaan.
06:09.6
I-sine-share ko pa yung kalayaan na yan sa lahat eh.
06:12.8
I-sine-share ko sa kongreso.
06:14.7
I-sine-share ko sa gobyerno.
06:16.6
I-sine-share ko sa lahat.
06:18.2
Kaya, kailangan ipaglaban yan.
06:20.2
On the other hand, ako naman, stickler ako sa maayos na pamamahayan.
06:26.5
Pag nakita ko nagkamali ka,
06:28.4
minsan, nagkamali ka ng dalawang beses.
06:31.6
Nakita ko na ulit-ulit at iyon na rin ang mali mo.
06:35.2
Eh, ang tingin ko niyan, eh, at least dapat ka na-imbestigahan
06:39.7
kung ang ginagawa mo, eh, naaangkok sa provisions
06:46.1
ng iyong franchise o kontrata o hindi.
06:50.5
Kasi ako naman ganito eh, no?
06:52.3
Dalhin mo man yan kahit saan.
06:54.6
In the end, kung gusto mong ilaban ang gusto yan,
06:57.1
dadating sa mataas na court yan eh.
07:00.1
So, tingnan natin.
07:01.4
Pero sa akin, ilalaban ko yan.
07:03.6
Sa isang banda, tinitingnan ko naman din ang bawat kaso.
07:07.4
Ah, sinasabi ko nga, mahirap yan na-compare sa ABS-CBN.
07:15.9
Alam mo, ang comparison dyan, dalawang punto eh.
07:20.6
Yung ABS-CBN, walang mali eh.
07:23.4
Ang tingin ko, ah.
07:27.1
yung, ah, yung SMNI, mukhang meron.
07:30.7
Yung ABS-CBN, timid yung mga tao ng ABS-CBN, di man lumaban.
07:36.6
Itong ang tingin ko ang mali, ito laban ng laban ng gusto.
07:40.0
So, dalawang ano yan eh.
07:42.1
Maraming, maraming dapat tingnan yan.
07:44.2
Although, para sa akin,
07:46.4
ang press freedom case, talagang, ano yan eh,
07:49.2
sensitive na, ano yan eh,
07:50.9
sensitive na court yan, no ah?
07:53.3
So, dapat talaga himayin ang gusto.
07:57.1
I, ah, just after that, ah, question, if I may.
08:01.8
I think kailangan maging, ah, vocal, or maging, ah,
08:05.9
maging expressed yung, ah, posisyong dapat ipaliwanag ng mga, ah, bumoto para sa pag, ah, pag, ah,
08:15.2
tanggal ng prangkisa, tungkol sa press freedom.
08:17.7
I think this should be very, very clear
08:20.3
to, ah, you know, to,
08:22.3
to the public na this is not,
08:24.3
and that you're going after SMNI, not because,
08:26.5
it was, ah, it was, ah, critical of them, or,
08:29.8
or, you know, hindi nila nang gustuhan yung mga reporting nila sa kanila.
08:32.8
They should go after SMNI
08:34.3
for many, many of the, many violations that it has, it has, ah, committed.
08:38.6
Some of them, ah, don't have anything to do with press freedom.
08:42.2
Some of them have to do with human rights,
08:43.8
with international humanitarian law and human rights.
08:45.8
Ah, yun palang punto na yun.
08:47.8
Dapat imbistigahan ng SMNI
08:49.8
and if that means tanggalan ng prangkisa
08:51.8
because it is contributing to harm,
08:53.8
then tanggalan ng prangkisa.
08:55.8
Pero dito nga yung pumapasok kayo dito yung
08:57.8
medyo, ah, masela na usapin ng press freedom.
09:00.6
Ako, minsan naiisip ko,
09:02.6
ah, absolutist ako sa press freedom, eh.
09:05.2
Ang isang, isang, isang position ko,
09:07.8
I don't know what Vergel thinks of this, is that
09:09.8
kahit puro kagaguhan pa yung pinagsasamin mo dyan,
09:12.5
you have the right to say that.
09:14.5
At ba, manalagot ka na lang sa existing laws,
09:17.2
na mga batas, kung saan, nire-regulate yung mga ganun klase mong pagsasalita.
09:21.6
Halimbawa, if you're going to say something there that will have an impact,
09:25.7
impact on the, ah, ah, the, the safety of somebody else,
09:28.6
then dapat manalagot ka doon.
09:30.6
Tama? Ito yung tinatawag nating crime fire in the, in the middle of a movie, movie theater.
09:35.5
Ah, pero, again, ang danger kasi dito,
09:39.5
is that, once, ah, andito ka na sa path na ito,
09:43.9
na, ah, una nating tinahak nung na-cancel ang ABS-CBN,
09:47.5
susunod-sunod na yan. So, the next administration, the next, ah, Congress,
09:51.5
what's going to stop them from na-suddenly targeting GMA?
09:55.7
Dahil hindi na yan nagustuhan.
09:57.7
A president has been set kasi with ABS-CBN.
09:59.7
And, you know, again, babalik tayo.
10:03.7
Kami, pareho kami ni Vergel pala sa Center for Media Freedom, pareho kami trustin yan.
10:07.7
Ito, pinag-la, pinag-uusapan namin lagi ito.
10:09.7
Paano mo i-regulate yung mga kabulukan ng media, yung mga lapses ng media?
10:13.7
Hindi pa pasok yung self-regulation, industry ng, ah, industry regulation.
10:19.7
Pero, again, that is easier said than done.
10:21.7
And, of course, let's also clarify, no?
10:23.7
Boto pa lang ito sa mababang kapulungan.
10:25.7
So, it remains to be seen whether the Senators would agree.
10:29.7
Pero, syempre, malaking impact niyan dahil yung pag-originate ng ganyang, ah,
10:35.7
desisyon when it comes to franchise sa House of Representatives, no? Tama po ba?
10:41.7
Hindi nga. Ayan, Sir Vergel, no? Isa rin yung sa mga iniisip ko rito.
10:47.7
Di ba ang trigger neto was the commentary coming from, ah,
10:51.7
one of their hosts, no? Si Celis.
10:55.7
Questioning the travel expenses daw ng house o ng speaker.
11:01.7
Tapos nagpalabas sila ng datos yung house. Sinabi, hindi, mali yan. Fake news yan.
11:05.7
Yan ang trigger niyan, di ba?
11:07.7
Tapos, eventually, inimbestigahan.
11:09.7
I mean, how do you safeguard legitimate reporting or other news organizations
11:15.7
from this very strong power wielded by Congress?
11:19.7
Para hindi naman siya ma-misuse. I guess that's a very important point of discussion, di ba? Go ahead.
11:27.7
Ang tingin ko, malambot na, malambot na rason yun.
11:31.7
Yung nagkamali ka dahil hindi pala totoo.
11:35.7
Ganun ang ginasta. Ganun kalaki ang ginasta.
11:39.7
Wala kaso yan. Kasi, pag tinignan mo yung kamalian ng SMN ay kutakot-takot yan, eh.
11:43.7
Ang sinalbahin niya ang kutakot-takot. Kasama ako, eh.
11:47.7
Disamali si Caluye. Pero sa akin yan, alam mo ako.
11:52.7
Yu, ako tatanungin mo, hindi ko dadali sa korte yan.
11:55.7
Labanan ko nalang on the same, on the same, on the same battleground.
12:01.7
Pero ang isa pang punto dito, Christian,
12:05.6
yung maraming issues surrounding franchising.
12:10.5
Isa pa yan. Ang sa akin lang ito. Dapat bang iimbestigahan yung SMNI?
12:17.7
kung sino man na merong frankisa sa gobyerno,
12:22.4
kung ang dahilan, dapat niyong investigahan
12:25.5
para idiretso ninyo ang process ng franchising.
12:29.6
E tamang-tama yan.
12:31.5
In fact, sa Senado, ang sinasabi ng Senado,
12:35.5
ito malaki ang kinalaman sa mga issues
12:40.6
surrounding yung franchising.
12:43.5
Kaya sa akin, kung tatanungin mo ko,
12:46.5
mas madali kong maaintindihan yung ginagawa ng Senado
12:49.5
kisa din ang ginagawa ng lumababang kapulungan.
12:54.9
Mas naiintindihan ko yun.
12:57.4
Pero pangkana sinabi ni Caloy,
13:00.5
tayo mga periodista, dapat talaga tayo dyan.
13:04.9
Tapos press freedom activist, hindi lang activist.
13:08.4
Talagang we should revolt for press freedom even.
13:13.6
Yan ang dapat na...
13:16.5
I think this needs to be said as well
13:38.5
of how quite cynical yung paggamit ng press freedom na issue
13:43.1
ng SMNI to defend itself.
13:45.9
I think this needs to be said as well of how quite cynical yung paggamit ng press freedom na issue
13:46.5
ng SMNI to defend itself.
13:47.0
You know, dapat sagutin niya ng diretsyo
13:49.2
yung mga specific allegations against sa kanila
13:51.2
sa terms of franchising.
13:54.5
Napaka-convenient kasi nasabihin na,
13:55.9
ah, binubusalan kami ng Congress.
13:58.5
So, it may be true, you know,
14:00.4
na this is a political move by members of Congress.
14:04.8
But, it may be true.
14:06.5
But again, I think,
14:08.1
mayroong isa akong gusto i-raise na point dito,
14:10.4
which is not defending SMNI,
14:12.3
but raising an issue about
14:14.6
sanang huwag maging selective,
14:16.1
ang mga kongreso,
14:17.5
kung kailan nila i-apply ang press freedom.
14:19.7
Kung kailan nila i-apply ang kanilang batas
14:25.1
sa tinagal-tagal na ng pambabalahuran ng SMNI
14:28.3
sa mga human rights activists,
14:30.9
dapat doon pati inusin sa inyong prangkisa nilang yan.
14:34.4
Hindi lang ngayon.
14:35.5
Sinimula nilang usisain ito
14:36.9
nung binanata ng SMNI na si
14:38.8
House Speaker Romualdez.
14:41.8
What does it say?
14:42.7
It means na itong mga nasa kongreso din,
14:46.1
wala silang even application of the law
14:52.6
tingin ko dapat makorect din yun.
14:56.7
How do you go about it?
14:59.3
hindi natin pwede i-expect na
15:00.8
masilak yung laging motibo.
15:04.0
Although tama yung desisyon,
15:06.8
Kasi kung ganun yung pinagagalingan nito,
15:09.1
edi madali siya mamisuse.
15:10.8
tama rin sinabi ni Calay,
15:13.9
Hindi naman sila papalagay
15:15.3
kung hindi si Speaker,
15:16.1
hindi naman dito eh.
15:18.6
Very reasonable ang suspicion
15:20.3
na magkakasama sila lahat dyan.
15:23.2
I think it is fairly easy
15:25.2
for me to make the case
15:27.3
na magkakasama sila riyan.
15:30.2
is raise other cases,
15:33.8
especially previous cases.
15:36.9
Madaling malaan yan.
15:39.6
is investigahan nyo
15:40.9
kung gusto nyo investigahan.
15:46.1
ang gusto nyo gawin
15:47.8
na tanggalan agad ng frankeza,
15:51.0
ibang usapin yan.
15:56.8
ang masakit nito,
15:57.9
tumakbo na tumakbo
16:03.1
hanggang nawala ng frankeza.
16:05.8
Hindi na ilaban eh.
16:10.4
kaya ang tingin ko,
16:12.2
pati yung mga tao,
16:20.3
gusto tuluyan itong ano,
16:22.2
tuluyan itong SMNI
16:23.6
at tuluyan si Kibuloy.
16:39.1
to the side of Congress.
16:41.2
Kasi ang kalaban si Kibuloy.
16:45.7
dahil kay Kibuloy.
16:47.7
In the first place,
16:51.8
na claiming to be
16:53.8
not only the son of God,
16:55.5
but the owner of the universe.
16:59.2
that although he owns the universe,
17:02.0
definitely not SMNI.
17:05.0
if it's convenient for him
17:12.5
Kaya maraming nagagalit.
17:15.0
eh hindi mo naman maialis yan.
17:16.9
Kaya ako sabi ko nga eh,
17:18.9
pag-away na kayo ng istoryan,
17:21.0
tinan natin kung saan makakarating yan
17:24.1
Ang kagustuhan ko lang doon sa
17:29.3
maraming lalabas.
17:33.0
basta may lumalabas.
17:35.7
Lalo na katotohanan
17:37.1
o malapit sa katotohanan,
17:40.6
eh tama na rin yan.
17:43.1
Gusto ko makita yan.
17:45.7
before you respond to that,
17:48.0
ang inisip ko rito,
17:49.5
let's also somehow
17:52.0
and breathe a little.
17:54.8
Kasi baka nakikita lang natin
17:55.9
yung immediate issues eh,
17:58.8
Kasi paano kung susunod,
18:00.3
may kinainisan yung speaker.
18:03.6
reporting was against his interest.
18:05.4
Eh, pwedeng imobilize
18:06.3
ang power ng kongreso
18:07.3
to also go after that.
18:10.9
diminish the idea of press freedom.
18:12.6
Although in this case,
18:13.9
ako mismo ay agree na,
18:15.7
mahirap yatang magtago
18:17.2
dito sa prinsipyo
18:19.0
whenever it's convenient.
18:21.6
isa yun sa mga concerns ko po.
18:26.4
that's a good point, Christian,
18:29.8
into what I'm going to say next,
18:33.0
I'm not a legal scholar,
18:35.5
I'm not a lawyer,
18:36.8
I probably don't know
18:38.7
I'm talking about here
18:41.4
I think this raises,
18:47.6
nitong franchising
18:54.6
is it really being,
18:58.1
that's equitable,
19:04.1
freedom of opinion,
19:05.1
and all the other
19:05.7
freedoms associated with it?
19:13.9
ng franchise law?
19:14.9
sa franchise law na ito,
19:15.9
tingin ko kailangang
19:19.9
manipulation and abuse.
19:21.1
We saw that in ABS-CBN,
19:24.4
regardless of our position
19:26.5
what's to stop them
19:28.5
from using it again
19:29.3
on somebody else,
19:30.0
on some other network,
19:30.9
some other journalist
19:31.8
na sakop ng franchise law?
19:36.8
or ng mga advocate groups
19:39.3
ayusin itong franchise law
19:42.8
sa broadcast industry.
19:44.9
I think may sagot dyan
19:45.7
si Sir Virel, no?
19:47.9
napag-usapan namin
19:53.3
I was still with ABS-CBN,
19:55.9
grappling with the idea.
19:57.9
how do you somehow
19:59.2
lessen the political
20:01.6
the grant of franchise
20:03.1
coming from Congress?
20:06.1
sa Independenting Commission.
20:09.7
Independenting Commission
20:13.0
at isang commission
20:18.2
Any independent commission.
20:20.4
Huwag sa kongreso.
20:26.1
It's a political house eh.
20:28.4
Congress is a political house.
20:31.2
At ang namamayaan dyan eh,
20:35.3
political interest.
20:37.8
Dapat maliwanag sa atin yun.
20:45.8
eh dapat tumingin lang
20:47.1
sa technical issues.
20:50.9
Hindi dapat tingnan
20:52.2
ang press freedom issues.
20:55.4
Technical issues lang.
20:57.3
Kaya kita binigyan
20:59.9
pwede kang magpatakbo
21:01.6
ng isang network.
21:03.3
Yan lang naman yan eh.
21:07.4
pwedeng ibigay sa'yo.
21:09.1
Kaya binigay sa'yo yan.
21:16.4
You have the capability,
21:21.1
to run a franchise.
21:26.1
Kasi sinasabi nga doon
21:29.8
ng lumawig doon eh.
21:32.0
posibleng lumawig din
21:38.3
kung sabi ko nga,
21:39.7
kung ang pag-uusapan natin,
21:43.2
sorting the process.
21:48.2
tawagin niyo si Kibuloy
21:52.4
at saka sa House,
21:56.7
pero dahilan lang
22:00.9
franchise holder.
22:02.8
Franchise siya eh.
22:04.8
tawag mo sa Kongreso,
22:05.8
hindi ako pupunti eh.
22:07.2
I will not put myself
22:08.4
under the rules of Congress eh.
22:10.2
And I don't think
22:10.8
they can do anything to me.
22:13.8
ano ito, may kontrata ito eh.
22:16.8
So, hindi po pwedeng hindi gawin.
22:21.8
na hindi kailangan ng franchise,
22:23.8
ba't ang pupunti ka riyan?
22:24.8
Ganun lang naman yan eh.
22:27.8
i-delineate yung ano,
22:30.8
yung mga linya, linawin.
22:33.8
Which is why I think,
22:35.8
kailangan talagang tingnan niyo yung franchise law natin.
22:37.8
Yes, kailangan, kailangan.
22:39.8
Kailangan tingnan yan. Kasi, unang-una,
22:43.6
should not have a business,
22:49.6
getting back at members of the media
22:52.6
because of journalistic malpractices
22:54.6
or omissions or commissions.
22:56.6
Wala silang pakialam
22:57.6
sa quality ng broadcast
22:58.6
or sa quality ng journalism ng media.
23:02.6
Hindi sila dapat nakikita.
23:03.6
Yes, even if the speaker
23:09.6
more heinous crimes,
23:11.6
puto siya sa Korte.
23:16.6
I think ko dito eh.
23:17.6
That's actually a good point because
23:19.6
it's not as if walang avenues for redress
23:22.6
kung sino man ang walang may gusto
23:26.6
sa ginagawa ng SMNI or any other journalist.
23:28.6
Meron silang papamaharaan for redress.
23:34.6
pwedeng dulugan para,
23:36.6
pwede silang maghai ng,
23:38.6
we don't support libel laws in the Philippines
23:40.6
but kung civil lang sana ang libel,
23:42.6
pwede nilang gawin yun.
23:47.6
you can scrap it.
23:53.6
mayroon namang ibang mga batas eh
23:55.6
that can be cited eh
23:58.6
in these cases eh.
24:01.6
hindi lang yung decriminalization ang gusto ko.
24:03.6
Scrap it all together.
24:04.6
Mayroon namang mga ibang batas eh.
24:14.6
press freedom extremist talaga ako.
24:18.6
anyone should be,
24:20.6
basta pinaglalaban mo ang,
24:21.6
ang press freedom,
24:22.6
dapat extremist ka eh.
24:23.6
Wala ka nang kalaban-laban eh.
24:26.6
Ito pa yung isa kong gusto rin puntuhin po,
24:29.6
Sir Virgel tsaka Kaloy, no?
24:32.6
hindi natin kinakampihan yung SMNI dito.
24:34.6
Malinaw yung mga maling ginawa nila.
24:36.6
We're talking about this as a matter of principle.
24:40.6
congressional power to grand franchise
24:43.6
from being used to get back at people they don't like.
24:49.6
bakit yung mga journalist
24:52.6
noong licensing principle?
24:54.6
Ito yung preview nun.
24:56.6
Kung para makapag-practice ka ng profesyon mo,
24:58.6
kailangan mo ng lisensya from the government,
25:01.6
madali kang isensor.
25:03.6
Madali kang tigilan.
25:05.6
Ito yung preview nun.
25:08.6
hindi ka pwede mag-practice ng
25:09.6
gusto mong gawin,
25:10.6
bilang isang news network,
25:13.6
a legit news network.
25:14.6
Kasi pwede kang mabawian ng prangkisa eh.
25:17.6
pwede kang busalan.
25:18.6
Yan ang isa sa mga concerns dito na nakikita ko eh.
25:23.6
anong tingin niyo diyan?
25:26.6
isang ano lang yan,
25:27.6
I'm sorry for that.
25:32.6
Pwede kang busalan.
25:38.6
insidious effect ng franchising law nato
25:39.6
sa broadcast industry
25:41.6
a lot of politicians rely on broadcast,
25:47.6
critical benefit.
25:51.6
maraming mga radio stations ay pagmamay-ari ng mga politician
25:52.6
and they have to get franchises.
25:55.6
that in itself is problematic kasi
25:57.6
itong mga radio stations na ito na sangkaterba sa Pilipinas na ginagawa,
26:03.6
kung sino-sino na lang ang dyan o sa nasa ere na may prangkisa itong mga ito,
26:07.6
pagmamay-ari nito or nagkocontrol dito,
26:09.6
may mga mga mga mga legislators din,
26:11.6
mga politiko din.
26:15.6
yung franchise law,
26:19.6
needs na gusto nila.
26:22.6
hindi maganda yun
26:30.6
advantage itong mga politiko na ito.
26:32.6
just a side note on this,
26:34.6
this is one of the reasons why
26:35.6
and we all be press freedom groups in the Philippines,
26:37.6
ay alam na rin ito,
26:38.6
why ang dami namin pinapatay ng mga radio journalists
26:42.2
of the way politicians
26:45.7
with broadcasters
26:48.5
in terms of doing their jobs.
26:51.4
You know, ginagamit
26:52.7
or tinithreten, mga ganoon.
26:55.9
tutukan ito ng franchise law
26:58.4
din. Hindi lang yung tipong
27:00.1
nagalit lang sila dahil
27:02.0
may nireport ang SMNA
27:04.0
e papatanggol nila ng
27:06.1
prangkisa na, again, we're not
27:08.4
saying na mali yun, pero dapat mas specific
27:10.6
dapat ang approach
27:12.6
sa pagtanggal ng prangkisa.
27:14.6
Hindi yung dahil hindi mo nagustuhan yung
27:16.3
reporting. Saka dapat, before
27:18.3
I call Sir Virgel,
27:20.8
dapat ano yan, kumbaga, extreme
27:22.4
measure na hindi siya yung first option.
27:25.2
Kasi isa sa mga naalala ko
27:26.9
during the franchise hearing sa
27:28.3
ABS-CBN, parang yung maraming
27:30.3
kongresista noong time na yun, pati yung
27:32.2
then-speaker Alan Peter Caetano,
27:34.5
nasa ngandikit ni Duterte
27:36.1
e, parang lahat naging
27:40.1
Parang lahat naging joint professors e.
27:42.5
Kumaka-pag-lecture tungkol sa content e.
27:44.9
Sabi ko, ang gagaling pa rin ito
27:46.0
mag-lecture e. Saan ba yung
27:47.5
School of Journalism nila? Baka pwede mag-enroll.
27:50.7
Diba? Yun ang danger dyan.
27:52.2
Nagiging instant ano e, demagogues
27:54.4
when it comes to proper practice e.
27:57.6
Pero in the end, ang problema
28:00.2
dyan, e yung kalakarang
28:07.2
kultura nitong sosyedad natin
28:13.4
Kulang pa talaga yan
28:19.1
Maraming kulang e.
28:20.9
Kulang sa pag-intindi. Magkabilang panig
28:24.9
pwede at ano ang kalayaan.
28:28.9
Baka ang kalakaran
28:32.8
ang lagi nagahari
28:34.6
e, sino yung nasa pwesto.
28:37.9
and therefore, patron,
28:39.8
ganyan ang ganyan ang mangyayari dyan.
28:42.3
Kahit na anong batas pa ang lagay mo riyan.
28:45.8
Ang mga batas e, mas marami
28:47.7
ang hindi nasunod.
28:53.9
Paglalaan mo, tingnan mo lang
28:55.7
kung ano yung dapat talagang
28:57.7
sundin na batas na hindi nasunod.
29:01.7
Itong franchise law, isa lang yan e.
29:04.2
Pero yung karamihan,
29:06.1
yung presidente nga natin e,
29:08.1
Supreme Court na nagsasabi,
29:12.6
Sinabihan e, guilty ka ng graft e.
29:16.6
Kulong yan, di rin kinulong e.
29:18.9
Pag tinignan mo talaga,
29:22.6
Sir, correction lang.
29:23.7
Medyo napakahirap ng problema.
29:26.0
Perspective lang, Pilipinas tayo ah.
29:28.3
Marami nakakalusot.
29:29.8
Yan ang reason dyan.
29:32.2
At saka, yung ano,
29:36.1
sa akin, technical issue yan e.
29:39.5
Dahil ikaw, binibigyan ka ng franquisa
29:42.0
because you are capable of running a franchise
29:46.2
and also because you are being given
29:53.6
Hindi lahat po pwede.
29:55.1
Because of the, ano, of the scarcity.
30:03.1
Dimitted resource yung frequency.
30:04.9
Oo. Because of the resource.
30:05.9
Or resource of franchisable platforms.
30:14.7
Yan naman ang kasalanan e.
30:16.9
Eko ako nga, sabi ko e.
30:18.9
Sa ngayon, it seems to me,
30:21.3
na pwede nang mawala yung franchise,
30:24.7
huwag nang pakialaman yan dahil yung mismong internet
30:29.9
allows everyone to be on the air,
30:35.1
and to be online,
30:37.1
using one platform.
30:40.1
Using lang one platform.
30:44.1
pag tinignan ko naman,
30:45.1
naku, gulong lalo.
30:47.1
Dahil nga dyan sa internet,
30:49.1
nagkaroon ng bagong porno.
30:52.1
Ang bagong porno ngayon,
30:53.1
yung fake news e.
30:56.1
hindi mo maalaan talaga,
30:59.1
hindi ko sa kasusuot e.
31:06.1
left on my own e.
31:12.1
paano ko ba ito ilalaban?
31:15.1
At maghanap na lang ako ng kakampi kong kamukha ni Caloy
31:18.1
para ilaban namin itong mga ito.
31:21.1
Pero sa dami ng mga
31:24.1
ng mga intereses,
31:26.1
na halo-halo yan,
31:28.1
na naglalaro dito sa ground na ito,
31:34.1
eh ang tingin ko,
31:35.1
mas kukunti pa tayo e.
31:37.1
Pagka tinitingnan ko kung anong klase
31:39.1
yung mga gobyerno ang ating hinalag,
31:41.1
kukunti na lang tayo e.
31:47.1
lalong humihirap ang laban.
31:52.1
force to good ka e.
31:53.1
Hindi pwede hindi mo ilaban yan.
31:55.1
Yan na lang ang nasa yun,
31:56.1
hindi pa ilalaban.
31:58.1
Ito pala yung, ano,
32:00.1
ito yung next question.
32:02.1
we can have a first crack.
32:03.1
Dito sa tanong na ito.
32:05.1
Kasi we're also seeing the reality na,
32:07.1
kahit nandyan yung press freedom,
32:10.1
pre-expression that applies to all,
32:12.1
and should be enjoyed by everyone,
32:15.1
nandun yung realidad na meron ngayon
32:17.1
mga hyper-partisan,
32:20.1
news or media organizations.
32:22.1
How best to deal with such platforms?
32:28.1
Yung ganyan, hyper-partisan.
32:30.1
Malinaw naman, diba?
32:31.1
Tapos, of course, occasionally,
32:32.1
they can invoke press freedom also.
32:36.1
What do you think?
32:38.1
Well, here's the thing.
32:41.1
Malinaw naman ang batas tungkol sa expression.
32:45.1
There are specific limits of the law
32:48.1
in terms of, you know,
32:50.1
the stuff that you can say on air
32:53.1
as long as it doesn't harm other people
32:56.1
or it doesn't infringe on national security,
32:58.1
yung mga gano'n ano,
32:59.1
and doesn't defame other people.
33:01.1
Much as we hate to apply the law
33:04.1
on matters of yung pagpapahayag,
33:07.1
the reality, the fact is,
33:08.1
andyan yung mga yan.
33:10.1
But, I think, dun sa tanong na
33:13.1
how do you deal with the fact
33:16.1
that a lot of platforms are so abusive
33:18.1
and are so, you know,
33:20.1
they are so licentious,
33:21.1
they take liberties,
33:23.1
tingin ko wala kang makagawa dyan eh.
33:26.1
Hindi mo sila pwedeng busalan kasi.
33:28.1
Without violating the core tenets of democracy,
33:31.1
of democracy in this country.
33:33.1
Hindi mo sila pwedeng tanggalan ng mikropono
33:35.1
just because hindi mo gusto yung sinasabi nila.
33:39.1
ayaw natin mag-apply sa atin din yan,
33:41.1
yung mga gumagawa ng mga ginagawa natin may advocacy
33:44.1
na lagi natin pinanawagan sa gobyerno.
33:47.1
Huwag niyong busalan ang mga aktivista,
33:49.1
ang mga periodista.
33:50.1
Hindi, I think, malaking debate
33:54.1
or malaking issue yan
33:55.1
kung i-apply natin yung logic na yan.
33:58.1
Kung hindi natin i-apply ng logic na yan,
34:01.1
sa mga tawagin na natin na hindi masyadong responsable
34:06.1
na member ng media,
34:08.1
whether online, radio, print.
34:11.1
So in the sense, press freedom,
34:14.1
absolutist din ako.
34:16.1
Kasi ang tingin ko,
34:18.1
merong pamamaraan kung paano ayusin,
34:21.1
kung paano ayusin ng media, whatever platform,
34:25.1
yung sarili nila, yung pamamaraan nila,
34:27.1
yung kanilang ginagawang pagpapahayag.
34:31.1
Hindi sagot yung bubusalan mo sila.
34:34.1
Hindi sagot yung tatanggal mo sila ng mikropono.
34:37.1
Kasi I think society will suffer the worst
34:42.1
if we take that as the default kind of action
34:47.1
to deal with criticism,
34:49.1
to deal with irresponsible journalism.
34:52.1
Is there a way to deal with that?
34:54.1
Before I call si Sir Virgel,
34:57.1
para pala itong committee hearing,
34:59.1
before I recognize the gentleman from Makati,
35:04.1
na tama lahat siya, no?
35:06.1
Kasi ano rin ako dyan eh.
35:09.1
Siguro pareho naman tayong tatlo, no?
35:11.1
Medyo ano tayo yung extremist
35:13.1
para tingin sa press freedom.
35:14.1
Miski ayaw mo nung sinasabi,
35:16.1
miski parang gusto mong batukan,
35:18.1
dahil mali yung sinasabi o malicious,
35:20.1
nandun yung karapatan inherently, no?
35:22.1
Pero on one hand also, that can also be seen as naive
35:25.1
given the very complicated nature of platforms today.
35:28.1
That the distribution process can be manipulated
35:31.1
and are actually,
35:32.1
yung distribution platforms are actually manipulated.
35:36.1
So for instance, hindi tayo nung unang panahon pwedeng,
35:39.1
oh, sumigaw si Kaloy.
35:41.1
Lalabanan ko by using the same voice that I have.
35:44.1
Eh ngayon kasi, pwedeng may nagkokontrol
35:47.1
ng distribution ng boses ni Kaloy
35:50.1
Para pointed and targeted yung mga makakapakinig,
35:53.1
magkukonsume nun.
35:54.1
Tapos yung sarili ko naman boses,
35:56.1
pwedeng nadidinig ko lang
35:57.1
within a certain echo chamber.
36:00.1
It's a very complicated scenario today.
36:06.1
The bottom line sa akin, bago si Virgel,
36:08.1
you know, media is a marketplace of ideas.
36:12.1
And I think we should not, you know,
36:16.1
succumb to the temptation na
36:18.1
just because the other side says things
36:20.1
that we don't agree with, eh,
36:22.1
aluhin na natin siya,
36:24.1
disenfranchise na natin siya.
36:27.1
Sa sabi ko nga palagi,
36:29.1
and this is something that we advocate
36:31.1
even at CMFR with Virgel,
36:33.1
that the best way to counter disinformation
36:36.1
is more information,
36:37.1
more good journalism,
36:38.1
more, you know, more significant,
36:40.1
rigorous fact-checking, reporting,
36:43.1
you know, data journalism,
36:45.1
all sorts of journalism
36:46.1
that can counter the disinformation,
36:49.1
you know, na nangyayari ngayon.
36:52.1
I don't think there's any other way.
36:55.1
Kasi may mga paraan, obviously,
36:56.1
if you live in a,
36:57.1
if we are in a tyrannical society
37:01.1
where we have, you know,
37:02.1
a Putin-like president,
37:03.1
that's probably what's gonna happen.
37:05.1
But, you know, we are a democracy
37:07.1
or we pretend to be a democracy,
37:09.1
so wala tayong choice.
37:10.1
Forced to good tayo
37:11.1
to embrace the ideals of democracy.
37:13.1
And part of our responsibility
37:16.1
is not to easily succumb
37:19.1
to the temptations of undemocratic means.
37:21.1
You know what I mean?
37:22.1
It's, you know, kasi madaling gawin yan eh,
37:24.1
lalo na kung mayroon kang, mayroon kang,
37:25.1
which is exactly what the executive,
37:29.1
the politicians do
37:31.1
when they are slighted.
37:32.1
They have the power to nabusalan ka.
37:35.1
They have the power to disenfranchise you
37:38.1
or marginalize you.
37:39.1
And they use that power.
37:40.1
But I think, you know, in the end,
37:43.1
the only way for Philippine democracy to progress
37:46.1
is to really embrace it
37:48.1
and make sure that everybody fights for it
37:50.1
and uphold these values.
37:56.1
Ang problema natin,
38:00.1
ang realities ngayon,
38:01.1
realities din ng araw eh.
38:04.1
kung ako ang kabise sa isang media organization,
38:11.1
Kasi it is a business of snap decisions eh.
38:15.1
Ako ang dadawa ng desisyon
38:18.1
and I will take all excrement the next day.
38:22.1
Ako ang nagsabi eh, no?
38:24.1
Ganyan ang patakbo ng peryode ko.
38:27.1
Kasi nga business of snap decisions.
38:30.1
This has to come out immediately
38:33.1
because its possible effects are immediate.
38:40.1
So ilalabas mo agad eh, no?
38:42.1
So kailangan mo mag-decide.
38:44.1
Eh ako mag-de-decide yan.
38:46.1
Ngayon pagka-de-decide ko rin na
38:49.1
Nabigyan ko ng mikropono tong taon to?
38:52.1
Siraulo niyan eh.
38:54.1
Magagawa ko pa rin yan.
38:57.1
And I could argue na I would be within
39:03.1
the parameters of press freedom.
39:08.1
Yan ang hirap eh.
39:10.1
Ang pinag-uusapan natin dito,
39:12.1
whatever you say,
39:14.1
ang maghahari dyan, merkado eh.
39:17.1
Yung press freedom,
39:19.1
walang garansya yan eh.
39:22.1
Maghahari dyan yan.
39:23.1
Theoretical sa Constitution.
39:25.1
The only thing that can be realized in practice
39:33.1
is a plurality of news voices.
39:37.1
Na marami nagsasalita.
39:40.1
Pero kung nagsasalita ngayon,
39:43.1
nakaka-aintindi kung ano ang kalayaan
39:46.1
at kung anong puder o hindi.
39:48.1
Wala tayong pakialam doon eh.
39:50.1
Wala tayong magagawa eh.
39:52.1
Ganun talaga yun.
39:53.1
So ibig sabihin, may plurality of press voices.
39:58.1
Na because of that range,
40:03.1
there are enough views
40:08.1
for audiences to consider
40:11.1
before they make up their minds
40:14.1
about saying anything or doing anything.
40:17.1
Yun lang naman eh.
40:18.1
Pero yung press freedom, walang garansya eh.
40:20.1
Yan ang hirap sa demokrasya.
40:24.1
Whether democracy as it,
40:28.1
democracy in regard to the press,
40:33.1
democracy in regard to trade,
40:36.1
democracy in regard to politics,
40:39.1
democracy in regard to anything.
40:41.1
Ganyan talaga yan eh.
40:44.1
Which is why we have to fight for it.
40:46.1
Ang character na yan at mood ng merkado.
40:49.1
Kaya tayo nagkaroon ng presidente
40:51.1
kamukha ni Duterte at ni Marcos
40:54.1
dahil sa mood ng electorate.
40:58.1
Which is the market.
41:00.1
Ganun pa rin yan.
41:01.1
Ngayon, ang meron lang dyan is that
41:04.1
kung halimbawa, kung ang kabise
41:06.1
ng isang media organization,
41:09.1
pwede mo akong dalhin sa Korte.
41:10.1
At maaaring maaaring
41:14.1
ang desisyon ng Korte,
41:16.1
eh parusahan ako.
41:17.1
Wala akong magagawa.
41:20.1
Pero sabihin mo gagaransyahan yung
41:22.1
libring pamamahayag?
41:24.1
Wala yung garansyahan.
41:26.1
Ang ano lang dyan Virgel,
41:28.1
ang pinakagaransyahan dyan
41:30.1
is a commitment by every journalist.
41:32.1
You fight on a whole press freedom.
41:35.1
that's the only way.
41:36.1
But, related to what you just said Virgel,
41:39.1
and also to Christian's question kanina
41:41.1
about these new platforms.
41:42.1
I think this also,
41:45.1
signifies yung nagiging outsize role,
41:49.1
outsize I would say impact
41:52.1
ng yung gumababang quality
41:57.1
or gumababang level
41:59.1
ng gatekeeping sa mga newsrooms.
42:01.1
I mean, I say gatekeeping
42:04.1
not in the sense na tayo
42:05.1
or mga editors lang
42:07.1
katulad ni Virgel
42:08.1
or ako or whoever
42:09.1
ang mag-i-decide kung ano ang dapat pakinggan
42:11.1
or basahin ng publiko.
42:13.1
May specific functions naman yung
42:15.1
editorial gatekeeping
42:17.1
To make sure that these are accurate,
42:19.1
these are objective,
42:23.1
May na-layer upon layer objection.
42:26.1
dahil nga sa mga platform na ito,
42:29.1
yung gatekeeping role na ito
42:31.1
ng media and now with social media
42:38.1
democratize quote-unquote
42:39.1
itong mga platforms ngayon na,
42:43.1
when you say gatekeeping nga sa ngayon,
42:45.1
tataas ang kanakilay.
42:46.1
Who are you to gatekeep?
42:51.1
what they call a democratic platform
42:53.1
is actually a dump.
42:58.1
can put anything there.
43:01.1
this is the problem.
43:03.1
Dump lang yan eh.
43:05.1
Another, another reality
43:11.1
the cost of setting up
43:13.1
a media organization.
43:16.1
Lalo na yung television,
43:22.1
Hindi lang dahil doon,
43:23.1
dahil ang cost nalang kapil,
43:27.1
hindi na viable eh
43:29.1
ang periodiko eh.
43:36.1
lagay mo lang ng ilagay dyan.
43:38.1
At pag marunong nga lang,
43:45.1
pagka gusto mo conspiracy,
43:50.1
ikaw ang chief conspirator,
43:52.1
mambabayad ka lang.
43:54.1
Iyon ang gasto mo.
43:57.1
mada-drown out ngayon
44:00.1
dahil wala namang masyadong,
44:04.1
kaya mahirap talaga.
44:06.1
anong ko pa sinasabi eh,
44:09.1
Let's start drawing the line
44:11.1
for press freedom.
44:14.1
magkakasama tayo,
44:15.1
ganito ka gawin natin.
44:17.1
Baya lang natin yung babaan,
44:19.1
Pagka sila gano'n,
44:22.1
Lalabanan natin sila.
44:28.1
For the sake of press freedom,
44:35.1
fought for with our lives,
44:38.1
Kailangan gano'n ng ano,
44:39.1
draw mo yung line.
44:47.1
maayos na pamamahayag.
44:51.1
Speaking of drawing the line,
44:52.1
masensya na to sa mga nanonood
44:54.1
tsaka nakikinig ko,
44:55.1
alam ko mainit ang ulo nyo, no?
44:57.1
gusto ko lang ilagay sa perspective kasi,
45:01.1
Pwede natutuwa kayo
45:02.1
dahil sa tingin nyo,
45:05.1
Although, syempre,
45:06.1
dadaan pa sa Senado yan.
45:08.1
as far as the House is concerned,
45:09.1
you agree with the decision.
45:14.1
very good reasons to
45:17.1
Pero kasi minsan,
45:19.1
where do you draw the line
45:21.1
Speaking of plurality of
45:28.1
eh, nagpapakalat ng
45:33.1
busalan na lang yan.
45:34.1
Tanggalan ng prangkisa yan.
45:35.1
Instead of labanan siya,
45:37.1
in some other avenues.
45:41.1
yung ating paglaban,
45:43.1
yung pagbusal sa mga ganyang
45:45.1
maging tyrannical na rin.
45:46.1
To the point na tayo mismo
45:47.1
hindi natin makontrol.
45:50.1
hindi na naman legit yung
45:52.1
Pero parang gusto ko na siyang
45:56.1
to control press freedom,
45:57.1
even if you're an advocate,
45:58.1
can also consume you, eh.
46:01.1
isa yan sa mga iniisip ko, eh.
46:02.1
I don't know whether you
46:07.1
not specific to SMNI.
46:09.1
I want to know exactly the,
46:13.1
Anong gagawin natin?
46:22.1
in a democratic arrangement,
46:23.1
dapat linawi natin
46:25.1
kung saan papasok
46:26.1
yan lahat ng kaso mo.
46:35.1
in a democratic arrangement,
46:38.1
papasokan niya marami, eh.
46:39.1
Although in the end,
46:40.1
sa courting mataas
46:42.1
at yun ang huhusga.
46:44.1
ganun lang naman yan, eh.
46:47.1
ang sinasabi ko lang,
46:48.1
at whatever level,
46:50.1
dapat ilalaban ko yung
46:52.1
balayang pamamayag.
46:55.1
Hindi lang malaya, ah.
46:57.1
tsaka responsable, eh.
46:58.1
Yung ginagawa natin,
47:01.1
hindi lang malaya,
47:05.1
pati responsibilidad.
47:07.1
Dapat maliwanag sapi niyan.
47:10.1
baka sinabi mo na,
47:13.1
na wala tayong magagawa yan,
47:15.1
ako hindi ako papayag yan, eh.
47:16.1
Sabihin na walang magagawa, eh.
47:18.1
Hindi, gagawa ko,
47:21.1
At nakikita ko naman,
47:22.1
may nangyayari kahit paano.
47:24.1
Napinahan si Badoy, eh.
47:27.1
Napinahan si Badoy.
47:35.1
kagaguhan na pinagagawa ni Badoy
47:37.1
at mga kasama niya
47:46.1
hindi lang kapwa natin,
47:48.1
periodista ang kasanga natin,
47:52.1
conducive yung arrangement
47:54.1
sa malayang pamamahayag
47:56.1
kung merong ganyang mga
48:00.1
at nakararating sa Korte
48:05.1
yung mga salbahing yan.
48:10.1
I'm heartened by that, eh.
48:13.1
now, I am, ano, eh,
48:15.1
I count my victories, eh,
48:20.1
may tanong po dito,
48:21.1
very interesting, no?
48:23.1
kalo, ikaw unang sumagot dito.
48:24.1
May opinion din ako rito
48:25.1
pero feeling ko naman
48:26.1
baka magkakapareho tayo
48:27.1
nang iniisip dito, eh.
48:28.1
Tanong ng Eugene Keeler,
48:30.1
I wonder where this panel stands
48:31.1
on the issue of Aquino
48:33.1
Since many use that
48:34.1
as their whataboutism
48:36.1
regarding press freedom.
48:37.1
Eto yung ano, no,
48:38.1
ininimanda ni Cory
48:41.1
dahil sinulat niya
48:42.1
na nagtaguro sa ilalim ng kama
48:44.1
nung isang coup, no?
48:47.1
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
48:52.1
madali kasing mag-sympathize
48:57.1
she was under siege
48:59.1
and feeling niya siguro
49:03.1
like Louie Beltran
49:05.1
of literally hiding
49:08.1
during one of those
49:13.1
and that's why she sued
49:16.1
the defense to Louie Beltran
49:17.1
was that he was just,
49:19.1
you know, using a
49:20.1
figurative speech
49:22.1
which is entirely acceptable
49:25.1
I mean, you know,
49:26.1
if you knew Louie Beltran
49:30.1
I'm not exposing my age here
49:32.1
follow his column before
49:38.1
in the whole naman,
49:39.1
a responsible columnist
49:40.1
and a responsible editor
49:46.1
because binusaran nga si,
49:50.1
or pilarusahan siya
49:51.1
dahil may sinabi siya
49:52.1
na hindi nang gustuhan
49:57.1
this is what we say
49:58.1
na under the law,
49:59.1
meron kang recourse
50:00.1
para gawin yung tingin mo
50:04.1
or your rights were violated
50:06.1
meron kang recourse
50:09.1
Cory Aquino ever,
50:12.1
to stop the publication
50:14.1
as a result of that.
50:18.1
para ang lumalabas,
50:20.1
the franchise issue
50:24.1
using the nuclear option
50:26.1
because of the conduct
50:28.1
of two commentators
50:31.1
the company itself
50:33.1
mapupunta na rin ako
50:37.1
this is not a way
50:38.1
to handle criticism.
50:47.1
journalism reporting
50:48.1
by shutting them up
50:59.1
reluctantly agrees
51:02.1
Saka sa korte lang,
51:10.1
kung meron talagang
51:21.1
libel in this case.
51:22.1
Kailangan yun eh,
51:29.1
hindi ka naman malisioso,
51:31.1
pag sabi ka ng toto,
51:32.1
hindi ka naman malisioso,
51:35.1
okay pa rin yan eh,
51:37.1
ngayon kung malisioso ka,
51:38.1
hindi naman ngayon
51:41.1
eh paparusahan ka,
51:42.1
nadaling ka sa korte.
51:44.1
ipakita mo sa korte
51:45.1
na malisioso nga yung,
51:53.1
Gano'n naman yan eh.
51:59.1
hindi ko maalala kung bakit
52:00.1
ang unang yung pinag-prove,
52:05.1
ang unang dapat i-prove,
52:06.1
ruinable reputation.
52:07.1
May mga tao na hindi
52:09.1
ruinable ang reputation,
52:10.1
kahit anong gawin mo dyan eh,
52:12.1
pwede ko sabihin yan eh,
52:15.1
kailangan may maruwin na reputation eh.
52:16.1
Hindi na talaga eh.
52:22.1
yung libel of the dead,
52:24.1
does not apply to ano,
52:25.1
to the old man Marcos.
52:27.1
Maliwanag na ano yun eh.
52:29.1
Shown to have ano,
52:31.1
shown to have ano,
52:32.1
committed murder,
52:34.1
torture and plunder.
52:38.1
Kailangan talaga,
52:43.1
Vergel and Christian,
52:46.1
kanina about drawing the line.
52:47.1
I think that's important
52:50.1
press freedom advocates,
52:55.1
every media organization,
52:56.1
actually draw the line
52:57.1
for press freedom.
53:01.1
and I'm speaking here generally,
53:06.1
and then be silent about
53:12.1
that is not in any way
53:22.1
ano nga yung ano,
53:26.1
bad for the goose
53:28.1
What's good for the goose
53:29.1
is good for the press.
53:36.1
how do you then draw the line?
53:37.1
You have to draw the line
53:38.1
for press freedom.
53:39.1
You cannot defend
53:41.1
your freedom of expression,
53:47.1
and then say the next,
53:48.1
the next moment na,
53:50.1
but my rights were violated
53:51.1
so I don't care about
53:52.1
your press freedom.
53:53.1
I don't care about
53:54.1
your freedom of expression.
53:56.1
I don't think that's
53:58.1
a tenable position
53:59.1
for any journalist
54:03.1
or media advocate
54:08.1
it is not so difficult
54:21.1
or media organization
54:22.1
who can come together
54:28.1
on press freedom issues eh.
54:32.1
hindi mahirap sa'kin.
54:35.1
hiwalay ko agad ang MN,
54:37.1
Kung gagawa ko ng ganung ano,
54:39.1
drawing the line,
54:40.1
hiwalay ko yung SMNI.
54:43.1
Paliwanag sa'kin yun.
54:45.1
hindi ko sasabihin na,
54:48.1
bigyan ng kalayaan.
54:49.1
Basta hindi kita kasama,
54:51.1
basta hindi kita kasama.
54:52.1
That choice I can make.
54:54.1
Yun ang sinasabi ko lang.
54:58.1
para yung butuhan eh,
55:00.1
Pag ang gusto mo,
55:01.1
pag ang gusto natin,
55:03.1
isalba ang lahat ng mamamahayag,
55:05.1
hindi natin magagawa yan eh.
55:07.1
For the same reason
55:09.1
na hindi mo pwede isalba
55:11.1
ang 115 milyones na
55:15.1
sa itong bansa nito.
55:16.1
Mimili lang ako ng
55:21.1
na yung magkasama.
55:22.1
This is a personal ano,
55:24.1
Christian Caloya,
55:25.1
this is a personal position.
55:27.1
Please understand.
55:29.1
Pero yun ang sa'kin.
55:35.1
hindi ako masyadong mahihirapan
55:38.1
kung sino ang gusto kong kasama.
55:40.1
At kung sino ayaw kong kasama.
55:42.1
Parang Noah's Ark ka, no?
55:45.1
pag si Sir Virgil yung magiging Noah.
55:47.1
Sama ko man ni Caloy, ah.
55:50.1
Gano'n ang drawing the line eh.
55:52.1
gano'n ang drawing the line.
55:56.1
ang Maging Miller
55:59.1
yung gano'n alam naman
56:22.1
network, may paraan na gawin
56:24.3
yun. Pero yung tipong
56:25.8
ang pinakadalhin dyan kasi dito, yung tipong
56:28.2
tanggalan mo ng frankies,
56:29.8
it's like bombing their printing presses
56:32.1
if you're a newspaper.
56:34.4
That creates more problems,
56:36.2
not just for the outfit, but for
56:38.1
democracy as a whole.
56:40.5
Diyan ko rin kasi dadalhin yung
56:41.9
discussion. Ito yun, napapausapan to
56:44.0
ng mga journalist before.
56:45.5
Yung bang pagsasalita ni
56:47.6
former President Duterte, di ba meron siyang
56:49.9
programa sa SMNI, maraming
56:52.0
questionable na sinasabi siya ron.
56:54.0
Pero he also enjoys that right,
56:56.0
or that freedom to express himself.
56:58.7
Pero instead of, let's
57:02.2
the franchise, alam mo yung magandang
57:04.0
approach siya ganon. Huwag na na i-cover
57:05.9
or baka naman i-cover extensively,
57:08.4
pero i-fact check every step of the way.
57:10.2
Di ba? What do you think?
57:12.7
Oh definitely, I think.
57:14.8
Fact check or cover.
57:16.0
I don't think you cannot not cover the
57:18.0
presidency, regardless of how rotten the
57:20.0
person that's sitting there.
57:22.0
The way to do that is to cover
57:24.1
him, to cover the presidency
57:25.9
in a more responsible manner.
57:28.6
You know, more rigorous.
57:29.9
Hindi yung tipong... I mean, look,
57:32.4
this is not a shade on the Philippine
57:34.2
media about President
57:36.7
when he spoke with
57:39.9
Sarah Ferguson of ABC News of Australia and
57:42.0
said something, you know, talked about the
57:45.9
Marcos has stole, biglang naging
57:47.6
controversial bigla ang issue na ito.
57:49.4
Why are not... I'm not saying
57:52.0
journalists are doing that, pero
57:54.0
mukhang hindi masyadong
57:56.0
na napag-uusapan ito
57:58.0
within the Philippine media, yung mga
58:00.0
kabuktutan na ginawa ng mga Marcos dati.
58:02.0
Meron pa nga nag-komentaryo, rude daw yun eh.
58:07.0
Rude daw yung ginawa ni Sarah Ferguson eh.
58:12.0
At tingin ko tama lang, ano?
58:14.0
And we were supposed to show up.
58:19.0
Ano yung isa? Yung hard talk? Mas matindi yun.
58:21.8
Oo, yeah. Hard talk? Grabe yun.
58:24.8
At saka you may feel free to lie.
58:28.8
But you cannot escape the responsibility for it.
58:34.8
Ganun lang naman yun eh.
58:36.8
Yung kalayaan hanggang doon.
58:39.8
Kalayaan is a personal sense eh.
58:42.8
Ano ba? Akala mo, malaya ako eh. Di ba?
58:47.8
Na-test lang yan, baka sinampahan ka na ng kaso.
58:51.8
O kaya may mga ibang tao na sinwump ka na ng
58:56.8
kutakot-takot na criticism at sinabi sa'yo,
59:00.8
puro kagaguhan o kawalangyaan yung ginagawa mo.
59:06.8
Part of the press freedom yan eh.
59:09.8
Part of the deal.
59:12.8
Ganyan lang yan eh.
59:14.8
So kaya gusto ko, kaya sinasabi ko ngayon,
59:17.8
draw, yung ano, yung...
59:21.8
drawing the line between us and them.
59:24.8
Kasi ganun lang mangyayari. Ano masasabi niyan sa'yo?
59:27.8
Nung kabila, kung ikaw eh maliwanag sa'yo
59:31.8
na ang gustong mamangyari eh magkaroon ng kalayaan
59:35.8
na may responsibilidad. Di ba?
59:38.8
Paano ka matatalo diyan?
59:42.8
Di ba? So kaya yun ang gusto kong mangyari.
59:46.8
Kung ako lang talaga gusto kong mangyari.
59:49.8
Incidentally, no?
59:50.8
Siguro sa pagtatapos, hindi po ba kayo sa ating dalawang bisita, no?
59:53.8
Hindi ba kayo na-amaze or na-amuse doon sa mga sudden press freedom advocates na political figures?
60:01.8
Kinuari, si Vice President Sara Duterte, di ba?
60:04.8
Si na Harry Roque.
60:05.8
Naging vanguard sa press freedom eh in defending the franchise of SMNI na
60:10.8
siguro naman doon sa mga nanonood sa atin, no?
60:12.8
Malino naman po yung tindig namin tatlo dito, no?
60:15.8
Pinaglalaban yung prinsipyo mismo ng press freedom. Kahit sino pa yan, no?
60:21.8
Well, ang nga lang kasi dyan, wala naman problema kung pinaka bulok na tao i-invoke ang press freedom.
60:28.8
I mean, Harry Roque should be the last person to do that, you know?
60:32.8
Pero it's his right to do that.
60:35.8
And just because he's a rotten person doesn't mean we can violate his freedom to express himself.
60:43.8
But again, yung double standards na lumalabas dito,
60:47.8
ay yun ang isang dapat i-consider ng mga nakikita ko ngayon.
60:54.8
Tingnan din nila na just because SMNI ay merong ganitong sanction against sa kanila,
61:00.8
press freedom, press freedom lang. Okay, fine.
61:03.8
But gusto mo rin silang tanungin. Nasaan yung sinasabi niyang press freedom nang binanatan nilang ang Raptor?
61:08.8
Nasaan yung sinasabi niyang best freedom? Nasaan kayo?
61:10.8
Nung binubusalan ang bulatlat.com, ang Pinoy Weekly, at kung sino-sino pang mga media outlets na hindi ninyo nalaman.
61:15.8
So yung double standards, kailangan din natin punahin.
61:22.8
Hindi ka pwedeng magsabi na you respect press freedom dahil press freedom mo lang yung apektado.
61:28.8
Yung iba hindi. That's not how it works.
61:31.8
Ano yan? Convenient invocation of press freedom?
61:36.8
Malicious, tedious, cynical use of press freedom to advance their own political propaganda.
61:45.8
Ayan. Kaya Sir Virgel, bilang panghuli, ano ba?
61:49.8
Ako eh, sa akin nga eh, ano eh, basta ikaw ipaglalaban mo ang press freedom,
61:59.8
pero tatanggapin mo ang kaakibat na responsibilidad nun, sama tayo.
62:06.8
Ngayon kung gusto mo lang puro freedom, mag-isa ka na lang.
62:10.8
Ako simple lang yun.
62:12.8
Hindi ko kailangan.
62:15.8
Hindi ko kailangan kasama mo, di ba?
62:17.8
Ako ganun eh, during the line.
62:19.8
Kaya ako sumasama sa CMFR eh, kasi pare-pareho kami ng pananaw doon eh.
62:24.8
Ganun lang mga ano.
62:25.8
Kaya sumasama ko sa mga, kasi pa rin ako ng pananaw eh.
62:30.8
So in the end, ang tingin ko talaga, dapat magsama-sama.
62:33.8
Yung dapat magsama-sama.
62:35.8
Whether magsama-sama sa tama o magsama-sama sa mali.
62:41.8
Mas dapat magsama-sama.
62:43.8
At diyan naman makikita kung ano, kung anong klaseng laban ang laban ng mali at tama.
62:51.8
Ng totoo at hindi.
62:53.8
Doon mo lang makikita eh.
62:54.8
Parang hindi masyadong gumulok.
62:56.8
Linawin na natin.
62:59.8
So hindi lang ito usapin, hold the line Christian.
63:02.8
Draw the line lang rin talaga.
63:08.8
Okay, maraming salamat for your insights gentlemen.
63:11.8
Si Mr. Vergel Santos, tsaka si Mr. Caloy Conde.
63:14.8
Maraming maraming salamat sa inyo sa pagdalo sa ating programa ngayong gabi.
63:21.8
Salamat Christian.
63:25.8
Kita-kits tayo soon oh.
63:27.8
Nagkita kami recently ah.
63:29.8
Nakikita lang tayo sa mga events eh.
63:32.8
Tsaka ito nga pala Caloy ah.
63:33.8
Medyo konting reminder lang.
63:35.8
Pag magpo-post ka ng food photo, dapat pinapatikim.
63:41.8
The proof of the posting is in the eating.
63:46.8
Reminder lang ha?
63:48.8
Mali ang ginagawa mo na ganyan eh.
63:49.8
Yung pinapatakam mo kami.
63:50.8
Dapat tinetest lahat yan.
63:51.8
Dapat tinetest lahat yan.
63:54.8
Hindi naman sa pinagkakaisahan ka namin.
63:55.8
Pero yan ang tamang behavior.
63:59.8
Magandang gabi sa inyong dalawa.
64:05.8
Kasama natin si Caloy Conde tsaka si Mr. Vergel.
64:09.8
Si Caloy magaling magluto yan eh.
64:10.8
Kaya sabi ko, post ng post eh.
64:11.8
Ginugutom ako eh.
64:12.8
Dapat nagpapatikim yung niluluto yan.
64:14.8
Yan ang sinasabi ko.
64:18.8
Mahabang proseso pa yan.
64:19.8
So it remains to be seen kung yung mga senador ay mag-aagree dito sa gustong mangyari ng mababang
64:20.8
kapulungan, which is to revoke the franchise of SMNI.
64:21.8
Again, sa akin po.
64:22.8
Maraming salamat.
64:35.8
Which is to revoke the franchise of SMNI.
64:37.8
Again, sa akin po.
64:39.0
Maraming ginagawa ng SMNI that I do not agree, definitely.
64:43.6
For example, the red tagging nila tsaka yung mga questionable information na lumalabas sa
64:49.6
maraming pagkakataon.
64:50.8
Pero isa po sa mga worries ko rito tulad doon na kita natin ang panahon ng ABS-CBN franchise
64:56.9
ay mapabahihin ito.
64:59.0
Ngayon kasi pwedeng tama naging decision nila dahil talaga may violations pero ito ba talaga
65:04.9
yung first line of defense?
65:05.8
or first option na dapat gamitin to actually, siguro, to make them stop doing, for instance, red tagging.
65:20.3
Kasi nga, pag masyadong politicized din yung paggamit noong kapangyarihan ng Kongreso to grant and revoke legislative franchises,
65:31.9
eh saan po yan hihindo? Paano kung next time ma-offend naman yung speaker sa isang balita galing sa isang panibagong news organization
65:40.9
or news network na merong prangkisa, eh gagamitin ba uli yung kapangyarihan ng Kongreso para bawiin yun?
65:47.1
Yun lang po ang ano dyan. Medyo nakakatakot din.
65:49.9
Again, pwedeng tama yung decision na lang ngayon, pero where do they draw the line?
65:56.5
Yun po yung sinasabi ko dyan.
65:59.5
Kaya ingat-ingat din.
66:01.1
Of course, hindi naman natin pwedeng sabihin na pareho yung sitwasyon, strictly speaking, ng ABS-CBN tsaka ng, for instance, ng SMNI.
66:10.5
Kasi kung sinundan nyo naman po yung pagdinig ng Kongreso noon, eh ba't ba hindi nabigyan ng panibagong prangkisa yung ABS-CBN?
66:17.7
Eh napaka-simple lang naman, di ba?
66:19.8
Sinabi nung dating Pangulo, eh, tanggalin yung ano.
66:22.7
I would make sure na hindi kayo magkakaroon ng bagong prangkisa.
66:26.3
Eh di, syempre, sumunod yung mga alipores niya sa mababang kapulungan sa pangunguna.
66:30.4
Noon din, Speaker Alan Peter Caeta, no?
66:32.8
What the President wanted, the President got.
66:38.4
Ngayon, dito, syempre, iba yung nuancing dito.
66:41.2
Kasi ang unang nainis sa kanila, kung titignan natin yung sequence of events, eh bakit ba unang umaksyon yung House Committee on Legislative Franchises?
66:49.3
Eh kasi raw, may sinabi o pinakalat daw na fake news yung isang host ng SMNI against the Speaker tungkol sa travel expenses.
66:59.8
Kapag gano'n, pwede mo naman i-correct.
67:01.3
Kung yun lang naman yung kinakainis mo, i-correct mo.
67:04.9
Exaggerated dyan.
67:06.2
I-condemn mo in the strongest terms.
67:08.6
Pero, automatic ba?
67:10.5
Dapat, tanggalin mo ng prangkisa.
67:12.0
I mean, again, ah, this might be an unpopular opinion for many of you.
67:17.7
Pero, concerned lang ako rin sa prinsipyo na yun.
67:20.4
Paano kung sa susunod, kainisan naman, legitimate media organization na hindi na exactly nagpapakalat ng fake information,
67:27.8
hindi nang re-red tag.
67:29.4
Pero, kinainisan ng mga nakaupo dyan sa kongreso.
67:33.6
Yun yung binabanggit kanina ni na Kaloy na slippery slope.
67:44.5
Baka nagulantang yung mga trolls dito kanina, no?
67:47.8
May mga trolls dito kanina, eh.
67:49.8
Niyayari tayo, eh.
67:54.3
Eh, pinagtatanggol ko.
67:56.5
Tsaka pinagtanggol namin.
67:59.4
nakakainis, di ba?
68:00.9
Yung karapatan ng SMNI, oh.
68:04.6
Kasi may karapatan din yan, eh.
68:06.1
Kahit hindi nyo gusto, ano?
68:07.8
Nagulantang na ba kayo mga trolls?
68:10.0
Akala namin, ano eh?
68:11.2
Ba't ngayon parang pakaramdam namin pinagtatanggol kami?
68:14.6
Eh, kasi kayo, hindi kayo nag-iisip, eh.
68:16.6
Sinusunod yun yung script nyo, eh.
68:20.7
Magugulantang talaga kayo.
68:22.4
Okay, before we end, okay?
68:25.3
Ah, may mga babatiin po tayo.
68:28.1
Una po nating babatiin,
68:29.4
ay si Clint Almacin,
68:31.9
ang kanyang asawa ni si Marika
68:33.4
at ang kanilang anak, si Belle.
68:35.4
Ayan, maraming salamat sa'yo, Clint.
68:37.7
Kay Ma'am Marika, tsaka sa inyong anak na si Belle.
68:40.3
Maraming maraming salamat sa inyo.
68:43.1
Tapos binabati rin po natin si, ah,
68:45.9
Ian Gabriel Catambing.
68:49.3
Ayan, nag-message kasi sa akin yung kanyang kapatid,
68:51.7
si Glenn Catambing.
68:54.5
pwede po bang papirmahan yung mug plus padedicate po
68:57.2
sa inyo na kuya ko, ah, sa kuya niya,
69:00.2
Eh, late ko na basa.
69:02.8
So, pasensya na, ano,
69:07.1
Late ko na basa yung message niyo.
69:08.9
Eh, na-deliver na yung mug nila.
69:13.2
ito, nag-message din sa akin si Gracie Toledo.
69:16.3
Hi, Sir Christian.
69:17.3
Find niyo po ang 82-year-old father ko.
69:20.6
Matagal na po niya akong kinukulit.
69:22.7
Magpa-shoutout na.
69:23.8
Ayan, shoutout po kay Sir, ah,
69:26.7
ah, retired Colonel Dionisio.
69:33.2
from San Pedro, Laguna.
69:35.4
Wala raw siyang namimiss na podcast episode.
69:37.6
Sana mag-greet niyo.
69:38.5
Shannon, thank you and more power.
69:41.2
Maraming maraming salamat po, ah,
69:42.8
Sir Dionisio Alkalid Toledo
69:46.4
from San Pedro, Laguna.
69:47.8
Sir, maraming maraming salamat po.
69:49.2
Isang karangalan po
69:51.6
na nakikinig po kayo
69:53.7
dito po sa ating programa.
69:55.7
And then, I'd also like to greet,
69:56.9
ito, nag-message sa akin yung asawa ko kanina
69:58.8
because she was in a conference.
70:01.1
Ah, meron siya nakilala ng isang doktor,
70:03.2
si Dr. Richard Medina.
70:06.9
Ah, madalas din daw manood si, ah,
70:08.8
Dr. Richard Chu Medina.
70:11.4
Maraming maraming salamat, Dok.
70:12.8
Thank you for, ah,
70:14.8
for your support and for watching
70:19.1
And of course, binabati natin, regular viewer
70:21.0
and listener natin, si Ma'am Edna Malana.
70:24.2
Late ko na po nabasa yung message niya.
70:26.8
O, kamusta yung mga trolls dyan?
70:28.8
So, ah, kumakalag na ba yung ulo nyo?
70:31.5
Oo, kalaan nyo eh, no?
70:35.4
Ganyan kasi talaga pag ang pinaglalaban mo
70:37.1
yung tamang prinsipyo, diba?
70:42.5
a part of you, inisip mo,
70:44.0
dapat siyata hindi na ito mag-apply
70:45.4
kasi mali naman yung ginagawa nito eh.
70:47.2
Pero ganun talaga eh, may karapatan eh.
70:51.0
Si Kors Ropeta, maraming salamat
70:53.0
watching from, ah,
70:58.8
say, it's just a hobby.
71:01.1
Pabati naman ulit
71:02.4
ang pinakamagandang misis sa balat ng solar system
71:06.1
Nag-rank 1 siya sa ranking dito
71:08.1
pero rank 2 na-appoint.
71:09.8
Haha, congrats sa'yo, my love.
71:12.9
Hindi mo man lang binigay pangalan mo.
71:14.7
Binigay mo yung pangalan ng asawa mo si Angie.
71:16.8
O, congratulations Angie, ah.
71:18.9
I suppose, ang pangalan ng asawa mo
71:20.4
hindi naman it's just a hobby.
71:21.7
Bigyan mo yung pangalan mo
71:22.5
para ma-recognize naman natin.
71:25.0
Si Frey, ah, or Phillip Reta
71:28.9
Maraming salamat sa'yo.
71:33.2
O, si Rob C., maraming salamat sa'yo.
71:35.3
Si Francis Llaguno, ito.
71:37.5
Madalas nanonood ito.
71:38.6
Galing sa, ah, so from Taiwan.
71:40.5
Madalas siyang manood.
71:47.9
Meron na naman kasalbahihan
71:50.1
Question for the trolls.
71:51.7
Without looking, what does SMNI stand for?
71:55.0
Huwag daw kayong mag-google.
71:58.8
Nga pala, ito, kanina,
72:00.8
natuloy po yung aking interview
72:02.5
with our ambassador to Washington,
72:09.7
So, ipapalabas po natin yan bukas.
72:13.0
Facts First Convo.
72:15.5
Kaya, mahaba po yung araw ko kanina.
72:17.6
So, pinunta ko siya kanina
72:20.2
Alam niyo naman sa Pilipinas,
72:27.5
natuloy yung ating interview
72:29.5
Pakinggan niyo po.
72:30.7
Kung may time ko,
72:31.8
panoorin niyo bukas.
72:32.6
Papalabas po natin.
72:35.5
Maraming maraming salamat sa'yo.
72:41.1
Maraming salamat din po.
72:49.3
Maraming salamat din po.
72:55.0
Yung ating ambassador to
72:56.8
ambassador to Washington.
72:59.5
Ni President Ferdinand
73:00.5
Bambong Marcos Jr.
73:01.8
Siya yung ambassador natin
73:04.0
Siya rin yung ambassador
73:04.7
dun sa Washington
73:06.6
President Rodrigo Duterte.
73:14.8
Grabe si Dominador Narag.
73:20.4
Maraming salamat din sa'yo.
73:22.0
Madalas narurood yan
73:24.8
Maraming salamat po guys.
73:26.2
Kita kita po tayo bukas.
73:27.8
Maraming maraming salamat
73:30.0
Meron din tayong special episode.
73:34.4
Di ba usually weekends
73:35.3
wala tayong programa.
73:36.2
Pero this Saturday
73:37.0
we have a special episode.
73:38.9
I-announce ko po bukas
73:39.9
kung sino yung ating
73:40.7
special guest for that
73:44.3
Magandang araw po sa inyo.
73:45.3
Magandang gabi po.
73:46.1
Thank you very much for watching.
73:47.4
Ako po si Christian Esguerra.
73:58.6
Thank you for watching.
