00:34.1
Ito yung mga gumawa ng Game of Thrones, no?
00:37.4
Like Maoist culture?
00:39.1
Oo, the Maoist culture.
00:42.3
Panoorin mo, nagbulat lang ako na.
00:43.7
Panoorin ko na yung unang episode.
00:48.4
No problem, definitely.
00:50.0
I'll check it out.
00:51.0
Sige, habang nag...
00:53.4
Sige, I'm sure...
00:54.7
Never mind, baka may sasabihin ako mapamahal.
00:58.3
Of course, I mean, one of the beauty of going around right now
01:02.8
is every time nasa isang capital ako,
01:04.8
parang BBM was just there a few days earlier
01:07.8
or is about to go back again.
01:10.1
So, nung nasa Washington DC.
01:12.9
So, ngayon ako, of course, later sa Germany.
01:15.0
And, you know, I had a chance with some other folks
01:18.7
to have a proper chat with Olaf Scholz, their chancellor.
01:22.7
And apparently, the guy is interesting.
01:25.0
In a sense, I always hear from Germans that he's not charismatic.
01:28.0
I think he's that.
01:28.4
But apparently, when he's around medyo intellectual people,
01:31.4
sobrang comfortable.
01:32.4
So, obviously, I cannot share the content of the conversation.
01:35.2
Pwede pa ikaw, nakausap mo.
01:36.5
Ako, na-meet ko siya.
01:37.3
Pero, selfie-selfie lang kami.
01:39.2
I mean, he really took time, ha?
01:41.8
And I was very surprised kasi he just had arrived from Jerusalem and Amman
01:46.0
after very tough conversations with, of course, you know who, diba?
01:50.1
And he stayed until 9 p.m.
01:52.0
So, dinner namin was 6 p.m., 9 p.m.
01:53.9
Three hours yung conversation.
01:56.2
And naging intense, ha?
01:58.2
Especially yung mga ibang kasama namin.
01:59.7
Talaga, they raised big issue, very sensitive.
02:01.7
Ako naman, more in terms of how to move forward.
02:04.8
Especially sa Pilipinas.
02:05.8
Kasi alam mo naman, Ronald, ang line natin.
02:07.8
It's all good for the Philippines to get statements in support of our stance on West Philippine Sea.
02:12.9
But at the end of the day, we need capacity building.
02:15.3
We need strategic investments, diba?
02:17.3
And the way I explain strategic investment, it's like talent scouting.
02:20.9
Diba kung nagka-talent scout ka,
02:22.7
you don't necessarily go for that kid who's right away ripe and has everything.
02:26.8
Sometimes, you go for that kid who's right away ripe and has everything.
02:27.5
Sometimes, you go for that kid who's right away ripe and has everything.
02:27.5
You go for the one na medyo kulang, medyo hilaw.
02:30.2
But you know that kung bibigyan mo ng chance to invest in this person, eventually...
02:34.1
Well, that's the story of Ronaldo and Messi in many ways.
02:36.6
So, ang Pilipinas, obvious may problematize sa corruption, regularity, red tape.
02:42.3
But we are a frontline state.
02:44.0
We're a very important state.
02:45.1
We're the fastest growing economy in Southeast Asia.
02:47.0
And I felt now with Europeans, there's a lot of sympathy for us.
02:51.3
Yes, you have a Marcos again there.
02:52.9
But at least there's an idea that the Philippines as a nation is fighting back.
02:56.8
It's making up time for the time lost under Duterte.
03:00.9
I just felt, Ronald, the respect na...
03:06.6
Alam mo rin yan, panon ni Aquino rin.
03:08.2
Hindi tayo sineryosa as much as we should have been taken seriously noon.
03:11.6
Parang taken for granted ng Pilipinas noon.
03:13.7
But now, and obviously it's not because of Marcos.
03:16.4
It's because there's a belated realization na itong Philippines, we shouldn't forget them.
03:21.4
And you know, my conference actually in Germany was about Global South.
03:28.9
And then ako yung kinuha nila from Philippines.
03:30.6
So, actually, konti lang kami from East Asia.
03:32.4
Dalawa lang yata kami.
03:35.2
And for me, I feel good na they consider us as one of the rising middle powers
03:39.7
or rising forces in Global South.
03:41.7
And at the same time, I told them, here in the Philippines,
03:43.5
we feel more Western than ASEAN and all.
03:46.5
But you know, so what I'm saying, Ronald, is nasa sweet spot na tayo.
03:51.9
Eto na, we're in this moment.
03:53.4
So, as much as we make fun of BBM's travel and all of that,
03:56.6
which sometimes is really, lalo yung mga Formula One,
03:59.6
malapit na mag-Taylor Swift yan,
04:01.6
I see the value of him engaging the rest of the world
04:06.3
because I think the rest of the world wants to do things
04:08.3
that they were not able to do nung panahon ng Duterte.
04:10.5
Ikaw, anong baso mo dito?
04:12.1
Eh, mahalaga yung sinasabi mo na yung meeting mo na yan,
04:15.0
na sweet spot-spot tayo at pinapansin na tayo ngayon.
04:18.1
Dahil nung June 2022, nung pumunta ako sa Germany,
04:22.0
na-meet ko yung head ng ruling party, si Saskia Esken,
04:26.6
at co-chairman niya, si Schultz, yung chancellor,
04:30.5
at nagsalita ko sa German parliament, sa Bundestag,
04:34.3
nandun yung lahat ng political parties,
04:36.3
from the left to the right, yung AFD.
04:38.9
First time ko na-meet yung AFD,
04:40.6
na ngayon ay lumalakas sa Germany, yung mga kung ano yan.
04:44.5
So, bago ako nagsimula magsalita,
04:49.6
parang kung ano sila eh, restless sila,
04:52.2
parang dumalo lang sila to comply dun sa imbitasyon,
04:55.4
siguro sinabihan sila,
04:56.6
para nung kanilang mga party leaders,
04:58.1
nung kanilang institute,
04:59.1
o makinig kayo rito, et cetera, et cetera.
05:01.1
Pero wala yung kanilang attention dun sa topic ko,
05:05.7
which is the South China Sea.
05:07.7
Until I pounced upon a tactical opportunity to get their attention.
05:12.9
Sinimulan ko yung aking speech by saying that
05:16.9
the South China Sea is the next Ukraine.
05:19.9
O yun, lahat nakikinig.
05:21.9
Of course, it's not accurate.
05:23.9
Of course, it's not precise.
05:26.6
Pero you got their attention.
05:28.6
Ibig sabihin, kinakailangan ko palang ganung gimmick
05:30.6
para makuha ang kanilang attention.
05:32.6
Dahil nga, malahayong malayo sa kanila yung mundo natin.
05:36.6
Kaya, two years after, sabi mo nga, we're now in a sweet spot.
05:41.6
Ngayon, yung mga friends ko sa Germany,
05:44.6
nagpapadala sa akin ng mga clippings galing sa Der Spiegel,
05:49.6
dahil nasa headline yung ating atin ito, Christmas Convoy sa Ayungin.
05:55.1
Ibig sabihin, lumalabas na tayo.
05:56.4
All over the world.
05:58.4
Sorry, akala ko andiyon yung mga pictures ni BBM with his Royce Royce.
06:03.4
Nadalatay, hindi pinapansin.
06:05.4
Ngayon, everybody knows about the West Philippine Sea.
06:08.4
They're using the term West Philippine Sea, hindi lang South China Sea.
06:12.4
Everybody knows atin ito na isang ragtag group ng mga civil society
06:19.4
na nagsama-sama last October at bumiyahe last December.
06:24.4
At ngayon, balak na naman bumiyahe sa Scarborough.
06:27.4
So, parang in a few months, biglang nagmamarka na tayo.
06:31.4
Not just because of the trips of BBM.
06:33.4
Kung hindi, people are noticing itong part na ito ng ating mundo.
06:38.4
Kaya, magandang segue ito sa ating usapan ngayon dito sa episode neto.
06:43.4
Okay, this is where medyo ninenervused ako kasi may kasama ako from another Asian country.
06:51.4
Actually, kaibigan ko ito.
06:52.4
And who knows, he may end up as the next foreign minister of this country.
06:56.4
And we had a lot of conversation about things.
06:58.4
Parang ang position nila ang layo sa atin sa Pilipinas.
07:03.4
Which is generally stable ang situation sa South China Sea.
07:06.4
China is a huge source of trade and investment.
07:09.4
Which in their case is kind of realistic, right?
07:12.4
And in fairness naman ba ito?
07:14.4
Kaibigan nga ito.
07:15.4
So, parang ang stance nila is naintindihan namin ng Pilipinas ganito ang situation nila.
07:19.4
Pero parang unique daw yung situation natin.
07:21.4
And because we have US ally.
07:23.4
Now, having said that, ako naman ang worry ko dito is baka mag-overcompensate dun sa mga kakulangan ni Digong.
07:30.4
In a sense that, okay, maganda naman mag-stand up sa China.
07:34.4
Mag-assert ng ating sovereign rights.
07:36.4
And ang kagandahan ng mga alaman at saka mga Europeans that have dealt with, the British, the French,
07:41.4
is they also understand we middle powers or emerging middle powers have to cooperate more.
07:46.4
Ang concern ko dito Ronald, correct me if I'm wrong is,
07:49.4
I mean, there will be balikatan exercises in Batanes.
07:52.4
Huge movements happening across the north of the Philippines.
07:57.4
Yeah, and I'm hearing the Americans may put some very high level weapon systems there.
08:02.4
I was just talking kanina to someone who's very, very informed this morning.
08:05.4
Jet lag ako inos. I need to do this.
08:09.4
Now, I understand the explanation.
08:11.4
The explanation is, it's just a matter of time before China wants to do something crazy.
08:16.4
So, we have to go strong against it.
08:18.4
By bringing in as much help and all.
08:20.4
Ang worry ko lang dito Ronald, and probably this is the progressive in me,
08:24.4
after all, right?
08:26.4
Is baka naman we swing too hard in the right other direction.
08:29.4
And this will trap us.
08:31.4
Or at least limit our options.
08:33.4
Because I still want the Philippines to fight for Philippines national interest.
08:36.4
And not be overly tethered to the strategic calculus of another country
08:42.4
who may soon have a Donald Trump in charge.
08:44.4
I'm just saying, right?
08:47.4
It's more than 15% chance na manalo si Trump next year.
08:50.4
So, do you want to be militarily tethered to that kind of politics, right?
08:56.4
Well, meron kang tatlong polls ngayon.
08:59.4
Yung isang poll, ito yung gawin natin parang,
09:05.4
kung ano ito, parang isang noodle soup.
09:09.4
Yung tatlong magkakaibang issue, ipaghalo-halo natin.
09:13.4
Una, yung usapin ng West Philippine Sea.
09:16.4
Yung ating victory sa UNCLOS.
09:18.4
Yung pagbubuo ng artificial islands sa ating EEZ.
09:22.4
At yung plano na paalisin tayo totally doon sa Ayungin, Sierra Madre, sa BRP Sierra Madre,
09:30.4
sa Scarborough, Bajo de Masinloc, Recto, Mischief Bank.
09:33.4
Totally, tanggalin tayo dyan.
09:35.4
At talagang lagyan nila ng wall ng artificial islands.
09:39.4
Yan yung ating issue na kinukan nga.
09:42.4
Yung isang issue naman ay yung freedom of navigation.
09:47.4
Sabi nga ni BBM doon sa trip niya sa Germany,
09:51.4
60% of global trade passes through here.
09:54.4
Hindi naman totoo yun. Siguro mga 40 or 250 at most ng global trade.
10:01.4
Ronald, baka may ibang trade na hindi natin alam. May under...
10:06.4
Enough for the whole world to take notice and to care.
10:11.4
Atikatlo yung Taiwan.
10:13.4
As far as I know, we still recognize the one China policy.
10:17.4
Ang nagbago ay yung strategic ambiguity ni Kissinger ng Americans ay hindi na ambiguous.
10:25.4
They will defend Taiwan militarily kahit one China policy pa rin yung kanilang recognition dyan.
10:34.4
So ito, naghahalo-halo.
10:36.4
As far as we're concerned, dapat hindi maghalo.
10:40.4
Pinayagan natin yung halimbawa yung EDCA.
10:42.4
Para sa usapin ng West Philippine Sea.
10:47.4
To some extent, freedom of navigation.
10:50.4
Pero primarily, West Philippine Sea.
10:52.4
Dahil sobrang dehado tayo naman.
10:56.4
Sobrang dehado tayo vis-a-vis the biggest navy in the world.
11:01.4
And the second most powerful superpower in the world.
11:05.4
Yan yung kuha natin.
11:07.4
Pero ayaw din natin maging dependent sa kanila.
11:11.4
Ang kinukulang natin in a worst case scenario.
11:14.4
Halimbawa, durugin yung Sierra Madre.
11:17.4
Halimbawa, ay talagang totally maglagay ng wall of artificial islands sa ating EEZ or even sa border ng ating sovereign territory.
11:29.4
Ay mahalaga na mayroong mga bansa na willing tumulong sa atin.
11:39.4
Not necessarily to go to war for us.
11:42.4
Pero at least magbigay ng pressure dito sa second most powerful superpower na nagiging aggressor natin.
11:51.4
So yun yung kuha natin.
11:53.4
Pero ibang usapin yung Taiwan.
11:56.4
The last time I looked, malinaw sa ating konstitusyon na we denounce war as an instrument of foreign policy.
12:07.4
Kaya, halimbawa, kung may maglalanding sa...
12:11.4
Halimbawa, merong dumating sa Batanes last month at ina-explore na magbuo ng kampo yan.
12:19.4
Kahit wala yan sa EDCA.
12:21.4
Eh, dapat naman tutulan natin dyan.
12:23.4
Dahil clearly, yan ay for the Taiwan issue.
12:26.4
At para yan ay mangyari, kailangan niyang pagdebatihan.
12:30.4
Kailangan niyang pagtalunan.
12:32.4
At kailangan niyang pagpasyahan ng both houses of congress.
12:36.4
Hindi yan pwedeng gawin unilaterally ng defense establishment, ng security establishment.
12:42.4
Hindi yan pwedeng decisionan simply by the president.
12:46.4
Mahabang proseso yan.
12:48.4
Siyempre, nakakomplicate yan because we have almost 200,000 OFW sa Taiwan.
12:55.4
Ibang usapin pa yun.
12:57.4
Pero hindi pwedeng paghaluin yan like a noodle soup.
13:02.4
Na lahat yan ay magkakadikiran.
13:06.4
Kailangan meron din silang separation.
13:10.4
In a compartmentalized approach.
13:14.4
Dahil ngayon kasi pinaghalo-halo na eh.
13:16.4
Pinaghalo-halo na.
13:18.4
Before we know it, we may be sleepwalking into a war we never decided on or where we never discussed even.
13:28.4
Yun yung problema.
13:30.4
Kung pupunta tayo sa ganyang klaseng fundamental na issue ng foreign policy,
13:33.4
Kung pupunta tayo sa ganyang klaseng fundamental na issue ng foreign policy,
13:35.4
At the very least, kailangan ma-process natin as a nation.
13:39.4
Nasa ngayon, definitely hindi.
13:41.4
My whole of nation approach. Not to mention,
13:43.4
It's one thing for the president to make the right decision in peacetime.
13:46.4
But is this the kind of president who can step up to the plate if things go a little bit crazy?
13:52.4
That's the other thing.
13:53.4
Does Marcus Junior have the temperament if talagang lumaban ng China?
13:58.4
It doesn't have to even be a war.
14:00.4
It could be some major sabotage activity.
14:03.4
Infrastructure attacks.
14:04.4
Infrastructure attacks.
14:06.4
China can respond in many ways.
14:08.4
Is this president ready for that?
14:10.4
Or is he going to rely on Americans to fight back against all of these things?
14:14.4
Yun yung inayong sinasabi ko.
14:15.4
There's nothing wrong with being right.
14:17.4
But if you're going to go down the heroic journey, make sure you can be heroic when the challenge comes.
14:23.4
Tulad ngayon, yung parating nabalikatan will be in a low cost.
14:27.4
Ibig sabihin talagang hindi yan usapin lang ng West Philippine Sea.
14:33.4
At the very least, pag-usapan natin. Pagdibatihan natin.
14:37.4
Labasa ko na lang sa news.
14:39.4
Yung next balikatan with France and the US ay nasa Ilocos.
14:46.4
Hindi ko alam kung bakit ang West Philippine Sea yung pupuntahan doon.
14:51.4
Pero kung hindi, definitely Taiwan yan.
14:54.4
Definitely Taiwan yan.
14:56.4
Tapos ang alam ko, mayroon ng mga pumunta sa Batanes several weeks ago.
15:04.4
It's not even, walang ed ka dyan.
15:08.4
So, what is that for?
15:10.4
Well, nakira natin amantago yung dalawa, tatlong Chinese research vessel na nandun sa ating eastern seaboard.
15:21.4
Sig-zagging. Hindi yan innocent passage.
15:25.4
Clearly, minamap nila yung ating eastern seaboard.
15:30.4
Not only for natural resources, but probably for war.
15:34.4
For military purposes.
15:36.4
Kaya ayoko na bigla na lang magising tayo na nasa gera na tayo.
15:44.4
But yung nga, Rural, again, it doesn't have to be a war.
15:47.4
It could be a situation whereby dahil mainis ang China, dahil hindi niya masuguran ng Taiwan, dahil ang ipit na yung situation.
15:53.4
Ang gagawin nila, titirahan nila ang Pilipinas just to show their tantrum.
15:58.4
Di ba? Kasi dahil we think eh.
15:59.4
Wars happen most of the time because of accidents.
16:05.4
Because of accidents.
16:07.4
Or short of war, right? China is a master of gray zones.
16:12.4
So, they could still hurt us in many ways, di ba?
16:14.4
Short of a war situation.
16:16.4
Yun na lang sinasabi ko eh.
16:17.4
Because if you look at the upcoming summit of BBM, Shishida, and Biden in White House, a lot of that is gonna be about Taiwan.
16:24.4
Obviously, it's not just South China Sea.
16:26.4
Now, I understand that there has to be preparation.
16:28.4
Because bakit ang mga Chinese nandun din sa Philippine Sea, sa Aurora, and all?
16:32.4
Because yun ang dadaanan ng mga Amerikano if ever mag-intervene sila.
16:36.4
So, Chinese want to essentially close down the highway.
16:39.4
Pagpatuloy lang ako, Big R. Yan yung isang poll.
16:42.4
Yung isang poll naman ay totally, totally huwag tayong sumama dyan.
16:49.4
Totally magsara tayo.
16:51.4
Totally huwag nating iprovoke yung China.
16:55.4
Which is naman very pro-China.
16:57.4
Diba? Very pro-China naman.
16:59.4
Parang mag-demilitarize tayo kahit wala tayong i-demilitarize.
17:06.4
Dahil wala naman tayong militarize.
17:07.4
Wala kang leverage.
17:08.4
Wala kang leverage.
17:10.4
So, talagang iniiwang mong vulnerable yung ating mga frontliners.
17:14.4
Ating Coast Guard, yung ating fishermen, et cetera.
17:18.4
At talagang halos binibigay mo na sa China yung buong West Philippine Sea which is bigger than our landmass.
17:24.4
Which is perhaps richer than our entire landmass.
17:28.4
Masyado namang cop-out yan.
17:30.4
Naniwala ka man lang banat or criticism sa China.
17:34.4
Nakita ko yung mga statements nung ilan natin mga kaibigan.
17:37.4
Wala man lang one sentence criticizing yung aggression ng China.
17:43.4
Wala man lang one sentence criticizing yung pag-build nila ng artificial islands within our EEZ.
17:50.4
Yan naman yung isang poll.
17:52.4
Or pro forma lang. If they mention it, it's just to say lang may sinangabi sila.
17:56.4
Meron naman tayong third poll na hindi naman magpo-fold simply dyan sa dalawang poll na yan.
18:04.4
Yes, kailangan natin ng tulong ng mundo but we have to rely first and foremost sa ating sariling strength.
18:11.4
Hindi pa nga natin na-o-organize ang ating mamamayan.
18:14.4
Hindi pa nga natin na-o-organize yung ating civil society.
18:17.4
Doon muna tayo mag-focus.
18:19.4
At yun nga yung purpose.
18:20.4
Doon nga yung purpose sana nitong civilian convoy, the first of its kind.
18:25.4
Para sabihin na hindi naman necessarily na-armed tayo para i-claim natin na itong West Philippine Sea ay atin.
18:34.4
Hindi naman kinakailangan tayo maging armed para protectahan yung ating fishermen at yung ating civilian coast guard at supportahan sila.
18:42.4
Hindi naman natin kinakailangan maging pro-US para gawin ito.
18:47.4
Yun naman lang sinasabi natin.
18:49.4
Kaya kailangan pang palakasin yung ganitong klaseng pole.
18:54.4
Hindi lamang para maging fulcrum dito sa mga antagonistic poles na sinusubukan to get at each other's neck.
19:03.4
Kung hindi, para makita na most Pilipinos nandito are peace-loving pero at the same time hindi duwag.
19:11.4
Critical sa China.
19:14.4
Pero hindi naman.
19:17.4
Pero hindi naman nagu-joke ng gera.
19:21.4
Nationalistic but peaceful.
19:24.4
So kinakailangan mas strengthen yung ganitong klaseng pole.
19:28.4
Para hindi lang tayo mahulog doon sa dalawang pole.
19:31.4
Yun lang naman sinasabi ko.
19:34.4
Thank you very much, Ronald.
19:36.4
I think we have covered a lot.
19:38.4
So exactly on time natin tinatapos ito.
19:40.4
I'm just glad that we look at all of these angles.
19:43.4
Kasi yun nga ang tendency ng tao is to think of things binary.
19:46.4
O saan tayo tataya.
19:48.4
But there's always a better way.
19:49.4
As Buddha said, there's always the middle path, right?
19:53.4
So that was always my guiding principle.
19:56.4
The sound of one hand clapping.
19:59.4
So my point is we always have this tendency of wild swings between some extremes.
20:08.4
Kasi ang isang fear ko Ronald is dahil concerned ng mga ibang grupo is baka makabalik ang mga Dutertes 2020.
20:15.4
Dutertes 2028 or whatever.
20:17.4
I-forward deploy na nila lahat ngayon kay BBM.
20:20.4
Do you get what I'm saying?
20:21.4
Like hindi tayo sigurado kung tatagal ito.
20:24.4
Like you know, use it or lose it, right?
20:27.4
Parang andiyan na si BBM.
20:28.4
Lagay na natin lahat ang ilagay natin doon para kahit manalo si Sarah hindi niya matanggal lahat yan.
20:33.4
Do you get what I'm saying?
20:34.4
So ang fear ko dito is baka mag-over-forward deploy itong mga Western allies and partners.
20:40.4
And to be honest, I'm not sure if BBM is the best guy to make sure of.
20:44.4
You get what I'm saying?
20:46.4
Like that's my fear na to ensure against a potential return of a pro-China faction in Philippine politics,
20:52.4
they will go like 100 over 10, right?
20:56.4
Instead of steady, slow, careful, calibrated.
21:01.4
Kaya Big R, dapat yung foreign policy natin mas diversified eh.
21:07.4
Dahil lahat naman ito may kanya-kanyang national agenda.
21:11.4
Kahit kasama sa Quad ang India,
21:13.4
may ibang agenda yan, no?
21:15.4
Hindi yan automatically susunod sa US.
21:18.4
Kahit nag-scale up yung relasyon ng US at saka Vietnam,
21:22.4
yung Vietnam ay hindi yan papailalim sa kahit anong superpower, no?
21:27.4
Very independent yan.
21:29.4
Ganun din ang Indonesia.
21:32.4
So kailangan yung ating foreign policy ay hindi lamang monopoly ng isa.
21:40.4
Kailangan talaga very diversified.
21:43.4
At kailangan natin ng mga bagong diplomats na nauunawaan ito.
21:50.4
Sabi mo nga, hindi lang binary.
21:53.4
Dahil karamihan sa ating mga diplomats ang training pa rin,
21:56.4
na-train sila sa isang binary world.
22:02.4
At dyan sana mag-scale up ang civil society.
22:08.4
Dahil hindi tayo kaagad ma-impluensyahan ng dalawang polls eh.
22:14.4
Yung ating history, yung ating tradition, yung ating culture,
22:17.4
at to a great extent, even our ideology,
22:20.4
ay make us less vulnerable than sa kanyang klaseng binary polls.
22:28.4
Yeah, I completely agree.
22:29.4
I mean, although I would disagree with the example of Vietnam, India, and Indonesia
22:33.4
because none of them have alliance with the US, right?
22:35.4
So I'd rather look at the example of South Korea or Germany
22:38.4
who are US treaty allies or US allies, but they can say no.
22:42.4
They're allies who can say no.
22:43.4
I mean, we saw that during Trump, di ba?
22:46.4
No, we're not gonna follow you, Trump.
22:48.4
Inis na inis si Trump sa kanya dahil doon.
22:50.4
So I think, of course, we're not at that level in terms of capacity,
22:53.4
but that should be the target.
22:55.4
We should be allies, but allies who can say no.
22:58.4
Kaya nga sabi ko, everyone talks about the risking from China.
23:01.4
I said we should also risk from Trump if ever he comes back.
23:04.4
So I appreciate actually you...
23:06.4
What I mean, what I mean, Big R, ay...
23:10.4
Itong mga bansang ito ay mas strengthen natin yung relasyon natin sa kanila.
23:15.4
Yun yung ibig ko sabihin.
23:16.4
Yung South Korea and Germany.
23:19.4
Ano yung Japan, South Korea, matagal na relasyon natin sa kanila because of the US.
23:27.4
India, Vietnam, no?
23:30.4
Turkey, di ba? Turkey is a US ally.
23:33.4
To some extent, Europe.
23:34.4
Dahil ang Europe naman kasi hindi ganun ka-active dito sa South China Sea since forever.
23:39.4
Ngayon lang sila uli pumupunta dito.
23:41.4
So yun yung sinasabi ko na dapat nating strengthen.
23:44.4
Maliban pa dun sa mga kasama na sa ambit ng US.
23:49.4
Salamat, Sir Ronald.
23:50.4
Mukhang hindi lang puso kailangan talaga.
23:53.4
Pasensya na sa sobrang daldal natin.
23:55.4
But hindi naman kaya jet lag ako in all.
23:57.4
I said I'm not gonna miss this chance for us to have this conversation.
24:00.4
I hope nakikita ng taosan galing itong passion natin dalawa.
24:04.4
Hindi kami nagdadaldal dito ng one hour, two hours, three hours.
24:07.4
Dahil lang gusto lang namin magdaldal.
24:09.4
No, we really feel a sense of urgency.
24:11.4
Both internationally because I think there's a lot of opportunity.
24:14.4
But there's also a lot of risk here.
24:16.4
But also domestically because we think a lot of things that should have been done na common sense hindi na nagawa.
24:20.4
And of course, Ronald, you and I are aficionados of German politics.
24:24.4
And you know how organized they are in Germany.
24:27.4
I mean the day na nagdumating ako sa hotel ko.
24:30.4
So I stayed in Saadlon near the Brandenburg.
24:34.4
So it's just next to the Russian Embassy.
24:35.4
Ang haba ng pila next to that.
24:37.4
I thought like Taylor Swift concert.
24:39.4
And someone said, that's a protest to disrupt the elections of Russia.
24:43.4
And Navalny, the wife of Navalny was actually there.
24:46.4
A few hours just before I came, I saw her picture kasi I followed her on Twitter.
24:49.4
Oh, itong linya to kasi I went there.
24:51.4
So you know like they're constantly fight and contest for things.
24:56.4
Kasi sa Germany, especially the progressives and all, they don't take anything for granted.
25:00.4
They had to fight against Nazis.
25:01.4
Now they have to fight against, I don't know, alternative for Deutschland.
25:04.4
They have to fight against all sorts of crazy stuff.
25:07.4
So they never said, oh tapos na, nagawa na namin.
25:10.4
Berlin Wall came down, happy, let's go.
25:12.4
No, they were never like that.
25:13.4
Every year, every month, they fight for it.
25:15.4
And I was just hoping, sana we have a little bit of that, you know, German dedication.
25:20.4
And the reason I say this, I'm surprised.
25:22.4
And you correct me if I'm wrong, Ronald.
25:24.4
My sense is, Pinoy was a aficionado also of German politics.
25:27.4
I was telling some of my German friends, I said, actually Merkel.
25:30.4
I think medyo in-idol ni Aquino si Merkel.
25:33.4
I mean, I love Bismarck.
25:34.4
I mean, Bismarck is my idea of the ultimate authoritarian.
25:37.4
Like, Lee Kuan Yew is just like a baby of Bismarck.
25:41.4
So, I don't know.
25:42.4
I mean, siguro, it's easy to dismiss you and me of expecting too much.
25:46.4
Pero hindi ko naman sinabi mag-Germany tayo ng 10 out of 10.
25:49.4
Because the circumstances are different.
25:50.4
Pero kaya natin, yung kalahatan ng mobilization,
25:53.4
yung the way they're fighting for their democracy,
25:56.4
they never take their democracy for granted.
25:58.4
That's why I appreciate about Germans,
26:00.4
sorry, more than Americans or some of the other people, right?
26:03.4
At bago tayo magtapos, gusto ko lang i-clarify,
26:07.4
na hindi lang kami dito passionate ni Richard.
26:10.4
Meron pa mga ibang bagay na passionate ni kami.
26:13.4
Ayan na naman, okay.
26:15.4
MTR, sabi ko, the moment na ganyan ka, sabi ko, ito na.
26:28.4
Baka kasi sabihin nila puro cognitive lang tayo eh.
26:31.4
We are renaissance men.
26:33.4
We are renaissance men.
26:36.4
No, thank you to the real R na big R.
26:40.4
And salamat sa lahat naman nang kinik sa atin.
26:42.4
Wow, medyo malaki yung live natin.
26:44.4
Mga 1,500 live time sa hour.
26:46.4
So, I'm pretty proud.
26:48.4
Gusto nila yung drama natin.
26:51.4
Thank you very much, Sir Ronald.
26:54.4
And hopefully catch up soon.
26:56.4
And let's organize more in person also for summer naman sana.
27:00.4
Medyo malamig-lamig.
27:01.4
Kili tayo ng Tagaytay or bagay kasi mainit.
27:04.4
Ako sa Cruz, sa Easter.
27:07.4
God bless and talk to you soon.
