We brought in an LGBTQ+ catholic and a straight catholic to meet and talk with each other through different activities. FOLLOW THEM! RJ - https://www.instagram.com/nvrenejade Marty - https://www.instagram.com/martyhitosis ________________________________________________ WANT TO HAVE YOUR OWN PHOTOSHOOT? CHECK OUT THIS SELF-SHOOT STUDIO! https://www.instagram.com/studiopersona.ph/ https://studiopersonaxrecreate.youcanbook.me/ Use our special code "RECCREATESP10" for 10% discount! WANT OUR MERCH? CHECK OUT OUR OFFICIAL STORE! https://shopee.ph/reccreate WANT TO COLLABORATE? EMAIL US! reccreatestudios@gmail.com ABOUT REC•CREATE This channel stars your ordinary Filipino and their more than ordinary personalities through fun and honest videos. FOLLOW US ON SOCIAL MEDIA! Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram! DON'T FORGET TO SUBSCRIBE! https://www.youtube.com/c/RecCreate

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In your experience, how have you felt excluded from the Catholic Church?

Straight Catholics experience God in their usual way.

And then the LGBTQIA plus Catholics experience God in their own way.

Parang bahala kayo.

Exactly!

Hi, I'm Marty and I am a straight Catholic.

Hello, my name is Russell Justin Pamo but you can call me RJ for short.

And I identify as gay and I am Roman Catholic.

I would describe myself as like above average Catholic.

I would say I have a pretty strong relationship with God.

I think that my SOGI affected my religion to the point wherein I am now a non-practicing Catholic.

Just because you're not practicing religion doesn't mean that you've lost your faith.

I have my own understanding of how God interacts in my life.

Growing up, I came from a Catholic school.

And I go to Mass every day.

So it's basically all I know.

I've been technically finding God in all things.

And instead of finding God in prayer, sometimes I find Him in just sheer silence.

Sometimes I just find Him in whenever I see good happening.

The biggest thing I think is how they're able to reconcile their own experience,

like their own personal experience, their truth, with what the Catholic Church teaches and believes in.

I'm a Christian.

I'm already kind of curious to see how much evolution has happened in terms of how a practicing traditional Catholic would think.

So I guess it's like a litmus paper of how far we've come or how still backwards we are.

Hi, I'm Marty.

Hello, I'm RJ.

RJ.

I think an assumption because of how the gays are portrayed in the media, like flamboyant.

You guys are progressive.

We're very liberal thinkers.

I would think that most, if not all, are not religious.

And then another one I think is if you're not like super happy, like flamboyant,

like deep down there's maybe underlying anxiety or depression.

That's an assumption.

That's an assumption.

Sometimes that's true.

Number one, I've kind of noticed that like they can't really—

They can't really move on even if that a point that they've raised has been addressed.

It's like they're always sticking to their guns even if we've already beaten that gun.

The second assumption would be like they usually quote slash misquote the Bible a lot.

This is not more of an assumption but like more of an observation.

It's like to some extent they're like surrendering everything.

Both good and bad to the point where they forget to credit themselves.

I don't think they realize that technically we're all in the same side.

I think they don't really recognize that like the actual division is not because of what is perceived to be sinful or not.

But it's actually because of how old people and historical people chose to view it through their eyes during their time.

Never have I ever disagreed with a priest's homily.

I have never disagreed.

Ok. Never have I ever felt Catholic guilt while doing a sexual act?

live like a

a sexual act!

Have you ever thought of like Jesus while doing it?

No.

Actually, not.

What? Oh, I have!

Shit. it's so weird!

I always think that

Like, what is he, like, what is my guardian angel saying right now?

Never have I ever not paid attention in religion class or any of those.

All the time?

Ikaw, nagpa-pay attention ka?

Yeah, it's one of my highest subjects.

All the time?

It was one of my highest subjects.

What?

I thought you were non-practicing.

Okay, ito.

Never have I ever explored another religion.

Yeah, um, what was the thing with the yin and yang?

Taoism, right?

That's the religion with the yin and yang symbol.

I just basically, like, highly related to the concept of balance.

So, yeah.

I'm going to choose from one of your photos.

This one?

Oh, yeah.

Sige, ayan.

Okay, alright.

One of the hot topics then was, like,

then President Duterte's approval of

of Marcos Sr. being

being buried in the libingan ng mga bayani.

So, I've evolved to the point wherein

I just call out when I see bullshit.

Love that.

This was bullshit.

Yes.

This one,

I guess, like, this pretty much stood out.

Oh, why?

Because, like, it stood out to me because it felt like

the most freeing and calming.

Wow!

Actually,

interesting you chose this because this is a photo that

I was supposed to post on YouTube.

I was supposed to post on my Finsta, but I accidentally posted

on my main Instagram, so that's cool.

So, yun.

I mean, wala, there's really not much to say about it

except that it's, like, the wackier side of me, maybe.

Oh, well...

When did you realize your gender identity

and how did you know for certain?

I fully realized it when I was already in grade 6.

Really?

There was this one moment wherein I made my classmate's name my password.

I didn't realize it when I set that password,

but now, looking back at it, I was like,

alright, I was probably attracted to my seatmate.

Presyo pala.

Yeah, probably.

What parts of the Bible do you think are being used out of context a lot?

And which ones do you believe are accurate?

Oh my gosh!

Okay, to be honest, even if I claim that I'm, like, super Catholic,

I'm not sure if there's anything that I can quote from memory

that is heavily used that is misinterpreted and all of that.

But a lot of interpretations of the Scripture, of text, are outdated.

So, I'm with you on that when you say na, you know,

a lot of it can be misquoted and misconstrued.

You also asked if there's something I know for certain is, like, yun talaga.

Like, yun talaga yung essence of the Catholic.

teaching.

It's, one, you should love your Lord with all your heart,

with all your soul, with all your mind.

And then the second greatest commandment is to love your neighbor as yourself.

So, I feel like that is the essence of Catholic teaching.

It's just to love the Lord, love everyone else, love your neighbor.

Just love.

My next question is,

how do you reconcile your experiences,

your personal experiences and your gender identity,

your experiences with, like, your sexual orientation,

your sexual orientation,

with the teachings of the Catholic Church with regards to the topic?

Interestingly enough, there was one core college class

and one of the topics there were marriage, masturbation,

sexual relations, and homosexuality.

And, like, what were the church stances there.

I remember that there were four,

four considerations.

Only one was actually pretty homophobic.

If three out of four interpretations,

or three out of four schools of thought are accepting of being gay,

then, like, why is it that, like, other people always default to the first one, right?

And then after that, I actually began to do some research.

And then, like, where in the Bible did Jesus or God say gays would go to hell?

Apparently, there wasn't.

Nowhere. Nowhere, right?

I also tried to search it.

I also tried to search.

Yeah, exactly.

Apparently, there wasn't.

I was able to reconcile it because

I factually knew that there was nothing in the Bible that goes against us.

As far as faith and Jesus are concerned,

they're on my side.

And apparently, we're all on the same side.

We're supposed to be on the same side.

So, who is against us?

Eventually, it's just people.

Since we've experienced three popes,

when Pope Francis came along,

there was, like, a sudden change.

How has your thinking evolved as these popes change?

Because, of course, as popes change, church stances changes.

I think, like, right now, there's a lot of controversy on Pope Francis

because he has been very vocal about blessing gays.

He's always saying that the orientation is not a crime.

You know, within the church, they're all like,

No, that's wrong.

But that's the pope.

So, that's the thing.

And so, you know, whenever I thought of something

that maybe I didn't understand,

I would always call it out.

Like, if there's acceptance, if it's about love and acceptance,

why is same-sex marriage not allowed?

Like, why is it a sin to love and all of that things?

And my dad, I think he was able to explain it to me

in a way that I was able to digest.

Because he said that the Catholic Church recognizes

that there's a difference between the sexual, like, the orientation,

the sexual orientation and the sexual act.

Everyone is, like, accepted, right?

Everyone is loved by God.

But then there's also, like, there are also these parameters

that would, like, would count your actions as sin.

Like, the homosexual act, basically, of, like,

man and man, woman and woman,

goes against the natural law.

That's why, also,

in the same light, premarital sex is also considered a sin.

Yeah, whether you're hetero or woman.

Yeah, whether or not you're, right?

Because, like, it's also going against the possibility of procreation.

So that's where the line is drawn.

If the rules are the same, then, you know,

that's how I understood that, like,

oh, okay, it's not that the gays are wrong,

it's just the act, right?

That's why, like, it's going against the natural law

because it has nothing to do with, like, Scripture,

like, Biblical,

na sinasabi ni Lord, na bawal man and man.

It's just, yun lang.

It just goes against the procreation.

So, it's essentially the concern of the act, right?

However, like, I think that we can all agree

that, like, in terms of the actual human experience,

the act of sex is always coming from the feeling

or the sense of love.

How do you think can it be reconciled that, like,

while gay people are allowed to love each other,

why can't they express their love the same way

as heterosexuals are allowed to do?

I think kasi in the whole context of, like,

the Church teaching, sex is a sacred thing.

It should be, it's like a gift from God

and it should really just be shared

between, like, man and woman in marriage.

So, even if you're not married,

it's really talagang wrong

because, nga, the ultimate thing is procreation talaga.

For me personally, like, even if, you know,

even if I want to say na I don't believe in it

and I don't agree,

I still think that it's for good cause

and it's for good reason because I think

a lot of the teachings of the Church,

they're not really meant to put boundaries

or to restrict you.

They're actually meant to free you.

I think, nga, it's not different, eh,

when it comes to homosexual, heterosexual.

If it's not in, within the confines of marriage

and with a purpose, sole purpose of procreation,

then it's, I think it's wrong.

Yeah.

Alright.

So, in your view, how do you,

what role does the Catholic Church play

in supporting LGBTQIA plus individuals?

And do you see opportunities for improvement

and how can we give you a more welcoming

and safe environment?

Mmm, okay.

I really do think that, like,

there's essentially a disconnect

between the Catholic Church

and the LGBTQIA plus community.

We need to feel like we're still included

without any prejudice.

We're still, like, we're still human.

We need to feel that sense of community again.

Like, we still need to feel that, like,

we can still do the things that everyone can do.

Always remember na, like,

what's the more loving thing to do?

We try to defend based on logic,

based on text.

But we pretty much forget what it feels like na,

what is the more loving option?

And, like, to that effect,

one of the effects of the miscommunication

is, like, we feel like we're being excluded.

We feel like we do not belong anymore

in the Catholic Church just because of that.

How have you felt that?

In your experience,

how have you felt excluded from the Catholic Church?

Whenever I would go to the retreat

or, like, undergo one of the sacraments,

I've gotten the thought of,

what's the point of me doing this

if I know I'm not wrong?

It doesn't feel wrong.

It feels genuine.

It feels loving.

And that's where I feel God.

And so, like, to some extent,

a byproduct of this miscommunication is

straight Catholics experience God

in their usual way.

Even the LGBTQIA plus Catholics

experience God in their own way.

Do you know the drag queen Pura Loque Vega?

Yes.

Yan.

I'm not sure what the pronouns they're using,

so I'll just use datum.

Sorry if I am misgendering.

Sorry.

They were just arrested

because of dressing up as Jesus Christ.

And, like, it's basically like a singing Jesus.

How is that different from your usual...

Na-charismatic na parang,

rock songs na Catholic Church.

Exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

Like, you know how in music, like,

We are aligned.

Yes.

That is an LGBTQIA plus person

expressing their own religious take on it.

And that's where they feel the connection.

Many gays actually felt like

their connection to God was restored because of that.

It's like,

Oh, He exists here too.

Pwede pala.

So, like, it all boils down to

are we still doing acts of mercy?

Are we still doing everything with good intentions?

Are we choosing the more loving option?

Because in the end,

that's what we're gonna be judged for.

I feel like a reason why we both resonate with each other

and we both agree on certain things,

actually a lot of things,

is because, like,

I also believe that your understanding of Catholic teachings

is subjective.

It can't be black and white.

It's really, for me, ultimately, like,

are you being your mother?

Are you being your most loving self?

Are you choosing to glorify God

or, like, whatever you believe in the universe?

Even if we're gonna be marketed as opposites,

for lack of a better term,

essentially, we're all on the same side.

We're all the same.

Yeah.

We're all the same.

Yeah, because, like,

who wouldn't want to be on the side of love?

Love is the phenomenon between two people

who admire and respect each other

and will do everything in their power

to become better versions of themselves

and help each other become better versions

of each other as well.

Period.

This experience was,

it pretty much asserted

what I believe to be true.

Really coming into this,

I was more curious than

I felt like I had something to say.

It's good because we were able to assert that

there's essentially supposed to be no division at all.

This division is ultimately just man-made.

It's not something from God.

The Catholic Church really should do better.

Kulang.

There's very few people like me

who are, like, really actively spreading the message

of love and acceptance and understanding.

We're literally all on the same side.

So, you guys have to treat your neighbors

with a default amount of love and respect.

Love God with everything.

Love your neighbor as yourself.

Those are the two things, guys.

The moment you choose not to love,

that's when you need to question yourself.

Homosexuality is not a sin.

It's inhospitability.