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00:00.0
Your own round of interviews and all. Ang gusto ko na i-double check dito is what are the...
00:08.5
Sige, I'll push it further. I mean, if there's even a possibility to talk about the word treason or something like that
00:15.3
and then the different responses we're getting, then we go into the big picture.
00:18.8
Pero let's start muna with the gentleman's agreement na lang.
00:22.7
I'm just making sure we have a gentleman's agreement to discuss and gentleman's agreement.
00:36.6
Alright, good morning everyone. Good evening everyone. Thanks for joining us. Justice Carpio again. Very, very interesting times.
00:44.9
Thank you, Richard. And good morning to our viewers.
00:49.4
Justice, of course, before talking about the big picture.
00:52.7
Something that we did in a separate show of mine that will hopefully come in the coming weeks.
00:58.6
First, pag-usapan natin itong gentleman's agreement na sinasabi ni Harry Roque.
01:05.6
From a legal standpoint, before we talk about the politics and circumstances, is there anything such as gentleman's agreement?
01:13.0
Does it have any kind of a binding nature? Or if it doesn't have a binding nature, what's a gentleman's agreement in international affairs?
01:22.7
A gentleman's agreement that is not publicly declared, it's not publicly announced, is just binding between the two so-called gentlemen.
01:35.1
And it will not bind the successor or the public because the public and the successor didn't know about it.
01:45.0
It's unlike a unilateral declaration where the president...
01:52.7
If he declares unilaterally that he's giving up the West Philippine Sea to China, that's binding on the state because that's considered a unilateral declaration that's announced publicly.
02:05.7
But in this case, nobody knew about it. And so they could not react. Nobody could do anything about it.
02:14.7
So it's only binding between the two of them.
02:19.0
Justice, do we have like a precedence for this?
02:22.7
In the case of the Philippines or something relevant to the territorial disputes, a kind of a gentleman's agreement?
02:29.1
I mean, like Malaysia, I don't know, Malaysia-China or that Gulf of Tonkin agreement between Vietnam and China.
02:36.0
That's more than a gentleman's agreement, right?
02:39.3
Yeah, well, I can't think of a similar case at the moment.
02:44.2
We have to remember that Duterte denied his spokesman.
02:52.7
Salvador Panelo denied that there was such an agreement.
02:56.7
And Harry Roque seemed to have a back down from his claim.
03:02.6
And he was saying that, yes, I agree to the statement of Panelo.
03:09.8
So it looks like it's being denied by the Duterte camp and even the person who first brought it up has backed down on his claim.
03:21.1
And Panelo said...
03:22.7
Harry Roque was lying and was just looking for publicity when he said that.
03:30.1
So the spokesperson who replaced Panelo was, of course, Harry Roque.
03:37.5
And Panelo said that Harry Roque was just a publicity seeker and was lying.
03:42.4
So we have to look at the entire context of how this happened.
03:51.3
And, well, first of all, legally, it's not binding on the Philippines.
03:55.4
It's not binding on the successor.
03:57.4
And third, it's even being denied now.
04:00.4
If you recall, it came out in the Manila Times newspaper that an unnamed embassy official of China told the reporter of Manila Times that there was a gentleman's agreement.
04:17.2
And that's how Roque reacted.
04:21.3
He confirmed that there was a gentleman's agreement.
04:24.2
But Panelo, he said he checked with President Duterte and President Duterte said, no, there is no gentleman's agreement.
04:31.0
So that's where we are now.
04:34.1
Well, I mean, just to be clear, this is not the first time we see Duterte officials completely contradicting each other.
04:41.8
And in this sense, I won't rule out the possibility of some rivalry going on between the two spokesmen, not to mention colleagues.
04:48.3
I think both of them are at SMNI.
04:51.3
The media of the Bayani, like Harry Roque.
04:55.7
But setting aside the dynamic of the, let's say, interesting siblings rivalry going on within the DDS camp,
05:04.1
what would you, I mean, hypothetically, what would have been the circumstances for a potential gentleman's agreement?
05:12.3
Because, I mean, I don't want to be facetious about it, but there are times you'd rather trust China over these people.
05:18.5
So, like, I mean, considering the credibility, probably they gave something to China and Galit na Galit and China.
05:28.2
Well, legally, it will not bind the successor because it was a secret agreement and not disclosed.
05:37.0
Nobody could react to it.
05:39.3
And it was binding as far as both of them would agree to follow it during their term.
05:46.0
But Duterte now is out of office.
05:48.5
And, of course, Roque himself was saying that it was only binding between the two, between President Xi and Duterte,
05:57.5
probably because Duterte said, I love President Xi.
06:00.3
That's why he made that promise.
06:03.6
So, that's the situation now.
06:07.8
And the Chinese embassy cannot produce any document because there is no document.
06:14.9
They said it was just verbal.
06:16.5
If you recall, President Xi...
06:18.5
Duterte also said that he has allowed China to fish, the Chinese fishermen to fish in the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines in the West Philippine Sea.
06:27.9
That clearly violated the Constitution, which says the marine wealth in the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines is reserved exclusively for Filipinos.
06:39.1
So, he violated it.
06:42.2
And I was waiting for Senate to investigate it because...
06:48.5
So, you know, any executive agreement, if you call it, or any treaty must be taken up by the Senate.
06:58.5
At least they must discuss it if it constitutes a treaty, it constitutes a derogation of our sovereign rights.
07:04.8
But nobody wanted to discuss it.
07:06.6
They were all afraid of Duterte.
07:08.5
And that's already the Senate.
07:11.1
How much more for the House?
07:12.7
So, it was a very strange situation where Duterte kept on violating the Constitution.
07:18.5
When he said the Navy will patrol only the territorial sea, the Constitution says the state shall protect its marine wealth in its exclusive economic zone.
07:28.4
So, you know, we were the only ones who were calling Duterte to task.
07:33.7
We were calling him out of bounds.
07:36.5
But the rest of the Congress, they just refused to tackle it.
07:40.5
And I don't know why.
07:42.7
And this is the result.
07:44.2
Duterte kept on making those statements.
07:48.5
And I think we should be very strict when it comes to the Constitution.
07:53.2
We should hold every public official accountable if they violate the Constitution openly.
07:58.9
It was an open violation.
08:02.2
Justice, of course, just to be clear, I mean, biglang maraming matapang ngayon sa ating Kongreso and Senado.
08:07.8
Now, everyone is fighting for the West Philippine Sea.
08:10.2
Yung iba nga, nagtit-T-shirt pa ng West Philippine Sea.
08:12.8
May designer T-shirt, pumupunta sa Gilas Pilipinas.
08:15.9
Of course, we all very much remember.
08:18.5
How these people were reacting back in the day, including against us, right?
08:22.6
When we were calling out the words of the President.
08:25.2
But, I mean, putting aside the antics and the clown show and everything during the era of Duterte,
08:32.6
and even after, as we can see right now, sila-sila na lang, nag-away-away na sila.
08:37.5
I mean, I think Senator Riza Ontivera, some of the few independent-minded people out there in the government,
08:44.4
she said that, aren't we talking about the potentially treasonous situation here?
08:48.2
I mean, shouldn't we have a thorough, comprehensive investigation?
08:53.0
Which organs of the state should be involved, aside from the Senate?
08:55.9
Should the executive branch also launch a serious investigation into this?
08:59.2
Kasi, I mean, we can laugh about this, but if this is potentially a treasonous situation,
09:03.3
then something more serious should be discussed.
09:05.5
The reason I'm talking about this is because the DFA's statement in early March
09:09.9
more or less implied that there was such a proposal,
09:13.7
and it was contrary to our national interest, as they put it, explicitly.
09:17.6
So, DFA is washing off its hands.
09:20.1
So, it looks like no official organ was involved,
09:23.8
but some people may have been involved, regardless of what Salvador Panelon
09:27.9
or some extremely credible people are saying out there.
09:31.4
Yeah, you're right.
09:33.0
The DFA disclosed that there were proposals by China,
09:38.2
but the DFA rejected it because it would violate the Constitution
09:42.1
and it would be against the arbitral award.
09:45.8
But maybe what...
09:47.6
Senator Riza Antepera is doing is the right thing.
09:50.6
Because under existing law,
09:53.4
treason can be committed only during wartime.
09:56.0
And this is really, if Duterte did it during wartime, this is treason.
10:03.3
He can be executed for treason if we have a penalty for execution for treason.
10:12.4
But I think what Riza should do is to...
10:17.6
to conduct the investigation in aid of legislation.
10:22.5
So that we will have legislation in place during peacetime.
10:26.9
Because during wartime, if a person commits a treasonous act,
10:32.2
that's governed by the revised penal code.
10:34.4
But there is no equivalent law during peacetime.
10:38.8
The nearest law is when you are disloyal to the Republic.
10:43.2
That's considered a violation of the...
10:47.6
the Code of Conduct of Government Officials.
10:50.8
But the penalty there is dismissal from office.
10:54.4
So it's not the...
10:56.2
I think the penalty is to...
11:02.6
And of course, if you are in office, you can be impeached
11:07.4
if it's a culpable violation of the Constitution
11:09.8
and you are an impeachable officer.
11:11.9
But the president will close Congress
11:14.4
so nobody would file exactly what happened during the time of the...
11:17.4
So we should have a law saying that
11:19.6
if you commit a treasonous act,
11:23.4
the same treasonous act during peacetime,
11:26.1
then you will be subject to a penalty also.
11:31.3
Which will be probably lighter during peacetime
11:34.1
if it is in wartime.
11:38.1
I think there is a gap in the law because
11:40.2
if it is a crime during peacetime...
11:44.3
it should also be a crime during peacetime
11:47.4
endures the national interest.
11:50.5
So that should be the...
11:51.9
that should be the direction of the inquiry
11:54.7
that's in aid of legislation
11:56.6
because you are thinking of a new legislation
11:59.3
that will apply during peacetime
12:01.4
because there is a gap, a hiatus in the law.
12:05.8
Thank you, Justice, for pointing that out.
12:08.6
I mean, why do you think we have such a gap?
12:11.8
I mean, isn't it like commonsensical that, you know,
12:15.3
treasonous acts could happen in a...
12:17.4
non-war situation
12:18.3
but in still very, very fragile situations
12:21.3
it could, you know, lead to war?
12:22.7
I mean, the United States
12:23.7
had all sorts of different legislations
12:25.9
during the Cold War period
12:27.1
whereby you're not talking about direct war
12:29.2
with the Soviet Union
12:30.2
but, you know, potentially disastrous, you know,
12:34.2
actions by American officials
12:35.4
that could completely undermine their national security.
12:39.1
I mean, obviously, if you watch the movie Oppenheimer,
12:41.3
you would have criticism
12:42.3
because it was used to, you know, to...
12:44.9
you know, to red-tag, essentially,
12:47.1
you know, but nevertheless,
12:50.0
in democracies today, in mature democracies today,
12:54.1
do we have any kind of a legal blueprint
12:56.0
that we can draw on?
12:58.6
Yes, the US, UK, and other democracies in EU,
13:05.4
they all have lost even during peacetime
13:08.3
because they had this...
13:10.7
during the Cold War,
13:12.1
a lot of their government officials
13:17.1
were recruited by the KGB.
13:19.8
And so they developed that.
13:22.1
They had to promulgate laws
13:25.6
to counter the communist recruitment,
13:29.2
the KGB recruitment.
13:30.2
But we did not have that kind of experience.
13:35.3
We just copied the...
13:37.1
our present revised penal code is copied
13:39.3
almost verbatim from the revised penal code of Spain.
13:44.5
And it's very old law.
13:51.4
In the case of treason,
13:57.3
it applied only during wartime.
13:59.0
So we have to update.
14:00.6
That's why I'm hoping that this legislative inquiry
14:05.5
of Santa Rosa will move in that direction.
14:10.0
That there is really a gap.
14:11.5
There's a black hole in our legal system.
14:17.0
It's not only Duterte.
14:18.2
You have a lot of Filipinos now
14:19.6
who are mouthing Chinese propaganda
14:22.7
because they're paid by China.
14:26.3
We have a law already.
14:29.5
It was enacted during the time of Marcos,
14:35.4
during martial law.
14:36.8
It's like all those who are lobbyists
14:41.3
for a foreign country,
14:42.8
paid lobbyists must register.
14:45.1
That's only for purposes of...
14:46.9
For purposes of registration.
14:50.2
Yeah, transparency.
14:51.4
But we really need something
14:52.7
because we may have some military officers
14:55.2
who will be recruited by China
14:58.5
during peace time.
14:59.9
That's the problem.
15:02.8
If you're a military officer,
15:04.6
you would be governed by the military rules.
15:08.0
You can be subjected to court martial.
15:10.4
But for civilians,
15:12.6
there's that very weak provision
15:14.6
in the Code of Conduct
15:15.9
for government employees.
15:16.9
Yes, it's a violation.
15:19.2
But this penalty is just dismissal
15:21.5
from government office.
15:25.9
doesn't that kind of reflect
15:28.8
some fundamental weaknesses
15:30.9
and sense of complacency
15:32.9
I mean, in different episodes with you
15:34.6
and other people are in the notebook,
15:37.4
the things that West Philippines see,
15:38.4
we discuss a lot about national defense,
15:40.5
AFP, external security.
15:42.8
But I find it's quite surprising
15:46.9
all of these serious gaps,
15:49.4
in terms of our legislation.
15:51.7
medyo masipag naman
15:52.6
mga abugado natin.
15:53.8
It's not like we were a country
15:55.3
shy of making legislations.
15:57.5
I don't want to be too speculative,
15:59.3
but I'm half shocked at the fact
16:01.3
that all of these decades,
16:02.7
we did not try to take care
16:05.2
of some of these basic things.
16:07.4
Is it because we were too reliant
16:08.7
on the United States
16:09.7
throughout the Cold War period
16:11.4
and we are still trying
16:13.0
to find our own footing?
16:14.5
I mean, what's going on there?
16:18.7
I think we have that gap in the law
16:22.4
and we have been very cavalier.
16:27.0
if you remember President Duterte,
16:32.6
which is practically financed by Chinatel,
16:36.4
a Chinese state-owned company,
16:39.1
to install their towers
16:40.9
in all our military camps.
16:42.8
Can you just imagine that?
16:43.9
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
16:46.9
receivers, transceivers
16:49.0
will be installed in our military camps.
16:51.4
So they will all collect
16:52.8
all the communications of our military.
16:57.7
to the credit of our military,
16:59.4
they refused to implement it.
17:01.6
They couldn't, of course,
17:02.8
say no directly to the Commander-in-Chief,
17:06.2
President Duterte.
17:07.3
But they just delayed
17:08.9
and now they're not implementing it.
17:11.5
Because they know.
17:18.7
like General Esperon,
17:20.5
who was head of the NSA at the time,
17:22.5
they all defended Duterte.
17:24.2
But the people on the ground
17:27.4
the injury that could be caused.
17:30.9
So they just refused to implement it.
17:33.6
While their superiors
17:36.4
paid lip service to it.
17:40.5
But all of them really didn't want to implement it.
17:46.6
not a single tower was installed.
17:51.2
I think we need really
17:52.8
a whole-of-nation approach
17:54.6
on national security.
17:57.3
That we should be conscious.
18:04.6
in the draft of the
18:07.4
amended Public Service Act
18:09.3
that Duterte proposed to Congress,
18:12.8
a telecom company
18:15.3
a telecom company
18:17.0
100% owned by China,
18:21.2
I will give the third telco to China,
18:24.6
Can you just imagine that?
18:27.4
so what happened here was,
18:33.8
to create poison pills.
18:37.8
what happened was the
18:38.9
intelligence service of the
18:43.5
proposed to Congress
18:45.0
to put their subject to,
18:46.4
to national security.
18:47.4
The president can decide
18:49.2
not to implement this law
18:51.8
allowing foreigners
18:53.0
to own 100% of our telecom
18:56.2
on our national security.
18:57.6
So that's one layer.
19:07.4
suggested to Congress
19:11.1
foreigners can own 100%,
19:12.4
but not state-owned
19:16.4
the Chinese telecom companies
19:19.8
So they were able to insert that.
19:22.8
because I was worried,
19:24.8
I suggested to some congressmen
19:26.6
that to put their subject
19:32.9
to own 100% of our
19:36.4
Chinese should also allow us.
19:39.0
foreigners cannot own a majority
19:40.6
of our telecom company.
19:42.0
Because they know
19:42.7
telecom company is essential
19:44.7
to national security.
19:47.4
to own your telecom company.
19:50.9
under Chinese law,
19:53.6
all Chinese citizens
19:56.2
wherever they are
19:58.9
turn over to China,
20:02.2
security agencies,
20:05.0
any data that they,
20:06.6
that is in their possession.
20:12.9
in Camp Aguinaldo,
20:17.4
And they get all those
20:20.4
of our general headquarters.
20:22.4
The Chinese who operate
20:26.4
will be forced to turn over
20:28.4
the data to Chinese security agencies.
20:34.4
there are three layers now
20:42.4
majority control of DITO.
20:47.3
state-owned company,
20:52.7
Philippine telecom companies.
20:58.6
for reasons of national security,
21:02.5
it must be subject
21:04.4
And China will never
21:05.6
open up their telecom industry
21:10.3
Because for them,
21:13.3
The essence of the Communist Party,
21:16.2
under the control of DITO.
21:19.2
for their total control
21:21.2
of communications.
21:28.2
for the internet.
21:30.2
complete surveillance.
21:36.2
to control society
21:37.2
and the communist regime.
21:45.2
for controlling society.
21:46.2
And they will never allow
21:50.2
their telecom industries.
21:54.2
with that condition
21:55.2
subject to reciprocity.
22:02.2
private companies,
22:03.2
their being private
22:11.2
and take over the company
22:12.2
or has essentially,
22:17.2
board of governors.
22:19.2
there are so many levers
22:20.2
that the Chinese government
22:24.2
force Chinese companies,
22:25.2
even privately owned companies,
22:30.2
last time I checked,
22:31.2
is a private company,
22:33.2
no one in any mature democracy
22:34.2
would assume that
22:35.2
Huawei is not being influenced
22:36.2
by the Chinese government
22:37.2
one way or another.
22:38.2
Considering how much
22:40.2
and how much direct
22:42.2
and political control
22:43.2
the Chinese Communist Party
22:45.2
practically everything
22:50.2
doesn't this mean that
22:52.2
we have to be careful
22:53.2
with any kind of deal
22:54.2
with any major Chinese company
22:56.2
our critical infrastructure
22:58.2
which also raises the issue
22:59.2
of national greed,
23:02.2
it's not only the ownership,
23:04.2
It's also the maintenance,
23:09.2
a number of senators,
23:10.2
including Senator Ontiveros
23:14.2
have raised issues about,
23:17.2
Chinese engineers
23:19.2
in some of these companies,
23:23.2
in the greed sector,
23:28.2
do something more drastic here,
23:31.2
some of these sectors
23:34.2
national security papers
23:35.2
with respect to China?
23:37.2
on the national grid,
23:38.2
I think we have to
23:39.2
renationalize it.
23:43.2
There are technicians.
23:46.2
when they removed
23:47.2
all the Filipino technicians
23:49.2
the ESAP complained,
23:50.2
the intelligence service
23:51.2
of the Armed Forces
23:52.2
of the Philippines
23:55.2
I don't know if they,
23:56.2
they were brought back
23:59.2
over the technical matters
24:01.2
under the national grid
24:10.2
it can be shut down
24:11.2
because these are all
24:12.2
done electronically
24:21.2
if you have a house
24:25.2
through the internet.
24:26.2
You can start your car
24:30.2
Through the internet.
24:32.2
you can shut down
24:39.2
we have to be very careful
24:44.2
our maritime zones
24:45.2
and island territories
24:46.2
in the West Philippine Sea
24:56.2
if they can shut down
24:57.2
our national grid?
25:03.2
their own generator.
25:05.2
they will not rely
25:06.2
on the national grid.
25:07.2
That's how critical
25:13.2
their own generator
25:16.2
in the West Philippine Sea,
25:17.2
China will just switch,
25:19.2
the national grid
25:20.2
and all our camps
25:38.2
The privatization
25:39.2
happened during the
25:49.2
through the national grid.
25:52.2
a plant in Quezon,
25:55.2
through the national grid
25:56.2
because the power
26:00.2
it's like a tollway.
26:04.2
through the tollway
26:05.2
and there will be
26:13.2
and it will always
26:26.2
it was privatized
26:38.2
If it is losing money
26:39.2
then there's corruption there.
26:42.2
just as I don't want
26:43.2
to be self-deprecating
26:45.2
but parang the thing,
26:46.2
dito is parang medyo
26:47.2
banana republic tayo.
26:49.2
there's so many safeguards,
26:52.2
in any serious democracy
26:54.2
that it looks like
26:56.2
they're really missing
26:57.2
in the case of the Philippines
27:00.2
Duterte being a lawyer himself
27:01.2
and not necessarily
27:03.2
but being the lawyer himself
27:04.2
perhaps was aware
27:05.2
of a lot of these gaps
27:07.2
that he exploited
27:10.2
dito sa West Philippines
27:13.2
your understanding?
27:15.2
He knew what he was doing
27:18.2
it was intentional.
27:25.2
He knew the consequences.
27:29.2
Nobody will oppose China
27:30.2
but he did it willingly
27:32.2
he wanted to do it
27:36.2
their national interest.
27:38.2
that's why I said
27:40.2
that would be treason
27:44.2
culpable violation
27:45.2
of the constitution.
27:46.2
He's an impeachable officer
27:47.2
but you need Congress
27:56.2
all the congressmen
27:57.2
are under the thumb
28:00.2
of the pork battle.
28:01.2
The Supreme Court
28:06.2
the general appropriations
28:08.2
there would be a line there
28:16.2
in their district
28:18.2
the Supreme Court ruled
28:19.2
that is unconstitutional
28:24.2
It cannot implement.
28:26.2
That is an executive function.
28:34.2
still want their pork barrel.
28:36.2
the entire amount
28:37.2
of the pork barrel
28:38.2
in the department
28:41.2
entirely up to the president
28:44.2
to distribute it.
28:47.2
kowtow to the president
28:55.2
recommend anymore.
28:57.2
And so the president
29:00.2
I will give you your pork barrel
29:03.2
for later release.
29:05.2
for later release.
29:06.2
When will it be released?
29:17.2
I will also release it
29:19.2
the ABS-CBN franchise.
29:24.2
with that mentality.
29:28.2
what will happen.
29:31.2
that narco politician
29:34.2
he could also put you
29:35.2
on the list of narco politicians
29:36.2
which is even worse right?
29:45.2
you just have to put
29:46.2
a decent man there.
29:48.2
after the national interest.
30:00.2
these are decent people.
30:02.2
something like that
30:04.2
well in the hands
30:19.2
and control our telecom
30:26.2
through the pork barrel.
30:33.2
broadcast company
30:35.2
They will tell the
30:42.2
So everybody lined up
30:47.2
That was the tool
30:52.2
I think presidential
30:57.2
around the president
31:03.2
essentially neutralize
31:04.2
checks and balance.
31:06.2
most dramatically
31:09.2
drug war ni Digong.
31:11.2
nagsabay-sabay lahat
31:12.2
ang mga buso na yan.
31:14.2
before going back again
31:17.2
and the implications
31:19.2
gentleman's agreement
31:20.2
I want to also ask
31:21.2
aren't we concerned
31:31.2
serious politicization
31:33.2
that every administration
31:34.2
will come in and open
31:36.2
against the previous one.
31:38.2
I mean you can imagine
31:39.2
that would have been
31:42.2
Aquino administration
31:46.2
by Senator Trillanes
31:47.2
on the Scarborough issue
31:50.2
in comment section
31:52.2
pro-Duterte people
31:54.2
oh what about this
31:58.2
safeguard against
32:01.2
politicians weaponizing this?
32:02.2
It will be subject
32:05.2
or by the government
32:16.2
there's an announcement
32:18.2
that the Supreme Court
32:21.2
unconstitutional.
32:24.2
it's very important
32:26.2
a decent president
32:33.2
because those powers
32:34.2
who has no morals
32:43.2
these things happen.
32:45.2
our exclusive economic zone
32:55.2
for the national interest.
33:00.2
we don't even have
33:04.2
It's a culpable violation
33:05.2
of the constitution
33:10.2
but since they are under the thumb
33:13.2
for later release funds
33:14.2
they cannot do it.
33:18.2
that's the dynamics there
33:22.2
we have to do something about it
33:26.2
this will really be
33:27.2
a big problem for us.
33:32.2
into other problems
33:46.2
in aid of legislation
33:48.2
political investigation
33:49.2
or anything like that
33:50.2
to do something about it
33:53.2
The problem though is
33:54.2
isn't there a committee
33:57.2
or Foreign Affairs?
33:59.2
Foreign Affairs is under IME
34:00.2
National Defense is under JINGOY.
34:03.2
I mean we also have that dynamic
34:04.2
in the Senate, right?
34:08.2
Well, I don't know
34:09.2
in what committee
34:18.2
the Senate President
34:19.2
and the majority.
34:23.2
another committee
34:26.2
I suppose it will
34:28.2
National Defense probably.
34:33.2
Go to the committee of
34:39.2
here is the committee on
34:41.2
revision of laws.
34:45.2
resident constitutional expert, right?
34:53.2
it should go properly to the
34:55.2
committee on the revision of laws
34:58.2
the revision of laws
34:59.2
and that will be under
35:00.2
and constitutional amendments.
35:04.2
Yeah, Robin Hood Padilla.
35:08.2
That's the correct
35:13.2
you still have the options of
35:15.2
committee of Bato
35:19.2
is chair of the committee.
35:21.2
wouldn't we expect
35:23.2
to be a little bit more vocal
35:25.2
considering he was the
35:26.2
Foreign Affairs Secretary
35:27.2
during whose time
35:30.2
gentleman's agreement
35:38.2
I mean, why would even hierarchy
35:39.2
make up stuff like that?
35:40.2
I mean, I don't think it serves his
35:42.2
his interest unless
35:45.2
pleasing some people
35:46.2
on the other side.
35:47.2
What's going on here?
35:49.2
I don't know what
35:50.2
what committee chairs
35:52.2
in the case of the
35:56.2
would fall under the
35:58.2
Robin Hood Padilla
36:00.2
it's a revision of
36:01.2
Constitutional Law
36:03.2
and revision of laws
36:08.2
the Senate of the President
36:09.2
the Senate President
36:12.2
that it will be handled
36:13.2
by Senator Angara
36:15.2
and that's what happened.
36:16.2
Maybe they can create
36:18.2
it will be handled by
36:22.2
or somebody else.
36:25.2
talk to Senator Sonny
36:28.2
are we tagging here?
36:34.2
I mean considering
36:36.2
quite vocal about
36:39.2
fake news peddler
36:40.2
in the Philippines
36:41.2
and disinformation campaign
36:44.2
we're just looking at the reality
36:45.2
of what we have at hand
36:48.2
when it comes to the issue of
36:50.2
issue of women rights
36:52.2
Riza Ondivera is okay
36:53.2
she has been doing her job
36:55.2
you know my question is
37:08.2
Harry Roque say something like
37:09.2
the agreement was
37:11.2
to the status quo
37:12.2
when everyone knows
37:15.2
in favor of China
37:20.2
marine engineering
37:28.2
given to the elements
37:31.2
you're essentially
37:32.2
paving the way for China
37:33.2
to eventually occupy
37:38.2
of direct administrative control
37:48.2
what is a status quo
37:50.2
is we are in control
38:09.2
you cannot bring in materials
38:10.2
only food and water
38:16.2
to bring materials
38:21.2
in favor of China
38:27.2
if you don't repair
38:29.2
it will just collapse
38:30.2
and that will end
38:36.2
that there will be
38:41.2
our presence there
38:42.2
that's the meaning
38:44.2
that's very clear
38:57.2
we are a transparent government
38:59.2
you have to propose
39:05.2
must go to the repair
39:10.2
there was a law passed
39:11.2
the General Appropriations Act
39:16.2
and the Chinese Embassy
39:21.2
that we are going to repair
39:28.2
with their maritime militia
39:33.2
from going to the
39:40.2
that was about 10 years ago
39:42.2
that incident happened
39:44.2
the Chinese found out
39:46.2
we were now going
39:55.2
it could have been hidden
39:57.2
intelligence fund
40:00.2
I was actually wondering
40:01.2
shouldn't that be
40:02.2
where the intelligence fund
40:04.2
whereby you don't allow
40:07.2
or foreign powers
40:09.2
exactly what you're doing
40:10.2
on these sensitive issues
40:12.2
the purpose of this
40:21.2
the budget of the military
40:22.2
is their number one
40:23.2
the number one document
40:25.2
they really go line by line
40:27.2
and they saw there
40:28.2
that there is an item
40:33.2
that's how it happened
40:34.2
we're so transparent
40:38.2
overly transparent
40:43.2
this is an interesting discussion
40:47.2
in some of our earlier
40:48.2
podcasts and discussions
40:52.2
we're always worried
40:53.2
about weaponizations
40:56.2
on basic freedoms
40:58.2
have been calling for
41:01.2
but I think we also
41:02.2
have to understand
41:05.2
and there's a national
41:07.2
and you have to balance
41:10.2
that we're having
41:13.2
because I think people
41:14.2
are realizing that
41:16.2
as much as we are
41:17.2
for political freedom
41:19.2
as far as China is concerned
41:25.2
responsible presidents
41:28.2
and not so responsible
41:32.2
what's my question right now
41:34.2
where does that leave Junior
41:36.2
in your estimation
41:39.2
I've said this before
41:41.2
pleasantly surprised
41:46.2
in the West Philippine Sea
41:52.2
even before the campaign
41:56.2
we shouldn't be buying
42:08.2
he has turned around
42:09.2
and I'm supportive of that
42:10.2
I'm very happy now
42:11.2
that we have a president
42:14.2
the West Philippine Sea
42:16.2
the arbitral award
42:18.2
of course there are
42:21.2
as far as the West Philippine Sea
42:25.2
with our foreign policy
42:29.2
of our foreign policy
42:34.2
there could be also
42:37.2
because obviously
42:38.2
we're in a catch up
42:40.2
we're trying to catch up
42:41.2
for lahat ng mga kakulangan
42:42.2
ng panahon ni Digong
42:43.2
catch up in terms of
42:44.2
our defense capability
42:48.2
right now would be
42:51.2
overly going into
42:52.2
the American camp
42:53.2
and perhaps that could be
42:54.2
also used by the Americans
42:56.2
to push their own agenda
42:57.2
in this part of the world
42:58.2
I mean I know this sounds like
43:00.2
the usual propaganda
43:02.2
or something like that
43:04.2
this is the United States
43:06.2
it has its own national interest
43:08.2
and I think as far as
43:09.2
the US is concerned
43:10.2
they want maximal access
43:11.2
to Philippine bases
43:14.2
they want to protect Taiwan
43:15.2
they want to protect
43:16.2
I don't know their own forward deployment capabilities in this part of the world
43:18.2
how do we also balance against
43:21.2
to the other side
43:22.2
and what is your reading
43:23.2
of how Marcos Junior
43:27.2
conducting his foreign policy
43:35.2
West Philippine Sea
43:36.2
is whether we can get
43:38.2
at the end of the day
43:41.2
natural resources
43:43.2
the natural resources
43:46.2
the natural resources
43:48.2
that belongs to you
43:49.2
so at the end of the day
43:50.2
can we get the gas
43:53.2
it's very easy for
43:57.2
we can send a message to China
44:01.2
if you don't want the
44:05.2
additional EDCA basis
44:10.2
from getting the gas in red bank
44:16.2
get closer to the
44:18.2
don't stop us from getting our
44:20.2
what belongs to us
44:23.2
I think all that we're doing now
44:27.2
to increase our leverage
44:29.2
to build up our leverage
44:32.2
what you're doing
44:34.2
is forcing us to go
44:36.2
to get closer to the Americas
44:38.2
because we need desperately the gas
44:40.2
it will be terrible for our economy
44:42.2
if we have to import LNG
44:45.2
Malampay supplies 40% of the energy requirement of Luzon
44:49.2
and if we have to import that
44:51.2
can you just imagine
44:55.2
industry players that
45:00.2
our power rates would go up tremendously
45:04.2
all the foreign investors will leave the country because
45:08.2
power is a very large component of
45:13.2
especially if you are in manufacturing
45:14.2
especially if you're in manufacturing.
45:15.4
They will all leave.
45:17.3
And even our domestic players,
45:19.4
they cannot compete
45:20.4
if their power cost is so high.
45:25.8
we have to send a message
45:27.8
that we have to get that gas.
45:29.4
If you don't want
45:32.8
put up additional edka sites,
45:35.7
yes, we can stop that.
45:37.1
But you have to give us gas.
45:40.7
We are just developing a leverage now.
45:42.7
And I think we still have to develop
45:46.5
Leverage in terms of
45:47.7
telling the Chinese that
45:49.4
we have our options also
45:52.3
in terms of giving Americans access
45:58.5
give us also a leverage
46:02.7
with respect to the Americans.
46:04.3
We will tell the Americans,
46:06.0
you have to accompany us when we go to
46:08.6
Ritbang to survey and drill.
46:10.2
Just like what you did for Malaysia
46:15.8
it's a dual purpose.
46:20.7
if you don't want these edka sites,
46:23.0
but give us our gas.
46:24.3
Don't prevent us.
46:26.8
And for the Americans,
46:28.5
we're giving you these edka sites,
46:30.3
additional edka sites,
46:31.3
provide a joint patrol with us.
46:35.0
Do a joint patrol with us
46:36.3
when we go to Ritbang.
46:38.4
we are really late.
46:40.6
It takes about four years
46:41.7
to develop Ritbang.
46:43.2
we don't have the gas.
46:46.5
large gas-fired plants in Luzon.
46:49.4
All of them were supplied
46:50.4
with gas from Malampaya.
46:53.0
But now, only two can be supplied.
46:55.5
And at the end of this year,
46:56.5
only one can be supplied.
46:57.9
That means we will have to import LNG
47:01.6
Which is very expensive.
47:03.3
It's very expensive.
47:07.1
that's the way I look at it.
47:10.3
We have to build up our leverage.
47:13.8
it's a dual purpose.
47:16.6
And that's where your contention comes in.
47:24.3
the issue of the West Philippines
47:25.1
is really because
47:26.0
he realized China is not going to budge
47:28.1
on the Ritbang-Recto Bank issue.
47:30.6
And you just imagine
47:31.9
we do not get the gas in Ritbang,
47:34.5
we have to import LNG,
47:36.5
it will become very unpopular.
47:38.3
Because inflation will go up.
47:44.9
drop in his ratings.
47:47.0
It's because of inflation.
47:48.7
Prices of goods are so high.
47:51.3
And you can just imagine
47:52.7
if we have to import all our
47:54.6
if we don't get gas from Alampaya
47:58.1
and import all our LNG,
48:00.2
inflation will go through the roof.
48:02.1
It will become very unpopular.
48:04.1
So, it's a matter of political survival
48:07.1
that we should get the gas in Ritbang.
48:10.3
And the only country
48:11.7
that can provide us
48:12.6
with a military cover,
48:17.6
That's what happened in Malaysia.
48:20.6
got the cover from both the Americans
48:23.6
and the Australian warships.
48:24.6
Indonesia got the cover from the US.
48:29.6
I think that's an important thing to mention
48:32.6
as we go towards the
48:33.6
you know, the final part of our discussion.
48:35.6
It's been an hour.
48:36.6
It's quick as always.
48:38.6
And I don't want to keep you too much justice.
48:44.6
the reason why Malaysia,
48:47.6
and to a certain degree,
48:48.6
even Vietnam are not having as much problem
48:50.6
is because in their own time,
48:53.6
a lot of that during Duterte time,
48:55.6
they held their ground, right?
48:56.6
Whether this is the West Capella Petronas
48:58.6
unilateral drill by Malaysia
49:00.6
from 2019 until 2020, 2021.
49:03.6
Whether this is Indonesian President Jokowi
49:05.6
going to North Natuna Sea
49:06.6
and drawing the line
49:07.6
and saying there will be no compromise.
49:09.1
Or Vietnam and their thousand years
49:10.6
of struggle against China.
49:13.6
it looks like our reading here is that
49:16.6
the reason why China is so bullying us right now
49:21.6
they feel they can impose their will on us
49:23.6
in ways that they cannot on our neighbors.
49:26.6
With our neighbors,
49:27.6
they're eventually accepting
49:28.6
a kind of a fragile status quo
49:30.6
and investing in those countries.
49:31.6
At tanggap nila hindi naman
49:33.6
hindi naman pushovers mga yan.
49:35.6
So, maybe they think we are pushovers
49:37.6
because of the Duterte era.
49:40.6
Because during the time of Duterte,
49:41.6
Duterte was subservient,
49:43.6
obsequiously subservient to China.
49:47.6
I love President Jinping.
49:48.6
He doesn't want to displease.
49:49.6
He barred our navy from patrolling the East.
49:54.6
China got used to that.
49:56.6
And China wants that to be the status quo.
49:59.6
That's the status quo that
50:01.6
Harry Roque is saying.
50:03.6
We don't want that kind of status quo.
50:07.6
now that we are asserting our sovereign rights,
50:11.6
China is of course reacting.
50:15.6
we cannot be the odd man out here.
50:18.6
Everybody gets their gas except us.
50:21.6
Because we are stupid.
50:22.6
We never before China,
50:27.6
I love President Jinping.
50:29.6
How can you say that
50:30.6
when President Jinping says
50:32.6
you cannot get your gas?
50:34.6
How can he still love President Jinping?
50:39.6
we have to correct that.
50:40.6
And President Marcos Junior,
50:45.6
his political survival depends on that also.
50:48.6
So, he has no choice really.
50:54.6
we don't want to give him
50:55.6
also too much of a credit, right?
50:57.6
Because this is also a question of Marcos
50:59.6
looking for its own interest,
51:00.6
knowing what's in store.
51:03.6
Just for the last part here,
51:08.6
would it be enough,
51:10.6
with the United States?
51:11.6
I mean, to what degree do you think
51:12.6
the Chinese will,
51:14.6
here in Ayungin Chol,
51:15.6
because the situation is getting worse,
51:18.6
It's becoming lethal, almost.
51:19.6
I mean, people could get killed
51:21.6
with the water pressure they're using.
51:24.6
you'll be killed, right?
51:25.6
If not directly even,
51:27.6
like the punching power
51:28.6
of the Ten Kingdoms.
51:30.6
So, we're already
51:31.6
in this very serious situation here
51:33.6
where China is really tightening the news.
51:38.6
I mean, shouldn't there be something
51:39.6
more drastic, aggressive?
51:43.6
I mean, I don't know,
51:44.6
like while the Philippines
51:45.6
is doing a resupply,
51:46.6
should there be American warships
51:48.6
just over the horizon
51:50.6
I mean, what are we looking at here
51:55.6
we have to prioritize.
51:58.6
I think in joint patrol in Rigbak,
52:02.6
there's no question
52:03.6
that it's totally underwater.
52:07.6
you don't see anything.
52:09.6
we should prioritize that.
52:11.6
We have joint patrol.
52:12.6
The U.S. has offered
52:13.6
to have joint patrol there
52:15.6
and many countries has offered,
52:17.6
have offered to have joint patrol
52:19.6
because they did that for Malaysia
52:22.6
with whom they don't even have
52:23.6
a mutual defense treaty.
52:28.6
because it's low tide
52:30.6
and very near Mischief Reef
52:38.6
it's a matter of pride for ourselves
52:39.6
that we should be able to resupply our own.
52:43.6
It should be the last resort.
52:45.6
We should do everything
52:47.6
to do it on our own
52:48.6
before we ask the U.S.
52:50.6
to jointly patrol
52:52.6
at the time we deliver the supplies.
52:54.6
I think we're not yet there.
52:59.6
we can still deliver
53:00.6
although we get hit.
53:03.6
But I think priority is to get the gas
53:06.6
and then we can talk,
53:08.6
sit down with Americans.
53:09.6
I like that statement of the U.S. Admiral
53:11.6
before the U.S. Congress that
53:15.6
Yeah, John Aquilino.
53:17.6
If somebody dies,
53:19.6
if Coast Guard personnel dies
53:22.6
because of a water cannon,
53:24.6
we can invoke the treaty.
53:26.6
Let's magnify that.
53:28.6
Let's put that as a,
53:30.6
as the interpretation
53:33.6
of what is an armed attack.
53:38.6
So that it sends a message to China.
53:40.6
You cannot do that
53:41.6
because we will invoke already.
53:43.6
Because China doesn't want us
53:44.6
to invoke the treaty
53:45.6
because if the U.S. goes there,
53:47.6
they really cannot do anything.
53:52.6
They have about 450 nuclear weapons.
53:55.6
The U.S. has 5,500.
53:57.6
They will be buried.
53:59.6
They cannot afford to go
54:01.6
to an all-out war.
54:02.6
So their strategy is just to intimidate us.
54:05.6
And you think the Americans are all,
54:11.6
they counter-questionably,
54:12.6
do you think the Americans are also willing
54:13.6
to push the envelope on this issue?
54:17.6
The Americans did it for Malaysia,
54:19.6
And the credibility of the U.S.
54:21.6
is at stake here.
54:22.6
And that's why every time they're here,
54:26.6
that the MDT military
54:28.6
applies to the West Philippine Sea,
54:30.6
including the Coast Guard.
54:35.6
to recover their credibility
54:37.6
because they really botched it.
54:39.6
Botched it in the
54:40.6
In the past, yeah.
54:42.6
Yeah, they wobbled.
54:43.6
Their knees wobbled in Scarborough Shore.
54:44.6
And during your time also, right?
54:45.6
In Mischief Reef.
54:47.6
They also didn't help us.
54:48.6
They also didn't help us.
54:51.6
now they're trying to recover
54:52.6
and we can take advantage of that.
54:56.6
we don't want to go to war.
54:57.6
We just want to get our natural,
55:00.6
We don't want to go to war with China.
55:04.6
We want to get our gas.
55:07.6
that's our right.
55:08.6
That's our legal right
55:09.6
under international law.
55:11.6
the argument here is that
55:12.6
China doesn't want war,
55:13.6
the Philippines doesn't want war,
55:14.6
the U.S. doesn't want war.
55:15.6
But the fact of the matter is that
55:18.6
fight our own fight,
55:19.6
then U.S. is not going to help us.
55:21.6
And if U.S. doesn't help us,
55:22.6
then China is not going to respect us.
55:24.6
I mean, that's essentially
55:25.6
the logic here, right?
55:27.6
That's the bottom line.
55:29.6
the U.S. will help us
55:31.6
if we help ourselves.
55:32.6
We cannot tell the U.S.,
55:34.6
Go get the gas for us.
55:36.6
We have to go there.
55:37.6
They will help us.
55:38.6
They will protect us.
55:39.6
But we have to do our part.
55:43.6
we have really to increase our
55:51.6
they really spend a lot
55:52.6
on their military.
55:55.6
mutual defense partners
55:58.6
refusing to spend anything
55:59.6
and relying on them completely,
56:04.6
they wouldn't want to help us.
56:08.6
especially if someone like,
56:10.6
Trump comes back to the White House.
56:11.6
I'm in South Carolina right now.
56:12.6
I'm sure a lot of people here
56:13.6
are excited for Trump 2.0.
56:18.6
what are we going to do
56:19.6
once Trump comes back?
56:21.6
these are some of the conversations
56:22.6
I'm going to have with folks here
56:23.6
in South Carolina
56:24.6
before heading to the blue states
56:25.6
in the coming days.
56:27.6
you know, Richard,
56:28.6
the U.S. has been an isolationist
56:30.6
before World War I.
56:33.6
It can happen again.
56:35.6
They have that streak.
56:39.6
we cannot take for granted
56:40.6
that U.S. will be there
56:42.6
That the mutual defense treaty
56:43.6
will be there all of the time.
56:44.6
We have to prepare
56:48.6
spending their resources
56:50.6
on defending areas
56:52.6
far beyond their shores.
56:56.6
we really have to prepare
57:04.6
what keeps you awake
57:08.6
of presidential question?
57:10.6
that there could be,
57:14.6
which I agree with,
57:16.6
and even Deng Xiaoping,
57:17.6
the wiser Chinese leader said it,
57:18.6
these are intergenerational struggles.
57:20.6
but are you concerned
57:21.6
that there could be some
57:29.6
trying to look like a hero?
57:31.6
are you worried about
57:34.6
as President Marcos
57:36.6
in a recent interview
57:48.6
the consequences.
57:49.6
The U.S. doesn't,
57:50.6
we don't want war.
57:51.6
China doesn't want war.
57:54.6
the entire strategy
57:56.6
the warfare strategies,
57:57.6
they will not fire
58:11.6
and China will lose
58:29.6
that we will miss
58:34.6
we allow ourselves
58:35.6
to be intimidated
58:37.6
that has happened
58:38.6
in the last six years.
58:39.6
That's a very good point
58:41.6
shooting ourselves
58:43.6
or allowing ourselves
58:44.6
to be intimidated
58:47.6
of the pro-China vloggers
58:48.6
and disinformation campaign
58:49.6
in the Philippines
58:55.6
which Duterte did
58:58.6
always interesting
58:59.6
because there's always
59:09.6
about that kind of
59:11.6
of disinformation.
59:12.6
They keep repeating
59:17.6
China never invaded
59:18.6
a country before.
59:19.6
Throughout history,
59:20.6
they've been invading.
59:21.6
They tried to invade
59:26.6
they invaded Korea.
59:30.6
and took over Tibet.
59:31.6
They invaded Xinjiang.
59:40.6
for a thousand years
59:44.6
Xinjiang literally
59:45.6
means the frontier.
59:58.6
the Chinese will say
60:04.6
the West Philippine Sea.
60:15.6
for a thousand years
60:26.6
they became so big?
60:29.6
continental-sized nation.
60:30.6
That didn't come up peacefully.
60:32.6
forget the war in
60:36.6
romance or trick.
60:41.6
what gives you hope?
60:43.6
what gives you a sense
60:45.6
aside from the fact that
60:46.6
Presidente is not
60:49.6
one of the things
60:50.6
that keep us awake at night
60:51.6
is the fear of another
60:52.6
Duterte coming back
60:55.6
putting that aside
61:01.6
that we're moving
61:02.6
in the right direction?
61:13.6
with other countries
61:14.6
and it's happening.
61:20.6
are also offering.
61:29.6
that will help us
61:31.6
because mutual defense
61:32.6
is really wartime
61:35.6
show your strength
61:37.6
and we're doing that.
61:41.6
in the right direction.
61:44.6
are you also happy
61:47.6
the direction of,
61:51.6
there's the disinformation,
61:52.6
there's all of that
61:54.6
I think that's because
61:58.6
that people are beginning
62:04.6
West Philippine City.
62:13.6
We just have to keep
62:17.6
thank you very much
62:19.6
former Justice Scorpio,
62:20.6
Associate Justice Scorpio
62:26.6
and then of course
62:29.6
an even more extensive discussion
62:31.6
The View from Manila
62:33.6
so watch out also for that
62:34.6
later this month.
62:35.6
Thank you so much
62:39.6
hindi kayo masawa sa amin.
62:47.6
Have a good day sir.
62:51.6
kamusta kayo guys?
62:55.6
sobrang pagod na pagod ako.
62:57.6
nagseset in na yung jet lag.
62:58.6
Ang gulo ng hair,
62:59.6
ang pangit na lahat.
63:03.6
nap lang ako ng konti
63:04.6
pero sobrang pagod talaga ako
63:08.6
sa time zone difference.
63:09.6
I have to wake up again
63:10.6
later on few hours from now
63:11.6
for another interview and all.
63:14.6
I'll just try to catch up
63:15.6
a little bit on rest.
63:16.6
Kala ko talaga na
63:21.6
the jet lag is setting in
63:22.6
so you can see already
63:23.6
masak na itsura natin.
63:24.6
Hindi na kasing fresh
63:26.6
So, hopefully we can have
63:27.6
a much more fresh looking
63:28.6
conversation later on.
63:30.6
thank you very much.
63:31.6
Maraming salamat sa lahat
63:32.6
ng mga nag-comments
63:33.6
especially mga nag-pass
63:34.6
sa ating magulong buhok ngayon.
63:38.6
pansinin niyo yung discussion.
63:39.6
Huwag masyadong magulong buhok.
63:40.6
Hindi ko pwede ayusin.
63:43.6
thank you very much.
63:44.6
God bless and talk to you soon.
