00:55.8
He can be executed for treason if we have a penalty for execution for treason.
01:04.5
But I think what Riza should do is to conduct the investigation in aid of legislation so that we will have legislation in place during peacetime.
01:19.4
Because during wartime, if a person...
01:23.2
commits a treasonous act, that's governed by the revised penal code.
01:26.7
But there is no equivalent law during peacetime.
01:30.7
The nearest law is when you are disloyal to the republic.
01:35.6
That's considered a violation of the code of conduct of government officials.
01:43.2
But the penalty there is dismissal from office.
01:47.1
So it's not the...
01:48.7
I think the penalty is to...
01:55.1
And of course, if you are in office, you can be impeached if it's a culpable violation of the constitution and you are an impeachable officer.
02:04.4
But the president controls Congress so nobody would file exactly what happened during time of Duterte.
02:09.9
So we should have a law saying that if you commit a treasonous act, the same treasonous act during peacetime, then you will be subject to a penalty also.
02:23.2
But the president controls Congress so nobody would file exactly what happened during peacetime.
02:23.7
Which will be probably lighter during peacetime if it is competitive than in wartime.
02:30.3
I think there is a gap in the law because if it is a crime during peacetime, during wartime, it should also be a crime during peacetime because it injures the national interest.
02:42.3
So that should be the...
02:44.0
That should be the direction of the inquiry that's in aid of legislation because you are thinking of new legislation that will apply during...
02:53.1
During peacetime, because there's a gap, a hiatus in the law.
02:57.4
Yeah, thank you Justice for pointing that out.
03:01.3
I mean, why do you think we have such a gap?
03:04.5
I mean, isn't it like commonsensical that, you know,
03:08.0
treasonous acts could happen in a non-war situation,
03:11.0
but in still very, very fragile situations that could lead to war?
03:15.4
I mean, the United States had all sorts of different legislations during the Cold War period,
03:20.1
whereby you're not talking about direct war with the Soviet Union,
03:23.2
but, you know, potentially disastrous, you know,
03:26.9
actions by American officials that could completely undermine their national security.
03:31.9
I mean, obviously, if you watch the movie Oppenheimer,
03:34.0
you would have criticism because it was used to, you know, to red tag essentially.
03:39.9
But nevertheless, in democracy today, in mature democracy today,
03:46.7
do we have any kind of a legal blueprint that we can draw on?
03:51.1
Yes, the U.S., U.K.
03:53.1
and other democracies in EU,
03:57.5
they all have laws even during peacetime because they had this during the Cold War,
04:04.4
a lot of their government officials and citizens were recruited by the KGB.
04:12.2
And so they developed that.
04:14.4
They had to promulgate laws to counter the communist recruitment, the KGB recruitment.
04:23.1
But we did not have that kind of experience.
04:27.3
We just copied our present revised penal code.
04:31.3
It's copied almost verbatim from the revised penal code of Spain.
04:36.3
And it's very old law.
04:44.0
In the case of treason, it applied only during wartime.
04:51.8
So we have to update.
04:53.1
That's why I'm hoping that this legislative inquiry of Santa Riza will move in that direction,
05:02.4
that there is really a gap.
05:03.9
There's a black hole in our legal system.
05:07.6
And we should, because it's not only Duterte.
05:10.6
You have a lot of Filipinos now who are mouthing Chinese propaganda because they're paid by China.
05:18.5
We have a law already.
05:22.2
It was published.
05:23.1
It was enacted during the time of Marcos, during martial law.
05:28.6
It's like all those who are lobbyists for a foreign country must register.
05:37.1
But that's only for purposes of registration.
05:40.7
So you will disclose your transparency.
05:43.9
But we really need something because we may have some military officers who will be recruited by China during peacetime.
05:52.3
That's the problem.
05:55.2
If you are a military officer, you will be governed by the military rules.
06:00.6
You can be subjected to court martial.
06:02.9
But for civilians, there is that very weak provision in the code of conduct for government employees.
06:10.3
Yes, it's a violation.
06:11.7
But this penalty is just dismissal from government office.
06:17.7
Justice, I mean, doesn't that kind of reflect some fundamental issues?
06:23.1
Weaknesses and sense of complacency sa Pilipinas.
06:25.5
I mean, in different episodes with you and other people are in the know, pagdating sa West Philippine Sea,
06:31.0
we discuss a lot about national defense, AFP, external security.
06:35.4
But I find it's quite surprising that, you know, we also have all of these serious gaps domestically also in terms of our legislation.
06:43.2
I mean, medyo masipag naman ang mga abugado natin.
06:46.4
It's not like we're a country shy of making legislations.
06:49.6
I don't want to be too speculative.
06:52.0
But I'm half-shy.
06:53.1
I'm shocked at the fact that all of these decades, you know, we did not try to take care of some of these basic things.
07:00.0
Is it because we were too reliant on the United States throughout the Cold War period and we are still trying to find our own footing?
07:07.2
I mean, what's going on there?
07:09.6
Well, yes, I think we have that gap in the law.
07:16.1
And we have been very cavalier.
07:18.4
In fact, you remember President Duterte.
07:23.1
He allowed Dito, which is practically financed by Chinatel, a Chinese state-owned company, to install their towers in all our military camps.
07:35.3
Can you just imagine that?
07:37.9
Chinese receivers, transceivers will be installed in our military camps.
07:43.7
So they will all collect all the communications of our military.
07:48.0
And, you know, to the credit of our military, they refuse to implement.
07:53.1
They could not, of course, say no directly to the commander-in-chief, President Duterte.
07:59.5
But they just delayed and now they're not implementing it because they know.
08:05.3
But, of course, I wrote about it.
08:08.5
And, of course, like General Esperon, who was head of the NSA at the time, they all defended Duterte.
08:16.1
But the people on the ground knew the injury that could be caused.
08:23.3
So they just refused to implement it.
08:26.1
While their superiors paid lip service to it.
08:32.9
But all of them really didn't want to implement it.
08:35.9
And luckily, not a single tower was installed.
08:42.3
But I think we need really a whole-of-nation approach on national security.
08:50.2
That we should be conscious.
08:53.0
Right now, we allowed in the draft of the amended Public Service Act that Duterte proposed to Congress.
09:04.8
He wanted our telecom company can be 100% owned by China, by foreigners.
09:12.8
And he said, I will give the third telco to China, Chinatel.
09:17.0
Can you just imagine that?
09:18.2
And so what happened here was.
09:23.0
We all worked to stop it.
09:25.7
To create poison pills.
09:29.7
What happened was the intelligence service of the armed forces proposed to Congress to put their subject to national security.
09:40.3
The president can decide not to implement this law allowing foreigners to own 100% of our telecom if it infringes our national security.
09:50.1
So that's one layer.
09:53.0
Other the other the telcos globe and PLDT suggested to Congress that yes foreigners can 100% but not state-owned enterprises because the Chinese telecom companies are state-owned so they were able to insert that and I myself because I was swore it I worked that I suggested to some congressmen that to put their subject to reciprocity.
10:23.7
If we allow China to own 100% of our telecom company, Chinese should also allow us.
10:30.2
But in China, foreigners cannot own a majority of our telecom company because they know telecom company is essential to national security.
10:38.7
You cannot allow foreigners to own your telecom company.
10:42.4
Especially under Chinese law.
10:44.3
All Chinese citizens and companies, wherever they are in the world, are obliged to turn over.
10:52.7
To China, to the Chinese security agencies, any data that they that is in their possession.
11:00.2
So if they establish a telecom tower in Camp Aguinaldo.
11:08.7
And they get all those communications of our general headquarters.
11:15.3
The Chinese who operate the Dito will will be forced to turn over the.
11:22.7
The data to Chinese security agencies.
11:25.9
So there are three layers now that prevent the China tell from gaining majority control of Dito because first, if you're a state-owned company, you cannot own majority of Philippine telecom companies.
11:47.7
Second, the president.
11:50.1
For reasons of national security can prohibit and third, it must be subject to reciprocity and China will never open up their telecom industry to foreign ownership, foreign control, because for them, they cannot.
12:05.5
The essence of the Communist Party, their total control is control of communications.
12:13.8
They cannot allow people to talk freely.
12:16.9
That's why they even have a firewall for the Internet.
12:20.1
They they they have complete surveillance and the they intrude into your privacy.
12:26.6
That's the way to control society and there are communist regime.
12:30.1
So for them, the telecom in comp telecom companies are very important, critical for control for controlling society, and they will never allow foreigners to to control or manage their telecom industries.
12:46.1
So they will that they cannot control.
12:50.1
They cannot comply with that condition subject to reciprocity.
12:53.6
I mean, I would say justice that even some of their supposed private companies, they're being private is questionable, right?
13:01.1
I mean, considering how in China, the government just can come in and take over the company or has essentially, you know, versions of commissars in the Board of Governors.
13:11.1
I mean, there's so many levers that the Chinese government uses and can use to essentially force Chinese companies, even privately owned companies.
13:19.1
I mean, there's so many levers that the Chinese government uses and can use to essentially force Chinese companies, even privately owned companies.
13:20.1
to toe the line, right?
13:21.1
I'll try to put a Fail on there.
13:22.1
I mean, I think Huawei, last time we checked as a private company, but I think no one in any mature democracy would assume that Huawei is not being influenced by the Chinese government one way or another considering how much subsidies and how much direct legal
13:33.6
and political control or the Chinese Communist Party has over practically everything in China, right?
13:42.1
and political control or the Chinese Communist Party has over practically everything in China, right?
13:43.1
So in that case, doesn't this mean that we have to be careful with any kind of deal with any major Chinese company?
13:49.1
far as our critical infrastructure is concerned
13:51.1
which also raises the issue of national grid
13:53.2
right? Because it's not only
13:55.2
the ownership right? It's also the maintenance
13:57.3
the engineering. I mean I think
13:59.1
again a number of senators including
14:01.3
Senator Ontiveros back
14:03.2
in the day, Miriam Defensor and more
14:05.2
recently also Rafi Tulfo have raised issues
14:07.3
about you know essentially Chinese engineers
14:09.4
running the show in some of this
14:15.2
instance. I mean so should we
14:17.1
do something more drastic here
14:19.1
essentially renationalize some of
14:21.2
the sectors or come up with very
14:23.0
explicit national security papers
14:25.0
with respect to China?
14:29.1
national grid I think we have to renationalize
14:31.4
it. We cannot, you know
14:33.0
the Chinese are the one running the
14:35.2
grid. They're technicians.
14:37.2
There was a time when they removed
14:39.0
all the Filipino technicians
14:40.3
and the ESAP complained
14:43.0
the intelligence service of the
14:45.0
armed forces field complained. So
14:47.0
I don't know if they were brought
14:51.6
technical matters under the
14:54.9
national grid is in the hands of the Chinese
14:57.0
and they deny that
14:59.1
it can be shut down from China
15:01.2
but I believe it can be shut
15:03.0
down by China because these are all
15:04.6
done electronically
15:13.1
if you have a house
15:14.7
abroad you can open it from here
15:17.0
the internet. You can start your car
15:19.2
in New York from here
15:20.7
through the internet. So you can
15:23.0
shut down the grid
15:27.8
It's as simple as
15:29.1
that now. So we have to be very
15:30.9
careful about this because
15:32.8
China wants to grab
15:35.2
our maritime zones and
15:37.1
island territories in the West Philippine Sea
15:42.8
conscious of that.
15:46.9
fight China if they can shut down
15:48.8
our national grid?
15:51.2
That's why the Americans in their
15:52.5
sites, they put up their own
15:54.9
generator. They will not rely
15:57.1
on the national grid.
15:59.1
That's how critical it is.
16:02.6
all our camps should have
16:04.8
their own generator because
16:06.0
in case of a conflict in the West Philippine
16:09.0
Sea, China will just switch
16:10.4
off the national grid and all
16:12.8
our camps will go dark.
16:16.9
So again, last time
16:18.9
we checked, this is from the
16:20.7
Arroyo to Aquino era, right?
16:24.2
involved. Yes, that happened. The privatization
16:26.9
happened during the Arroyo
16:30.7
But national grid is like printing
16:33.7
everybody has to pass
16:40.9
through the national grid, all the power.
16:42.6
If you put up a plant in Quezon,
16:44.6
Pabilaw, it has to pass
16:46.7
through the national grid because the power is delivered
16:48.7
in Metro Manila. So it's like
16:52.5
The transport will not move unless
16:54.5
you pass through the tollway and
16:56.5
there will be no electricity in
16:58.5
Manila without that
17:02.6
So it's really, and
17:04.1
it will always be profitable.
17:07.1
There is no way a
17:08.5
national grid can lose money because
17:10.5
you just add on to the
17:13.8
and everybody needs it.
17:16.7
I don't know why it was privatized
17:20.8
so critical for national
17:22.4
security and there's no
17:24.6
way. It was not losing money.
17:26.9
It should not lose money by definition.
17:29.3
If it was losing money,
17:30.7
then there's a lot of corruption there.
17:34.7
just as I don't want to be self-deprecating
17:36.8
too much, but parang
17:37.8
ito is parang medyo banana republic
17:40.7
tayo. I mean, there's so many safeguards,
17:43.4
basic safeguards you would assume
17:44.7
in any serious democracy or
17:46.6
nation states that it looks like
17:48.0
they're really missing in the case of the Philippines.
17:50.6
And honestly, I mean, Duterte being
17:52.5
a lawyer himself, not necessarily the
17:54.5
best lawyer, but being the lawyer himself, perhaps
17:56.3
was aware of a lot of these gaps
17:57.9
in the system that he exploited
18:00.3
on many fronts, particularly
18:02.5
also due to the West Philippine Sea issue. Is that
18:04.4
also your understanding? Yes.
18:06.6
He knew what he was doing, but he did
18:08.6
it. That means it was intentional.
18:10.7
When he said, do not patrol
18:14.6
patrol up to our territorial sea.
18:16.6
He knew the consequences. That means
18:18.4
China will grab our EEZ.
18:20.6
Nobody will oppose China, but he
18:22.5
did it willingly because
18:24.0
he wanted to do it as a
18:26.5
favor for China. It was against their
18:28.4
national interest. That's
18:29.6
why I said in wartime, that would be
18:33.9
peacetime, that's
18:36.6
a culpable violation of the Constitution.
18:38.6
He's an impeachable officer,
18:40.2
but you need Congress to impeach him, and
18:42.4
everyone in Congress will not do
18:48.4
all the congressmen are under the thumb
18:50.5
of the president? Because of the pork
18:52.3
barrel. The Supreme
18:55.4
Congress, when they
18:58.4
passed the general appropriations
19:00.5
act, there would be a line there
19:02.3
that the congressmen can
19:04.2
recommend where the
19:06.0
public works will be
19:08.1
placed in their district.
19:10.6
But the Supreme Court ruled
19:11.9
that is unconstitutional because
19:14.1
Congress can only
19:16.4
legislate. It cannot implement.
19:19.3
That is an executive
19:23.4
but the congressmen
19:26.2
still want their pork barrel. So they put
19:28.1
the entire amount of the pork barrel
19:30.1
in the Department of Public Works.
19:33.7
entirely up to the president
19:36.3
to distribute it. So
19:38.2
you have to now kowtow to the
19:40.3
president to get your
19:46.4
Because you cannot
19:48.1
recommend anymore. And so
19:50.5
the president, Duterte said, okay, I will
19:52.5
give you your pork barrel, but I'll put
19:54.5
here for later release. Remember
19:56.5
that for later release. When
19:58.6
will it be released? After you have
20:00.4
passed the bill allowing
20:02.3
foreigners to own telco.
20:06.4
the Chinatel to be the third telco.
20:09.0
I will also release
20:10.5
it if you cancel the ABS-CBN
20:12.5
franchise. So it was used
20:14.7
in the hands of a president.
20:16.4
With that mentality,
20:21.9
Not to mention the narco-politician
20:24.9
list. I mean, he could
20:26.5
also put you on the list of narco-politicians,
20:28.7
which is even worse, right?
20:34.2
is something that's really
20:35.5
you just have to put a decent man
20:38.5
there. Somebody who's
20:40.4
after the national interest.
20:42.3
In the hands of a president like
20:47.7
Ninoy Pinoy Aquino,
20:50.1
then you can, you know, these are decent people.
20:52.3
They will not do something like that.
20:54.3
But the ends, well, in the hands of a
20:56.0
Marcos Senor or in the hands of
20:58.0
Duterte, it's terrible because
20:59.9
they don't care. They will just, if
21:02.1
they want to give
21:06.9
China to come in and
21:10.1
control our telecom, they will
21:11.9
do it through this pork barrel
21:14.1
because they control
21:16.0
Congress through the pork barrel.
21:21.9
ABS-CBN or any other
21:23.8
broadcast company, they can do
21:26.1
it. They will tell the
21:27.8
congressmen, do not renew
21:29.9
the franchise. Otherwise, you will not
21:32.1
get your budget. So everybody
21:34.0
lined up to vote against
21:36.0
the renewal of the franchise of ABS-CBN.
21:38.5
That was the tool that was used.
21:42.1
Yeah, so that's where we see, I think,
21:44.0
presidential bandwagon system na
21:45.8
sinasabi, no? And it's so easy to bandwagon
21:47.9
around the president or the president
21:50.0
has many whips, right?
21:51.9
To leverage in order to
21:54.1
essentially neutralize
21:55.5
checks and balance. I mean, obviously, we saw
21:57.9
that also most dramatically dun sa
21:60.0
issue ng EJK at saka drug
22:01.8
warning bigong. So, unfortunately,
22:03.9
nagsabay-sabay lahat ang mga buso na yan.
22:06.2
But Justice, before going back again to
22:07.8
this issue ng Ayung and Sol
22:09.3
and the implications of the so-called gentleman's
22:12.0
agreement, I want to also ask,
22:13.9
aren't we concerned that if
22:15.6
ever we pass laws on treason
22:19.6
our existing legal
22:21.4
frameworks, that will also open up
22:23.6
to serious politicization,
22:25.6
right? That every administration will come in
22:27.5
and open up treason cases against the previous
22:29.4
one. I mean, you can
22:31.0
imagine that would have been the case against,
22:33.6
I don't know, Aquino administration back in
22:35.4
the day or intervention by
22:37.5
Senator Trillianis on the Scar Barshal issue,
22:39.5
among others. I see already in comment section, some
22:41.4
of the pro-duterte people here saying,
22:43.8
oh, what about this? What about that?
22:45.6
I mean, how do we also safeguard
22:47.4
against that possibility of very
22:49.5
immature politicians weaponizing this?
22:52.4
It will be subject to abuse
22:53.5
by a president like Duterte.
22:55.7
Like Duterte, what he did was he
22:57.5
canceled the amnesty of Trillianis.
23:00.2
And today, there's an
23:01.6
announcement in the newspaper that the
23:03.7
Supreme Court voided,
23:05.9
declared it unconstitutional.
23:07.4
So, there it is. You know, it's very
23:09.6
important that we elect a decent
23:15.6
given so much power to the
23:17.3
office of the president because
23:19.6
those powers are needed.
23:21.8
But in the hands of
23:25.4
president who has no morals,
23:27.3
who doesn't have the
23:29.5
interest of the nation
23:33.3
then we didn't see these
23:35.4
things happen. Giving
23:37.4
away our exclusive economic zone.
23:40.1
For me, that's really
23:41.0
that's the height
23:45.6
disregard for the national interest.
23:49.9
I would say treason.
23:51.7
But then again, we don't even have a serious
23:55.4
It's really a culpable violation
23:57.8
of the Constitution. And
23:59.2
Congress is supposed to check
24:02.0
that. But since they are under the
24:03.9
thumb, because for later
24:05.8
release funds, they cannot do it.
24:09.9
That's the dynamics
24:11.7
there. And that's why I
24:14.1
we have to do something
24:16.5
about it, because this will
24:18.0
this will really be a big problem
24:22.4
This will magnify
24:24.3
later on into other problems
24:32.1
Yeah. And so therefore,
24:33.4
talagang importante
24:36.0
Rizon Tavares and others to
24:37.9
really in aid of legislation,
24:39.4
not just for political investigation
24:41.3
or anything like that, to do something
24:42.8
about it so that we can
24:45.1
The problem, though, is hindi ba dapat
24:47.0
komiti ng National Defense
24:49.0
or Foreign Affairs?
24:50.4
I mean, Foreign Affairs is under IME.
24:51.9
National Defense is under Jinggoy.
24:54.8
What about, I mean, we also have that
24:56.4
dynamic in the Senate, right?
24:59.5
Yeah. Well, I don't know in what
25:01.3
committee it will be
25:06.8
I think that's the call of
25:10.5
the Senate president and the majority.
25:13.0
They want to be sent.
25:14.1
They want to give it to another committee.
25:17.7
But I suppose it will go to the National Defense, probably.
25:23.2
Yeah, which is, I think, Jinggoy's right.
25:25.1
Or it could go to the committee of
25:27.5
of Senator Padilla,
25:30.9
who chairs the Committee on Revision of Laws.
25:36.9
Of course, our resident constitutional expert, right?
25:40.6
Yes, it can go to that.
25:44.6
And while it should go
25:47.8
properly to the Committee on Revision of Laws
25:51.5
Committee on the Revision of Laws,
25:53.3
and that will be under
25:54.1
Constitutional Amendments.
25:57.8
Yeah, Robin Hood Padilla, apparently.
26:00.1
Robin Hood, that's correct.
26:02.0
Is the real name.
26:06.1
I mean, otherwise, you still have the options of,
26:08.4
I don't know, Committee Ni Bato or
26:10.7
Kayetano. Di ba? I think Kayetano always chares the Committee.
26:13.0
I mean, wouldn't we expect Senator Cayetano to be a little bit more vocal about this issue
26:18.0
considering he was the Foreign Affairs Secretary during whose time allegedly this kind of gentleman's agreement
26:23.7
at least came up, if not agreed upon, per hierarchy.
26:28.7
I mean, why would even a hierarchy make up stuff like that?
26:31.1
I mean, I don't think it serves his interest unless this is about pleasing some people on the other side.
26:38.5
What's going on here?
26:39.8
I don't know what committee chairs.
26:41.8
But in the case of the charter change, you know, charter change would fall under the committee of Senator Robin Hood Padilla
26:51.3
because it's a revision of the Committee on Constitutional Law and Revision of Laws.
26:56.9
But they created the Senate, the Senate President created as subcommittee.
