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00:00.0
Pastor Apollo Kibuloy is still in the Philippines?
00:03.7
Well, I can say that he is still in the Philippine Territory, yes.
00:09.5
What does Philippine Territory mean to you?
00:12.9
Well, within the country, of course.
00:16.7
Okay, so he's in the Philippines?
00:18.6
Yes, yes ma'am, yes ma'am.
00:20.0
Oh, kasi Philippine Territory, ang laki niyan. West Philippine Sea, hanggang doon.
00:24.8
So is he in the Philippines?
00:25.9
He is still in the Philippines. If you note, he had a declaration and he requested only the Philippine government
00:34.7
that there shall be a promise in writing that President Marcos, Justice Secretary Remulia, the PNP Chief,
00:44.4
the NBI Director, that Washington won't interfere in court proceedings here in the Philippines.
00:51.2
And I believe that is not an unreasonable request.
00:55.0
And he merely wants an assurance that he will not be extraordinarily rendered to the United States of America,
01:03.9
which is different from extradition, ma'am Karen.
01:07.6
Okay, explain the difference.
01:10.3
Well, the difference is that in extraordinary rendition, this is the illegal practice by the United States of America,
01:17.3
which was done as early as 1866 until the present,
01:22.7
where the United States of America would,
01:25.0
illegally, extra-legally kidnap certain personalities
01:30.2
and bring them to countries and to territories called black sites
01:34.7
in order to conduct torture or interrogation techniques,
01:40.7
which they call waterboarding and the like,
01:44.0
in order to secure information or for other purposes, ma'am.
01:47.7
If you remember the killing of Abraham Lincoln, the suspect there, John Surat,
01:55.0
in 1866, he was extraordinarily kidnapped in Egypt at that time
02:01.6
and brought to the United States of America.
02:03.9
And other subsequent cases, recent cases, likewise, like the Abu Omar case,
02:09.7
the Al-Nishari case, and other cases.
02:12.1
So, this is the legitimate fear of Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy.
02:17.4
So, Pastor Kibuloy's fear is essentially intervention or interference from the United States.
02:26.9
He simply wants an assurance that there shall be no interference
02:30.6
on the part of the United States of America,
02:33.3
which is a valid request pursuant to the ICJ case, Nicaragua v. U.S.,
02:39.0
which is a principle of non-intervention.
02:42.0
He simply wants that.
02:43.8
Now, Secretary Crispin Remulia has said that he should surrender without conditions.
02:51.7
Well, that's, of course, he is the...
02:55.0
Justice Secretary, and we understand that.
02:58.4
But if you come to analyze the request of Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy,
03:03.3
he is merely a citizen who is asserting his right
03:07.4
that the United States of America should not intervene in the judicial proceedings in the Philippines.
03:12.9
This is pursuant to the social contract theory of our government
03:18.1
upon which the United States of America is founded upon,
03:21.1
and the Philippines likewise.
03:22.6
We surrender some of our rights to the government.
03:25.0
In return, the government should protect us.
03:27.6
Protect us from what?
03:28.4
From foreign interference.
03:29.7
That is an age-old doctrine upon which any Republican government is founded upon.
03:36.9
Social contract theory.
03:38.7
Now, attorney, if the government does not grant this assurance,
03:44.2
what makes of Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy?
03:47.4
Ma'am Karen, he is an accused now indeed because of the warrant of arrest that was issued against him.
03:55.0
the preliminary investigation before the DOJ transpired for more than four years.
04:02.3
And according to Tatad v. Sandigan Bayan,
04:05.2
Kagang v. Sandigan Bayan,
04:06.9
Katamko v. Sandigan Bayan,
04:08.5
and the latest case which I handled also,
04:10.9
Peñas v. Comelec,
04:12.2
which led to the dismissal of more than 1,000 cases,
04:15.1
they violated the right of the accused to speedy disposition of cases.
04:19.7
And this is still pending because we filed a motion for reconsideration in the DOJ,
04:24.2
and we argued that you allowed more than four years for the complainant to prove his case,
04:30.9
and that all of the cases were already dismissed in the DOJ of Davao City two times.
04:38.2
And this has been pending in the DOJ for more than three years.
04:41.7
So we actually invoked that in the Department of Justice,
04:45.6
and today we will file a motion to quash warrant of arrest before the Regional Trial Court of Davao City
04:52.1
because right to speedy disposition of cases is not allowed.
04:54.2
The right to speedy disposition of cases is a substantive right,
04:57.3
and it is a protected right under the 1987 Constitution,
05:01.4
aside from him being innocent of the charges against him.
05:05.7
Okay, let's start first with this.
05:07.6
You talk about four years, right?
05:10.9
But we have to remember that in the last four years,
05:13.6
in the last maybe three of the four,
05:16.9
Pastor Apollo Quibonoy was very close to former President Duterte.
05:21.5
Of course the cases won't move.
05:24.9
Well, no, that's not a reason because the DOJ can always resolve it.
05:30.5
As a matter of fact, we filed motions for early resolution.
05:34.5
Whatever may be the reasons for DOJ not to act is beyond us.
05:39.0
And it is the bounden duty of Department of Justice to speedily resolve cases before it.
05:45.1
That's not a reason on, I think, in my humble view, Ma'am Karen.
05:49.2
Okay, another issue is the DOJ states that,
05:54.3
in this particular case,
05:56.6
the 17-year-old victim alleges a series of abuses that started in 2011
06:03.7
and included a rape in 2014 of September.
06:09.1
Does this 17-year-old also factor in or fare in the previous case?
06:16.2
Ma'am, you have to note that this 17-year-old was earlier filed cyber libel cases as early as 2012.
06:24.5
There were warrants of arrest that were issued against him
06:27.9
by the Regional Trial Court of Panabo City in 2018.
06:32.3
Suddenly, she filed by way of counter-charge in 2019,
06:37.2
specifically December 18 of 2019,
06:39.9
for four cases, one of which was rape.
06:42.6
For a crime that happened as early as September 1 of 2014,
06:46.8
five years thereafter,
06:48.4
there were no police reports, no medical reports.
06:51.3
She even did not report
06:54.2
the matter to her own sister who was also studying with her in JMC.
06:59.3
She did not even report the matter to her own father who was present during that time.
07:03.7
And the selection of date was even very doubtful
07:07.4
because the date that she chose was that she was allegedly 17-year-old
07:13.0
and we have reasons to suspect that she chose that date
07:16.3
so that she would qualify as a minor.
07:19.8
And these matters were fully discussed by the City Prosecutor's Office.
07:24.2
And there were even five prosecutors who studied the case and dismissed the case
07:28.6
and she filed a motion for reconsideration
07:31.1
and the same was likewise denied.
07:33.0
So, all of these matters should have been a closed case
07:35.8
on the part of Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy
07:37.8
and being revived at that time
07:40.2
as if there was an orchestra, a maestro,
07:43.5
playing an orchestra against him.
07:45.7
You should please give him some leeway.
07:47.9
Imagine the disappointment being felt by Pastor Apolo C.
07:55.7
Well, attorney, I don't feel any sympathy for Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy.
08:01.3
And I don't think the Filipino people should either
08:04.0
considering he's a very powerful man.
08:06.8
That's number one.
08:08.1
Number two, on the case of rape that it's reported late,
08:12.2
let me tell you that women don't need to admit they've been raped immediately.
08:17.5
That's been proven.
08:18.9
They don't tell their father, their mother, or their siblings.
08:21.7
But that's not a reason to believe
08:24.2
that the rape didn't actually happen.
08:27.1
And regardless of our report that rape five or six years after the event,
08:32.4
that's still a valid case.
08:34.4
Ma'am, we understand that.
08:35.9
And I don't have anything against women.
08:37.8
My wife is a very beautiful woman.
08:39.7
And of course, she is a woman.
08:41.4
But the fact that Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy may be influential,
08:45.7
that does not mean that he has no rights under the law.
08:48.9
And his rights should likewise be protected.
08:51.3
What is good for the grander should likewise be good for the...
08:54.2
I agree with you.
08:55.2
But are you telling me that these witnesses who have attended the Senate hearings
09:04.4
The Senate hearing is another matter.
09:07.4
Are you believing, honestly speaking, right now,
09:11.3
I mean, in the United States, for example,
09:14.8
there is evidence of Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy child trafficking.
09:21.4
Child trafficking.
09:22.0
Do you honestly believe that he is...
09:26.2
I am assisting likewise there in my own humble capacity
09:30.6
because I cannot...
09:31.8
So why would these women lie?
09:37.1
Why would they lie?
09:37.9
I think you know, ma'am, that I would be incompetent to know...
09:40.7
No, I don't know.
09:42.6
...competent to know what are in the minds of the women.
09:45.5
Why would women lie?
09:47.7
Who would know what is in their minds.
09:49.8
What I know, ma'am, is like this.
09:52.2
These women were former members...
09:54.2
...of Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy.
09:56.9
And the fact remains is that all of their allegations have already been debunked.
10:02.3
And the only woman who filed a case against Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy
10:06.8
is Blenda C. Portugal.
10:09.0
And his allegations were already debunked by the City Prosecution's Office
10:13.2
and the Department of Justice, for lack of a better word,
10:17.3
sat on the case for many years.
10:19.0
And this was only revived at the time when Senator Risa Hontiveros
10:24.2
...investigating in the United States of America.
10:28.1
And as a matter of fact, as you know, there is already a warrant of arrest.
10:31.4
We feel, ma'am, that all of this, according to Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy,
10:37.0
there might be a reason why there was a warrant of arrest that was issued against him
10:41.6
aside from his absence.
10:43.1
There is a reasonable ground to believe that a dice extradition may be in play.
10:50.4
That an informal surrender may be in play.
10:53.0
All right, attorney.
10:54.2
I get your point.
10:55.0
He doesn't want to be extradited.
10:57.1
He doesn't want U.S. intervention.
10:59.5
You've made that clear.
11:00.4
I think the question here is this.
11:04.5
Why would this woman make up a story?
11:08.9
Just give me a reason.
11:11.0
Ma'am, because before she left the kingdom,
11:15.3
there were already a viral video that was posted on Facebook of her...
11:24.2
...being placed in a very scandalous position which she gave to her own boyfriend,
11:31.3
but she leaked it.
11:32.4
And there was also a libel case, libel cases that were filed against her.
11:39.7
Maybe, I can only suppose because you want me to speak for her.
11:43.8
I cannot know what is in her mind.
11:45.5
I'm not Nostradamus.
11:46.9
Maybe this is a way for her to strike back against Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy.
11:51.8
And maybe those forces behind...
11:54.2
...Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy contacted him to bring up trumped-up charges against Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy
12:02.0
so as to get back at Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy.
12:05.2
The possibilities are endless, ma'am.
12:07.1
And I am not in a capacity to say what is in her mind.
12:11.1
Attorney, you believe the FBI would make trumped-up charges?
12:18.3
The charges are filed by individual persons
12:21.9
who were former members of...
12:24.2
...of Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy, who may have...
12:27.0
But there are similar accusations, right?
12:30.1
The FBI cannot make...
12:31.2
There are similar allegations.
12:32.7
The FBI cannot make trumped-up charges
12:35.3
because they are merely authorities who would enforce their laws.
12:40.4
I cannot fault them.
12:41.6
But the fact remains is that there are trumped-up charges
12:45.2
filed against Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy
12:48.1
and FBI has been made an instrument
12:51.3
to perpetuate injustice.
12:54.2
It is against my client.
12:55.9
That is the point, ma'am.
12:57.3
As a matter of fact,
12:59.6
Pastor Apolo C. Kibuloy may not be totally against
13:02.1
an extradition process.
13:04.5
What he fears is the extra-legal,
13:08.5
illegal practice of extraordinary rendition
13:12.1
which happened to Kerr,
13:15.0
which happened to Frisbee,
13:16.7
which happened to Humberto Alvarez-Maquin,
13:20.6
which happened to Elmas Lee.
13:24.2
Elmas Lee was a cleric.
13:25.8
Okay, so you make it clear.
13:27.7
You've made it clear.
13:29.2
So now you're saying he's open to extradition.
13:33.9
He may be open to extradition
13:36.2
because it's a full process.
13:38.3
But I cannot state for certain
13:39.9
if he will agree with me.
13:43.0
But in my previous discussion with him,
13:46.8
well, if extradition, maybe.
13:48.8
But extraordinary rendition, totally no
13:51.8
because that is illegal.
13:53.5
That was illegal.
13:53.7
That was illegal.
13:53.7
That was illegal.
13:53.8
That was illegal.
13:53.8
That was illegal.
13:53.9
That was illegal.
13:53.9
That was illegal.
13:53.9
That was illegal.
13:54.0
That was illegal.
13:54.2
That would constitute a violation
13:55.6
to our territorial sovereignty
13:57.1
and independence of the Republic of the Philippines.
13:58.8
Attorney, I agree with you on that.
14:01.0
I agree with you on that.
14:03.0
Thank you, ma'am.
14:04.3
No U.S. intervention but extradition.
14:06.9
That's allowed by law.
14:09.0
That's allowed by treaty.
14:10.4
So let's move on.
14:13.5
If he is innocent,
14:16.2
why won't he just attend the Senate hearing?
14:20.1
An ordinary Filipino
14:21.6
doesn't have this kind of leeway.
14:23.9
That is why, precisely, if you...
14:27.1
Why doesn't he just attend?
14:29.2
If you have just read and analyzed his declarations,
14:33.6
he wanted that the Philippines would not interfere
14:36.4
in judicial proceedings as well as assure him
14:39.6
that he will not be extraordinarily rendered.
14:42.5
Have you heard about Ramzi Ahmed Yusuf?
14:46.3
Ramzi Ahmed Yusuf, ma'am, was...
14:48.4
Attorney, we are going back.
14:51.1
We are going back to your issues.
14:54.5
But the point is this.
14:56.4
Are you telling me that Pastor Apollo Kibuloy
14:59.1
would rather remain a fugitive
15:01.4
than attend a Senate hearing?
15:03.7
Note, ma'am, that he has still remedies under the law.
15:06.7
The charge against him is still under question.
15:09.2
We still have a motion for reconsideration
15:12.6
and I am filing today a motion to quash the warrant of arrest.
15:16.5
If the warrant of arrest would be rendered void
15:19.5
because the information is void
15:21.6
because the resolution is void,
15:24.8
Because it violated his right to speed the disposition of cases
15:28.3
so there is no arrest against him.
15:30.4
He cannot be classified fully yet as a fugitive from justice
15:35.3
because the charge against him is still under question
15:38.8
and it is one of his rights under the law.
15:41.6
You could not fault him.
15:43.1
I could not force him
15:44.2
because that is his personal decision, ma'am.
15:48.0
That's his personal decision.
15:49.9
Well, number one, I cannot fault him.
15:53.3
For having a lawyer who's doing his job.
15:56.7
Thank you very much.
15:57.7
I have to do my job.
15:58.8
Okay, number two.
16:00.2
But what makes you optimistic
16:01.8
that the local courts will quash the warrant of arrest
16:06.6
considering he has a warrant?
16:09.5
Well, I am a pacifist.
16:10.7
In the United States too.
16:12.6
In other words, in the U.S. he has a warrant.
16:16.1
What makes you think that the local court
16:19.4
will quash the warrant here?
16:22.1
Because I am a positive man, ma'am.
16:25.2
Because of jurisprudence.
16:26.8
Because of Cagang v. Sandigan Bayan.
16:29.3
Tatad v. Sandigan Bayan.
16:31.0
Duterte v. Sandigan Bayan.
16:33.0
Because of Catamco v. Sandigan Bayan.
16:35.5
Because of Joseph Peñas v. Comelec.
16:38.3
It is based on our jurisprudence
16:40.6
that if you violate the rights of an individual
16:43.7
to his right against speedy disposition of cases,
16:48.1
the information is void
16:49.4
and the warrant of arrest is void.
16:52.1
What makes me optimistic?
16:54.8
Simply because I'm a lawyer, I'm a law dean
16:57.3
and therefore since the Supreme Court
16:59.4
has already decided that way,
17:01.3
then therefore res judicata would dictate me
17:05.6
that dictate to me rather
17:08.0
that similar cases just like Pastor Apollo Siquibolo
17:12.4
would be decided in the same way.
17:14.7
Tatad v. Sandigan Bayan,
17:16.1
the delay was not even three years.
17:17.8
In this case, ma'am,
17:19.4
four years and two months is the delay.
17:22.1
I have reasonable grounds to believe
17:25.9
that if this case will reach the Supreme Court ultimately,
17:29.3
it may be denied in the Regional Trial Court.
17:31.7
We will go to the Court of Appeals
17:33.4
and the Court of Appeals may side us, ma'am.
17:36.8
Side with us, rather.
17:39.3
Now, on that note,
17:40.6
I think at the end of the day,
17:43.9
you will file a case.
17:45.9
But what does Pastor Apollo Siquibolo plan to do?
17:50.2
He's just going to remain in hiding.
17:52.1
He already declared his...
17:55.3
Some may not like the word that he demanded.
17:59.3
But actually, there is legal basis to it
18:02.3
because that's pursuant to the social contract theory.
18:06.4
But he still has remedies under the law
18:10.3
as what I have already told you.
18:13.2
And it is within his personal right to decide
18:15.8
whether or not to face the case or not.
18:18.5
A similar case can even be cited.
18:21.6
Senator Lacson likewise faced the same situation in the past.
18:27.8
And the resolution against him was declared as...
18:31.8
His case was dismissed in the Court of Appeals
18:34.3
for lack of probable cause.
18:35.9
There are other cases likewise in the past
18:39.1
whose probable cause was likewise found not to be present
18:46.1
by the Court of Appeals and even the Supreme Court.
18:48.8
So perhaps, just perhaps,
18:50.9
I cannot speculate,
18:51.6
this is one also of the remedies
18:55.5
that are being expected by Pastor Apollo Siquibolo
18:59.0
so that his innocence can be proven without him
19:03.3
actually surrendering.
19:05.6
It's his option, ma'am.
