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00:00.1
Meron na ipinangako yung Pilipinas.
00:02.6
Itutaw natin yung ating BRP Shera Madre sa Yungin.
00:06.4
Nagkaroon po ba ng ganun?
00:07.6
China raw ay hindi nagbigay ng consent to be part of the arbitration
00:11.8
which the Philippines won in 2016.
00:14.4
Ano po ba yung totoo?
00:15.4
Ang magaling sagot dyan, false.
00:25.3
Magandang araw po sa inyong lahat.
00:26.9
Ako po si Christian Esgueran.
00:28.1
Welcome po dito sa very special episode po natin dito sa Facts First Convos.
00:33.1
Dahil makakausap po natin na yung isa po sa mga leading experts ng Pilipinas
00:37.6
parating po dito sa United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea.
00:42.0
So isa po siya rin sa mga instrumental people
00:46.0
dun sa paghahanda po ng ating kaso sa Permanent Court of Arbitration
00:50.6
na alam po natin na panalunan po natin in 2016.
00:53.7
So he is at present our ambassador to Turkey
00:58.0
I'd like to welcome to our Facts First Convos
01:00.7
si Ambassador Henry Benzurto Jr.
01:04.0
Magandang araw, sir.
01:04.9
Magandang umaga, Christian.
01:06.5
Magandang umaga rin sa mga tagapakinig mo at tagasin mo.
01:10.6
Finally, nagkausap tayo in the flesh na dahil gusto ko online.
01:14.5
Virtual, virtual.
01:16.3
Kumusta, sir? How are you doing now?
01:19.4
I'm settled down in Turkey.
01:22.6
And I'm already rolled my sleeves.
01:28.0
And doing the work.
01:29.5
But of course, as you speak about Turkey,
01:32.0
you still think about your country in terms of what it's experiencing.
01:38.0
Yes, sir. Konting balik tanaw.
01:40.3
Can you talk about your role dun sa pagre-ready ng ating case against China
01:46.1
na alam po natin na panalunan natin noong 2016?
01:48.8
Yes. During that time, of course,
01:51.0
the administration of President Aquino and Secretary Albert Del Rosario,
01:58.0
I was asked by the Secretary to help him address or help him in addressing the issue of the South China Sea.
02:06.0
And so, of course, as a professional diplomat or a career diplomat,
02:11.8
obviously, it's my role and function and obligation to help the Secretary of Foreign Affairs
02:18.4
in terms of how to manage and how to approach the South China Sea.
02:23.6
And therefore, I did help the Secretary and the Department,
02:27.6
and the President in terms of managing the issues in the South China Sea.
02:33.1
Kasi noong mga panahon na yun, that was the time na medyo lumulutang na yung problema.
02:38.7
For many years, yung problema nandun.
02:41.9
Pero hindi natin masyadong binibigyan ng pansin
02:44.8
because we thought everything can be resolved peacefully and through negotiation.
02:51.3
This was before the standoff ng Scarborough?
02:53.1
Before the standoff.
02:55.5
Even before that administration.
02:57.6
When the administration of President Aquino came into power.
03:00.9
Ah, so pinag-aaralan nyo na?
03:01.9
So, can you say, in a sense,
03:03.9
ah, immediately after, during Mischief Reefs,
03:07.4
of course, nandyan pa rin yung mga issues,
03:09.4
ah, the government has been addressing that.
03:14.0
Managing it, trying to resolve it, pero nandun pa rin pala.
03:20.6
And so, it was a learning process for us also.
03:23.6
It gave us an idea exactly what China's strategy was and where exactly we were heading.
03:32.3
So, in a sense, it gave us a very good historical perspective.
03:37.3
An opportunity to take stock kung ano yung ginagawa natin, may ma-review natin,
03:44.3
and what should we tinker with and calibrate so that we're able to approach and manage
03:52.8
ah, this issue very well.
03:55.6
And in the process of that, obviously, we have to look at all options available to us.
04:02.6
And ah, in that context, therefore, one creative option is the third-party adjudication.
04:09.6
Arbitration na napanalo na natin.
04:11.6
And eventually, arbitration as the specific modality for third-party adjudication.
04:17.6
By the way, I'll make a disclaimer, no?
04:26.6
I am not the spokesman of the Department of Foreign Affairs or the government.
04:27.6
Ah, and therefore, although I belong to the Department of Foreign Affairs, the views I
04:32.6
will express here are my personal views and do not necessarily reflect ah, the views
04:39.5
of the institution to which I belong.
04:42.7
Mabalinaw po yan.
04:44.7
And I do not wish to make pretensions in terms of getting the job of, ah, officialOSS person.
04:47.7
Butter, ambassador.
04:48.7
In all humility, ay-ay-ay-ay-ay.
04:50.7
It's just that he's a executive Myself!
04:52.8
Sobrang baite ang buzzer
04:55.4
At least malinaw po
04:56.5
Pero balikin natin
05:02.4
Or influence operations
05:03.6
Being done by China
05:04.7
Para ma-correct yung mga
05:06.9
Pero pag-usapan muna natin
05:09.1
Kasi medyo mukhang maraming
05:10.7
Pilipino nakakalimot
05:12.0
Gano'n po baka importante
05:14.2
Permanent Court of Arbitration
05:17.2
Both as a legal victory
05:20.4
Asserting our rights
05:21.5
Dito sa West Philippine Sea
05:23.3
Na hindi lang purely legal eh
05:25.3
Merong political aspect yan eh
05:26.9
So about the importance first
05:30.0
Arbitration is very important
05:32.0
I-reduce muna natin
05:34.3
In the micro level
05:37.1
For those who are religious
05:38.6
Can always refer to the Bible
05:40.2
Which in a way also reflects
05:42.1
The psychology of human beings
05:44.2
As a social animal
05:45.5
We know na pagka may mga
05:49.1
Hindi pagkakain diyan
05:50.3
We try to resolve
05:53.6
And you will also
05:56.3
Na pag hindi kayo nagkaintindihan
05:58.2
Then that's the time
05:59.5
You bring in a third party
06:01.6
He can be objective
06:03.4
And then give his opinion
06:06.0
Essentially gano'n
06:07.2
And I think for those
06:08.7
Who are religious
06:09.7
And I do not wish to
06:12.0
Put any religiosity on this
06:15.4
Pero that's also reflective
06:17.1
Of the human nature
06:24.1
It becomes a community
06:25.8
We create institutions
06:28.3
That these disputes
06:33.6
Disputing parties
06:35.5
Meron kang third party
06:42.8
And has jurisdiction
06:44.1
In the context of the
06:46.2
International also
06:47.6
Because the Philippines
06:48.6
Is one of the members of the Philippines
06:51.1
Is one of the members of the
06:52.1
Community of Nations
06:53.1
So we have a community
06:56.1
We are not separated
06:58.1
Of other countries
07:01.1
So in that context
07:03.1
It's very important
07:04.1
To have that concept
07:06.1
Because that is the tie
07:07.1
That binds us all
07:08.1
In that community
07:09.1
The ability of states
07:20.2
Follow certain norms
08:19.2
That's the question
08:21.2
Under international
08:32.2
Based on sovereign
08:44.2
Give our consent?
11:44.1
Yung maritime entitlements
11:48.3
Maritime entitlement
11:49.8
Is a very important provision
11:54.2
Outside of those exceptions
11:57.9
Doon sa three na yun
12:00.9
We have no problem with that
12:02.5
And they opted out
12:04.6
We're okay with that
12:05.6
But the consequence
12:07.5
Ang ibig sabihin nun
12:11.8
Where they're allowed to opt out
12:15.3
So simplihan natin
12:16.0
Para dun sa mga baka nalilito
12:17.3
Very technical kasi no
12:18.9
Kasi ang ginawa ng China
12:20.2
When the Philippines
12:21.2
Nung nag-file po tayo
12:22.4
Ng arbitration case
12:26.9
We won't participate
12:28.0
And they didn't participate no
12:30.1
Pero dahil yung consent
12:31.0
Binigay nila nila
12:31.7
The moment they signed
12:32.6
And ratified own clause
12:37.2
Ni-ratify nila yung own clause
12:44.5
With all the legal consequences
12:47.4
Of the provisions
12:50.2
Isa po pong binabati dyan
12:52.7
Yung sinasabi ngayon ng China
12:54.9
Meron dahil pinangako
12:57.4
Na itotow natin yung ating
13:00.8
BRP Shera Madre sa Yungin
13:02.6
As far as you know
13:04.1
Matagal na po kayo sa DFA
13:05.4
Nagkaroon po ba ng ganoon
13:06.8
Tapos di ba lately lumalabas
13:09.4
Attorney Harry Roque
13:10.8
Nagkaroon daw ng gentleman's agreement
13:12.6
Between the President din
13:18.7
I have no knowledge of that
13:24.4
The issue was first brought
13:27.9
Ang pumapasa po sa atin yan
13:30.9
Wala namang official agreement
13:35.6
Wala namang din po
13:37.8
That we committed that
13:39.5
Normally yung mga ganyang commitment
13:42.6
A very serious commitment
13:47.9
O nandyan yung barko
13:50.1
Dahil di ba narinig natin na
13:53.0
Nag-commit daw yung ating
13:55.1
Gobyano or somebody
13:56.8
Na at some point tatanggalin
14:02.3
Napakabigat na commitment yan
14:04.5
And it has to be done within the proper
14:08.1
Wala pong ganong context
14:11.5
Yung mga ganyang commitment na
14:12.6
Yung mga ganyang kabigat
14:15.8
Dapat nilalagay in writing
14:20.7
In international negotiations
14:22.6
Importante yung tinatawag nating
14:25.6
When you negotiate
14:27.9
Sino-sino lang ang pwedeng mag-commit ng
14:37.6
Kapangyarihan na i-commit yung bansa
14:40.1
They have full powers from the president
14:42.1
Para mag-negotiate
14:46.5
Wala naman pong ganyan din
14:49.3
Dito sir, binabangin dyan ang context
14:51.2
When it comes to such a serious agreement as that
14:54.0
Ano ba yung konteksto na yan?
14:55.4
Kung sakali man gusto natin
14:58.0
Pumayag man tayo na ito yun
15:01.0
Ano ba dapat yung proper channels or procedure?
15:04.6
Briefly describe to you
15:07.3
Yung how agreements are entered into
15:10.1
So bago yung mga tao
15:11.9
Mag-negotiate or to agree
15:13.3
Because apparently this is an agreement
15:15.3
And a very serious one
15:17.7
Pinag-aaralan yan
15:19.7
Pinag-iisipan yan
15:21.0
And if that commitment
15:24.6
You want it to be legally binding
15:28.9
May proseso po yun
15:30.4
Ang proseso po nun
15:31.8
Yung mga mag-negotiate
15:33.1
Meron silang full powers
15:34.6
From the president
15:36.6
To agree and to commit
15:38.3
With that full power
15:43.3
There is a ratification process
15:45.2
So meron din pong format
15:46.9
O forum na tinatawag natin
15:48.6
Formal negotiations
15:49.9
Lahat po yan absent
15:54.9
Walang full powers
15:56.2
Wala rin naman pong tao na
15:58.8
In a point para mag-commit nyan
16:01.9
Wala rin agreement
16:04.9
Everything is in the aspect of allegation
16:09.6
By the other part
16:11.7
At walang nagsasabi
16:13.8
Panahon ni Erap Estrada
16:16.7
Wala pa akong nadinay kay Gloria
16:22.4
The other question is
16:24.2
Can something as serious
16:25.9
As preserving the status quo
16:31.7
Simply with a gentleman's agreement
16:33.6
Handshake lang between the president then
16:36.3
At the end of the day
16:37.7
Depende sa arrangement
16:39.5
But if that arrangement
16:42.7
Ay yung agreement na simsabi
16:45.6
Redounds to surrendering your sovereignty
16:50.6
That can't be done
16:51.9
Because no person
16:53.8
From this country
16:56.3
Can lose a territory
16:59.9
O hindi po sila empowered
17:04.5
In fact it is a constitutional duty
17:09.3
Especially the president, congress
17:11.2
To put their hands up
17:11.7
To protect the sovereignty
17:13.3
So yung agreement po
17:15.3
Is an indirect giving out
17:17.3
Hindi po pwede po yun
17:20.6
There is a process
17:21.9
Tsaka pinag-uusapan po yan
17:23.6
Especially if it concerns a territory
17:26.4
You cannot give away a territory
17:28.8
Nobody's in power
17:30.0
There is a process for that
17:32.1
So yun sir, i-clarify kayo
17:33.2
Marami kayong words na binanggit
17:34.6
Territory, sovereignty
17:36.4
Tapos sovereign rights
17:37.7
Isa-isa yun po natin
17:38.8
Kasi based on what has been made public
17:42.4
Diba, kinonfirm naman ni Harry Roque
17:44.5
Status ko yung pinag-uusapan
17:46.7
Pag sinayang bang status ko
17:48.4
Under a gentleman's agreement
17:51.0
Ano yung status ko?
17:53.7
Madaming best natin narinig yung status ko
17:55.9
And so we have to understand it
17:58.1
In all its facets
17:59.6
In the first place
18:01.1
We have to ask a question
18:02.2
Ano ba yung status ko?
18:04.7
Are we referring to the status ko
18:06.6
Na every time pupunta dayan
18:11.7
Ang dadaling lang natin
18:14.4
Status ko ba yung
18:16.7
Okay lang na nandyan yung
18:18.3
Coast Guard ng China?
18:20.8
If this is the status ko
18:22.9
That we are referring to
18:28.1
That's not the status ko
18:30.6
That is consistent with our national interest
18:33.6
If we agree to that kind of status to
18:38.9
To giving away your rights
18:41.7
Over your own property
18:42.8
Sa madaling salita po
18:44.0
Merong kang bakod
18:46.8
Merong ka ng pinanghahawakan na titulo doon
18:52.4
Pero yung kapitbahay mo
18:54.4
Mas malaka sa iyo
18:56.5
Ah hindi ka ba sa puwenta?
18:57.8
Hindi pupunta ako
18:58.5
Ayusin ko lang yung
19:02.7
Bibigyan ko lang ng pagkain
19:06.7
Hindi naman pwede
19:07.6
Status ko ba sa akin
19:11.7
Hindi rin tama yan
19:13.8
If that is the kind of status ko
19:16.3
That we are referring to
19:19.1
That's very dangerous
19:22.3
Amounts to giving up
19:26.1
Especially sa probinsya
19:27.4
Pag pinabayaan mo yung tao dyan
19:29.2
After a period of time
19:30.7
Nasanin na siya dyan
19:32.4
And you will lose it
19:34.4
And so we have to be able
19:35.8
To think strategic
19:38.2
In terms of the implications
19:40.3
Of what we do now
19:41.7
You don't try to avoid
19:46.4
Because it's been being used
19:48.6
In order to create one in the future
19:52.5
You want peace now
19:53.6
Something that will be lasting
19:56.3
And what that means is
19:57.9
If you want it durable
19:58.9
That kind of peace
20:00.4
Must be respectful
20:02.8
Of other countries' rights also
20:06.8
When we are able to respect
20:08.9
The rights of everyone
20:10.7
Will we be able to give importance
20:13.6
And that's when there is mutual respect
20:17.0
That other party is in your land
20:21.5
And they are creating
20:23.1
A quote-unquote status quo
20:25.5
Na we have to ask for their permission
20:27.6
We have to qualify the activity
20:31.1
At bawal i-repair
20:35.3
What is in our backyard
20:36.8
That it's okay for us
20:41.2
In our own backyard
20:43.8
Because the moment
20:45.1
We agree to that kind of status quo
20:47.9
That agreement to that status quo
20:51.0
Actually amounts to giving up
20:54.9
Assuming na nagkaroon nga po
20:56.7
Ng gentleman's agreement
20:57.9
Although dininay naman ito ni
21:02.5
Sapat na ba yung sinabi
21:04.4
In an interview ni President Marcos po
21:07.0
Kung meron mang ganyan
21:09.4
At saka yung ganun po
21:11.2
Void from the very beginning
21:12.4
Kung yun ang konteksto na
21:16.4
If there is any act
21:21.1
A property of yours
21:23.5
That's null and void
21:25.6
From the very beginning
21:26.6
Especially if it does not
21:28.8
Go through the constitutional processes
21:31.6
Nabanggit ko po yung process of negotiation
21:35.2
And how a country can commit
21:37.2
Because it's very possible
21:39.8
To agree on the limitation
21:43.3
You give away some
21:45.6
That's part of the negotiation
21:48.8
Pardon me for saying
21:50.0
Not any Tom, Dick and Harry
21:52.5
And not any person can do that
21:55.1
There is a process
21:56.0
Even the President?
21:57.1
The President by himself
21:58.2
That's very dangerous also
22:00.9
Our kind of democracy
22:06.1
We have the Congress
22:09.1
And there is a process
22:09.7
And there is a process also
22:10.9
There has to be a
22:11.8
A referendum perhaps
22:13.7
Or a plebiscite perhaps
22:17.0
A decision of one person
22:19.8
In the maritime delimitation
22:23.5
The maritime delimitation
22:26.3
That went through a process
22:28.0
What was that process?
22:30.0
Negotiating panels
22:31.5
Both from Philippines and Indonesia
22:35.1
Where the boundary would be
22:36.8
And then after there was an agreement
22:38.9
They had to negotiate
22:39.7
To put powers to sign
22:44.0
It was not yet in effect
22:45.3
It was just ratified
22:49.3
That aspect of agreeing
22:52.4
Whenever you agree
22:54.2
You lose something
22:56.6
And that losing something
22:57.9
Whether it's a sovereign rights
22:59.4
Or a piece of property
23:02.2
It went through that process
23:04.2
And so it was not just one person
23:09.1
Knowing the process
23:10.5
Did not do it that way
23:12.5
Because we are a country
23:17.0
We are a democratic
23:21.1
That is constitutional
23:22.7
And so that was the
23:24.5
Regular constitutional process
23:26.7
Of entering into a maritime delimitation
23:29.0
In a way you can say
23:30.0
We give up something
23:31.4
In order to gain something
23:32.9
And that process was not done
23:36.1
And not in one single stroke
23:39.1
Or gentleman's agreement
23:43.4
Pledge negotiation
23:49.2
Constituted and appointed
23:50.9
And the agreement
23:54.8
With the constitutional process
23:58.1
That maritime delimitation agreement
24:01.3
On exclusive economic zone
24:03.2
Between Indonesia
24:04.6
And the Philippines
24:05.9
Even if it was signed
24:09.1
On the constitution
24:09.1
Until it was ratified
24:11.7
By our own congress
24:13.3
With that ratification
24:21.7
Delimiting our exclusive economic zone
24:24.5
In a way giving up some
24:29.7
That is constitutionally valid
24:34.1
That is the process
24:35.9
That is legitimate
24:37.0
That is constitutional
24:39.1
Whenever you talk
24:42.2
Of your territory
24:43.1
The protocol is clear
24:46.3
This is what I also want to ask
24:47.7
To your ambassador
24:48.6
What is the protocol
24:51.6
It's not a big deal
24:52.2
It's not a big deal
24:55.5
The president of the Philippines
24:58.5
With the president
24:59.2
Of another country
25:01.6
About this serious thing
25:06.3
Or who are the ones
25:10.4
What should they do
25:11.5
So that it's clear
25:13.3
What they're talking about
25:17.7
Or every decision maker
25:19.6
Will have their own style
25:31.3
Of the individual
25:35.0
How to conduct it
25:36.7
That's the first point
25:46.1
Within the absolute
25:52.0
Or of the president
25:53.4
Even the president
25:55.1
When he goes there
26:02.8
And in that context
26:18.2
That our president
26:19.5
Is the chief architect
26:20.7
Of our foreign policy
26:24.0
As a chief architect
26:28.9
Putting his own style
26:31.5
His own appreciation
26:34.4
But it doesn't mean absolute
26:37.4
Part of that process
26:40.3
By which he can exercise
26:43.2
Will always be limited
26:45.0
By the constitutional
26:48.8
So then an ambassador
26:49.9
Close to a meeting
26:51.4
Between the president
26:52.4
Of the Philippines
26:53.6
And let's say China
26:55.9
Nagtitake ng notes nun?
26:58.0
Are they bound to
26:59.0
To come up with a report
27:00.2
Right after that?
27:01.1
Para in black and white
27:05.3
It's not a rigid process
27:08.1
Or a high-level process
27:09.0
Or a hard and fast rule
27:13.0
Individual president
27:14.3
Will have his own style
27:15.7
But as a matter of prudence
27:21.3
Taking down notes
27:23.5
Should take into account
27:26.4
So that the conversation
27:33.1
Or everybody's comfortable
27:39.9
That prohibits that
27:41.0
Actually it will depend
27:46.4
Proceed on that basis
27:51.2
He will be mindful
27:53.8
And he should be mindful
27:55.1
Of all the policy considerations
27:57.2
All the processes
28:00.1
On what to commit
28:00.9
And what not to commit
28:02.2
And we also have to trust
28:04.9
Whenever he does that
28:09.4
He must have the full trust
28:12.2
Of the entire nation
28:20.6
Those considerations
28:22.8
Whether it's right
28:24.2
Whether it's legal
28:25.1
Whether it's constitutional
28:28.5
Yan natanong ambassador
28:30.5
Paano kung nadulas
28:33.2
Assuming tama yung sinasabi
28:36.5
Or nasabi niya talaga
28:37.6
Gentleman's agreement
28:38.7
At ipinaliwanan nyo
28:40.5
Kung bakit mali yun
28:41.4
E kung lumabas nga
28:42.7
Sa bibig niya yun
28:45.3
Parang protection natin
28:46.8
Against someone like that
28:49.8
Not allowed in our constitution
28:53.1
And this is hypothetical
29:07.6
And because of the
29:08.5
Constitutional processes
29:09.8
There will be certain procedures
29:11.8
To correct that naman
29:12.9
And it should be corrected
29:15.6
But if it is beyond
29:22.6
It cannot be that
29:23.8
Pero the fact na ginagamit
29:26.0
Kasi siya ng China eh
29:27.6
Over and over again
29:31.9
We don't even know actually
29:33.4
Kung under President Duterte
29:35.0
Yung sinasabi nila
29:36.4
Nag-commit daw to
29:41.4
Pwedeng gamitin for propaganda
29:47.6
Allege whatever they wish to allege
29:49.8
We should assume that
29:52.9
The process of signing
29:54.8
The process of ratification
29:56.5
The process of the
29:58.2
Constitutional requirement
30:00.3
To ratify an action
30:04.0
Who negotiated for the Philippines
30:07.4
They should be aware
30:08.4
Because it's not that
30:09.4
We have this relation
30:12.4
We have been engaged with them
30:15.4
International law
30:16.4
So they are aware
30:17.4
Of these processes
30:19.4
They cannot just allege
30:20.4
Something like that
30:21.4
And not provide the evidence
30:22.4
And if ever that was true
30:24.4
It will have no basis
30:25.4
Because it did not go through
30:26.4
The process of ratification
30:27.4
Assuming for example
30:29.4
That the President makes
30:31.4
That the President makes
30:33.4
That the President makes
30:35.4
That the President makes
30:37.4
If he is really serious about that
30:39.4
He will submit it for
30:44.4
To transform that commitment
30:46.4
Into an agreement
30:47.4
Locking that requirement
30:50.4
Is just a personal
30:57.4
That binds the two countries
31:01.4
Disinformation coming out
31:04.4
They are trying to
31:06.4
The Ayungin Shoal
31:09.4
Of the South China Sea
31:13.4
I have become even more kinder
31:14.4
I have become even more kinder
31:17.4
In the PCA ruling
31:19.4
The Ayungin Shoal
31:21.4
Low tide elevation decision
31:28.4
To understand that
31:31.4
Give a little background
31:36.4
Starting from the
31:38.4
There are three kinds of
31:43.4
First principle is
31:44.4
You cannot own the water
31:49.4
The Pacific Ocean
31:56.4
It's not possible
31:58.4
The law does not allow that
32:03.4
Maritime entitlement
32:05.4
Anchored on the land
32:06.4
This is the principle of
32:07.4
Land dominating the sea
32:11.4
Entitlements over the sea
32:15.4
It has entitlement
32:22.4
If this is the island
32:25.4
But if the island is not
32:26.4
They can't have rights
32:29.4
What China is saying
32:30.4
In its nine-dash line
32:32.4
They have historic
32:44.4
Going back to the principle
32:51.4
But there are three kinds
32:55.4
The first classification
33:10.4
Exclusive economic zone
33:17.4
Pero hindi naman talaga siya
33:21.4
Capable of sustaining
33:24.4
Ito yung tawag nating
33:27.4
Ang pinakaiba nya
33:31.4
Yung unang category
33:35.4
Tsaka economic life
33:37.4
Then it will generate
33:38.4
The full entitlement
33:43.4
Hindi siya capable
33:50.4
Ang magi-generate
33:52.4
12 nautical miles
33:55.4
Ito yung tinatawag nating
33:56.4
Low tide elevation
34:04.4
Low tide nakikita mo
34:05.4
And then you can go there
34:06.4
Pero nawawala siya
34:08.4
Pag nawala siya ng
34:12.4
Eh ang tawag dyan
34:13.4
Low tide elevation
34:14.4
Under international law
34:16.4
Yang low tide elevation na yan
34:19.4
That will generate
34:20.4
Maritime entitlement
34:24.4
A continental shelf
34:26.4
As a continental shelf
34:28.4
Kaninong continental shelf
34:31.4
Is a question of proximity
34:33.4
So kung nandun siya
34:35.4
Nang isang coastal state
34:37.4
Continental shelf siya
34:41.4
Nung state na yan
34:42.4
Which in this case
34:46.4
It's not a territory
34:48.4
Since it's not a territory
34:49.4
There cannot be a territorial dispute
34:53.4
Tagalogin natin sir
34:54.4
Yung continental shelf
34:56.4
Yung continental shelf po
34:59.4
Pag nagpupunta kayo
35:02.4
Wala naman po kasing
35:03.4
Isla na lumulutang
35:05.4
Meron po siyang continuity
35:10.4
Yan po yung tinatawag natin
35:11.4
Continental shelf
35:13.4
Yung continental shelf
35:15.4
From the low water mark
35:17.4
Ang low water mark
35:18.4
Yan po yung baseline
35:19.4
If it's a normal baseline
35:20.4
Yung low water mark po
35:21.4
Kapag punta kayo sa Boracay
35:23.4
Continental shelf
35:25.4
Yung continental shelf
35:27.4
From the low water mark
35:29.4
Kapag punta kayo sa Boracay
35:30.4
May dalawa kayong nakikitang linya
35:31.4
Yung linya na nakikreate ng high tide
35:32.4
Tapos yung linya na nakikreate ng low tide
35:33.4
Yung po yung low water mark
35:37.4
Yan ang continental shelf mo
35:38.4
Magbilang ka ng 200
35:40.4
At yung ayung insyol
35:58.4
So tribunal simply confirm
36:00.4
What international principles
36:04.4
And they confirm na
36:08.4
Ano ba yung ayung insyol
36:10.4
On the question of fact
36:13.4
O low tide elevation
36:22.4
Hindi po hulaan na
36:25.4
But based on science
36:29.4
Is low tide elevation
36:30.4
Ang ibig pong sabihin nun
36:35.4
Hindi dahil sinabi ni Juan
36:40.4
Pag apply ng science
36:54.4
Low tide elevation
36:56.4
Once you have answered the question
36:57.4
Law tide elevation siya
36:58.4
Ano nga yun ang implication niya
36:59.4
So ang implication niya
37:00.4
Under international law
37:01.4
As a low tide elevation
37:03.4
Hindi siya pwedeng mag-generate ng
37:04.4
Maritime entitlement
37:06.4
Continental shelf siya
37:08.4
As to the question of
37:09.4
Kaninong continental shelf
37:11.4
Kung ano yung malapit na
37:13.4
Minesure niya yung
37:15.4
Lumabas sa kanyang
37:16.4
Continental shelf
37:18.4
As to the question of
37:19.4
Kaninong continental shelf
37:21.4
Kung ano yung malapit na
37:23.4
Minesure niya yung
37:25.4
Lumabas sa kanyang
37:29.4
Wala tayong kalaban
37:30.4
Walang overlap doon
37:33.4
Na continental shelf siya
37:38.4
Tsaka pag tininan po natin yung mga para
37:39.4
Napakalayo ng China
37:40.4
Doon sa Ayung insyol
37:41.4
Sila yung garapal na
37:44.4
Tsaka hindi lang yun
37:45.4
Kahit na pagpalagin natin
37:46.4
Yung mga ibang bato doon
37:52.4
O may ibang nakatira
37:55.4
Maritime entitlement
37:56.4
Yung mga bato niyan
38:09.4
Malinaw po sa batas no?
38:11.4
So maling sabihan
38:12.4
Let's say even in reports
38:13.4
Na yung Ayung insyol
38:20.4
Kung sino man yung nagsasabi na
38:24.4
Paano ba nagiging
38:27.4
Territoryo ba yan?
38:30.4
Continental shelf
38:31.4
So kung hindi siya
38:33.4
Hindi siya pwedeng
38:36.4
Territorial dispute
38:44.4
So hindi siya pwedeng
38:47.4
Factually na po ito
38:49.4
And because it's not a
38:52.4
Continental shelf
39:00.4
Therefore be a subject
39:12.4
Sinong coastal state?
39:16.4
Continental shelf siya
39:21.4
Yung continental shelf
39:22.4
Ng isang coastal state
39:25.4
We have the exclusive
39:30.4
Exclusively po ha
39:31.4
Sa salitang Tagalog po
39:33.4
Excluded ang ibang
39:47.4
Masi-flash out pa po natin
39:48.4
Yung binanggit na no?
39:50.4
In concrete terms
39:51.4
Ano yung mga pwedeng
39:56.4
Naran din yung barko natin
40:02.4
Yung low tide elevation na yan?
40:07.4
Gagawin sa Iungin Shoal
40:08.4
Isa lang pong bansa
40:09.4
Ang pwedeng magpasya niyan
40:11.4
Kung kaninong continental shelf siya
40:13.4
Yung bansa na yun
40:19.4
Ang pwedeng gawin
40:20.4
Doon sa shoal na yun
40:22.4
Kung gusto niyang
40:27.4
Kung gusto natin gawin
40:28.4
Military garrison
40:31.4
Kung gusto natin gawin
40:36.4
Kung tayo may ganong karapatan
40:38.4
May ganong karapatan
40:44.4
Hindi naman po nila
40:45.4
Continental shelf yun
40:49.4
Hindi nila pwedeng sabihin
40:50.4
Hindi nila pwedeng sabihin
40:51.4
Disputed namin yan
40:53.4
So wala po talagang basihan
40:55.4
By which yung ayung in shoal na yun
40:57.4
E kanilang ang kinin
41:00.4
Ang implication din nung ganun
41:04.4
Harangan yung ating mga
41:11.4
Hindi rin po pwedeng
41:12.4
Umistambay sila doon
41:13.4
Meron silang freedom of navigation
41:17.4
But freedom of navigation
41:18.4
Is different from
41:19.4
Sovereignty patrol
41:20.4
When they conduct
41:22.4
And do sovereignty patrol
41:24.4
Hindi na po yung consistent
41:27.4
In terms of freedom of navigation
41:30.4
Is an act of sovereignty already
41:33.4
By another country
41:34.4
Indicating that they are claiming that
41:38.4
Because they have no right
41:42.4
Eh ito eh hindi lang pagkakasunduan
41:44.4
Eh meron na pong tribunal
41:47.4
Constituted within
41:49.4
The context of international law
41:51.4
That legitimately
41:54.4
Na wala silang karapatan
41:56.4
So all things considered po
41:57.4
Talagang walang basihan mo
42:01.4
Yung panalo natin dyan
42:03.4
Pero ano yung mga options po
42:04.4
Na pwede natin gawin
42:05.4
Kasi ang reality is that
42:06.4
We're being prevented by China
42:08.4
From doing our own thing
42:10.4
Gaya sa sarili nating bakuran
42:14.4
Meron pa ba tayo pwedeng dulugan
42:17.4
Unang una ang importante
42:18.4
We're all settled
42:19.4
Na tayong may karapatan dyan
42:22.4
Kung tayo may karapatan dyan
42:24.4
Hindi naman po pwedeng
42:27.4
I-assert yung ating karapatan dyan
42:30.4
Kasi parang katulad ng natin
42:32.4
Pag meron tayong lupain sa probinsya
42:34.4
At hindi natin binibisita
42:38.4
Gumagawa ng acts of ownership
42:40.4
Eh yung mga ibang tao
42:42.4
Pwede pong magpunta
42:45.4
At pag hindi po natin
42:47.4
Over a period of time
42:49.4
Magiging kanila po yun
42:54.4
Parang professional squatting
42:55.4
Parang ganito po sa batas
42:56.4
It's not exactly the same
42:59.4
Just so that we have
43:02.4
Domestically speaking
43:05.4
Pagka may lupa ka
43:07.4
Nagbabayad ka ng amilyar
43:10.4
Alam natin na iyan
43:11.4
Pero pag hindi mo napupuntahan
43:13.4
Hindi pinabayaan mo
43:15.4
May pumunta po doon
43:20.4
Over a period of time
43:22.4
Kung builders on good faith
43:24.4
Pagka builders on bad faith
43:26.4
Alam nila na hindi kanila yan
43:30.4
Ito po yung tinatawag nating
43:33.4
Under international po
43:35.4
Pag pinabayaan natin
43:37.4
Pwede po yung mag mature
43:38.4
Into what we call
43:39.4
Effective jurisdiction
43:41.4
Ang pwede pong gamitin
43:42.4
Nung kabilang bansa
43:44.4
Ah meron kaming effective jurisdiction
43:47.4
For so many years
43:49.4
Idedemonstrate nila
43:54.4
That we have been doing
43:57.4
At na humingi ng permiso sa kanila
44:02.4
Gentleman's agreement
44:03.4
Na ipagpapaalam natin
44:08.4
Hindi kami maglalagay ng
44:10.4
Construction materials
44:13.4
Acts of ownership
44:16.4
So they are evidence
44:19.4
That they are exercising
44:21.4
Effective jurisdiction
44:23.4
Epektibo yung jurisdiction namin
44:24.4
Kasi humihingi sila sa amin
44:27.4
Kasi nagko commit sila
44:28.4
Na hindi sila magko contract
44:29.4
What does that mean
44:30.4
Recognition on our part
44:33.4
They have a right
44:34.4
Over that property
44:35.4
Paano pinapamigay natin
44:36.4
Ganon po ang kalalabasan yan
44:37.4
30 years from now
44:40.4
This generation of filipinos
44:45.4
Of what they are doing now
44:47.4
Because whatever we do now
44:49.4
Will have implications
44:53.4
Control over that area
44:55.4
Bibigyan ko po kayo na isang example
44:58.4
Kanina po sinasabi nila
45:01.4
1990 daw nag-commit
45:02.4
You see how China is doing it
45:03.4
So sinabi niya na nag-commit ha
45:07.4
Pag nagkaroon tayo ng gano'ng agreement
45:09.4
At pumayag tayo na humihingi ng permiso
45:11.4
Eh di 30 years from now
45:13.4
Or 20 years from now
45:14.4
Sasabihin niya sa mga batang Pilipino
45:18.4
Eh namumuli sa bahay
45:20.4
Oh yung inyong 30 years ago
45:23.4
Yung inyong gobyerno
45:25.4
Yung inyong mga leader
45:26.4
Eto yung commitment nila
45:29.4
Hindi maglalagay ng
45:30.4
Ng mga construction materials
45:39.4
Pagkain lang ang dadal
45:40.4
Yan yung commitment to
45:42.4
You know what they
45:44.4
That means we are recognizing their
45:48.4
Their authority over that area
45:50.4
So eto yung sinabi naman
45:51.4
And it can be used against us
45:53.4
And that's why you have to be careful with this
45:56.4
Eto yung mga implications
45:57.4
That's why whatever
45:59.4
Agreement or actions we are going to take in that area
46:02.4
We must always think
46:04.4
Of the future consequences
46:06.4
Because at the end of the day
46:08.4
Eto yung sinasabi ko
46:10.4
For us to be able to understand
46:11.4
Yung South China Sea
46:13.4
We have to expand the timeline
46:16.4
In understanding the pattern of behavior
46:20.4
So for those people who are saying
46:22.4
Nawalang negosyasyon
46:26.4
See what happened
46:27.4
We actually negotiated
46:31.4
We tried to settle
46:32.4
But what has happened is
46:34.4
They keep on changing the status quo
46:36.4
Kaya ang status ko na yan
46:37.4
You have to be very careful about
46:39.4
The use of the word
46:40.4
Because anong status ko
46:41.4
Ang pinag-uusapan natin
46:43.4
Because if we admit
46:44.4
That the status ko now
46:46.4
That we at this time
46:48.4
And this is the status ko
46:50.4
Na okay nandiyan ng Coast Guard
46:53.4
That is not the status ko
46:55.4
That we should agree on
46:57.4
O yung status ko na hindi kami magdadala ng
47:00.4
Nang construction
47:02.4
That is not the status ko
47:05.4
That is in our favor
47:07.4
And so we have to be very careful about that
47:10.4
Sa mischief rate naman
47:11.4
Dahil cannot be considered ambassador
47:13.4
As effective jurisdiction by China
47:16.4
Dahil nagtayo siya yung installations na
47:19.4
Yun yung value ng ating arbitration
47:22.4
And that's one of the reason
47:23.4
Why we filed arbitration
47:25.4
Because kung hindi tayo nagkaroon ng arbitration
47:28.4
Yung kanilang de facto possession
47:31.4
Or de facto occupation
47:34.4
Over a period of time
47:36.4
Can mature into a de jure
47:39.4
Possession or ownership
47:41.4
Using the modality of effective jurisdiction
47:46.4
And that was one of the reason
47:48.4
We filed arbitration
47:50.4
Because now dahil meron ng arbitration
47:52.4
May klarong decision yung tribunal
47:56.4
Na part siya ng continental shelf
48:00.4
And part siya ng exclusive continental shelf
48:03.4
To be more specific ng Pilipinas
48:06.4
So sa madaling salita po
48:08.4
Ang China dapat mag-isip ng
48:11.4
Umalis sa mischief rate
48:13.4
So ito po yung importance nung
48:16.4
Consistent na pagka-file natin ng diplomatic protest
48:20.4
Yung pagka-file ng protest po
48:22.4
Meron po yung value legally and politically
48:26.4
And part of an overall strategy
48:29.4
Ang value po niya legally
48:31.4
Of course you are showing and demonstrating
48:34.4
That we never acquiesced to your claim
48:37.4
Some people are trying to reduce
48:39.4
The entire discussion
48:41.4
Into something like this
48:43.4
If you stand up for your rights
48:49.4
You are for peace
48:50.4
Pagka pinayagan mo sila
48:52.4
Nagawin yung ginagawa nila
48:54.4
O yung parang mag-agree lang tayo
48:57.4
I think that's wrong
48:58.4
That narrative should be corrected
49:00.4
Because that's not how it is
49:04.4
And it is our obligation
49:07.4
Standing up for our right
49:09.4
Does not mean creating war
49:11.4
These are two different concepts
49:14.4
And it is obligatory
49:16.4
And it is just right
49:19.4
For any government
49:21.4
Na tumayo sa karapatan natin
49:23.4
Because if we don't do that
49:26.4
And does that mean we are for war?
49:30.4
This is what we call now
49:33.4
Ito yung fear that they are trying to instill on us
49:36.4
Obviously that's oversimplification
49:39.4
And it's not true
49:42.4
Sana po ang ating pagtayo sa ating karapatan
49:47.4
Sa South China Sea
49:50.4
Eh hindi lang po ito burden ng Pangulo ng Pilipinas
49:54.4
This is a shared burden by all Filipinos po
49:59.4
In fact, including the international community
50:02.4
Because the implications is not just for the Philippines
50:05.4
It's not just for regional peace
50:07.4
But on a global basis
50:09.4
And so we have to do our part
50:12.4
And part of doing our part
50:19.4
So that we know all the issues
50:23.4
And when the time comes that we have so much information
50:27.4
We will be able to do what is right
50:30.4
In terms of helping the government
50:33.4
Helping the president
50:36.4
Of protecting what is ours
50:39.4
At dyan po nagtatapos yung ating Facts First Convo ngayong araw
50:42.4
Maraming maraming salamat po sa pananood
50:44.4
At tulad po nang sinabi ni Ambassador Henry Bensurto
50:47.4
Eh sana mas pag-aralan pa po natin yung issue
50:50.4
Dapat mas maunawaan po natin yung mga issues na
50:53.4
Nakadikit po dyan sa West Philippine Sea
50:56.4
Dahil napakalinoon mo naman po talaga
50:58.4
Kung sino po'y nangi-encroach
50:59.4
At kung sino po'y may tunay na karapatan
51:02.4
Dyan po sa ating bakuran
51:03.4
Again ako po si Christian Esguerra
51:05.4
Maraming maraming salamat po