01:40.5
However, we were not expecting that win to come during the Duterte administration
01:46.2
because iba kasi yung atmosphere.
01:49.5
Duterte really had a stranglehold over the different democratic institutions
01:55.8
and he was weaponizing these institutions.
01:58.9
He was weaponizing these institutions against the critics and the members of the opposition.
02:06.3
Isang victim na dyan is Rappler mismo, si Senator Laila de Lima and the others.
02:13.7
And they used that to have a chilling effect din sa lipunan.
02:20.1
And which made this Supreme Court ruling very, very significant.
02:25.2
Of course, we're very grateful.
02:28.9
To the justices for seeing the light and standing up for what is right.
02:36.0
To zoom in on that matter, you've mentioned the cases of former Senator Laila de Lima
02:41.3
and we saw how the presidential term of Duterte was used to file the cases against her.
02:47.7
And after that time, after Duterte's term, we saw how the courts one by one
02:53.3
dropped the cases against de Lima and even the witnesses recanting against her.
02:58.7
On the point that you mentioned, did you think, sir, is it safe to say that talagang hindi nyo in-expect to
03:04.6
under a Duterte presidency?
03:08.6
We didn't expect that.
03:10.2
Kasi nakita namin kung gaano ang takot ng hudikatura at that time.
03:16.8
Even Senado, Kongreso, even media.
03:22.0
They were called into submission.
03:24.7
And yun na nga, yung mga very few na...
03:28.7
na titindeg, talagang kakasuhan.
03:32.7
So that's what happened.
03:35.3
Kaya nga, it's a refreshing change itong nangyari under this Marcos administration
03:41.7
which is ironic for some, given the historical context,
03:46.9
na nare-restore yung democratic space at yung democratic institutions natin
03:53.2
are slowly being rebuilt.
03:56.1
And in this case, the judiciary,
03:58.7
ay nagiging independent na ulit.
04:01.7
Kasi wala nang pressure from the executive, the president,
04:05.9
to influence the judiciary
04:08.7
so that they can be weaponized against its enemies.
04:13.4
So nawala na yun ngayon, so far.
04:15.8
And we're very happy that that is the case.
04:20.4
This ruling, sir, is very historical because in one session,
04:24.2
the Supreme Court contradicted Duterte's two orders,
04:30.4
Aside from siding with you,
04:33.3
the Supreme Court also struck down the IRR
04:37.4
that was published by the Duterte administration
04:40.3
in terms of the GCTA issue back in 2019.
04:44.4
So in general sense, sir,
04:45.9
what does it say about our justice system and rule of law
04:48.8
given the fact that the Supreme Court finally contradicted a Duterte order
04:54.3
and it just so happened that it's your case?
05:00.1
it's very significant.
05:01.2
Of course, I'm very grateful na sa akin nangyari ito.
05:04.6
But more than this particular case,
05:08.6
precedent setting siya
05:10.6
at magiging part na siya ng jurisprudence moving forward
05:13.9
na ilagay sa lugar yung pag-aabuso ng isang presidente.
05:21.0
Na protection na natin yung Bill of Rights,
05:23.9
yung ating konstitusyon.
05:27.7
hindi na pwede in the future may gagawa ulit yan
05:31.0
kasi meron ka ng jurisprudence.
05:33.9
Kaya this is very significant in that regard.
05:39.8
And to think that most of these justices
05:42.1
are actually appointees of Mr. Duterte.
05:46.2
So what it shows is
05:48.7
pagka hindi mo iimpluensyahan ang hudikatura,
05:53.6
they will decide on merits.
05:58.9
yung tama ang mananahig.
06:01.4
Dapat all the time.
06:03.2
Magkakaroon lang naman ng ano yan,
06:05.7
pagbabago ng ganyang pananaw
06:08.6
pagka may mga external influences.
06:12.8
Kunyari may third party na magbabride.
06:17.8
yung external pressure coming from people in power.
06:29.4
Punta tayo doon sa naging decision ng Supreme Court
06:32.4
yung mahimayin natin yung mga wording
06:33.9
because it's also an interesting decision
06:36.1
and ruling because
06:38.3
the words are strongly worded.
06:40.4
The remarks of Associate Justice Maria Filomena Singh
06:44.6
are strongly worded.
06:45.9
In fact, she mentioned that
06:47.5
the revocation of your amnesty without prior notice
06:51.0
violated your constitutional right to due process.
06:54.2
And sinabi niya rin na yung proclamation,
06:58.6
ay nag-violate nung right mo against
07:00.6
exposed facto loss and double jeopardy.
07:03.5
Anong naging reaction niyo dito, sir,
07:05.1
nung nabasa niyo po ito
07:06.2
coming from the SC decision?
07:09.8
We're very happy na
07:11.9
ganun din yung wordings niya,
07:14.0
walang ambiguity.
07:15.4
But sinasabi ko nga,
07:17.2
when these things were being discussed by my lawyers
07:22.0
nung back in 2018,
07:23.7
talagang nakikita nila yung
07:26.1
mga brazen violations of the Constitution
07:29.1
nung ginawa nila Duterte ito mong sa akin.
07:32.1
And they're very confident na
07:36.1
fair environment,
07:39.1
lalabas yung totoo.
07:43.1
kahit na law student daw makikita yung
07:46.1
kamalian dito sa ginawa nila.
07:49.1
And I'm glad na talagang pinanindigan ng
07:52.1
ng Korte Suprema ito.
07:58.1
yung pagbawi ng amnesty din,
08:01.1
significant yan kasi
08:04.1
we are using the amnesty as a tool
08:08.1
Para makapag-ano tayo,
08:10.1
negosye tayo na maayos doon sa iba't ibang
08:14.1
grupo na umakla sa Estado.
08:19.1
na-violate yung sangpiti ng amnesty,
08:22.1
eh mahirap ka na rin
08:25.1
Nung makaka-negotiate mo,
08:28.1
Kasi sasabihin pa,
08:29.1
hindi pa lang nababawi yan, ano?
08:32.1
these are very significant
08:36.1
things that were considered.
08:39.1
And for that matter,
08:40.1
yun ang naging effect
08:43.1
desisyon nitong Korte Suprema.
08:45.1
Important time for
08:46.1
the Marcos administration as well
08:48.1
because there's an ongoing peace talks.
08:50.1
There's ongoing peace talks with,
08:53.1
the other forces in
08:55.1
the Marcos government tries to
08:59.1
Now sir, just last thing on the
09:02.1
Meron ding sobrang importante at
09:04.1
striking talaga na wording yung ruling.
09:08.1
the decision reaffirms that neither the government
09:11.1
nor any of its officials,
09:12.1
including the President,
09:14.1
are above the law.
09:15.1
Any reaction on this, sir?
09:17.1
Natuwa ako dun nung
09:19.1
nabasa ko yung part na yun.
09:23.1
hindi naman siya necessary
09:26.1
or essential element dun sa desisyon.
09:29.1
But kailangan nilang sabihin yun.
09:31.1
Kasi alam nilang this is a clear
09:35.1
demonstration of abuse of power
09:38.1
by the executive branch,
09:39.1
particularly the President.
09:41.1
At itong kanyang mga legal advisors,
09:45.1
yun ang sinasabi nila na
09:47.1
hindi nyo pwedeng isagasa lang dito
09:49.1
tapos you expect na
09:52.1
on the mere intimidation effect ay,
09:57.1
you can have your way.
09:59.1
Kailangan nyo pa rin
10:02.1
kasi yun yung sinampaan nyo.
10:05.1
yun niya, sinasabi natin
10:07.1
dito sa desisyon na ito,
10:09.1
yung Presidente na abusado.
10:13.1
para hindi na pamarisan ito
10:17.1
Talking about the amnesty
10:19.1
of former Senator Antonio Trillanes,
10:21.1
that was granted by
10:22.1
late former President
10:24.1
And when Duterte came into power,
10:27.1
he actually revoked it
10:28.1
through his proclamation.
10:30.1
But the DND and others,
10:32.1
offices of the government said that
10:34.1
Senator Trillanes, in fact,
10:36.1
filed his application for amnesty.
10:38.1
Sir, let's just relieve
10:42.1
the struggles that you've been through
10:44.1
at the height of this revocation.
10:48.1
you were a sitting senator
10:49.1
and this revocation,
10:50.1
and this revocation happened
10:51.1
at the height of your critics
10:53.1
against the Duterte government.
10:56.1
After former Senator de Lima was jailed,
10:58.1
he went after you.
11:00.1
And through the amnesty
11:01.1
that was granted to you
11:02.1
by former President Nonoy Aquino.
11:05.1
Sir, pwede mo bang parikol sa amin
11:07.1
how hard it was to experience all of this?
11:11.1
Nung araw na nilabas yan,
11:14.1
I was meeting with the members
11:16.1
of the opposition
11:17.1
at the office of the Vice President.
11:19.1
Doon si Vice President Lenny Robredo.
11:21.1
And it was, in fact,
11:23.1
the chief of staff of VP Lenny
11:25.1
who gave the copy of the revocation
11:29.1
of the amnesty sa isang major news publication.
11:34.1
So sinabing ganon,
11:37.1
yun nga, i-revoke.
11:38.1
Tapos may order yun eh.
11:40.1
He ordered the AFP and PNP
11:42.1
to have me arrested.
11:44.1
Talagang ganon ka-specific.
11:46.1
Ang problema ko noon kasi,
11:48.1
andun doon na kami sa Quezon City,
11:50.1
and I had a hearing
11:52.1
para doon sa four-piece law
11:54.1
that Senator Laila Dilipa requested
11:57.1
na ina-sponsor ko.
12:00.1
Kaya nag-conduct pa kami ng hearing noon
12:02.1
for the four-piece law.
12:04.1
Sabi ko, after na lang noon,
12:06.1
kung arestuhin nila ako,
12:07.1
ayun na lang after.
12:09.1
So we were there sa hearing.
12:13.1
Tapos the PNP officers attempted
12:17.1
to enter the Senate premises.
12:21.1
Tapos sinasabihan ako ni Senator Riza
12:25.1
who was with me doon sa hearing
12:27.1
na nadya dyan na yung taga-PNP.
12:30.1
And then sinabi niya na hindi pinapasok
12:34.1
ni then Senate President Tito Soto.
12:36.1
So doon mo makikita na yung Senate
12:39.1
at that time, regardless of the perception
12:42.1
na parang co-opted siya by Duterte,
12:46.1
alam nila yung institutional limits.
12:50.1
So hindi nila pinapasok.
12:54.1
And that saved me.
12:55.1
And that was the sole decision
12:57.1
of Senator Tito Soto.
12:59.1
Then after that, sinabi nila,
13:02.1
sinabi ni Senator Frank de Rilon sa akin,
13:05.1
you cannot voluntarily turn yourself in.
13:08.1
Otherwise, hindi mo na maki-question
13:10.1
yung warrantless arrest.
13:13.1
So ganun daw yun.
13:15.1
E di nagkaroon na ngayon ng siege.
13:18.1
Ang isang nakakatuwa nung pangapanahon na yun,
13:23.1
regardless of the public perception
13:26.1
na karamihan nun kaalyado ni Duterte,
13:29.1
pero we were unanimous in supporting my case
13:34.1
na hindi pwede kong arestohin without iwaran.
13:38.1
Kaya yun ang naging decision to protect me
13:45.1
Tapos, isa ring magandang nangyari dito,
13:48.1
the AFP, regardless of the order,
13:51.1
the explicit order of Mr. Duterte
13:53.1
to have me arrested at ilagay sa court martial,
13:57.1
hindi ginawa ito ng AFP leadership
14:00.1
kasi yung mga mid-ranking officers
14:03.1
and some senior officers,
14:05.1
nagsasabi na hindi pwedeng walang ganyan.
14:10.1
Kung magawalang ganyanan,
14:12.1
huwag itadrag yung AFP as an institution
14:16.1
dito sa political battles ng kanilang commander-in-chief.
14:21.1
So hindi siya sinunod.
14:23.1
Yun yung ano doon.
14:26.1
nung pinalabas sila ng Senate Sergeant at Arms
14:31.1
sa Senate premises,
14:33.1
they were just there outside.
14:37.1
some key institutions held,
14:40.1
dahil alam nila na mali na yung utos,
14:44.1
ay dahil alam nila na mali yung utos ng kanilang commander-in-chief.
14:47.1
Speaking of institutional value,
14:49.1
your case is actually a test case
14:51.1
for other military and soldiers as well
14:54.1
because kung titignan natin mabuti yung naging reasoning
14:57.1
ng Duterte administration,
14:59.1
they said that you did not file your amnesty application
15:03.1
but when other institutions look into the problem,
15:06.1
hindi din makita yung ibang amnesty applications of the rest.
15:09.1
So parang naging cherry-picking siya
15:11.1
na ikaw lang talaga yung in-attack
15:13.1
and it could also affect the other institutions
15:16.1
like the military as well.
15:20.1
And now that you mentioned it,
15:23.1
makita rin natin na regardless kahit na
15:26.1
gigil na gigil na yung commander-in-chief nila sa akin
15:29.1
at nailabas na nila yung intention na gusto kong ipakulo,
15:33.1
pero nung pinatawag isa-isa yung mga key AFP officers,
15:38.1
na involved dun sa processing ng amnesty ko,
15:44.1
sinabi pa rin nila yung totoo.
15:46.1
Sinabi nila na nag-apply ako at beyond the basis of that application,
15:51.1
nag-grant sila ng amnesty.
15:53.1
Kumaga hindi sila na nadala dun sa maling order ni Duterte.
16:00.1
And doon kung maalala ninyo,
16:02.1
when Duterte came back from his foreign trip,
16:06.1
yun nagmamaktol siya, bakit?
16:08.1
Hindi siya sinunod ng AFP,
16:10.1
dinombe daw niya yung sweldo,
16:12.1
at kung ano-ano ang panunubat na binigay niya.
16:15.1
Pero doon mo makita na kahit pa paano yung professionalism of the AFP
16:20.1
held at that critical moment na it was being tested.
16:26.1
So it's a very significant thing.
16:29.1
The public now, especially your supporters,
16:32.1
are waiting if you're gonna file or seek damages
16:36.1
for what you've gone through.
16:37.1
In 2019, or maybe file a criminal complaint against Duterte.
16:41.1
What are your future plans, former senator,
16:44.1
on this matter, specifically that you secured a major win at the Supreme Court?
16:49.1
Do you plan to go after Duterte?
16:51.1
Yan po ng mga abogado namin kung ano yung mga pwede namin gawin.
16:55.1
At kung meron mang gagawin about this,
16:59.1
hindi ito born out of vindictiveness o pangbebenga
17:03.1
kasi that's not our style.
17:05.1
Kung maggagawa man kami, magpapile man kami ng kung ano-anong case,
17:09.1
is para magtanda yung mga gumawa nito para may accountability
17:14.1
na hindi kayo pwedeng gagawa ng mga ganitong bagay
17:19.1
na abusuhin yung inyong kapangyarihan to oppress people.
17:22.1
So gagawitin natin ito para magmarka sa isip ng mga potential
17:30.1
ng mga abusado na gobyerno.
17:32.1
You cannot do that.
17:33.1
You will be made to do that.
17:35.1
You will be made to pay at some point.
17:39.1
Looking at the bigger picture now,
17:41.1
do you think this is a temporary victory for you?
17:44.1
Because if we're gonna look at the presidential surveys,
17:48.1
there's a possibility that another Duterte might be,
17:52.1
you know, might take the presidential post in 2028, a few years from now.
17:56.1
Do you think if that happens, things will be different again for you?
18:00.1
Especially that you're really one of the most critical,
18:04.1
most vocal critics of former President Duterte?
18:07.1
It's going to be a resumption of that six-year nightmare
18:13.1
of the Duterte administration.
18:16.1
At probably hindi lang sa akin, pati sa inyo, sa Rappler.
18:20.1
So it's going to be a nightmare for the people in the sectors
18:28.1
and the organizations who advocate for strong democracies.
18:33.1
Kasi ang Dutertes talagang anti-democracy sila.
18:38.1
Gusto nila yung hare. Gusto nila yung hare or rey na sila.
18:43.1
Kaya pagka nalalagay sila sa lugar or hindi nila nakukuha yung gusto nila,
18:50.1
nawawala sila sa wisyo.
18:52.1
Kaya sana naman hindi mangyari yung nightmare na yan,
18:57.1
yung pangungok na yan.
18:59.1
Kaya we have time.
19:00.1
2024 pa lang ngayon.
19:02.1
2028 pa yung susunod.
19:04.1
Na talagang palakasin yung mga kandidatong kailangan natin ilagay sa malakas niya sa 2028.
19:32.1
Pagkakataon natin ng katotohanan at labanan ang fake news at katotohanan.
