01:15.0
And prosecutors and defense lawyers lay out their case in the historic criminal trial of former U.S. President Donald Trump.
01:25.9
On Hot Copy this morning.
01:28.1
Cagayan officials defend the alleged influx of Chinese students in the province amid national security concerns.
01:37.1
Michael DeLizo reports.
01:40.7
Officials of Cagayan province and Tugigaraw city shielded Chinese students in the province from security threat allegations and questions about their identity.
01:49.3
They see nothing wrong with the choice of Chinese nationals to study at St. Paul University in Tugigaraw, which is about two-hour travel from declared EDCA sites.
01:58.1
No, we are not racist.
02:00.1
We hate xenophobia here.
02:02.7
And we are not here.
02:04.5
We are not coming to anyone.
02:07.0
We are used to the Chinese here.
02:11.4
Because since the 14th century, we are already with us.
02:15.2
Based on records, there are at least 486 foreigners studying at St. Paul, the lone academic institution that is catering to foreign students at the moment.
02:23.8
That's contrary to earlier reports that there are about 4,600 Chinese students.
02:28.1
Students in a single university in the province.
02:30.8
The number of 486 students also includes other nationalities and not just Chinese.
02:36.2
According to the Commission on Higher Education or CHED, St. Paul has been granted authority by the Bureau of Immigration to accept foreign students.
02:44.2
Cagayan Governor Manuel Mamba says there are no police complaints against Chinese nationals in the province.
02:50.1
It means have more useful relationship with all foreigners here.
02:55.4
In a joint statement earlier, the universities and colleges,
02:58.1
in Cagayan, also denied allegations that students are buying off diplomas.
03:03.0
Mayor Tinque says she has never sponsored the study of foreigners.
03:06.9
So unfair. So unfair doing that.
03:11.3
The institutions who have spent decades and keeps building their reputations.
03:18.3
Several groups also condemned the allegations against Chinese nationals.
03:22.6
Civic leader and Chinese-Filipino figure Teresita Angsi cried foul over suggestions that Chinese politicians,
03:28.1
students may be involved in espionage,
03:30.5
adding that xenophobia and racism are both dangerous and unfortunate.
03:34.4
I think we will try to study with our councils,
03:39.6
suing these people who have hundreds of millions of intelligence funds.
03:45.0
May staff na napakalaki para mag-research.
03:48.6
Para maglabas lang ng kasinungalingan.
03:51.1
Mga walang hiya sila.
03:52.2
Some lawmakers, however, want the investigation to push through,
03:55.6
saying the increasing number of Chinese students in Cagayan,
03:58.1
can already be considered a national security concern,
04:01.7
given the maritime morale between Manila and Beijing.
04:04.6
We've been trying to project to Gegarao as a center of learning and education.
04:09.5
So let's have an investigation whether this is really true or not.
04:16.0
Because come to think of it, is this a mere coincidence?
04:21.9
I'm not saying the Chinese is the enemy here.
04:24.8
There are Chinese tourists that we welcome.
04:28.1
There are Chinese businessmen that we welcome as well.
04:33.1
But those Chinese who come here with questionable motives,
04:38.2
then siguro dapat tingnan natin mabuti yan.
04:41.1
The local government says they are ready to face the investigation.
04:45.2
Michael Delizo, ABS-CBN News.
04:50.0
And joining us on Hot Copy this morning,
04:52.9
we have with us Tugigarao Mayor Myla Tingke.
04:55.8
Mayor Tingke, good morning to you.
04:58.1
Good morning, Ms. Karen. Good morning to our viewers.
05:02.1
All right. Let's get the facts straight first.
05:04.9
How many Chinese students are now in Tugigarao or in Cagayan as a whole?
05:11.4
There's St. Paul's University.
05:13.5
Is there another university where there are Chinese nationals enrolled?
05:20.0
As far as we know, Ms. Karen, wala po.
05:22.6
It's only at St. Paul University that we have the Chinese students now.
05:28.1
They're at around 486 as confirmed by the school itself,
05:32.9
as confirmed by CHED, and as confirmed by the Immigration Bureau.
05:37.7
Okay. So the number that you have is 486 Chinese students.
05:44.4
486. Parang napakalayo po nun dun sa lumalabas sa balita
05:49.1
na there are 4,500 Chinese students enrolled.
05:54.6
And another source told me over 11,000.
05:58.1
I think that is where all this brouhaha started.
06:03.3
It was the numbers that were given out in support probably of the resolution
06:09.6
that was filed for an investigation.
06:13.0
So that's where we also wanted to clarify the issues.
06:16.7
Kasi it has been so unfair to us.
06:19.5
When you say influx, Ms. Karen, what exactly does that mean?
06:23.5
What numbers are we talking about when you say it's an influx already?
06:28.1
It's an influx of foreigners coming into the city.
06:30.4
So that was where we wanted to be clarified.
06:33.5
Now we have the exact number of 486.
06:36.2
And this is supported by the CHED, BI, and the schools themselves.
06:42.0
So yun po yung totoong numbers.
06:43.8
We don't know where it came from.
06:45.8
I talked to someone who allegedly talked to the congressman.
06:51.2
And parang ang sinasabi was,
06:53.5
if you're asking us for the totality of all foreigners
06:57.5
coming into the school since 2001 to 2002,
07:02.4
then probably these are the numbers that we can say that came to Tuguegarao.
07:07.1
But it's not purely Chinese.
07:09.3
They have Indians, Timor-Leste.
07:12.7
They have, I think, Papua New Guinea, Malaysians, Japanese, South Koreans,
07:18.2
Indonesians, and Taiwanese students.
07:19.8
So it's not purely just Chinese who came in.
07:23.2
I think there was a misunderstanding.
07:26.8
But unfortunately,
07:27.5
it was used to parang clickbait, actually,
07:32.0
na parang sinabing 4,006.
07:34.4
And everyone was like saying 4,600 students in one school alone at this given moment.
07:40.6
It really would sound suspicious.
07:43.5
No, and that would be, I mean, alarming to some degree
07:47.1
with 4,600 students, foreign students at one time.
07:51.9
But I'm curious, all right, give us an overview.
07:55.1
Is St. Paul's the only province?
07:57.5
Is St. Paul's the only private university in Cagayan where there are foreign students?
08:03.8
As of the moment, a few years back before the pandemic, Ms. Karen,
08:08.7
we had students at Cagayan State University studying medicine.
08:14.2
As of now, what we know is that only St. Paul's has been given that right by the Bureau of Immigration
08:20.7
to admit aliens, alien permit nga ang sinasabi nilang tawag nila doon.
08:25.7
So this has been since...
08:27.5
2001 or 2002, I'm not really sure of the exact date.
08:31.5
But when I talked to them, that was what they said.
08:34.9
A few years back, when you would walk around Tuguegarao,
08:38.2
you would see foreigners going around the city walking.
08:43.0
Because we're such a small city, the university area,
08:47.5
napaka-namong private schools dyan,
08:49.8
that you can just walk the university belt, no?
08:53.9
So yun po yung sinasabi namin.
08:56.3
As of the moment, it's...
08:57.5
It's only the University of St. Paul who has the foreigners right now.
09:03.3
USL, University of St. Louis, is, I believe, applying already
09:08.1
to have foreigners' internationalization program na nila yan.
09:13.9
UTV, which is the University of Cagayan Valley,
09:16.6
is also starting their internationalization programs.
09:21.3
And so is MCNP-ISAP, judging by the school director's pronouncements,
09:27.5
and we have another college here, Vargas.
09:30.6
I'm not too sure whether they're starting that kind of program.
09:34.6
But it's only University of St. Paul right now that has the foreigners.
09:40.1
And how many students does the University of St. Paul have?
09:44.6
The total population.
09:46.4
And what is the age bracket of the 400...
09:55.0
What is the age bracket of the 400?
09:57.5
486 Chinese students.
10:00.1
The details for this, I am not too sure, Ms. Karen,
10:03.5
but from what I heard yesterday from the interviews, BI,
10:08.4
they were saying the visas that were issued was 18 years old and above.
10:12.5
I talked to St. Paul's people just this morning,
10:17.0
and I asked them outright.
10:18.2
There were people studying at around 50, 40-plus years of age
10:23.4
because these are students studying here,
10:27.5
taking up their doctoral or Ph.D. and master's,
10:31.5
who are also administrators of their schools back in China,
10:36.2
learning education and business courses here in Pag-Egaraw.
10:41.0
So the age group is really beyond the 20s
10:44.5
because these are already grad school and Ph.D.
10:47.8
Expected po na mas mataas yung age nila
10:50.9
than the 18-year-old and 20-plus-year-old students.
10:58.2
Mayor, a question that was raised by, I believe it was Representative Robert Borbers yesterday
11:04.8
or Senator Tolentino, either of them,
11:07.8
is without taking anything away from St. Paul's,
11:12.3
is why would Chinese nationals have an interest specifically in St. Paul's in Tugigarao
11:20.5
when they could enroll in Ateneo or in, for example, in De La Salle, right?
11:28.5
That's what I, frankly speaking, that's what I've been talking about.
11:33.0
When people ask why Tugigarao, I would ask them back,
11:36.1
why not Tugigarao?
11:37.7
We have all the facilities here.
11:39.2
We have all the big schools.
11:40.3
We have all the big hospitals.
11:41.6
We are actually known as the Center for Educational Excellence, St. Paul.
11:48.8
Let us be very honest about this, Ms. Karen, no?
11:52.2
St. Paul University has been accredited or not acknowledged by CHED.
11:57.5
If you go to Manila, let us be honest,
11:59.9
when you go to Ateneo, when you go to De La Salle, when you go to UP,
12:04.1
isn't the acceptance rate harder?
12:06.9
The cost of living in Tugigarao is much, much lower than that of Metro Manila.
12:13.0
If you're a foreigner, would you somehow want to risk also
12:17.1
going to a place that's so huge
12:21.1
that you don't even know the terrain where Manila or Quezon City stands?
12:27.5
Where Valenzuela or the other, Caloocan, the other cities start within the Metro Manila area.
12:35.8
But when in Tugigarao, as I've said, we're a smaller community.
12:42.3
And don't put us as St. Paul mismo, ma'am.
12:45.3
We have top-notch shirts, not only St. Paul, St. Louis, St. Paul, all the other schools.
12:50.9
We've been doing so well, passing rate of any examination,
12:57.5
Board or anything.
12:58.9
Ang taas po ng passing rate, no?
13:00.5
And two centers for excellence.
13:02.9
I'll just finish this.
13:06.3
SPUP has two centers of excellence, nursing and teacher education.
13:11.2
And the Chinese have been here.
13:12.8
The foreigners have been here since 2002.
13:16.2
They've had, I think, more than 200 graduates of nursing and med school already
13:24.3
coming from China.
13:26.0
At least, that's what they told us.
13:27.5
So, just very quickly, St. Paul's University is privately owned, correct?
13:34.7
It is run by sisters.
13:37.3
Okay, but it's privately owned?
13:41.1
So, I'll start with this.
13:42.5
Of the 486 Chinese nationals who are in St. Paul's, how many belong to other ASEAN nations?
13:51.5
Or how many other foreign students do they have?
13:55.2
I do not have the...
13:56.5
I think that's very important.
13:57.0
I do not have the...
13:57.0
I think that's very important.
13:57.1
I think that's very important.
13:57.2
I think that's very important.
13:57.2
I think that's very important.
13:57.2
I think that's very important.
13:57.3
I think that's very important.
13:57.5
I think this is where the balance is important.
14:01.9
Because are we talking about there are 486 Chinese students, and then there are two Koreans,
14:08.6
two Indians, three...
14:10.9
That's where the alarm bells start ringing, because the school in itself should be putting
14:18.2
up a diversity number at some point.
14:23.1
Because they do not go over the world.
14:25.8
The data is with SPU.
14:27.3
The data is with SPU.
14:27.4
As far as I know, there are more Chinese than other nationalities.
14:33.3
But for some time...
14:36.6
Please forgive me.
14:38.7
St. Paul's University of the Philippines.
14:41.6
So it's with St. Paul's.
14:45.0
The reason I'm asking this, given that you are mayor, and you have lawmakers in Manila
14:49.9
that want to call for a hearing, at some point, this is important for you to know.
14:55.9
Because then there are accusations of...
14:58.9
Supposedly, I'm just...
15:00.6
I'm giving you reports.
15:02.3
Supposedly, sleeper cells, other issues with EDCA sites.
15:06.8
So as mayor, all I'm asking is, wouldn't it help if you knew exactly the landscape in
15:16.9
There are also reports that allegedly, some students, they're alleged 2 million pesos
15:32.7
I asked one of them just this morning before...
15:49.7
Why would it be a round?
15:51.4
That's an exact figure.
15:54.0
It should be an exact figure.
15:55.8
Because I haven't talked to them exactly about the exact figure.
16:01.1
But what they told was 486 foreigners.
16:04.6
So I called them up this morning and I asked them the very same thing you're asking me
16:09.8
So what he's saying is, what he knows is 486.
16:13.5
I have yet to go to the schools to actually find out.
16:17.4
I asked them to provide me all the datas and the documents I needed to be able to review
16:22.4
these things, Ms. Karen and all.
16:25.8
I also put it into its proper context.
16:29.1
For quite some time, during the past few years, there would always be a certain number
16:36.3
of students or foreigners coming from a single country.
16:41.3
Like, for example, CSU had Indians walking around.
16:46.5
There were so many Indians.
16:47.9
Mas madami pong Indians.
16:49.6
May time po na panay Koreans.
16:51.5
May time po na panay Taiwanese.
16:53.6
Isn't this difficult for you?
16:55.8
Is it difficult for you to be defending this when you haven't been to the school yourself?
17:02.8
You're the mayor.
17:04.8
You're telling me right now, you haven't been to the school.
17:07.8
You haven't seen the records.
17:09.3
You haven't seen the profiling.
17:11.3
I'm just stating, are you receiving just enough information so that when you face lawmakers,
17:19.2
you have the full picture, but you haven't been to the school?
17:23.3
I've been talking to them daily, ma'am.
17:25.8
I've been on and off going to Tugay-Garaob.
17:28.7
This issue came out last week while I was in Cebu attending the League of Cities.
17:34.2
And then I came home just today.
17:37.3
And I intend to talk to all of them.
17:39.4
We've been asking for the documents and the records.
17:42.2
And for some time last year, they were telling us, there's data privacy,
17:46.3
but we cannot give you the names, but we can give you the numbers.
17:49.2
That's why I came home to talk to them already.
17:52.8
But why do I defend them, ma'am?
17:54.9
Because number one, I'm not going to defend them.
17:55.8
Number one, they're here in Tugay-Garaob.
17:57.6
We know their credibility.
17:59.2
We know their reputation.
18:01.3
And I'm sure it's a good school.
18:03.2
Let me put that on the record.
18:04.9
I have no doubt that it's a good school.
18:07.9
Yes, ma'am, it is.
18:09.0
And they've been open since 1907 in Tugay-Garaob.
18:13.4
And we've been in touch with all of them.
18:15.6
They're collating the data already.
18:17.7
What we know of is the numbers.
18:20.1
We cannot speak of actual profile, as you say.
18:25.7
As you asked me, Ms. Karen, because what can I be defending?
18:31.1
I will only be able to defend what LGUs are under the ambit of the LGUs, actually.
18:38.6
But the data, the profile itself, should be answered by the schools, by BID, and by CHED, not by the LGU.
18:47.4
LGU can only so far...
18:48.7
So my question now is, so are you saying there is no cause for national security?
18:55.7
Because the lawmakers are saying that this could be a national security concern.
19:02.9
Is that unfair for lawmakers to say that?
19:06.6
You know, another context.
19:09.4
Tugay-Garaob City is around two hours away from EDCA sites.
19:14.3
Everyone has been welcome.
19:16.1
And last year, Ms. Karen, and I've been telling people about this,
19:20.6
we've already had two meetings with the PNP, with PIDEA, BID,
19:25.7
NICA, the other agencies, BFA,
19:30.2
because we also wanted to be sure, no?
19:33.0
That nothing has happened yet.
19:35.1
We would know if there were any illegal things being done,
19:38.6
or if these really were students,
19:41.2
because we've been hearing some things as well.
19:43.8
So, it's been two times, September 25 and December 29,
19:47.7
that we had these meetings.
19:49.4
We asked for reports from the PNP.
19:51.2
We asked for reports from the Intel community.
19:53.5
We asked for reports from the NICA.
19:57.2
I asked the BI, are the documents all okay?
20:00.9
Are the documents all up front?
20:04.0
Yes, ang sagot sa amin, ma'am.
20:05.8
So, if there is no report, why should I worry?
20:09.3
If there are no reports of such things?
20:11.1
The West Philippine Sea problem arose just this year.
20:16.5
Last year pa po na nandito ang mga, I mean, the incident po, no?
20:21.8
The WPS has been there for quite some time already.
20:26.3
Pero yun pong incident na nagsabog ng tubig,
20:30.3
this year na naman po yan, ano?
20:31.9
So, this is an entirely new problem that we're going to have to deal with.
20:36.6
The EDCA, the foreigners were already here even before the EDCA site,
20:41.4
Kagayan, was identified as an EDCA site.
20:44.7
Let me also go back to the 2 million peso allegation, Ms. Karen.
20:49.9
We know who this person is.
20:52.7
That's why I was...
20:53.7
Who is this person?
20:55.7
Yes, I know that it was a certain Chester Cabalsa,
21:02.0
a UP professor who alleged that there was a 2 million peso parang payment for diplomas, no?
21:10.6
But ang tinatanong ko, Ms. Karen, is Professor Chester Cabalsa,
21:15.0
even affiliated with any of these universities,
21:18.8
just the same way that you asked me,
21:20.8
have I gone to the school?
21:22.4
Has Chester actually also gone to the school?
21:25.7
Can you ask and verify if there was a 2 million peso payment?
21:29.7
Well, actually, what's important for Chester to prove
21:33.4
is not to go to the school, but to actually show somebody who paid.
21:40.7
But has he? Has he shown somebody?
21:42.5
I don't know. I mean, I've never met him.
21:46.1
That is so unfair for the school and the city itself.
21:49.6
We have been promoting Tagaygarawas, the educational center of Region 2,
21:54.4
and here comes allegation.
21:55.7
That would tarnish that image and would somehow affect Tagaygaraw City itself,
22:01.5
not only this school, but the city itself.
22:04.5
Because we've been supporting left and right all the efforts
22:08.0
to actually invite over tourists, invite investors, invite students into Tagaygaraw City.
22:15.2
And we're not only just talking about foreigners, Ms. Karen.
22:18.1
We're also talking about other people from within the country itself,
22:22.7
in the region and other regions and other provinces.
22:25.7
All right. Okay. Now, as we end, I wanted to ask you,
22:31.0
do you believe this whole conversation and the allegations that have come out
22:37.2
are giving rise to xenophobia, or this is already about xenophobia in itself?
22:46.9
Clearly, the reason this whole conversation has come out
22:51.6
is the fact that there's a distrust.
22:57.6
Because of their behavior in the West Philippine scene.
23:00.8
It stems from that.
23:03.7
It does. It does.
23:05.9
But, Ms. Karen, I have a Chinese surname.
23:09.3
I'm of Chinese descent.
23:10.6
I've been bashed.
23:11.8
I've been bashed.
23:13.0
I'll try it without hearing any explanations.
23:15.8
I'll try it just because of the bloodline that I have.
23:18.7
I've experienced it.
23:20.6
What worries me, actually, is the way things are brought out on social media,
23:25.7
can further add to the tension already being felt at the West Philippine Sea.
23:31.9
And we have a lot of Filipino-Chinese communities all over the country
23:38.3
that are now experiencing the same.
23:42.3
Instead of de-escalating the problem, we're now...
23:46.0
We're sending it.
23:46.8
We're sending it by the pronouncements that are being made by the government officials,
23:55.1
And you have to remember...
23:55.7
We have millions of OFWs living abroad, 6%.
24:01.5
If we're to base on the last data given out, 6% whom live in Hong Kong and China,
24:11.5
I think in Taiwan, who may be affected by the way things are going on here in the country.
24:17.1
Would we want that to happen?
24:18.9
What we're asking for is just for people to keep calm if there's an investigation.
24:23.8
No one's stopping that investigation.
24:25.7
What we're saying, though, is for that investigation to really lead to proper changes
24:33.0
if there are any changes that are needed to be done by the Bureau of Immigration,
24:39.1
by CHED, by the schools, by the local government units.
24:42.3
But until now, Ms. Karen, I have to point this out.
24:46.4
I have to point this out.
24:47.8
The congressman who actually raised that resolution and this issue
24:52.5
has not even bothered with intra-governmental cooperation.
24:55.7
Or to see, not even bothered to write us, talk to us, ask us.
24:59.7
His own brother-in-law is vice mayor of Tuguegarao City.
25:03.1
He could have asked outright instead of just popping it out in social media.
25:08.4
You know, Ms. Karen, when we talk about national security,
25:12.8
wouldn't it have been more prudent that we talked about this in the security,
25:17.1
with the security agencies rather than putting it out there on media
25:22.7
and putting it out there?
25:25.1
So, nun po kasimple yun, Ms. Karen, eh, di ba?
25:27.3
We're talking about national security as he says, no?
25:30.9
But to make it political, to drag along LGUs and tell people that we're anti-EDCA
25:37.3
when, in fact, we have not uttered anything about EDCA
25:41.0
and we have not opposed anything of any sort
25:44.8
and we've even welcomed all the Western and European representatives to the city
25:55.1
really concentrating on the problems.
25:57.5
It has now become political.
25:59.5
Na-politicize siya.
26:01.2
And now, a lot of questions have arised
26:03.3
from such a simple, simple inquiry that would have been done
26:09.8
first with us, the local government units,
26:14.5
rather than putting out there at a time that tensions are really, really high.
26:21.3
Well, number one, I think what's most important is they got the numbers.
26:26.8
486 to 4,500 to 11,000.
26:30.4
I mean, that makes such...
26:32.3
That's a big difference.
26:36.2
An extreme exaggeration.
26:38.2
And those numbers make all the difference with the responses of lawmakers.
26:43.1
So, let's get that first.
26:44.9
Number two, it would help actually to know just, I mean,
26:49.2
the balance of foreign students in that particular school.
26:53.2
And you're forgetting that.
26:55.1
So, I think to end, my last one is,
27:00.0
the rise of xenophobia, you're seeing it happen, right?
27:05.1
I mean, clearly, yeah.
27:06.5
Which isn't good.
27:07.8
Which isn't good.
27:09.1
Because as Filipinos, we would not want to be the victims of any kind of xenophobia too.
27:17.3
And then, to a degree, you're saying there's a sentiment like that
27:22.2
with the Chinese nationals today.
27:25.1
So, my next question is, how are they?
27:27.0
How are the students?
27:28.5
Are they experiencing aggressive behavior or any kind of discrimination?
27:36.9
Are you receiving complaints from them?
27:44.7
But, you know, Tuguegaraueños, I'm proud to say, are nice, kind, and gentle people, no?
27:55.1
But, in social media, the bashing has been unbearable, I think.
28:03.9
But some of the students I heard, I asked, a teacher, are a little bit scared.
28:10.3
Mayor, don't take social media too seriously in the sense, because there are a lot of trolls too.
28:15.7
I know, but, you know, but that's the sentiment.
28:19.8
And a lot of people, again, have questions because even the people in Tagalog,
28:25.1
Gayaan, are beginning to question, is it really 4,600 students also?
28:30.7
The alarm was there.
28:33.6
The students, as of now, I think I heard from one teacher,
28:37.4
are a little bit alarmed.
28:40.8
A little bit alarmed.
28:43.1
And are they fearful?
28:45.1
A little bit fearful.
28:46.3
Are the Chinese students fearful for their safety?
28:51.9
Some of them are.
28:53.2
Some of them are.
28:53.5
According to the teacher, I suppose.
28:55.1
Or according to someone from St. Paul, they're a little bit alarmed at what's been happening.
29:03.6
You know, we have to remember this.
29:05.1
I don't know if I have the right to speak about this.
29:08.7
But, yes, I've visited China.
29:12.3
We have to remember, they're not a democratic country.
29:17.3
So, if issues arise, specifically coming from the government,
29:25.1
the way they feel, Ms. Karen, they're not democratic.
29:30.4
We have to remember that.
29:32.2
There, in China, if the government comes calling,
29:36.4
and if the police, the military, come questioning,
29:41.5
we all know that it's scary.
29:44.0
So, we have to remember that wherever they go,
29:47.8
any country in the world,
29:49.6
they would still bring that culture along with them.
29:53.0
So, it's safe to say, probably,
29:55.1
that they are alarmed.
29:58.0
Is it a culture of fear or submission?
30:02.7
Not fear, probably.
30:04.2
Submission or probably because
30:05.8
they're taught, diba?
30:07.5
They grew up in a country
30:09.3
wherein there is discipline
30:11.3
by the government.
30:14.1
Ayokong mamaya mag-rate tayo dito ng diplomatic.
30:17.4
Ano, Ms. Karen, no?
30:18.8
But when you look at it culturally,
30:20.4
hindi po ba ganun talaga lahat
30:23.2
when you come from a country that's
30:24.8
I'd like to term it disciplined
30:27.4
or nagpa-follow sila sa police,
30:33.5
or sa government nila.
30:35.0
And then you go to a foreign country
30:36.4
and that country,
30:38.5
yung government nila mismo,
30:39.9
or officials nila,
30:41.0
or uniformed personnel nila,
30:43.0
would start saying,
30:45.0
we're suspecting of being spies.
30:47.5
Don't you think that would have a big impact on them?
30:51.2
Especially that they're in a different country?
30:54.6
When we go to other countries,
30:56.8
like, let's say, kung pa tayo ng North Korea,
30:59.2
would we not also feel
31:00.8
a little, a little
31:04.8
In other words, if they labeled
31:06.6
all Filipinos as drug beards
31:09.1
or something, that's what you're saying.
31:11.9
I agree with you.
31:13.1
With that, I agree with you.
31:14.8
So I think to close,
31:16.6
what message would you want to give?
31:20.1
What message would you want to give
31:21.8
the President, Cabinet Secretaries,
31:24.6
lawmakers here in Manila
31:26.7
who have been actually,
31:29.4
who've been speaking about this issue?
31:33.1
What would you want to tell them?
31:35.3
Please come visit Tuguegarao City.
31:37.2
It's as simple as that.
31:38.7
Come visit, see for yourself
31:40.7
our culture, see for yourself
31:42.5
how Tuguegarao is,
31:44.4
see for yourself what the schools bring.
31:47.6
Kasi sometimes, Ms. Karen,
31:49.5
nakakasakit ng loob na sasabihin,
31:54.6
when you look deeper into that statement,
31:57.8
it's actually insulting Tuguegarao nyo
32:00.2
that we have nothing to offer
32:01.9
when we have so many things going on for us
32:05.2
in Tuguegarao, in Cagayan.
32:07.2
And I hope that kayo po mismo,
32:09.5
you can come here
32:10.4
and talk to all of us.
32:12.5
You don't need an inquiry to do that,
32:15.4
And I hope that local politics
32:17.5
would not dictate national and foreign
32:20.3
and international policy.
32:22.0
Because we need to look at the characters,
32:25.7
I'm outright going to say it.
32:27.5
The resolution, when you look at it,
32:29.5
it reeks of politics.
32:31.7
It states that two LGUs have been sponsoring
32:34.8
these students when there's no truth to that.
32:38.9
It says that these two LGUs are against EDCA.
32:44.9
I'm not against EDCA.
32:47.0
No truth to that.
32:48.2
Why would you need to state that in your resolution
32:51.7
when all you want to do is investigate
32:54.6
the higher educational institutions
32:58.4
like what you're saying?
33:00.4
And then when you look at it,
33:01.9
nakakaya po, diba?
33:03.0
Actually, nagkaroon na ng statement
33:05.6
sa mga joint statement
33:06.7
sa mga schools and universities dito,
33:10.1
When you look at it,
33:12.0
ang ipinagbasehan ninyong ng media,
33:15.8
I'm sorry to say this, no?
33:17.1
Media was also a part of that.
33:21.2
ano po ba yung unang sinabi?
33:22.7
There's a resolution because
33:24.1
there's a resolution.
33:24.5
There is suspicious activity.
33:26.9
Ano pong activity?
33:29.0
That's really funny.
33:30.7
Suspicious activity,
33:31.9
sinali mong nag-sponsor ng clickbait
33:34.3
upon clickbait upon clickbait, no?
33:37.1
The next was 4,600.
33:38.9
The next was 2 million pesos diploma meal.
33:41.8
Pag natapos po ng lahat ng ito,
33:45.4
pag natapos po lahat na ito
33:46.6
at sabihin pa lang,
33:47.9
there's no truth to all of these negative things,
33:51.5
the data will still be there.
33:53.9
And these schools would have suffered.
33:56.9
Would have suffered.
33:58.1
And the city would have suffered.
34:01.4
I implore people at the national level,
34:04.3
I implore social netizens,
34:07.4
I implore the media also
34:08.6
to please look, verify
34:10.8
about the data that has been
34:14.2
coming out from one person
34:17.1
who is locally known to be opponents
34:20.0
of those people he wants to bring to Congress.
34:25.8
Well, you make very good points.
34:27.6
I want to thank you so much
34:29.1
for joining me today.
34:30.6
That was quite extensive.
34:32.2
Thank you so much.
34:33.7
Tugigarao Mayor Mayla Tinque.
34:35.9
Thank you, ma'am.
34:37.1
Ms. Karen Davila,
34:38.1
we'll be celebrating our 300th year come August.
34:41.5
I hope to be able to invite you
34:43.5
to please come on over
34:44.6
and see Tugigarao City for yourself
34:47.3
so that you may help us promote Tugigarao City.
34:51.2
Maraming salamat po.
34:53.5
On that note, who knows?
34:56.6
Thank you so much.
34:58.6
We're going to take a quick break.
35:00.6
We'll be right back.
35:16.3
Welcome back to Head Start.
35:18.1
The lawyer of expelled lawmaker
35:19.9
Arnulfo Tevez Jr.
35:21.8
disputes a bribery claim
35:23.5
from the Justice Department.
35:26.0
The Department of Justice earlier appealed
35:28.2
to Timorese authorities
35:30.0
for the immediate deportation of Tevez
35:33.1
saying his son bribed a police officer
35:36.8
in exchange for his father's security.
35:40.4
But his camp says it was the officer
35:43.1
who demanded money.
35:45.1
To talk more about this,
35:46.7
we're joined by Tevez's lawyer,
35:48.8
Attorney Ferdinand Topasso.
35:50.4
Attorney Topasso, good morning to you, sir.
35:53.5
Yes, good morning, Ma'am Karen.
35:55.7
And it's always good to be on your show.
35:59.0
So let's clarify something.
36:00.8
So there's two sides to the story.
36:03.7
Are you saying that the Timorese authority
36:08.1
or police officer asked for a bribe
36:11.5
from Congressman Tevez
36:13.5
for him to stay in East Timor?
36:18.3
Well, it's actually,
36:19.9
there's only one side.
36:21.2
That's why we regret.
36:22.3
It's regrettable that no less
36:25.1
than the highest official
36:26.8
of our Justice Department
36:28.6
would perpetrate such a brazen attempt
36:32.9
in this information.
36:34.4
That was why I could not comment right away
36:36.8
when I was asked to comment
36:38.2
after the DOJ issued a press release
36:40.7
because the article in question
36:43.0
was written in Tetum,
36:45.6
which is one of the official languages
36:49.2
It was from the online,
36:52.3
in the newspaper hantutan.com
36:54.8
and it was dated April 18.
36:57.1
So I had to contact our East Timor lawyers
37:00.6
who spoke both Tetum and Portuguese,
37:03.3
the official languages,
37:04.3
and asked them to translate the article for me.
37:08.7
It took 12 hours for them to come back to me
37:12.4
and that the translation is here with me
37:14.6
and the headline reads,
37:16.3
it's very clear that
37:17.4
Ramos Horta condemns PCIC member
37:21.7
who asked for a bribe from the DPR.
37:22.1
It's very clear that Ramos Horta condemned PCIC member
37:22.1
who asked for money
37:23.0
from fugitive Tevez.
37:25.5
That's the literal translation.
37:30.5
yes, the bribe was not offered.
37:33.1
It was asked from one of the parts of Mr. Tevez
37:35.9
and the matter was reported
37:38.3
and it is now under investigation
37:40.1
according to official sources.
37:42.8
Okay, so just a clarification.
37:45.1
PC, what did it say?
37:48.4
PCIC, that's the...
37:49.7
PCIC, what does that mean?
37:51.2
It's the counterpart of the NBI
38:00.8
It literally means
38:01.9
Commission for Police Criminal Investigation.
38:07.0
That would be a literal translation from Portuguese.
38:12.8
So, Atty. Topacho, just very quickly,
38:15.6
have you spoken with your client?
38:17.5
How much, how much did the,
38:21.2
the police officer
38:21.9
or the investigating officer,
38:24.5
that's what I wanted to ask,
38:25.9
what PCIP exactly meant?
38:28.4
How much did they ask Tevez?
38:32.8
I've spoken to the son.
38:34.8
We have a line of communication
38:38.0
my line to my client is very restricted
38:40.9
because he's under detention
38:42.2
and he's not taking their restrictions seriously.
38:45.1
Well, he declines to make public any detail
38:49.9
because the matter is under investigation.
38:51.2
And, he was advised by his counsels
38:55.1
not to make any public disclosures
38:57.0
as long as the investigation is still ongoing.
38:60.0
Okay, so we don't,
39:01.2
so one thing we've made clear,
39:02.9
you've made clear,
39:03.9
is he didn't offer the bribe,
39:05.7
he was asked for money.
39:08.0
He was asked, yes.
39:09.7
Yes, no less than the leader condemned it.
39:12.1
It's in the papers.
39:13.2
Number three, you don't know the amount.
39:19.0
did he pay the officer?
39:22.0
No, he reported the matter.
39:25.5
there is an official statement
39:27.4
from no less than the head of state,
39:30.1
President Ramos-Forta,
39:32.1
which says that this is under investigation.
39:35.2
I'm quoting from the exact words of translation.
39:38.0
This is a very serious matter
39:39.4
and there was a disclaimer that,
39:42.9
this does not reflect on the dignity of the police
39:45.5
and is extremely dangerous.
39:48.3
So that is the statement of Mr. Ramos-Forta.
39:51.2
As reported in the papers.
39:53.2
Alright, so let's move on a bit from there
39:55.1
just to update us.
39:57.0
Where exactly is Representative Arnulfo Tevez right now?
40:00.9
Of course, we know he's in East Timor.
40:05.5
Is he a fugitive there?
40:09.7
What's the status?
40:12.2
Actually, we would also like to disabuse the minds
40:15.3
of the people that Mr. Tevez was in hiding
40:20.1
he was in plain sight
40:21.5
and he was arrested in a public place
40:24.4
in a driving range
40:28.4
the narrative of the government
40:30.6
that he was in hiding right now.
40:33.1
Representative Tevez was playing golf
40:39.8
he was not in hiding
40:40.7
and the reason for this is that
40:42.2
he has a pending request for political asylum
40:45.5
from the East Timorese government.
40:47.3
He entered the country legally.
40:50.1
Without any legal obstacles.
40:53.2
He followed the process
40:56.6
in asking for political asylum.
40:59.4
And while waiting,
41:00.5
since he has not broken any laws in East Timor,
41:03.3
he had no reason to be arrested in East Timor
41:06.9
under East Timor's law.
41:08.5
So he was in plain sight.
41:10.0
So he was not in hiding there.
41:12.9
And now where is he?
41:15.7
Because he was arrested.
41:16.4
He's in a detention facility
41:20.1
Under preventive detention
41:22.0
pending judicial proceedings
41:24.7
as to how his petition
41:27.9
should be disposed of
41:29.1
and whether or not he should be deported
41:31.3
or allowed to stay in East Timor.
41:34.4
So there is no extradition treaty
41:36.7
between the Philippines and East Timor?
41:42.2
under accepted international law,
41:44.7
even if there is no extradition treaty
41:47.1
between two countries,
41:48.2
one country may ask another,
41:50.1
another country for extradition.
41:52.7
since there is no treaty,
41:54.2
it does not partake of the nature
41:55.9
of a treaty obligation,
41:57.5
but it becomes discretionary
42:01.0
holding that the person
42:03.2
whether or not to accede to the request
42:06.5
of the requesting state,
42:08.1
in this case, the Philippines.
42:10.3
Now, as to your knowledge,
42:12.2
has the Philippines
42:13.3
already officially requested
42:17.8
The Philippine government
42:20.1
officially requested for extradition.
42:21.9
But as I've said,
42:23.3
in the absence of an extradition treaty,
42:25.5
the matter will be heard in court.
42:29.8
since there is a red notice
42:31.3
against the former Congressman Tevez,
42:35.3
then the East Timor government
42:37.2
being a member of Interpol
42:39.0
had to act on the red notice
42:42.5
and the use of their discretion
42:44.7
was to arrest Mr. Tevez
42:47.2
and put him under preventive detention.
42:49.7
that is the legal status now
42:51.3
of Representative Tevez
42:53.6
and East Timor man.
42:55.5
So, it hasn't gotten to the point
42:57.4
that President Marcos Jr.
43:00.0
has called President Horta.
43:03.5
He has not done that yet.
43:06.0
Well, I would not know, ma'am,
43:08.8
You know, this...
43:09.7
Don't you think that would carry
43:14.1
the country's leader
43:19.7
the East Timorese president
43:24.0
Well, definitely.
43:25.4
In general, of course,
43:27.1
one head of government
43:30.1
But it must be noted also
43:33.3
that under the constitution
43:35.8
the president is only
43:37.1
the head of state.
43:38.3
The head of government
43:39.1
is the prime minister,
43:42.4
and he is the one
43:44.0
who has discretion
43:45.1
as to whether or not
43:47.4
should be granted
43:50.6
And what are the grounds
43:52.0
for political asylum
43:55.2
Why would they grant
43:58.5
political asylum?
44:00.9
In general, of course,
44:02.9
under international law,
44:04.6
political asylum is granted
44:10.8
that he is being persecuted
44:15.3
where he belongs.
44:17.6
Mr. Tevez is trying to prove
44:19.1
that he is being persecuted
44:19.3
by the state where he belongs.
44:19.6
Mr. Tevez is trying to prove
44:19.6
that he is being persecuted
44:19.7
that because of the chain of events,
44:22.5
what is happening to him
44:24.0
is not prosecution for a crime,
44:28.1
under East Timor's laws,
44:29.7
there are also grounds,
44:31.9
if there is a danger
44:32.9
of life imprisonment
44:38.2
where the applicant comes from,
44:41.0
may also be granted
44:42.3
because, you know,
44:44.5
in my brief visit
44:48.1
there are very big
44:50.6
because of their experience
44:52.6
as an oppressed people
44:53.9
having been under
44:55.7
for so many years
44:56.9
and then thereafter
45:03.7
I understand, of course,
45:05.0
what political asylum means,
45:09.0
for political asylum
45:11.5
if they're in politics,
45:14.2
with the opposition.
45:15.5
That's number one.
45:16.8
Or they're citizens,
45:18.0
ordinary citizens,
45:19.2
or even journalists, right?
45:24.6
But I wanted to ask you
45:26.4
Atty. Tevez, for example,
45:28.4
when he was in Congress,
45:29.5
he was with a majority, right?
45:31.8
He was with a ruling coalition,
45:35.1
He wasn't Laila de Lima,
45:37.4
who was an oppositor
45:40.2
former President Duterte.
45:45.6
that he needs asylum
45:48.2
the ruling coalition?
45:49.2
But we have to understand
45:52.1
it was a coalition.
45:55.2
he did not support
45:57.3
during the last elections.
45:60.0
He supported Manny Pacquiao.
46:02.8
he was a very vocal critic
46:06.3
of President Marcos
46:07.5
in forcing colonels
46:09.3
to submit courtesy resignations.
46:11.4
That is a matter of record.
46:13.7
he was a very vocal critic
46:15.5
of the Maharlika Fund,
46:17.4
even when he was still
46:21.8
well, he is not really
46:23.4
a member of the ruling party.
46:25.4
He's a member of another party.
46:27.3
And he was one of those
46:29.5
very first to complain
46:33.6
that he had information
46:39.0
are going to be raided
46:40.9
and explosives planted.
46:43.6
really happened in his case.
46:48.9
why we are asking
46:50.5
for political asylum.
46:52.8
But then what happens now?
46:54.4
I mean, let's refresh
46:55.4
the minds of the viewers.
46:57.9
Former Congressman Tevez,
46:59.5
because he's already
47:00.4
been removed from Congress.
47:01.8
He's been expelled, right?
47:06.2
So former Congressman Tevez,
47:08.7
he's facing murder charges
47:10.3
in the connection
47:11.7
of Negros Oriental Governor
47:14.3
and eight other people.
47:17.2
he's facing murder charges
47:24.6
So how could somebody
47:27.0
who's facing murder charges,
47:29.6
what would the edge
47:30.7
of granting political asylum
47:34.1
who's facing murder charges,
47:36.7
who should be facing them
47:38.2
in his own country
47:39.9
where the justice system
47:41.8
is fully functioning?
47:48.6
the grounds, again,
47:49.5
why we are asking
47:51.0
for political asylum
47:52.1
because it is very obvious
47:53.4
from the timeline
47:54.6
that we submitted
47:55.4
to the authorities there
47:59.7
after Governor de Gamo
48:01.6
was assassinated,
48:04.7
immediately pointed
48:05.8
to Congressman Tevez.
48:08.2
During the investigation,
48:10.0
then all of the witnesses
48:11.8
against him recanted
48:13.3
when they were given
48:14.3
a chance to get lawyers
48:15.6
of their own choice.
48:17.8
preliminary investigation
48:20.0
not unlike the Lima
48:20.8
where the recantation
48:23.0
the witnesses were presented
48:24.8
Those are two different things.
48:27.5
ignored the recantations.
48:35.2
without due process
48:36.1
because we were able
48:41.3
by the Chief PNP,
48:43.2
that there were threats
48:47.9
he could not come
48:49.4
attend the hearings
48:51.5
for his expulsion
48:52.9
but that was also
48:56.1
So, there are so many
48:57.1
things, Ms. Karen,
48:59.1
that we have been
49:04.1
in the normal process.
49:09.4
of pinning him down
49:10.6
and notwithstanding
49:11.7
the constitutional
49:13.2
of the presumption
49:20.7
without due process.
49:23.2
So, all these things
49:24.4
point to the fact
49:28.0
So, before we go,
49:29.0
my last question,
49:29.8
I hope you can answer
49:32.4
there's a request
49:42.8
to the Philippines
49:44.1
and he's detained here.
49:54.3
And what is the timetable?
49:56.1
Is there a timetable
49:57.7
to make a decision?
50:02.2
if there is no decision
50:07.4
East Timor lawyers,
50:10.1
is not being detained
50:14.4
then he has to be
50:19.1
Released to East Timor
50:19.3
and not sent back
50:20.2
to the Philippines?
50:22.4
if he's extradited
50:28.0
But as I've been saying
50:29.3
always in the final act,
50:30.8
it is up to the government
50:33.8
following the process there.
50:40.4
to the government
50:42.8
and which I think
50:47.6
very well taken there
50:49.0
because you know,
50:49.9
I was very active
50:50.9
in the Free Timor Movement
50:56.3
became an independent country.
50:58.8
many of the people there
51:02.9
and they do not appreciate
51:04.2
the Philippine government
51:05.5
trying to dictate to them
51:08.8
Secretary of Justice.
51:09.3
What essentially you're saying
51:11.9
you're optimistic
51:12.7
is that what you're saying
51:13.8
that he'll be granted
51:14.6
political assignment
51:15.7
or he will be granted
51:25.6
in the Philippines.
51:26.2
that you're going to get this?
51:31.2
because we believe
51:32.3
that we have the evidence
51:36.6
politically persecuted
51:41.0
I want to thank you
51:41.6
for joining me today
51:42.7
Attorney Ferdinand Topacho.
51:46.2
Thank you very much
51:48.7
That's Get Start Today,
51:50.7
I'm Karen Davila.
51:51.6
Thank you for watching.
51:53.0
You can play back
51:54.5
on the ANC YouTube channel.
51:57.8
and stay with ANC.
