00:52.5
He really enjoyed formulating public policy.
00:56.5
And he did it with integrity.
00:59.1
He had a very disciplined mind.
01:00.9
He knew what he wanted.
01:03.8
And I think what bolstered everything that he had done was the integrity in his practice of law.
01:12.6
And what he called during that time, his romance with the law.
01:16.6
Talagang wala pa akong naminit na.
01:20.3
Kasing dedicated sa lawmaking, katulad ni Renes.
01:25.4
He studied very carefully.
01:29.1
He studied very carefully.
01:30.7
And every resolution or bill that came before his committee and before the plenary body.
01:42.7
International relations issue during that time was the military bases agreement, which we rejected.
01:53.3
And there are changes now, of course.
01:59.1
I think we made the right decision on that particular date.
02:03.1
Today, our national interest dictates that we broaden our relationship with our neighbors as well as the United States.
02:11.7
And we're doing it on our terms because we have now Philippine bases that are being used by Americans.
02:20.4
And now, there's a Balikatan exercise that involves many other countries who are joining in this particular exercise.
02:32.1
Rene was always at the forefront of nationalism.
02:35.7
He was one who had very strong principles and beliefs about working for the poorest of the poor,
02:42.5
and especially those who are disadvantaged in the realm of justice, the criminal justice system.
02:50.7
And unfortunately, after the first, he was the anti-politician politician.
02:59.3
After one term, he could have won another term easily.
03:04.2
And when I asked him, because I decided also to run for a second term,
03:08.6
he said, I'll just go back and practice law and go back to the things I love.
03:16.6
I said, oh, it's a waste because I remember.
03:20.1
But that's not true.
03:20.4
I think in lawmaking, with the likes of Sagi-Sagi,
03:26.0
he was the one who could explain the framework and the parameters,
03:31.0
the legal parameters that we were using in any particular subject matter that we were discussing.
03:38.8
I will remember him as a dedicated public servant and an honest person, a man with integrity.
03:50.1
And to me, that's what I remember.
03:50.4
That's one of the strongest suits that he had.
03:54.0
You made a mention, Senator Mercado, of his romance with policymaking.
04:00.1
But at the core of that, you know, for every law that he wrote, at the core of that is really the Filipino people.
04:07.8
Nowadays, I mean, you hear of politicians crafting laws with their egos at the center of that, but not Rene, not Attorney Sagi-Sag.
04:19.4
Rene, it's not about me, not about us.
04:25.2
It's about what we are supposed to do in the service of our people.
04:29.4
And for him, it seems like a simple statement, but that is the core of how to be able to provide true public service
04:38.5
by subsuming yourself in the needs of those who have elected us to public office.
04:49.4
What did you, what are you taking out of the friendship and the many hours that you spent at the Senate now that he's gone?
04:57.8
What will strike you the most?
04:59.4
Go ahead, Senator.
05:00.0
No, no, no, no, please, Rene.
05:02.7
He had, among the reporters, he had the license to make fun of us or criticize us because normally, you know, the media is always interested in political joy.
05:19.1
You know, just between groups, within parties, within personalities.
05:24.1
And he used to say, and blunt me together with the media men also because I've been in media most of my professional life.
05:34.2
Ang problema sa inyo, puro ay insultador sa sabong journalism niyo.
05:41.1
O ang gusto niyo, puro away, puro away.
05:44.5
He would say that jokingly, but there was a lot of truth in what he was saying.
05:49.1
And he was actually asking us to go to the core of the issues and discuss it dispassionately and intelligently so that we can benefit the common good.
06:03.7
He did have a wicked sense of humor. And the legacy that he leaves behind is so serious, Senator Mercado. I'm sure you know that.
06:12.0
But he himself, he did not take himself seriously. Why is that so?
06:17.1
Well, there is a wrong notion that what you need in politics and leader is somebody with strong personalities or one who can win by selling himself to the people by way of marketing himself.
06:38.9
But as I did mention, when you start with humility...
06:47.1
Accepting that, okay, these are my gifts, these are my strong points, but there are also things that I don't know very well.
06:56.4
It is the way he probes these particular issues and asks and interpolates that you can enhance the quality of the legislation that you're crafting.
07:09.7
I remember when I got interpolated by Rene, it was not because...
07:17.1
He wanted to show off his knowledge of the law or knowledge of the subject matter.
07:24.5
This is, he really felt an obligation for him to be able to participate and make sure that the laws that we are passing is really, will redound to the benefit.
07:37.1
So actually, because you cannot project that.
07:42.0
It's difficult to know how laws and policies will end up.
07:47.1
In practice, it is very educational for us to be able to listen to people who study very carefully every proposal that comes before us.
08:00.6
He took his job seriously.
08:03.4
He took the essence of the law very seriously.
08:05.9
But he knew also how to have fun.
08:12.8
You know, he was a consummate dancer.
08:16.5
Those who know him well, privately, know that he dances very well.
08:21.7
And he loves dancing.
08:23.2
And I've been telling him before, maybe this is our cure, our way of preventing, what we call, Alzheimer's disease.
08:35.0
Because we keep on moving.
08:37.9
And the last time we were conversing, when he was bedridden already, he would email me and I would email him.
08:45.3
And I used to tell him,
08:46.5
Remember, my favorite advice for people in our generation,
08:53.8
We keep on moving so that we don't die.
08:58.7
And that means, including the brain, including the mind, which has to be moving constantly and staying ahead of the curve so that we don't perish.
09:10.6
We never saw him vulnerable.
09:13.0
He was always ahead of every issue.
09:15.9
We always saw him, like, fighting every issue head on.
09:20.6
But there was only one time that we did see him vulnerable.
09:23.4
And that was when his beloved Dulce passed away.
09:26.6
Tell us about that.
09:27.4
Yeah, that was...
09:30.6
The death of Dulce, I think, was a serious body blow on him.
09:43.4
One can never fully recall.
09:45.7
I don't know how many years they covered, considering how close they were.
09:49.4
But now that they have been joined again,
09:56.4
we wish to move forward and learn the lessons from a man who really gave politics a good name.
10:05.4
Former Senator Orly Mercado, thank you so much for taking time out to talk to us this noon.
10:09.6
Really appreciate it.
10:13.8
Well, still on the life and legacy of...
10:15.6
Attorney Rene Sagisag, former senator, we're now joined by former Supreme Court spokesperson,
10:20.6
Attorney Theodore Te, he's a regional coordinator for Metro Manila of the Free Legal Assistance Group.
10:26.5
Ted, my condolences to you and the rest of the family there at FLAG.
10:32.2
Thank you. Thank you, Carmina.
10:35.6
I am, as we speak, looking at the post that you recently made on one of your social media...
10:45.6
platforms, and you speak of the many war stories that you had shared, or that he had shared with you.
10:52.4
Tell us about that, and tell us about the friendship that you had with the former senator, Rene Sagisag.
10:59.0
You know, I was fortunate to have encountered Senator Sagisag at his prime, and even beyond that.
11:10.5
And so, while I was a very young lawyer,
11:13.6
he was one of those I had read about, all of his exploits during martial law.
11:19.3
And so, I was very pleased to have, you know, met him and encountered him.
11:22.7
And he was someone who, you know, who was makwento.
11:26.2
You know, he had a lot of stories to talk about, you know, handling cases for his usual clients, the underdogs, you know.
11:36.1
And because of that, I learned a lot from him, not just about the law, not just about trying cases,
11:42.8
but about the law itself.
11:43.6
But about, I think, life, you know, and about character.
11:49.0
He having been one of those who lived through martial law and practiced law during that time, during that very difficult time.
11:59.0
So, he would, yeah, he would tell me, tell stories about facing difficult judges.
12:06.6
But one thing that always struck me about his stories was there was always something I could extract from that.
12:13.6
And that even though the, some of the stories were quite, you know, were about challenging episodes,
12:20.9
he would always find, you know, something funny, something humorous about it.
12:24.5
So, he was someone who was fun to be with, but not when he was angry or not when he was indignant about something.
12:33.8
Then he would probably, you know, see him in a very different light.
12:37.4
But yeah, I was, I think I was fortunate to have encountered him during a time of his life when he was,
12:43.6
really at his prime.
12:45.2
Here's the thing, you don't just encounter Senator Sagisag, right?
12:50.0
You can't just say you encountered him.
12:53.4
He has to encounter you too.
12:55.4
And that must have been intimidating talking to him.
12:59.5
Because he can, he could have, he can be intimidating if he wanted to.
13:04.2
But clearly with you, he opened the doors.
13:10.6
I'm not sure about that.
13:12.1
I'm not sure why.
13:13.6
You know, maybe he, you know, he probably saw that, you know,
13:17.9
I was this young lawyer trying to, trying to live out something he had already gone through,
13:26.1
a human rights practice.
13:27.9
And I remember encountering him right after his stint in Malacanang and, of course, in the Senate,
13:36.1
after his one term in the Senate.
13:38.5
And when he went back to basically the trial practice,
13:42.1
primarily because he was, you know, he was a lawyer.
13:43.6
And he was also good friends with my former boss,
13:46.8
the late Labor Minister Augusto Sanchez, Bobbitt Sanchez.
13:50.7
And they were good friends.
13:52.0
And so those were the occasions when I would, you know, about hear their war stories.
13:57.1
And so, yes, I agree, you know, he could be quite intimidating.
14:01.2
But I think he was also at a point in time where he was, he was in his, you know, teacher mode, mentor mode, probably.
14:11.2
And so he was looking already.
14:13.6
And then to pass it on.
14:17.3
And because he was constant, yes.
14:20.3
Nowadays, that seems to be a rarity, being constant with the issues, the advocacies that one has.
14:29.0
But with Senator Sagisag, he was always constant, that it was always about the Filipino people.
14:41.8
That's a good word to describe him.
14:43.1
He had his constants, his two norts.
14:46.7
But one thing also, he was very consistent about being for the underdog.
14:51.6
And sometimes it could be infuriating for people who really didn't understand where he was coming from.
14:58.9
His defense sometimes of the unpopular, you know, would be infuriating to people who, you know,
15:07.7
who saw him simply as this lawyer who was anti-dictatorial.
15:13.1
Anti-dictatorship, anti-Marcos, who would take up the cudgels for the poor.
15:18.9
But, you know, he was always consistent and constant with these causes.
15:22.5
And he would stand up for rights and for those whom he thought were, you know, were the underdogs and had everyone against them.
15:34.6
And so, yeah, you know, you could say he would always be constant, he would always be consistent.
15:41.3
And that made him...
15:43.1
You know, that made him something of a mystery to many people,
15:47.2
particularly those who were encountering him for the first time,
15:50.3
who really didn't understand how stubborn he could be when it came to this issue.
15:57.7
And he could be quite stubborn on that.
16:00.6
And when he chose to represent former President Joseph Estrada as one of his defense lawyers,
16:07.1
the way he described him, being constant, being consistent, and that led some people,
16:13.1
to see him as sort of an enigma.
16:16.0
Did it make sense to you then, when you saw him make that decision?
16:24.0
Yeah, as I said, you know, if you knew where he was coming from,
16:28.6
even if you didn't agree with many of his positions,
16:32.4
if you understood why he was taking those positions,
16:35.9
then you would have understood why he would take them, the unpopular.
16:40.3
So, for example, that's a good example.
16:43.1
He was defending Iraq.
16:45.9
You know, it was...
16:47.6
Even in the human rights community, people were saying,
16:49.8
why do that, right?
16:51.0
But again, he was someone who was quite stubborn about that.
16:54.8
And his position was, you know, he's the underdog.
16:59.4
You know, his rights were being violated.
17:04.6
He needed someone who could stand up for his rights.
17:07.1
No one else was saying that.
17:09.5
And so he thought, okay, I'll stand up for him.
17:13.1
So that's something that was, again, very consistent with Mr. Gizan.
17:21.9
He plays the trail for you guys.
17:25.5
He taught you how it should be done
17:28.1
and what should be at the core of every single case
17:31.4
and every single issue that you take up.
17:35.8
To you personally, Atirinite,
17:38.4
what is the legacy that he leaves behind?
17:40.6
What is the influence that he had on you?
17:43.1
You know, Sen. Sagisag, Atirinite Sagisag,
17:48.1
was one of many who opened the doors.
17:52.0
You had the Diokno, the Taniada, Arroyo, Sagisag.
17:58.3
You know, you could say he's one of the OGs, right?
18:02.9
And therefore, you know, he opened the door for many of us.
18:08.4
And along the way, you could say his legacy really was
18:13.1
standing up for the unpopular,
18:16.8
standing up for the downtrodden,
18:19.2
standing up and speaking out,
18:20.8
even when it was unpopular,
18:23.7
when it was difficult,
18:25.2
and when it was dangerous.
18:27.2
And I think that is a legacy that he will leave
18:31.2
for younger lawyers,
18:33.5
for future generations
18:34.7
who no longer have the fortune of encountering him.
18:43.1
I recall, you know, I still recall
18:45.1
what he said during that case where, you know,
18:50.6
I was one of the respondents in the sedition case
18:52.8
filed during the Tutec administration.
18:55.1
He was a co-counsel to one of the respondents.
18:58.6
And during the preliminary investigation,
19:00.8
he stood up, you know,
19:01.9
and became Atirinite Sagisag all over again
19:05.7
despite his weakened physical stature.
19:09.7
And he basically just told the panel of prosecutors,
19:12.6
okay, magpakatuta dito.
19:14.5
And, you know, that was, that was Tene,
19:17.0
that was Atirinite.
19:18.6
And so that's his legacy, I think,
19:20.7
being courageous in difficult times,
19:24.0
being consistent,
19:25.8
you know, and standing up and speaking out
19:28.4
for those who really have no voice.
19:31.2
And I will be thankful that he was one of those
19:35.2
who really opened the doors for many of us.
19:37.6
Because he never thought twice, yes, Atirinite?
19:40.6
He just threw himself out.
19:42.6
It was very clear to him what had to be done.
19:45.9
And there were no second thoughts,
19:47.5
no second guessing where that might lead him.
19:51.5
Yes, he could be that way.
19:54.4
And that's why he could also be infuriating
19:56.3
to people who didn't understand.
19:58.2
And because he could be quite stubborn as well.
20:01.1
And be very outspoken.
20:03.1
Did you ever question any of the decisions that he made?
20:08.4
I don't think I would be in a position to question,
20:12.6
So I'm one of those who basically just was curiously observing how he would make decisions and trying to pick up from him and many other senior lawyers how this type of life, this type of lawyering could be done.
20:30.3
And I don't think I was in a position to question him. But of course, I tried to understand where he was coming from because I understood that perhaps one day I might be placed in the same situation as he was often in, defending an unpopular cause, defending an unpopular client, taking the difficult positions.
21:00.3
Many times I had been placed in that kind of a situation. And so picking up from lessons learned from him and many other lawyers, I managed to squeak by. But that's really because I had opportunity to learn from them, including Attorney Rene.
21:22.9
Well, thank you for taking time out to talk to us today, Attorney Theodore Tede of the Free Legal Assistance Group.
21:30.3
former spokesperson of the Supreme Court.
21:33.0
Again, our deepest condolences.
21:36.0
Thank you, Carmina. Always a pleasure.
