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00:00.0
The views and opinions expressed in the following program do not necessarily reflect the policies and position of this network.
00:30.0
Secretary Jericho Petilia, as we discuss the power crisis in the Philippines, and later on, Carlos Conde of the Human Rights Watch will be joining us.
00:42.3
First, the headlines.
00:44.8
Today's big stories, Philippine authorities going after those behind a deep fake audio of President Marcos Jr.
00:54.2
U.S. President Joe Biden signs a multi-billion dollar aid package.
01:00.0
for Ukraine, Israel, and the Indo-Pacific after months of delay.
01:06.5
And Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu condemns the ongoing pro-Palestinian protests across colleges in the U.S.
01:19.3
Philippine authorities set to go after individuals behind a manipulated audio of President Marcos Jr.
01:27.4
Vivian Gulia reports.
01:30.0
The video shown to media by an official of the Department of Information and Communications Technology is accompanied by audio that mimics the voice of the President to make it sound like he authorized the use of force against another country.
01:43.6
I told our brave soldiers to stay in China if necessary.
01:51.4
We must use our strength to stop these bullies.
01:57.1
The President's initials also appeared in the title of the video posted on a YouTube channel with more than 12,000 subscribers.
02:05.1
The Presidential Communications Office and the DICT slammed the audio as deep fake or manipulated and stressed that President Ferdinand Marcos Jr. issued no such directive.
02:16.5
He used the voice of the President and made a script to fit it into the video that looked like he was speaking.
02:27.1
The President's initials also appeared in the title of the video posted on a YouTube channel with more than 12,000 subscribers.
02:57.1
The President's initials also appeared in the title of the video posted on a YouTube channel with more than 12,000 subscribers.
02:57.1
The copies like the ones shown to media on Wednesday continue to surface online.
03:01.8
The DICD is coordinating with online platforms to take these down.
03:06.2
It will also report the matter to law enforcement agencies for an investigation.
03:10.6
Definitely it's a cybercrime.
03:11.8
Whether or not there are other laws or crimes committed, we'll leave that to the prosecution, to the DOJ.
03:24.9
So we'll have to communicate with YouTube, kanina yung account.
03:27.6
An account would definitely have some sort of authentication mechanism, like a mobile phone and an email address.
03:35.6
And because we already have a SIM card registration act, then it's a matter of identifying who the owner of that mobile phone number is.
03:43.6
Even digital forensics would be able to assist us.
03:46.4
The National Security Council believes the video is related to the ongoing Malikatan exercises in the West Philippine Sea between the Philippines and the United States.
03:56.0
But it's stressed that the Philippines...
03:57.1
The Philippines is not on war footing.
03:59.6
We have been doing this for the past, what, four decades.
04:02.8
Taon-taon po natin ang ginagawa.
04:04.9
This is not a prelude to war.
04:06.5
This is just a preparation of both countries for whatever threat there may be in accordance with the Mutual Defense Treaty.
04:15.6
Malaya adds the exercises in the West Philippine Sea are not intended against any country, but to ensure freedom of navigation.
04:22.9
The government urged the public to be vigilant against disinformation,
04:27.1
by the information they get online from reliable sources,
04:30.4
and report manipulated content to the DICT, the National Telecommunications Office,
04:35.7
or the social media platform where it appeared.
04:38.7
Vivian Gulia, ABS-CBN News.
04:43.5
On Hot Copy this morning, industry players warned the power situation in the Philippines could worsen further
04:50.9
as the country deals with searing temperatures.
04:55.0
Alvin El Chico reports.
04:57.1
After Luzon and Visayas, now comes Mindanao.
05:01.5
The National Grid Corporation declared a yellow alert status for Mindanao from 10 a.m. until 4 p.m. Wednesday,
05:08.6
which means thinning electricity reserve.
05:11.5
Merong malaking planta na nag-out na coal, nasa 138 megawatt siya.
05:17.9
So, noong April 17, may isa pang coal na 135 naman.
05:22.7
And of course, yung mga hydro natin,
05:27.1
medyo mababa talaga ang paggawa niya ng kuryente.
05:32.7
Since it's impossible to build power plants overnight,
05:35.8
the Energy Department has no choice but to resort to demand-side management,
05:40.2
which means appealing to consumers to use energy efficiently.
05:44.7
Hindi naman bawal ang mag-aircon, for example,
05:48.7
pero siguro dapat yung maayos lang ng paggamit ng ating mga appliances.
05:54.0
Halimbawa, sa aircon, sa halip na 18 degrees yung setting natin,
05:57.3
pwede naman tayo ng 25 degrees or even a little lower at 23 degrees.
06:03.0
But it appears that the appeal is not working as the country posted the highest electricity consumption
06:08.8
for 2024 last Tuesday amid rising temperatures all over the country.
06:14.2
Ito siguro na ang naging dahilan kung kaya't nagkaroon tayo ng pag-nipis ng supply ng kuryente,
06:20.8
lalong-lalo na sa ating mga reserba.
06:23.5
None of the industry experts ABS-CBN talked to,
06:26.3
can categorically declare that the power situation will be back to normal soon
06:31.1
considering the number of plants on shutdown.
06:34.2
According to NJCP and Miralco, it's possible that the worst is yet to come.
06:40.1
Kailangan natin ang tabayanan araw-araw kung mag-improve ba yung sitwasyon
06:44.5
at yun na lang talaga ang magagawa natin sa ngayon.
06:49.0
Yun yung kailangan din natin pang pagpahandaan.
06:51.4
Hindi pa ito tapos.
06:52.7
Gusto ko lang sabihin sa ating mga kababayan,
06:56.3
the highest demand yet based on the historical data that we have.
07:01.0
Alvin Olchico, ABS-CBN News.
07:05.5
And joining us on Hot Copy this morning,
07:08.1
we have with us former Energy Secretary and later Governor Jericho Petilia.
07:13.3
Good morning to you, sir.
07:15.3
Good morning, Karen. It's good to see you again.
07:18.7
And thank you for inviting me.
07:20.9
Alright, after so many years, you've been Energy Secretary.
07:26.3
Are we still in the same situation?
07:32.1
It's a bit complicated when it comes to power management dito sa Pilipinas.
07:38.2
But suffice to say that it will happen again.
07:41.9
Kung makakalusot tayo ngayon, it will happen again if we don't have the proper preparation.
07:48.9
Because ang tuwing summer, talagang mainit na mainit.
07:53.1
It's so warm that actually the plants actually break.
07:56.3
When I was a secretary before, we kind of investigated this kasi merong pollution nga sinasabi.
08:03.1
Pero wala kang magawa if you actually ask them,
08:06.6
push it more because we need more power, ang kalalabasan is it breaks down.
08:11.1
That's one of the reasons.
08:13.4
Siguro, Karen, every summer we have this problem.
08:16.5
Ang tanong is, don't we have enough reserve?
08:20.9
Probably we have, but it's not enough.
08:22.7
And at the same time, we don't have enough plants.
08:26.3
To actually cover the reserves in times like this, na medyo unusual.
08:30.7
Although ang summer alam natin na ang hydro natin walang tubig.
08:35.1
Tapos ang mga coal plants natin talagang todo-todo.
08:38.1
Although nakakatulong ang solar, but only on daytime.
08:41.1
Kasi wala pa tayong battery deployed sa mga power.
08:44.1
So it's going to be like this for forever.
08:49.1
And it's just a matter of actually managing it.
08:51.6
Is it just managing it?
08:56.3
Do we need more power plants?
08:58.3
Well, part of the management is actually putting additional plants.
09:02.3
The problem, Karen, with putting additional plants is that,
09:06.3
well and good, if we have enough power, if we have enough plants,
09:10.3
then hindi tayo magbabrown out.
09:12.3
However, if you overbuild, somebody will have to pay for it.
09:17.3
Sino magbabayad, tayo rin. Ang taong bayan rin.
09:20.3
In other words, nobody will build a plant kung walang taker.
09:25.3
If I have to build a plant and it's a baseload plant, kailangan umaandar ito parati.
09:31.3
Paano naman pag bandang September, August, hindi ko kailangan ito?
09:36.3
Somebody will still have to pay for it because it's been built.
09:39.3
So that's why there has to be a balance of how many plants you need
09:44.3
and ano ang demand side natin.
09:48.3
It's a series of projection.
09:50.3
But the series of projection is not only projecting the demand side,
09:54.3
kung ilang kakailanganin natin.
09:56.3
I feel that part of the government's job also is to predict.
10:02.3
Take note, ha? Predict. Medyo mahirap ito. Pero we've done it in the past.
10:06.3
To predict when each individual plant will break down or when it will give the most output.
10:14.3
Because these are exact numbers if we can.
10:20.3
Pag sobra, mahal.
10:22.3
Pag kulang, brownout.
10:24.3
So it's sensitive and it's a numbers game pagdating sa power.
10:30.3
Oo. Now, you suggested, Governor, that the government should put up its own power plant.
10:37.3
Yes, I did suggest that kahit sekretary pa ako noon, medyo inaway lang ako or suggested.
10:44.3
Pero ang tanong ko, are you role modeling from another country?
10:48.3
Are there countries that do this?
10:50.3
It is not a role model, okay?
10:53.3
Because if we keep on copying them, hindi tayo makakakopya talaga.
10:57.3
Kasi if you look at the situation of the Philippines, kung titignan mo, we cannot copy Germany.
11:04.3
We cannot copy even Thailand.
11:06.3
We're a series of, we're a set of islands, 7,100, okay?
11:12.3
Sabihin na lang natin, only a few are inhabited.
11:15.3
Pero you have to bear in mind that our structure, ang topography,
11:18.3
natin is iba sa kanila.
11:22.3
So why do I say that we need, it's just a matter of practicality, okay?
11:28.3
If you look at the supply and demand graph, okay, ganito yan.
11:33.3
Si Meralco sasabihin, I need to contract a plant to be built 5 years from now.
11:39.3
Bakit 5 years from now? Because it takes 5 years to build a plant.
11:43.3
So that means, Meralco will have to estimate,
11:46.3
ano ang kailangan natin 5 years from now for him to be able to contract.
11:51.3
Okay? Kaya lang, may nakontract na siya, kaya lang maraming mga delays yung iba.
11:56.3
Iba walang permit, merong problema sa IP, merong problema sa DNR.
12:00.3
At every time, every time hindi natatapos to, and it is already projected, including na siya sa projection,
12:07.3
ano mangyayari? We have a shortfall. Hindi tatama.
12:10.3
Okay, but Governor, let's talk about something specific.
12:14.3
How feasible is a government or the government building a power plant?
12:19.3
How much money are we talking about? What are the benefits of the government getting into it?
12:25.3
Okay, the last time I checked is a megawatt costs about 2 million dollars.
12:32.3
So 500 megawatt should cost about a billion.
12:35.3
It's less than that now to build a plant.
12:39.3
Okay, I don't know the exact figure, but I'll put it at a maximum, at a billion.
12:43.3
And in our last estimate, para patakbuhin to without, para i-maintain to without running,
12:51.3
is probably roughly around 500 million.
12:54.3
Okay? I'd say it's about a billion now siguro with all the personnel and everything.
12:59.3
Iba pa yan pag tumakbo. Pero pag tumakbo yan, bayad yan.
13:03.3
Babayaran yan. Hindi yan tatakbo ng libre.
13:06.3
How feasible it is? Law-wise, the IPRA says that NAPOCOR,
13:12.3
is not allowed to build a plant anymore. But it specifically said NAPOCOR.
13:17.3
It did not say the government itself. Hindi sinabi na siguro ang intention is ganyan,
13:23.3
pero the law itself says NAPOCOR lang talaga ang bawal magtayo.
13:27.3
So PNOC can if they want to.
13:31.3
But then why would that be a better idea instead of let's say partnering with a private sector
13:38.3
to build a plant together?
13:40.3
Yes, you can do that.
13:42.3
Pero ganito ang mangyayari. Okay?
13:45.3
The idea of the government plant, a plant being owned by the government,
13:50.3
is on the premise that hindi ito tatakbo pag hindi kailangan.
13:55.3
So we're actually saying that the plant should be easy to deploy like a diesel plant.
14:03.3
Hindi coal plant na 8 hours muna para painitin.
14:06.3
With 15 minutes, the diesel plant can come in already.
14:09.3
But it's expensive to run it.
14:12.3
And this plant will have to actually participate in USM.
14:17.3
In other words, hindi siya tatakbo just because patatakbuhin.
14:20.3
He will have to compete with all others.
14:23.3
Being an expensive plant, okay, hindi yan tatakbo pag maraming supply.
14:30.3
Parating hindi ma-deploy yan.
14:32.3
It will not be dispatched because it is expensive.
14:35.3
However, during times na manipis na manipis ang ating kuryente,
14:40.3
walang choice kung di tumako siya.
14:42.3
It's going to be expensive.
14:44.3
But, okay, that's the beauty of it. Tatakbo lang siya.
14:48.3
Pag manipis, mahal. Okay?
14:51.3
So ang private sector sasabihin, eto na naman si gobyerno.
14:54.3
You're dipping your hands into the...
14:59.3
You're joining basically what you're supposed not to participate in terms of generation.
15:05.3
Well, ang sinasabi ko naman dito is that the plant will only run,
15:08.3
kung merong enough supply.
15:11.3
So kayong private sector, make sure there is enough supply.
15:14.3
Pero kung talagang hindi maiwasan kasi hindi naman yung kasalanan,
15:18.3
permitting and all those things, at least you have a reserve which will come in.
15:22.3
And the cost to this is basically that will not be absorbed by the people probably is
15:29.3
when it's idle, when it's not running kasi merong cost.
15:38.3
ang sinasabi dito parat, because this has been a problem already in the past, no?
15:42.3
Sabi nila, ano ba ang role ng gobyerno?
15:44.3
Being a governor, ang sinasabi ko parate is the government should never go into business.
15:50.3
Because it's a very poor businessman.
15:53.3
It should only go into business when it is required to do so, kailangan,
15:59.3
and the private sector does not want to engage.
16:02.3
So I agree with you. Let's look at the private sector.
16:05.3
But this has been happening for so many years already.
16:08.3
So why not put an insurance? This is only an insurance.
16:12.3
Sabi nga nila, eh paano kung nag-maintain ka yan?
16:15.3
One billion pesos pero sa isang taon hindi umandar kasi maraming supply.
16:20.3
Parang healthcare yan. Parang health plan mo.
16:24.3
Hindi mo naman sasabihin, Karen, na ay sayang sa isang taon nagbayad ako ng 50,000 sa healthcare plan ko pero hindi ako nagkasakit.
16:31.3
You know, you're actually glad not to use it.
16:34.3
So ito is like an insurance.
16:36.3
You will be glad.
16:37.3
You will be glad and you'll be happy not to use it.
16:39.3
But when the time comes that you need it, you'll be the happiest person while you have an insurance.
16:44.3
Okay. But should it be a diesel plant or should it be nuclear?
16:51.3
If it's a nuclear plant, then it will become a baseload plant na parating tumatakbo.
16:57.3
What we need is to kind of satisfy the private sector na hindi pa pasok si gobyerno when unnecessarily.
17:07.3
Then you have to put an expensive plant so that it will not be dispatched during times na maraming supply.
17:14.3
Kasi pag pumasok si nuclear power plant, sasabihin ng lahat, dapat din natin paanda rin yan. Mas mura yan.
17:19.3
Okay. Pero ang tanong ko, Governor, so a power plant takes, what, five to seven years to build, right?
17:27.3
Let's say this diesel plant, the nuclear power plant right now, they say it will also be built, this modular plant,
17:35.3
already after the term of President Marcos Jr., correct?
17:40.3
The diesel plant, Karen, the modular diesel plants, may mga five megawatt.
17:46.3
No, modular nuclear.
17:48.3
No, but there's also a modular diesel plant.
17:51.3
Ah, meron din. Okay.
17:53.3
The modular diesel plants can be deployed in less than a year.
17:59.3
Okay. If you want a permanent diesel plant, bunker fuel, mas cheaper,
18:05.3
it's not also going to take five years because it's one of the fastest plants to actually build kung piting na natin.
18:12.3
Because modular na ito, gawa na eh. And there are no requirements.
18:16.3
Ang nuclear power plants, marami pang requirements. For example, on the nuclear, and I'm, I'm,
18:22.3
somebody asked me before, are you in favor of nuclear power plants? Sabi ko, I'm in favor of nuclear power plants.
18:27.3
Not, not to replace all plants but as one of the mix that we have. We have to have a good mix.
18:34.3
Problema lang sa nuclear power plant is kung noon, bataan nuclear power plant, kailangan mo na isang wall.
18:40.3
Ngayon, yung mga industry standards nang babago na eh. Iba, kailangan ng five walls.
18:44.3
So modular in nature ang planta mo pero ang infra requirement mo is mabigat.
18:50.3
Pangalawa, we have to have a nuclear commission also, credible one.
18:55.3
Because even if you have a nuclear power plant, pag wala kang nuclear commission na trusted by the international community, hindi ka bebentahan.
19:05.8
But isn't that the PNRI?
19:09.5
The Philippine Nuclear
19:10.4
Research Institute?
19:12.9
It can be them, but do they
19:14.5
have the experience to actually manage
19:16.5
a nuclear power plant?
19:18.0
Or to oversee as a regulator?
19:20.2
That is another question. And then finally,
19:23.2
when planning all these things,
19:24.6
okay, we have a nuclear power
19:26.6
plant, but what people are
19:28.5
forgetting all the time when we have a nuclear power
19:30.7
plant is, where do you put the waste?
19:32.5
And for the next 300
19:34.5
years, that waste
19:36.5
will have to be intact, okay?
19:38.6
Otherwise, it will be a disaster
19:42.4
waste natin, mali ang pag-store
19:44.4
natin. Yung ibang countries nga,
19:46.3
nagko-contractan ng ibang
19:48.4
poorer countries to actually store
19:50.4
their waste material, okay?
19:52.6
Which is also unethical to some point.
19:54.4
So we have to be prepared also for that
19:58.3
Now, should the President lift
20:00.6
the moratorium on
20:10.2
we have alternatives,
20:12.8
okay, I think we have to
20:14.4
take whatever we can,
20:16.2
the resources, to make sure that wala tayong
20:18.4
brownout. Because the
20:19.8
impact on the economy, pag
20:22.2
wala tayong enough power, is
20:26.4
very heavy on the economy.
20:28.7
Yeah. So interesting.
20:30.6
Interesting, because the moratorium
20:34.0
during former President Duterte's
20:36.1
time, right? But you do
20:38.2
have ASEAN countries, for example,
20:40.5
that don't have a moratorium
20:42.2
on coal. Indonesia,
20:44.4
for example, right?
20:46.0
That's one. They're a growing economy.
20:48.5
They still build coal.
20:50.3
Malaysia, I'm assuming, is the same.
20:52.9
So do you believe
20:54.0
the moratorium on coal
20:55.6
doesn't benefit the country
20:59.8
Well, you talk about Malaysia,
21:02.2
you talk about Indonesia. Let's
21:04.0
go a bit further. Let's go to Germany, for example.
21:07.3
Sila ang number one
21:09.7
renewable energy.
21:13.0
Pero they also rely
21:14.4
on coal, coal plants,
21:20.9
Everybody's using coal
21:22.3
plants, kung totoosin, because you can't
21:24.2
avoid it. You can't have
21:26.1
a fully renewable energy
21:28.3
at this point until technology come in.
21:30.6
In other words, while waiting for other
21:32.2
technology, we simply have to
21:34.3
do whatever we can afford
21:36.2
at this point. And coal
21:37.8
appears to be, well, maraming
21:40.4
magagalit na environmentalist.
21:42.8
Pero, unfortunately,
21:44.7
yun pa rin ang cheapest ngayon.
21:46.1
Kung ang nuclear power plant,
21:50.3
form of electricity and power,
21:52.9
you'll be surprised. The new numbers
21:54.3
show that coal is even cheaper.
21:57.9
But from the time you were energy secretary,
22:00.9
what has improved?
22:02.2
Or do you believe it remains
22:04.4
the same? It was interesting
22:08.2
told me yesterday, not a lot
22:10.4
of power plants went online
22:12.4
during Duterte's time.
22:18.2
what was the growth of plants?
22:21.0
The growth of plants,
22:22.3
actually, ang growth ng demand natin is about
22:30.2
including reserves. Okay.
22:32.2
You'd be safe in terms of demand,
22:34.4
okay, for electricity.
22:37.3
So, we have to build
22:38.6
accordingly. Pero, the government, again,
22:40.5
cannot build. It is actually the distribution
22:42.7
utility, like Miralco,
22:44.3
who should be telling the
22:46.5
power players, build more plants.
22:48.5
Actually, ang demand side
22:50.7
dito ang nag-dedicate.
22:52.5
Okay, it's not the power plant itself.
22:54.2
Hindi ako pwede magtayo ng planta, basta-basta.
22:56.6
Somebody will have to contract me.
22:58.2
And usually, ang makakontrata ko
23:00.5
is distribution utility.
23:03.7
co-ops natin at saka yung Miralco.
23:06.6
Unless they contract,
23:08.6
I will not build a plant.
23:10.0
That's the bottom line.
23:11.9
But there is a way na ang gobyerno
23:14.7
sinasabi, you don't need
23:16.4
Miralco or distribution
23:20.3
Ang tawag namin dyan sa panahon
23:22.5
ni President Aquino was
23:23.8
PD and Tariff, FIP.
23:26.9
Okay. Ang sinasabi ng gobyerno,
23:30.2
we need more renewables.
23:32.2
And walang magkakontrata ng
23:33.9
renewable company kung si
23:36.0
Miralco ang tatanungin, bakit?
23:37.8
Because it's more expensive.
23:40.3
Unintermittent for that nature.
23:42.0
But we need them just the same.
23:43.8
So dito papasok si gobyerno.
23:45.8
So siya ang nag-force, not really force
23:49.0
bid it out, okay,
23:52.2
a certain number of megawatts
23:53.8
na ibibuild at guaranteed
23:55.9
ang payment ng a certain amount.
23:58.0
Okay, yun ang ginawa natin.
23:59.8
Maraming umayaw niyan dati.
24:02.2
Oo. Because of course, it was passed
24:04.4
on to the consumer.
24:05.8
Yes, it was passed on to the consumers
24:07.9
kasi merong available
24:10.8
dispatchable, readily dispatchable,
24:15.2
yun ang mauna parati.
24:16.8
So maraming ayaw nun.
24:19.2
Pero ang sabi ko,
24:20.6
in the end, kung malaki na
24:22.0
ang ating renewable energy
24:23.5
na pumapasok sa grid, okay,
24:25.9
and you have a certain
24:30.3
eventually ang effect niyan is magmumura din.
24:32.2
Bako. Which happened now?
24:34.8
Which is happening now.
24:38.8
During that time, ang sinasabi ng lahat,
24:40.5
bako, ang tagal niyan. Tapos paano yan?
24:42.5
20 years ang kontrata.
24:44.2
Sabi nila, sabi ko, if we started
24:46.2
20 years ago, tapos na tayo.
24:48.9
Parati tayong sinasabi, matagal.
24:52.1
governor, how many megawatts
24:54.6
does the Philippines need today?
24:59.9
Unfortunately, I'm not the secretary anymore.
25:02.2
But I was thinking you might have...
25:05.3
But I think, okay, I think
25:13.7
Our plants' installed capacity
25:16.1
is, I think, over 15,000.
25:19.7
The problem is, basically,
25:22.3
is anybody projecting
25:23.7
kung magkano ang...
25:25.5
ilan ang outage natin,
25:27.9
forced outage and
25:29.1
voluntary outage every day?
25:32.2
when I was the secretary,
25:33.5
I was very conscious about the outages.
25:35.6
Yung one time I projected in summer,
25:38.4
there will be 2,800
25:39.8
megawatts na outage.
25:42.2
Talagang nag-react.
25:43.3
Lahat ka agad. Ano ba yan?
25:45.2
Okay, doomsday scenario.
25:46.6
But that's what the data is showing.
25:48.9
And we have to deal with data
25:50.6
when it comes to energy.
25:52.4
Okay. So, my last question is,
25:55.3
if you were to recommend
25:57.0
the president has five years,
25:59.9
do you think in the five years,
26:02.2
there should be more
26:05.6
coal power plants put up?
26:08.1
Because this is the controversial aspect.
26:10.9
It will solve energy problems.
26:15.4
the world isn't going into coal.
26:17.5
It's moving out of coal.
26:19.5
But you have ASEAN countries
26:21.0
that are still doing coal.
26:23.0
And a lot of coal.
26:25.7
My answer to that is,
26:27.2
when I left, okay,
26:28.7
the energy department before,
26:31.3
one of the things that,
26:32.2
I did was actually draft
26:35.6
Na-controversial din.
26:38.0
Which is now being,
26:41.2
it's being followed already
26:44.1
Competitive selection process.
26:46.3
Ang sinasabi lang dito
26:50.0
Miralco, for example,
26:51.8
a 500 megawatt plant,
26:54.2
ang sinasabi lang naman dito
26:56.2
wag ka na mong kontrata
26:59.9
Put it out in the open
27:02.2
and kind of bid it out
27:03.6
kung sino yung cheapest
27:05.2
at hindi lang cheapest,
27:07.1
the one that will comply
27:08.3
sa inyong power sales agreement.
27:12.1
So, ilalagay mo yan.
27:16.7
parami namang papasok dyan.
27:18.4
Kailangang presyo mahal.
27:20.4
It can be more expensive.
27:23.3
ang coal lang dito
27:25.8
Pero, building the plants,
27:28.2
it shouldn't stop
27:29.2
the private sector
27:30.1
if Miralco will contract them.
27:34.3
kung ang presidente
27:35.1
sasabing niya walang coal
27:36.8
it will be more expensive.
27:39.3
walang coal talaga ngayon.
27:41.9
walang coal building.
27:43.7
Walang coal building,
27:49.4
meron tayong diesel plant.
27:55.5
is actually more pollutant
27:59.8
We still have bunker fuels,
28:05.3
we can build diesel plants,
28:08.5
they're bigger pollutants
28:11.4
the bunker fuel diesel
28:12.6
is more pollutant
28:14.6
And are we still building
28:15.8
bunker fuel diesel today?
28:18.9
I'm not sure anymore
28:20.0
because I've not been
28:21.8
pero the SPAG area
28:22.8
actually needs them
28:23.8
because they need
28:26.2
Di malaki ang needs nila
28:28.7
pipe power plant.
28:32.2
it's really bunker fuel din.
28:33.8
I think it's more on,
28:36.5
instead of saying
28:40.0
ng standard sa emission
28:41.2
na eto ang kailangan natin
28:46.1
ang emission level na to,
28:50.4
yung coal-fired plants
28:52.1
will simply have to
28:53.4
upgrade themselves
28:57.1
Instead of banning
29:05.0
hindi pwedeng lumampas
29:08.4
there is a chance
29:09.2
That's interesting.
29:10.9
Just set an emission
29:13.3
Emission standard
29:15.3
what kind of plant
29:16.0
you're gonna come up with.
29:19.6
That is interesting.
29:21.2
Thank you so much
29:21.9
for joining me today.
29:23.4
And former Energy Secretary
29:27.6
Thank you very much,
29:31.0
We're gonna get started.
29:31.6
We'll be right back.
29:32.8
We'll be right back.
29:32.8
We'll be right back.
29:35.9
We'll be right back.
29:40.0
We'll be right back.
29:57.2
We'll be right back.
29:57.4
We'll be right back.
29:59.4
We'll be right back.
29:60.0
We'll be right back.
30:00.5
We'll be right back.
30:01.6
Welcome back to Head Start.
30:09.9
Recent reports from the U.S. State Department and Amnesty International
30:14.6
show extrajudicial killings or EJKs continue in the Philippines.
30:23.3
Extrajudicial killings remain a serious problem in the Philippines.
30:26.7
That's according to a U.S. State Department report which showed in 2023.
30:32.8
The killings were largely carried out by police and other security forces.
30:37.4
It notes, impunity was a significant problem, particularly in the Philippine National Police.
30:44.5
Among the killings highlighted in the report,
30:47.1
the murder of Negros Oriental Governor Roel Digamo in March last year
30:51.1
and the death of 17-year-old Jemboy Baltazar at the hands of Navotas Police.
30:56.7
The U.S. State Department says,
30:59.1
while the number of EJKs in the Philippines decreased in 2023,
31:03.8
there were no significant changes in the human rights situation in the country.
31:08.6
Standing up for freedom and human rights is simply the right thing to do.
31:13.0
But defending and promoting these inalienable and universal rights
31:16.2
is also profoundly in our national interest.
31:20.1
Countries that respect human rights are more likely to be peaceful, prosperous, stable.
31:26.7
The Philippine government rejecting the report.
31:29.8
The Justice Department says,
31:31.5
it is making a serious effort to safeguard human rights
31:34.8
and stop extrajudicial killings in the country.
31:38.7
Justice Secretary Jesus Crispin Remulia insists,
31:42.3
reforms are in place to strengthen the country's criminal justice system.
31:47.7
As for the Foreign Affairs Department,
31:49.6
it says the U.S. Government report does not reflect the situation on the ground,
31:55.1
including the accomplishments of the U.S. Department of Justice.
31:56.7
of the Marcos administration on upholding human rights.
32:01.3
The agency also says,
32:02.8
the U.S. State Department must exercise due diligence
32:06.0
to ensure more reliable reporting.
32:09.0
Meanwhile, a separate report by Amnesty International says,
32:12.4
summary executions in the Philippines persisted in 2023.
32:17.0
The rights watchdog cited a local research group,
32:20.5
which said 329 persons died in police anti-drug operations
32:25.2
or were killed by the U.S. Department of Justice.
32:26.7
The report also said,
32:27.6
the drug was used by unidentified assailants.
32:28.8
It notes, the killings continued,
32:31.4
despite the claim of President Ferdinand Marcos Jr.
32:34.4
that his administration was addressing the drug problem
32:37.6
through prevention and rehabilitation.
32:41.0
Philippine authorities recently confiscated 1.8 tons of illegal drugs in Batangas,
32:46.4
making it the biggest ever drug seizure in the country's history.
32:50.6
Marcos personally inspected the drug hall to send a clear message,
32:54.8
a drug war can be succeeded,
32:56.7
without resorting to violence.
32:59.8
I would like also to point out
33:02.8
that this is the biggest shipment of Shabu na nahuli natin.
33:07.7
But not one person died.
33:12.1
Walang namatay, walang nagputukan, walang nasaktan.
33:17.2
Basta't inoperate natin, nandahan-dahan,
33:20.2
yun naman dapat ang approach.
33:21.8
Para sa akin, yun dapat ang approach sa drug war.
33:24.2
Na ang pinakaimportante,
33:26.7
is matigil natin ang pag-ship ng mga drugs dito sa pagpasok sa Pilipinas.
33:35.5
Before the Marcos administration took office,
33:38.2
the drug war of former President Rodrigo Duterte
33:40.6
had been widely criticized for thousands of alleged EJ case.
33:45.6
The International Criminal Court is investigating the bloody narcotics campaign.
33:50.7
But the Philippine government vows not to cooperate.
33:53.5
We have a working judicial system,
33:56.7
we have courts that can be heard
33:59.9
if there are abuses and irregularities in the PNP.
34:05.0
And we have proven it
34:07.6
because we have police that have been arrested,
34:09.8
arrested and convicted.
34:11.2
So that's what the PNP will do
34:13.6
if we break the PNP's jurisdiction.
34:17.6
Dino Ponte Arig, ABS-CBN News.
34:22.8
And we're now joined by Carlos Conde,
34:25.1
senior researcher at the PNP.
34:25.6
And we're now joined by Carlos Conde, senior researcher at the PNP.
34:26.2
And we're now joined by Carlos Conde, senior researcher at the PNP.
34:26.7
And we're now joined by Carlos Conde, senior researcher at the Asia Division of the Human Rights Watch.
34:29.9
Mr. Conde, good morning to you.
34:32.4
Hi, good morning, Karen,
34:33.3
and I'm glad to be back on your program.
34:35.8
Alright, is the report believable?
34:39.9
We find the US State Department Human Rights Report
34:43.7
adequate, accurate,
34:48.2
and I think contrary to what the DFA is saying,
34:51.1
we think it represents what's happening in the country
34:55.1
as far as human rights,
34:56.7
But then why would EJ case be going on if this administration, number one, doesn't have the same drug war policy as the last administration?
35:09.7
You have a president that just touted that it was the biggest drug hole without anyone being killed.
35:17.4
In other words, they're completely different policies.
35:21.6
So if it's accurate, why hasn't it changed?
35:27.4
That's a good question and several things to unpack there, Karen.
35:30.4
One is that when you look at the behavior of law enforcers, the police of today and all of that,
35:37.8
accountability is practically zero for all those abuses that were committed in the past.
35:42.6
So wala pang nananagot. Out of the thousands of cases, dalawa pa lang ang nagkaroon ng conviction.
35:48.9
So this is impunity talaga because the authorities are being given so much leeway to do what they want.
35:56.7
They have been doing since 2016. So wala nga pa panagot.
35:59.6
And you know how it is. If you're not punishing perpetrators, the abuses will continue.
36:04.8
And second, it is not true that there's a change in policy already in the drug war.
36:09.6
Because regardless of what Mr. Marcos is saying about the shift, the drug war policy of Mr. Duterte is still in place.
36:17.3
Mr. Marcos has not rescinded or junked the policies, the executive orders that were made.
36:24.6
O plantok hang, operation double barrel possible. It's still there. And the police are still using it.
36:31.7
So these combinations of factors are the reason why the killings are happening.
36:37.6
And just to, I think, update the figure here, the U.S. State Department report said that 300 have been killed in the drug war under Marcos.
36:48.2
Today, it's now more than 620 have died in the drug war.
36:54.9
And this is according to the UP Third World Study Center, DAHAS, monitoring.
37:00.1
So it is a very credible group of academics who are monitoring and documenting these cases.
37:07.0
So, you know, again, going back, wala nga nanagot. There's practically zero accountability.
37:13.0
People are not being punished. So that's why all of these things are happening.
37:17.3
Okay. So you pointed two things there. Number one, the justice system is so slow that it doesn't elicit fear.
37:24.6
Right? For those who may want to perpetrate the crime.
37:28.7
Number two is, are you saying the president has to rescind the former president's orders?
37:35.4
That would make a difference?
37:38.0
Well, on that point, I think it will make a very, very, an extremely important difference.
37:44.8
I mean, this is something that I obviously yesterday pointed out.
37:47.2
Mr. Marcos need to officially and equivalently, explicitly rescind the order of the drug war.
37:54.6
As long as it's there, anybody from the police force can still use it, can still use it to justify whatever actions they make.
38:02.0
And keep in mind, Karen, the drug war of Mr. Duterte that started in 2016, a lot of it is very, very abusive.
38:09.2
And they got away with it because of all of these orders coming from the president's office.
38:15.5
So Mr. Marcos really has to, you know, unequivocally rescind those orders and then communicate to the police that, look, stop the violence.
38:24.6
So you're not saying that the government should stop dealing with the drug issue, but stop the violence, stop the drug raids that are victimizing a lot of people, even innocent ones.
38:37.4
Carlos, I'm curious.
38:41.5
What Justice Secretary Rebulia says, there are reforms that are being put in place, right?
38:48.4
Most likely there are.
38:49.8
The intention for reforms is there and the effort for reforms is there.
38:54.6
But is the problem more cultural than we think?
39:00.6
Well, you know, we don't deny that the DOJ, for instance, have instituted reforms.
39:06.5
I mean, they've been working, for instance, with the UN joint program, the United Nations, to institute some of these reforms in, you know, detention, investigation, and all of that.
39:16.1
And these are all well and good.
39:17.2
That's why we supported the UNJP for as long as we have.
39:21.1
The problem is that many of...
39:24.6
What we're seeing here are the result of a really broken down criminal justice system and judicial system in the Philippines.
39:33.1
This is not just one problem.
39:35.4
This is not just the police being abusive.
39:37.7
This is a combination of a lot of things.
39:39.5
This is also, we have a very, very draconian and very, very punitive drug law in the Philippines that jails even the smallest offender.
39:52.6
At wala tayong tinatawag na yung harm reduction.
39:54.8
It's a rejection policy or program ng gobyerno.
39:57.7
And then we have a court system that's so heavily clogged with cases, with not enough judges, not enough courts.
40:05.9
So may bottleneck sa court system natin sa criminal justice system.
40:09.9
But then that's harder to solve, right?
40:15.0
Which is why we like what the DOJ is doing in terms of incrementally trying to resolve that.
40:21.2
Because these things will not be solved in a matter of months.
40:24.6
Not even years. This will probably take a generation to do.
40:28.2
But again, the problem is that Mr. Marcos inherited a drug war that creates so much havoc.
40:37.4
And the response na ginagawa nila ngayon are not enough to address this issue.
40:42.8
So we're talking about accountability. We're talking about closure. We're talking about justice.
40:47.6
So hindi pwedeng sabihin na lang na okay na tayo, okay na kami sa human rights, and then that's that.
40:52.6
No, it has to do more.
40:54.6
The problem with the drug war that was instituted, I think, is, just to reiterate,
41:01.3
it wasn't successful in putting behind bars big drug lords.
41:08.3
Essentially, it was small players, right?
41:11.3
Small players in the drug trade that were victimized.
41:16.2
Users, small pushers, yun yung background.
41:19.4
Well, in fact, that's the reason why we call it the drug war of Mr. Duterte.
41:24.6
A bogus drug war.
41:25.7
Because it was going after really small-time users and peddlers.
41:30.7
And every now and then, may mga raids sa mga malalaki.
41:34.2
But then, you know, much of the violence was targeted against small, young, poor Filipinos.
41:43.4
Now, which brings me actually to what this one-point-something billion drug haul of the Marcos administration had.
41:51.5
I mean, we applaud that.
41:53.7
And we agree with that.
41:54.6
The president, which he said, that, look, it can be done without shedding bloodshed.
41:58.6
Without shedding blood.
41:59.7
And that can be done.
42:01.1
That's what we've been saying.
42:02.5
The problem is that, you know, it's not something that's consistent.
42:09.9
You know, the government needs to go after the drug trade, obviously.
42:13.6
But it needs to have more institutional reforms.
42:16.9
Drug policy reforms.
42:17.9
It needs to amend the drug law in the Philippines.
42:21.7
And we're happy that, I think last week,
42:24.6
the DOJ again and the department of many other departments
42:28.7
launched what they call a drug policy reform initiative summit in June.
42:36.0
And to look into what the drug laws in the countries have created in terms of problems or opportunities.
42:43.1
And that is good.
42:44.1
That's the way to go.
42:45.3
But I think more importantly, Karen,
42:48.4
the drug war needs to veer away from looking at the drug issue as a crime.
42:54.6
And public safety issue.
42:56.5
This is a health issue.
42:59.1
First and foremost.
43:01.1
I think that's worth a whole discussion.
43:04.3
Seeing drugs as a health issue instead of simply a crime issue.
43:09.1
Although, when you are addicted to illegal substances, you're bound to commit crimes.
43:15.5
Well, that's the kind of mindset that the authorities are trying to instill in the public.
43:20.8
And Mr. Duterte actually went to town with that idea.
43:24.6
there's a lot of research going on that says that tries to make a more nuanced view of drug use and crime.
43:32.1
And it's not at all true that people who take drugs are automatically become violent.
43:40.6
No, that's not necessarily true.
43:42.3
Now, that's not saying that the drug problem is not a drug problem.
43:47.2
But again, it has to be addressed in a rights respecting manner.
43:51.3
Just because people use drugs,
43:53.1
they don't necessarily lose their lives.
43:54.6
They don't necessarily lose their human rights.
43:56.3
So, if you were to recommend to President Marcos Jr.
44:01.0
in response to the U.S. State Department report,
44:04.8
what would you say?
44:07.2
rescind former President Duterte's executive orders.
44:10.8
Make it clear, rescind it.
44:13.6
Institute a new policy?
44:16.0
Yes, institute a new policy.
44:18.8
Again, human rights based approach policy.
44:21.6
It includes harm reduction.
44:23.5
Now, the whole idea...
44:24.6
The whole idea of the harm reduction strategy and in a nutshell,
44:27.1
it is that you reduce the harm or drug or substance use on the individual
44:33.4
and on the community by not being punitive.
44:37.3
You know, this entails community-based drug rehabilitation
44:40.5
na talagang voluntary.
44:42.4
Yun nangyayari kasi ngayon coercive.
44:44.4
Because once you coerce people to go into drug treatment,
44:47.2
you're creating more problems than solving them.
44:50.1
So, it has to be a much more, I think, expansive view of the drug problem.
44:54.6
And second, another recommendation to Mr. Marcos really is to really order the police.
45:01.0
Stop the violence.
45:02.9
And also, accountability.
45:04.8
Order the courts.
45:05.8
You know, order the DOJ.
45:08.1
Make sure that the investigations into these past cases are actually moving along.
45:12.2
Okay, I was going to ask you about that.
45:14.5
Should there be a special court,
45:16.8
especially for police officers,
45:19.2
and a specific rule that within the year,
45:24.6
It's decided whether not guilty, guilty.
45:28.4
Timetable, special court.
45:30.5
Well, actually, a lot of groups in the Philippines have been advocating
45:34.0
for the creation of special courts.
45:36.0
Just specifically for the police, right?
45:38.5
But yeah, for the police specifically,
45:40.8
there's a discussion on that.
45:42.7
Because keep in mind, Karen,
45:43.6
meron na naman ang mechanisms within the government
45:46.3
that will hold police misconduct to account.
45:50.2
You know, we have the ombudsman for the military and police personnel.
45:54.6
We have, within the PNP,
45:58.4
we have the Internal Affairs Service.
46:00.0
The problem is that these units of the PNP,
46:03.3
these programs are not functioning as well as they should.
46:07.6
Because, as we saw in the drug war of Mr. Duterte,
46:10.9
they're taking directives directly from the president.
46:13.5
So if you are an AAS,
46:15.0
and with all due respect to the officers there who are doing their job,
46:20.7
kung ang presidente na mismo magsasabi sa iyo,
46:24.6
So, it begins from the top.
46:28.2
So, really, the value here of Mr. Marcos communicating to the police,
46:32.9
you know, na hindi lang to pursue the drug war,
46:36.8
but to pursue it in a way that will not result in violence,
46:41.0
will not disrespect your process.
46:43.4
It's very, very important.
46:45.3
Alright. On that note, I want to thank you so much for joining me today,
46:49.3
Senior Researcher of the Human Rights Watch, Carlos Conde.
46:53.2
Thank you for joining me, sir.
46:55.6
Thank you, Karen.
46:57.2
And that's Get Start Today.
46:58.8
I'm Karen Davila.
47:00.0
You can play back this episode on the ANC YouTube channel.
47:03.7
Stay informed and stay with ANC.
47:24.6
We'll see you next time.
