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Kasi iniinvita pa rin ako ng mga Chinese. Bakit iba yung sinasabi ni Lorenzana, iba yung sinasabi ni Loxin, iba yung sinasabi ni Digong. I mean, hindi ba parang naive yung mga Chinese? Maybe the Chinese were naive or also ignorant about our system.

Well, the Chinese didn't care about our system. They just wanted to get Duterte to agree. Kasi then they will banner it, there's agreement already. Kasi under international law, if the head of state makes a commitment that binds the country, even if the legal process internally have not been followed, because under international law, the head of state is presumed to have the authority to negotiate for the state.

So, ang sa kanila, get Duterte to sign, to agree, okay na tayo. So, that is their strategy. And Duterte, he probably didn't know the consequences of his statement, no?

Well, I mean, this is Duterte we're talking about after all. Sana naman kinuha yung kamay niya, nilagay yung stamp ng ganyan, di ba? Ito ka na nga, nilalagay nilang ganyan para at least may pinggan.

You know, we do not know. Richard, we do not know what the Chinese are holding. Kasi when the Global Times said there is an agreement, biglang bumaliktad si Duterte. Parang takot si Duterte.

O pinitik siya, no? May pinitik siya.

Baka merong video. Baka may video sila. So, bakit bumaliktad bigla siya?

Parang may pagka-Trump, di ba? Biglang pag nandun si Putin, ay, mabait na siya bigla, kinokontrol niya. I mean, honestly, we don't know, right?

At Justice Carpio, I mean, those were crazy times.

We don't know exactly what the Chinese are holding because they are insisting there was such an agreement. And why did Duterte suddenly turn around and said, oo, meron nga?

So, they may have something on him, no? Kaya nga, I used the word kompromate, di ba?

Well, it's possible.

Wow, I mean, Digong being Digong, I don't think it's possible.

It's possible that they can document.

If they can document it, they probably can prove it that there is such a gentleman's agreement.

But Justice Carpio, aren't they endangering their, I had to use the term, aren't they endangering their asset by doing this? I mean, aren't the Chinese compromising Duterte? I mean, if this gets investigated and Duterte gets burned, I know.

They're not yet, they're not coming out yet that he is an asset.

They're hinting so that he will fall in line.

Na, oh, you follow the script that there is such a gentleman's agreement. Oo, kagad siya.

Well, just to be clear, I didn't mean asset in terms of intelligence. I just meant asset in terms of a good friend.

May term ang China, di ba? Our special friend. Old friend of China. I think that's the correct term. Sorry.

I didn't mean it asset in that sense, just to be clear. Baka mamaya mamisunderstood tayo.

You know, if you look at it,

it's very strange because he was definite that there was no agreement.

Eh, sinabi pa ni Panelo, sinungaling yan. Publicity seeking yan.

Eh, biglang bumaliktad. I mean, that in itself is very suspicious, no? Bakit ganyan?

So, tama si Harry Roque. Tama yung sinabi natin, mas maniwala tayo kay Harry Roque kaysa kay Panelo.

I mean, push comes to shove between Panelo and Harry Roque.

Harry Roque. I mean, at least on this one, he was proven.

Yeah. I think push comes to shove between Harry Roque and Panelo.

Mukhang Harry Roque was the more reliable source after all.

Eh, si Harry Roque, it appears tama si Harry. Although, when Panelo denied it, talagang bilib na bilib siya na wala kasi sabi niya sinungaling.

So, Justice Gary, going back to President Marcos Jr.

Did the President go far enough in terms of calling for investigation in your mind?

And do you think it's just a matter of time na may order na for Congress to move ahead with investigation?

What is your understanding of this?

Well, there are...

Well, Senator Riza Antiberas filed a resolution calling for an investigation.

And in the lower house, there's another resolution filed, I think, by the...

By the Bayan Muna Bloc.

So, this is progressive people. So, none of them are allied to the President.

Why not yung mga allies of the President? A lot of them have their own acts to grant.

Ang daming galit kayo di ko sa Congress lang, diba?

Ito na yung chance nila. Ba't di sila makara ng SMNI-style hearing?

Well, they can support it. They will support that.

Kawawa naman yung mga leftist.

Kawawa naman yung mga leftist.

Kawawa naman yung mga leftist.

Gano'n naman sila pang cannon fodder. Alam naman style ng mga trapo talaga.

Alam naman natin ang nangyari dito.

I'm not talking about Riza, obviously, because this is Senate. Ibang usapan.

But sa lower house, minsan gano'n ang ginagawa. Ginagawa ang cannon fodder yung mga...

Well, they're using each other, as usual.

Well, makapangusapan yun. Justice, baka maano tayo dyan? Marali tayo sa labas ng bahay natin.

Now...

Yes, yes, Justice. You were saying?

They are actually using each other. That's the bottom line.

Alliance of convenience. What's so surprising?

Justice, going back to President Marcos Jr., I want to ask you this.

Do you think President Marcos Jr. is being more marupok or Machiavellian?

In a sense that, is he too much of a fox and not enough of a lion?

Or is that we're not appreciating his calculus?

Kasi, he still talks about...

Saara Duterte in good terms, eh.

When he was asked about, bakit no comment si Saara, todo defense siya kay Saara Duterte.

Kaya may mga comments, ano ba itong marupok?

Oh, but there's something new, ha? Have you seen the video?

No, no, no. Please, please go ahead. Did I lose something on this?

Have you seen the video?

There was a video. I sent you a video in Malacanang where the President arrived and there was a reception in Malacanang.

Saara Duterte was there.

The protocol is the President should greet first the Vice President.

But the President did not greet Saara.

He greeted others and Saara was standing there and so Saara just left together with her retinue.

Oh, yeah, yeah. I shared that one. Yeah, I shared that. Naka 1 million views na tayo. I think that's my most viewed video.

Yeah, yeah. I saw that. Actually, there's a debate on that. Can you tell us what exactly happened?

That's the latest. I mean...

Yeah, that's the latest and I think that says a lot, ha?

That says a lot of the relationship between the President because to greet is very normal.

I mean, that's part of courtesy and if you want to be civilized about relationships.

But talagang, ano eh, he was snubbed. She was snubbed by the President.

So, umalis siya.

In-snub niya rin si President eh.

Yeah, I saw that. I think Finance Minister yung kausap niya nung bumaba siya.

Nagtinginan sila then look away and then nag-usap sila ni Ralph Recto yata yung nasa arap eh, yung matanggad na guy.

I think that was Ralph Recto. But this was pre-departure, di ba?

So, but when Marcos returned...

I just remember before that, the day before that, di ba, si President Duterte, former President, had a press conference and said that the...

BBM did not finish college hanggang second year lang.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Oo, ayan na naman si Dugong eh. But yun nga eh, that's my thing.

So, I think napuno na rin.

Pero hindi ba parang masyadong mabait pa rin si BBM?

Hindi ka masyadong mabait pa rin si BBM?

Personal relationship is no longer there kung ganyan. Poison na yan eh.

Oo. Poison eh.

BBM mabait pa rin kasi hindi na nung siya.

He was asked that. Sabi niya, well, even if he calls me ugly, I will not respond because, you know, sabi niya, as a lawyer, President Duterte should know that ad hominem attacks do not count.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

He explained it that way. So, sabi niya, I'm not bothered by that. But of course, that's what you say publicly. Pero inside, you know, you have time to grieve.

Inside, you know, become reluctant to be friendly. Hindi na katulad nun na beso-beso. Ngayon, wala na.

Wala na, oo.

Do you think that the natural thing for Marcos is to go after Duterte or he should just play it slowly and steady?

Is slow and steady the best way forward? Kasi he can pin down the Dutertes both on this issue of China but also on the issue of ICC.

It's probably, well, it will be a slow burn kasi matagal pa naman yung 2028. And I think the pressing issue is what will Sara do now?

Kasi I think the relationship now is strained to say the least, no? Kasi member of the cabinet siya, no? And she is the alter ego.

How can she be, how can she continue?

Continue to be the alter ego kung ganyan ang yung body language nila, ha? Ganyan na, no?

Mahirap yan because I've been there in Malacanang and if the president doesn't greet you, iba yun, ha?

I know, I know. Kaya nga one million view yung nakita ko. I mean, although marami na galit sa akin, I didn't show down the full charot kasi nung lumabas si Marcos, andun si VP.

May mga ganyan silang kacharotan. But anyway, Justice Cabrera, is it relevant?

It's relevant that Sara is not saying anything on the West Philippine Sea issue. I mean, this is an official who has time to make videos about what she's eating, about, I don't know, her Louis Vuitton kitchenware. I don't know. This is the person who makes comments on Afghan refugees coming to the Philippines.

This is someone who has a comment on Gaza and CISFAR. Pero pagdating sa West Philippine Sea, wala. Zero. I mean, wala siyang comment. I mean, what does this say? And then, basta Duterte coming out and saying something along the lines of, at least from what I saw, something like,

narative lang yan, propaganda lang yan. And then, Polong coming out and saying, don't demonize China. I mean, what's going on here? I mean, are the Dutertes coming out all in guns blazing, essentially saying, you know, for the, you know, what's going on here?

Well, they, I don't know, the Duterte family is still continuing the policy of the father, the patriarch. So they don't want to say anything against China.

Alam mo, you don't want to say anything against your master, diba? So they don't want to say anything against China. Kahit na ano nang ginagawa ng China, quiet lang sila. Binobomba na tayo, wina-water cannon na tayo. They refuse to talk. And then they pin the blame on the Philippines.

So, well, they have taken that position already. And, tsaka, did you read the, did you see the statement, the speech of Sebastian, Sebastian, that,

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly.

The president should, should remember what happened to the Romanovs and the Sheskos. Did you see that?

Yeah, pinag-usapan namin ni Ronald Llamas yun, yung Romanov. He lost me at Romanov. Pero to be honest, mas magandang Romanov kaya sa Ivan the Terrible. So, anyway, I mean, this is crazy stuff we're talking about, Justice Carpio.

But Justice, now let's talk about the trilaterals.

Trilateral summit. Sorry for the, for the connection. It's a little bit cutting. Let's talk about the trilateral summit. Kasi masestress lang tayo sa mga Duterte. Babalikan natin sila mamaya when we talk about Kiboloy.

But let's talk about the trilateral summit, Justice Carpio. What is your read of the trilateral summit over last week in terms of the outcomes?

The U.S. Congress is pushing for a $2.5 billion defense aid. There's going to be a Luzon economic corridor.

Biden publicly said that the mutual defense treaty will apply. What is your read of the trilateral summit, Justice Carpio?

Well, first, on the economic front, remember, China said that they will provide the Philippines $22 billion in loans and investments. Nothing happened. Less than 5% materialized.

Now, Japan and the U.S. are saying we will provide $100 billion, five times.

And I think Japan will...

They will deliver because Japan is our biggest aid donor and they can deliver. And the U.S. will not want to be

to be locked together with China, pledging so much and actually not delivering. And then it's easy for them to deliver this promise because the U.S. semiconductor companies are leaving China.

So they can just tell them to locate in the Philippines.

I mean, they're in the process of relocating. So the State Department could just encourage them to relocate in the Philippines.

So it's very easy for them to meet that figure, that $100 billion figure over five years.

So this is something big because it generates a lot of employment.

These very labor-intensive production lines.

So it's a good thing.

And I think we expect we will get, aside from that $100 billion, there's a bipartisan bill to provide $2.5 billion in military assistance.

And that's also a big amount.

And I think that is not part of the aid package to Ukraine and Israel.

That is now...

That's a separate bill.

So I think this will go...

It's a bipartisan bill.

So it will go quickly and it will be passed quickly.

Interesting.

I mean, Justice Carpenter, I think this is where we slightly diverge back in the day because I think everyone was worried about debt trap.

I said, don't worry about debt trap.

Worry about pledge trap, like empty pledges and nothing comes in.

So I turned out as more correct and pessimistic, right?

Because I said, debt trap.

That means may investment.

Ito wala talaga.

Na-Duterte tayo nung panon ni Digong.

But Justice Carpenter, speaking of this defense aid, what do you think we should focus on in terms of this defense aid?

Kasi the economic corridor makes sense to me.

Semiconductors, critical infrastructure development, port facilities, green technology and climate resilience.

So everything is there.

It ticks all the boxes.

So let's just hope things will trickle in over the next coming months and years.

But this is a defense aid.

Do you think it's important that U.S. finally we get the multi-role vessels, the F-15X or F-15, some of the more modern warships?

Because I'll be honest, Justice, maybe you don't agree with me, but my frustration is I look around the world.

I don't know.

Israel has got, what, hundreds of billions of aid from U.S. throughout the decades.

Egypt got close to, what, $100 billion aid throughout the decades.

Pakistan, Jordan.

I mean, I can go on and on about countries that are not even U.S. allies.

Not even in war like Ukraine.

And yet, it looks like they have got more solid defense aid from the U.S.

I mean, Jordanian Air Force, Pakistani Air Force.

They have, I think, F-16 fighters.

Yes, we can blame the Philippines.

Marami tayong kakulangan.

But my sense is we were also taken for granted for quite some time.

And perhaps now it's time for a catch-up.

I mean, what is your read on this, Justice Garpia?

I mean, I don't mind if you don't agree with my read.

But this is my read on this issue.

The measure taken for granted by before.

Well, the facts are there.

They got more.

They got more military aid than us.

And I think the reason for that is that these were the flash points.

These were the burning issues in Afghanistan.

So they had to appease Pakistan and Egypt.

They had to compete with Russia in providing military aid to Egypt

to moderate Egypt's behavior against Israel.

And of course, Israel is another completely different thing.

So they did not see any urgent need to provide us with military aid until now.

I think now they realize that they have to stand up to China already.

And that's why they decided to give focus to the Philippines.

And I think that's why they're already giving us more aid.

I don't know.

Because it was...

This is now the flashpoint.

The new flashpoint in world geopolitics.

And I think that's why we're getting this attention already.

Because there's really trouble now in the South China Sea.

So your argument is because America's threat perceptions are shifting towards China and Asia

and not to mention the real threat of military confrontation in the South China Sea and West Philippine Sea,

it's just natural for the U.S. to pay more attention to us.

But are there specific things you think that we should see as part of this foreign military financing?

I think $500 million annually is a target of this new package.

What do you want to see in that $500 million?

Aside from M16 guns and all of that, we really need something more advanced, right?

Missile systems, multi-role fighters, foreign warships.

Well, I would like to see...

HIMARS.

Because the HIMARS that can reach the Chinese artificial islands in the Spratlys.

Because right now, those artificial islands hold us hostage.

They can destroy our air bases in Palawan because our air bases are fixed.

But we have no capacity to destroy them without the HIMARS.

Well, probably when we get the...

BrahMos missiles, we can.

But with the HIMARS, very accurate, it will really hit within a few meters.

So that will really destroy the runway in the Mischief Reef.

So we should get the HIMARS.

And they gave HIMARS to Malaysia.

They sold HIMARS to Malaysia.

There's a reason why we couldn't get HIMARS.

That's a very good point.

What we need are...

Missiles that hit the Chinese in their islands in the Spratlys.

Because if we have those missiles, we now control the Chinese.

Right now, they control us because they can destroy us anytime.

And we have no defense.

We cannot fight back.

But if we can destroy them anytime and the HIMARS are mobile,

they cannot destroy the HIMARS, then we control them.

That's a very good point.

And I think the HIMARS will also be included in the comprehensive archipelagic defense strategy that we adopted.

It looks like they match properly on that front.

Justice Caprio, what about Japan?

What do you want to see in terms of Japan?

Do you think a VFA with Japan will be a step too far?

Assuming internally, the Japanese will be even in position to pull that off because of the past.

The pacifist party, Komeito, within the LDP coalition.

I mean, let's just assume internally they don't have a problem.

Do you think rotational access for Japanese self-defense forces is reasonable or perhaps a breach too far?

Well, I think the Japanese public will accept that already.

It's something that's being discussed.

And I think the Japanese government thinks that...

There will be no strong opposition from the Japanese public considering what's happening now.

So, I think we will have a visa enforcers agreement.

It can be named differently.

Right now, we have with Australia, we should have one with Japan and then with UK and France.

I think eventually we will have something like that with them.

Fantastic five.

A fantastic five situation.

The French, the British, the Japanese, Australian, the Americans.

Obviously, we will have leftist friends again.

They will say, here we go again.

Say, Darian at Carpe, we sold our house to the affluent Afam.

We're just angry with China.

But France, UK, Australia, you cannot accuse them of territorial ambition

or they have any territorial designs on the Philippines

or maritime business.

There's only one country that wants our territory and maritime zones.

That's China.

But of course, they will say, China is doing it because they are being bullied by the American Empire.

They are surrounded by American bases.

That's how it is, right?

You know, that's what the Chinese tell me.

But all these Europeans, we suffered at their hands for a century,

the century of humiliation.

That's why we are exacting our events.

And I said, why are you exacting your events on us?

We never occupy the square inch of your territory.

When the alliance of Europeans and the Japanese and Russians occupied Beijing,

in that boxer,

rebellion,

we were fighting the Americans.

We were under Western colonizers for more than 300 years.

We were as oppressed, more oppressed than you.

So why do you take your events on us?

We had nothing.

We never, we never occupied the single square inch of your territory.

So the narrative that because they suffered at the hands of the Europeans,

they should get the South China Sea.

It doesn't.

It doesn't compute.

They should get the Atlantic Ocean.

I mean, the Russians do the same, right?

Because they were attacked by Hitler in World War Two, or I don't know,

Frederick the Great or the Swedes, now they have to colonize Ukraine again.

I mean, that kind of nonsense, revanchist arguments.

But I mean, you can say, I mean, the Mongolians probably have more to say.

Because they were attacked by the Soviet Union, they have to reclaim their,

I mean, you can go down this road of this ridiculous.

I always say, if you had hundred years of humiliation,

you had five hundred years of humiliation, right?

Including the humiliation you're visiting on us nowadays.

Mukhang napiko ng mga Chinese when we use the term bully, no?

Napansin mo?

Like immediately they keep on saying, we're not a bully, we're not.

I think they're very scared of being shown as an imperialist power in their own right.

Yeah, but they are.

I mean, they're seeking hegemony in the South China Sea.

They're the only one that's still expanding.

They're the only one that's still expanding their territory.

Along with Russia.

There are only two countries now that are expanding their territory,

annexing the territory of other countries, Russia and China.

Baka may gentleman's agreement din yung dalawa na yan.

You never know, baka Putin and Xi as a gentleman agreement.

But going back.

I think, you know what?

I think they have to get the territories of other countries

because if they can't get the territories of their other countries,

they will get their own.

Each other's territories.

Yeah, Siberia is a big problem.

They will fight over Siberia.

Yeah, you're right.

Actually, ba nung nag-release ng 10-line ang China,

isa sa mga bansa na napikon na hindi natin minention is Russia.

Because dun sa 10-line,

sama yung Russian territory in the North.

They're changing the names of Vladivostok into Chinese names.

I mean, this is crazy, no?

This is crazy.

Of course, I find it ironic because China,

today's China,

claims to be a Han nation.

And yet, they're claiming what was conquered by the Manchus, right?

Which are not considered as Han.

But that's a long conversation.

Now, going back to this,

what do you think we should look at getting from the other important partners?

Sorry, acquiring.

I don't want to use the word getting.

Baka mendikan tang labas.

Like Japan, for instance.

What do you think Japan can offer?

I mean, the French are offering submarines.

The British, obviously.

The Japanese have always been giving us the...

or donating...

or selling us through loans,

postcard vessels.

Because before, they were not allowed to sell warships.

But they've started to sell already radars to us or give us radars.

So, I think we can get the postcard vessels and radar telecommunications from Japan.

And do you think looking at even getting

advanced fighter jets from Japan or those kinds of things?

Because I think they just approved recently

export of next-generation fighters in Japan.

So, do you think those should be also some of our targets down the road?

Na hindi lang tayo masasabi?

Well, they're...

Actually, they're developing a sixth generation now

together with UK and Italy.

Well, they will retire their F-2s,

their copy of the F-16.

So, maybe they will give us some of those.

So, there's so much here to look at.

Now, Justice Carpenter, moving forward,

what do you think we should see Ayung Insol in particular?

Because this looks like quite a dangerous flashpoint

with huge, huge implications.

I mean, we just saw over the weekend,

there could almost be a huge war in the Middle East.

First of all, are you worried that the U.S. may be overstretched?

With conflicts in the Middle East, conflicts in Ukraine?

I mean, the Middle East situation is quite worrying

as what we saw just over the weekend.

Or do you think you're confident enough

that the United States could still be a reliable partner

in this part of the world?

But also, what should we do?

I mean, should we ask Americans to join us in resupply missions?

Should Americans directly contribute?

Or should they just be over the horizon with drones?

Should they provide some engineering technology to us

so that we can fortify it better on our own?

What are we looking at here, Justice Carpenter?

Next steps?

In Ayungin Shoal?

In Ayungin Shoal,

we should convert our presence there from military to non-military

because the tribunal said

we cannot assume jurisdiction over your petition

that we order China to stop their dangerous maneuvers

because these are military activities

and that's outside the jurisdiction.

So, we should convert our presence to non-military.

We put up a lighthouse operated by...

the Coast Guard, that's civilian.

We put up a research center by the UP Institute of Marine Sciences

and we put up there a substation of Coast Guard.

They can park their two small vessels

so any armed attack on these two Coast Guard vessels

would trigger the operation of the MDT, Middle Defense City.

Of course, China will stop us from sending the construction materials

but then we can go to the tribunal now

and this time we will say this is now a civilian,

non-military activity

because we are putting up this Marine Research Center,

this lighthouse

and we can win another award

and the more awards we win,

the more support we will get from the rest of the world.

But, of course, right now our Navy is confident

that even if it's difficult,

we can still supply Sierra Madre,

continue the supply

and even if we are a water cannon,

the world's...

the sympathy of the world will be with us

if we have those video footage.

So, actually China is losing here the PR war.

So, I don't know what kind of steps the Navy will do.

Maybe they will send a more hardened supply ship

that can withstand these water cannons.

But I think eventually we have to shift to a non-military presence

because no matter what we say,

even if we keep on...

even if we keep on repairing Sierra Madre,

it will collapse one day

because you can repair it only up to a certain extent.

So, lighthouse or something like that

is the way forward?

Yeah.

A lighthouse

so that it will become a civilian activity.

Do we have the technology for that?

Engineering technology to make a Laotos over...

This is not even a rock.

I mean, this is a low tide elevation.

So, should we do a reclamation there?

Wouldn't that be...

No.

If we install a lighthouse during the time of President FDR,

there was a plan to put up lighthouses in all of these places

and these are modular, solar powered.

But then the foreign secretary at the time opposed it

because he said China will be angry.

And that foreign secretary was planning to run as Secretary General of the UN.

And of course...

Right.

I just have a slight issue with your proposal.

I completely see where you're coming from, Justice.

But isn't...

The thing I say is

the US is very clear that they will come to our rescue

if our troops, aircrafts, and vessels are attacked.

So, clearly, this is our military.

So, if you remove our military from your inshore,

wouldn't that limit America's MDT commitments

or allow them to have more equivocation?

No.

Because the US says,

that any armed attack on a Philippine public vessel,

and they put this, including the Coast Guard.

So, public vessel, not necessarily military.

That's why I said, let us put the Coast Guard substation there.

Good point. Sorry, sorry.

I didn't hear the Coast Guard part.

Yes, yes.

Yes, Coast Guard, yes.

Let us put the Coast Guard vessel there, park it,

and that will be...

They'll have to attack that Coast Guard vessel.

And in terms of resupply, the supply part,

do you think the Americans should be over the horizon?

With some drones and corvettes, something like that?

I think we have to consider that

if we really cannot resupply our troops.

As long as we can resupply our troops,

even if we are water cannons, we should continue.

Because we're actually getting the sympathy of the world there.

Yeah. So, in short, the...