Question: Hi everyone, I am currently trying to write a course f

@DrewWilson Here's what I would think (if Maria and Joe are not blood relatives):
1. Maria gave Joe a car. = Nagbigay si Maria ng sasakyan kay Joe. (actor-focus)
- Maria bought a car just for Joe (good grounds for tsismis/controversy)
2. Maria gave Joe the car. = Ibinigay ni Maria ang sasakyan kay Joe. (object-focus)
- Maria, the current/previous owner of a car, gave it to Joe for a reason (neutral but can still arouse tsismis for some)
3. Maria gave Joe a car. = Binigyan ni Maria ng sasakyan si Joe. (directional-focus)
- Same with 1

@DenC Okay, so, you see different contextual nuances depending on which verb affix is used. Is that correct? Could you explain a little further, please?

@DrewWilson Yes, the nuances differ although these don't mean that it's the correct meaning.
In 2, "ang sasakyan" makes me think that it is a particular, already known car so I don't think it is newly bought. Although the "ang" marker is what changed the nuance, it goes in pair with the form of "ibinigay" because saying otherwise is incorrect (e.g. nagbigay si Maria ang sasakyan) or in a different context/doesn't make sense (binigyan ni Maria ang sasakyan).
1 actually focuses on Maria giving a car because saying "Nagbigay si Maria ng sasakyan" alone can be a topic. But the whole example makes me focus on the action that Maria gave something to Joe since no emphasis (e.g. "ang" marker) is on the car. But we all know that cars are expensive so the "focus" of the topic when talking about it will be shared by the action and the cost of the car and why. The same goes for 3 although the actual focus is to whom Maria gave the car because you can't say "Binigyan ni Maria ng sasakyan" and end it there.

@DenC This may be a tough question to answer, or just one that doesn't really have an answer, but I will ask anyway. If you were to reconstruct similar sentences in an everyday setting, what do you think about when going to speak?From what I am understanding based on what you are saying, is it boils down to what you want to specifically talk about, i.e. the one who gave the thing (the actor), the person or thing that is the receiver of whatever the verb is (the object), or the direction, etc. And based on some nuances and context, you may choose one over the other for say, tsismis or just informing someone about something. Is that accurate, o di?

@DrewWilson While most use the term "focus", some subscribe to calling it the Point of Departure ( learningtagalog.com/ articles/tagalog_foc us.html ). Have you heard of POD? The link I sent even says that the first reason why they don't use the term "focus" is because it isn't necessarily what is emphasized in the sentence.Btw, I'm curious. (I ask this kindly!) Why are you trying to write a Tagalog course when you're still an intermediate student?

@NovaChromatic I have read the article by them before, but the term point of departure makes it a bit more confusing. I am thinking that maybe a term is not even necessary. For example, I think it may be simplest to just teach it by saying there is a relationship between the verb affix and the ang phrase and to not worry over “focuses” or "Point of Departures" or any other terminology. Then it usage, depending on what you want to talk about, you pick the right verb affix, whether it is just about the person doing something or what the object, or the direction, etc. I understand it sounds strange, or even arrogant, for someone to teach a language they are not fluent in. I am trying to write a course for Language Transfer. Not sure if you have heard of that language platform before, but basically it is about studying the entire language, breaking it down to make sense, and then teaching it in a way where it gives the student everything they need to study, analyze, and learn the language on their own. I do personally want to be fluent in Tagalog, so that is also a part of the goal.

@DrewWilson Not a native speaker...but...>> """I think it may be simplest to just teach it by saying there is a relationship between the verb affix and the ang phrase and to not worry over “focuses” or "Point of Departures" or any other terminology."""I think creating a course where you don't have a name for the thing ("focus") would be tricky....how would you say "This verb x has the same thingamajig properties as verb y"...versus, "This verb x has the same focus as verb y". "Focus" doesn't really mean literally the same thing as "I need to focus on my homework".
Like you said, if you just tell students that "focus" refers to "the relationship between the verb affix and the ang phrase"...that's probably good enough for a start.Also, since most people refer to it as "focus," it might do a disservice to students to call it something else (point of departure is an alternative, lesser used term, but I think it's more confusing...) since it will make students confused when they encounter the term "focus" somewhere else?You'll also need to make clear that sometimes one focus is more appropriate in a situation than others...for example, if someone asks, "Who did you give the ball to?", a focus on the receiver "si Tom" would be better than a different focus.I'm a little skeptical, though...if these things are not already clear, it might be super early for you to be creating a course on Tagalog...I've seen a fair share of Tagalog guides written by Beginners or early Intermediate students that probably end up steering students in a bad direction over the long term. You might consider finding a Tagalog language teacher who can partner with you to make sure you're getting everything right? I know that as a beginner, learning something wrong and then having to "unlearn" it is a real pain in the rear.

@jkos I know EXACTLY what you mean. See, I'm a native Filipino who's been living in Manila all my life, yet my Tagalog was so bad for the longest time because, for some reason or another, I grew up using almost exclusively English. Of course, I had to use Tagalog from time to time, but the consequence of that was that I had learned so much incorrect vocabulary and practiced so many wrong constructs. To give you an example, we had to write a short essay in our Filipino class one time, and I knew I wanted to use either the word "atin" or "amin", but I had no idea that they even had a difference in meaning (because there's only one "we" in English). So you know what I did? I just alternated my use of them; if I used "atin" in the previous sentence, I would use "amin" in the next 🤦When I started seriously learning Tagalog, it was so painful having to unlearn my bad habits. When I became aware that "tayo" and "kami" were different three years ago, I kept having to correct myself because, by default, I would always "tayo" when I really meant "kami".

@jkos The thing is, I don't need a term to teach the concept. I just say with an affix like -um-, it tells the ang phrase to go where ever the doer of the verb is. And when using this affix, the object (or receiver) of the verb is preceded by the marker ng, and it is typically indefinite. I am working with native speakers.

@DrewWilson I'm not sure for others but I think that aside from what one intends to say, it also depends on that person specifically. I believe factors such as developed habits from how you often hear or construct sentences are part of it. Based on my recent observations, people don't pay much attention to grammar or they aren't too aware of it (may be due to differences of origin or mother tongue). I came to realize these because I'm the type who notices these things frequently. I tried to correct them before but eventually, I just let them be (partly because I don't want to be judged or hated).