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When -Mag and -Um (with same root) yield different meanings:

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Author Photo by: TeacherJim Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Oct 12 2020, 11:43pm CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
When -Mag When -Mag and -Um (with same root) yield different meanings:
 
1. ahit 'shave'
mag-ahit (to shave oneself)
umahit (to shave someone)
 
2. akyat 'ascent'
mag-akyat (to bring up something)
umakyat (to go up)
 
3. bili 'purchasing'
magbili* (to sell something)
bumili (to buy something)
 
4. bati 'greeting'
magbati(an) (to great each other)
bumati (to greet someone)
 
5. salo 'eating together'
magsalo-salo (to eat together)
sumalo (to join someone in eating)
 
6. basa 'reading'
magbasa (to read, study a lot/aloud)
bumasa (to read something)
 
7. labas 'outside'
maglabas (to bring something out)
lumabas (to come/go out)
 
8. tawa 'laughter'
magtawa (to laugh out loud)
tumawa (to laugh)
 
9. pula 'red'
magpula (to wear red)
pumula (to turn red/blush)
 
10. puti 'white'
magputi (to wear white)
pumuti (to turn fair/white)
 
*'
magbili' is already out of use and has been replaced by 'magtinda' (to sell something), to which there is no corresponding -um form.
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Author Photo AMBoy Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP Supporter
Oct 13 2020, 12:07am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
This is good, thanks. Can we get example sentences for each?
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
Oct 13 2020, 12:18am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
@TeacherJim
 
bili 'purchasing'
magbili (to sell something)
bumili (to buy something)
 
sigurado ka ba sabi daw tama pero iba daw mali
 
Love that example...where um and mag might make a clear difference...
 
bumili...CHECK...even if pabili is more common.
 
but based on my experience in the markets...magbili is CHARGE more than half the time
 
magbenta is much more common...minsan some one will offer "magbili = to sell"
 
For sure there are online sources and even some popular texts that indicate "magbili = sell"
 
But hundreds of Starbux dicsussions leave me with the conclussion that most natives won't offer that use.
 
Now I would Lub lub lub...to have the definitive Tagalog source light the way. :D
 
So what's your answer and reason...or do we just flip a coin around here. Char lang!
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
Oct 13 2020, 12:44am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
Duh...bobo ko...I always forget to do a quick check of JKOS great dictionary here...
 
bumilí: [verb] to buy • to purchase
 
But no mention of mag bili
 
Pero iba muna
 
www2.hawaii.edu/~ben der/tagalog.pdf magbili = sell
 
Universiy of Hawaii! Boom boom Panes!
 
Do you feel 3 page post coming? :D
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
Oct 13 2020, 12:56am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
Then from Ithaca...where I left debt of $100,000 when it was much harder...
 
John Wolff writes a popular text with some strong fans here...
 
Pilipino through Self-Instruction - Part One
 
Page 144
 
"bumili buy means something different than magbili sell"
 
University of Cornell! Boom Boom Panes!
 
Maybe Tagalog was a better idea in Ithaca than Japanese?
 
Ang tanong pero walang sagot!
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
Oct 13 2020, 1:19am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
Why oh why am I traipsing around Honolulu and Ithaca...
 
Straight to the bible ng Tagalog
 
Green or Red book...nakalimutin ako....
 
Tagalog to English....GREEN!
 
Father Leo James English (English...make me confusing (sic))
 
page 201
 
magbili to sell
 
Tapussssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss na! Talagaaaaang talagaaaaaaaaah!
 
And yet I have dozens and dozens of natives from Wet and Dry Poblacion to Starbux sa Ateneo de Rockwell...swear to gud...di pwede.
 
So what is your answer....and why...
 
That's the fun of the UM vs MAG challenge
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
Oct 13 2020, 1:34am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
@TeacherJim
 
Handy list...thanks for accumulating...beyond bili...the rest strike me as nuance as to manner between um and mag...which is very hard to resolve.
 
Though I would be happy to be wrong - saya saya!
 
Can you share with us where you traced these definitions as they strike me as a bit inconsistent -- though that is common.
 
I appreciate any insights. I have spent a year down this rabbit hole. Maraming Salamat!
 
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Author Photo BoraMac Badge: Supporter
Oct 13 2020, 3:05am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
@TeacherJim ...for example
 
salo 'eating together'
magsalo-salo (to eat together)
sumalo (to join someone in eating)
 
compared to JKOS dictionary here...
 
magsalo: [verb] to share • to share in eating
sumalo: [verb] to join another • to join another in eating
 
root focus....share vs join....then the extended example....share food vs join in eating
 
JKOS doesn't leave us with any example sentences here....HMPT!
 
Father English...p 1165
 
magsalo...to eat together
sumalo...to eat something with another
 
I can squint and try to see a difference...I can gap fill with more context....but in the wink of an eye it takes to deliver a sentence...average speaker can deliver / decipher all this nuance?
 
Ngek!
 
Ateneo B School and Law School BRIGHTEST were all over the board on these examples.
 
This the fun of the UM vs MAG Challenge!
 
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Author Photo TeacherJim Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Oct 13 2020, 6:56am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
@BoraMac i have updated my post stating that 'magbili' (to sell something) is already out of use and is replaced with 'magtinda' or magbenta (to sell something) to which -um form is not applicable.
 
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Author Photo TeacherJim Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Oct 13 2020, 7:01am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
@BoraMac when in doubt or confused, I always have Fr. Leo English's dictionary (Tagalog-English) too for reference.
 
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Author Photo TeacherJim Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Oct 13 2020, 7:31am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
@AMBoy
 
Example:
 
1. ahit 'shave'
mag-ahit (to shave oneself)
umahit (to shave someone)
 
a. Ang haba na ng bigote mo. Mag-ahit ka naman!
(Your moustache is already long. Go shave (yourself)!
 
b. Ikaw ba ang umahit sa kapatid mo?
(Were you the one who shaved your brother?)
 
2. akyat 'ascent'
mag-akyat (to bring up something)
umakyat (to go up)
 
Your on the second floor calling Shiela on the ground floor...
a. Ate Shiela, gutom na kami. Mag-akyat po kayo ng pagkain.
(Shiela, we're already hungry. Please bring some food up)
 
b. Pwede ka bang umakyat sa silid ko mamaya?
(Can you go up to my room later?)
 
3. bili 'purchasing'
magbili* (to sell something)
bumili (to buy something)
 
a. Gusto kong magtinda/magbenta ng prutas.
(I want to sell fruits)
 
b. Ayokong bumili niyan.
(I don't want to buy that.)
 
4. bati 'greeting'
magbati(an) (to great each other)
bumati (to greet someone)
 
a. Pag nagkita tayong muli, magbatian tayo.
(If we see each other again, let's greet one another)
 
b. Huwag mong kalimutang bumati sa kaarawan ko.
(Don't forget to greet me on my birthday)
 
5. salo 'eating together'
magsalo-salo (to eat together)
sumalo (to join someone in eating)
 
a. Magsalo-salo naman tayo sa katapusan ng taon.
(Let's eat together at the end of the year)
 
b. Pwede bang sumalo sa inyo?
(Can I join you guys in eating?)
 
6. basa 'reading'
magbasa (to read, study a lot/aloud)
bumasa (to read something)
 
a. Nagbabasa si Jim para sa exam.
(Jim is reading a lot for the exam)
 
b. Bumasa ako ng diyaryo kanina para malaman kung anong nangyayari.
(I read a newspaper earlier to get updated on what's happening)
 
7. labas 'outside'
maglabas (to bring something out)
lumabas (to come/go out)
 
a. Nandito na ang mga bisita. Maglabas ka ng inumin.
(The visitors are here. Bring out the drinks)
 
b. Lumabas muna ako para manigarilyo.
(I went out first for a cigarette)
 
8. tawa 'laughter'
magtawa (to laugh out loud)
tumawa (to laugh)
 
a. Natutulog ang bata. Huwag kayong magtawa!
(The child is sleeping. Don't laugh out loud)
 
b. Sige, tumawa ka para masapak kita.
(Go ahead and laugh so I'd hit you)
 
9. pula 'red'
magpula (to wear red)
pumula (to turn red/blush)
 
a. Huwag mong kalimutang magpula sa date natin.
(Don't forget to wear something red on our date)
 
b. Pumula si Ana nang makita ang crush niya.
(Ana blushed when she saw her crush)
 
10. puti 'white'
magputi (to wear white)
pumuti (to turn fair/white)
 
a. Lahat ng sasali, kailangang magputi.
(For those joining, you need to wear white)
 
b. Dahil sa mga problema, pumuti ang buhok mo.
(Due to the problems, your hair turned grey)
*'
magbili' is already out of use and has been replaced by 'magtinda' (to sell something), to which there is no corresponding -um form.
 
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Author Photo TeacherJim Badge: Native Tagalog Speaker
Oct 13 2020, 7:39am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
Based on my Analysis on the Syntax of -Mag and -Um Affixes, I've observed that -Mag Verbs are Transitive (that it requires an object) while -Um Verbs are Intransitive. Study the following examples:
 
1. pumasok (to go inside)
magpasok (to bring SOMETHING inside)
 
2. bumagsak (to fall/fail)
magbagsak (to overthrow/fail SOMEONE or to crash/slam SOMETHING)
 
3. tumakas (to escape)
magtakas (to elope with SOMEONE)
 
4. lumabas (to come/go outside)
maglabas (to take/bring SOMETHING outside)
 
5. umalis (to leave)
mag-alis (to remove SOMETHING)
 
6. tumayo (to stand up)
magtayo (to erect/build SOMETHING)
 
7. tumiwalag (to leave a group)
magtiwalag (to remove SOMEONE from the group)
 
8. pumanhik (to go up stairs)
magpanhik (to bring SOMETHING up stairs)
 
9. dumaan (to pass by/come over)
magdaan (to bring SOMETHING by)
 
10. lumakad (to be in forward motion)
maglakad (to hand-carry/take care of SOMETHING)
 
11. umayos (to straighten up or to behave)
mag-ayos (to fix SOMETHING)
 
12. sumama (to join in)
magsama (to bring SOMEONE in)
 
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Author Photo AMBoy Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP Supporter
Oct 13 2020, 7:48am CST ~ 1 week, 5 days ago. 
@TeacherJim This was quite helpful thank you very much!
 
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Author Photo laidrecto
Oct 14 2020, 2:11pm CST ~ 1 week, 3 days ago. 
If you also notice, although not in all cases, um- is used to denote past tense, while mag- is to denote future tense
 
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Author Photo Ahkasi
Oct 15 2020, 2:53am CST ~ 1 week, 3 days ago. 
Forum Image
 
I just looked up "bili" on site, now i am really scared of Affixes. There are about 50 ways to conjugate this single root.
 
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