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Question: "ng" and "sa"

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Author Photo by: kasong
Aug 26 2021, 10:14pm CST ~ 3 weeks, 1 day ago. 
Question: "ng" and "sa"
 
In sentence (a) “ng” is used. Can you explain why “sa” is used in sentence (b)?

(a) Pumatay ng lamok ang bata.
 
(b) Ang lihim na iyán ang pápatáy sa inyóng relasyón.
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Author Photo AMBoy Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP Supporter
Aug 26 2021, 10:38pm CST ~ 3 weeks, 1 day ago. 
I'm not really sure there is a hard rule here, I think sometimes they are interchangeable, but in this case inyo is a SA pronoun so it requires sa.
 
Perhaps: Ang lihim na iyán ang pápatáy ng relasyón mo , would also be valid.
 
I will await the feedback of a native speaker!
 
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Author Photo kasong
Aug 27 2021, 4:14am CST ~ 3 weeks, 1 day ago. 
@AMBoy
 
But they also say (1) instead of (2), i.e. they use "kay" instead of "ni".
 
(1) Sino ang pumatáy kay JFK?
(2) Sino ang pumatáy ni JFK?
 
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Author Photo PinoyTaj Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious Supporter
Aug 27 2021, 8:39am CST ~ 3 weeks, 1 day ago. 
@kasong Kay = Sa , you use Kay when Its a name , Kay is for names and sometimes Filipinos will personify nouns.
 
This was explained to you on your previous post .
 
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Author Photo Bituingmaykinang
Aug 27 2021, 10:55am CST ~ 3 weeks, 1 day ago. 
@kasong
 
(2) Sino ang pumatáy ni JFK
 
This is wrong and does not make sense. Ni marks ownership.
 
Kay can also be used to denote ownership but can also denote action done to the object. Ni can't be used in this case
 
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Author Photo PinoyTaj Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious Supporter
Aug 27 2021, 10:59am CST ~ 3 weeks, 1 day ago. 
Ang form Si
Ng form Ni
Sa form Kay
 
Si John
Ni John
Kay John
 
@kasong
 
As a non - native this is how I’ve learned to work it out and make it make sense.
 
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Author Photo AMBoy Badge: SupporterBadge: Serious SupporterBadge: VIP Supporter
Aug 27 2021, 1:31pm CST ~ 3 weeks, 0 days ago. 
Here is the real answer and I learned something. This makes sense.
 
Smart Native:
Ah, the actual reason why "sa" is used here is because of definitiveness. "Relasyon" here, whether it be "inyong relasyon" or "relasyon mo," is specific; there is a specific relationship being discussed here. As such, when an agent-focused verb is used, it prefers to take "sa.". In the first sentence, the "lamok" that the child killed is just any mosquito; it doesn't pertain to any specific mosquito, so it takes "ng."
 
My thoughts, this makes sense:
 
Sino ang pumatáy kay JFK? (JFK is definite)
Sino ang pumatáy ng mga tao? (People is indefinite)
 
And yeah ni is wrong.
 
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Author Photo kasong
Aug 28 2021, 5:27am CST ~ 2 weeks, 7 days ago. 
You mean, the sentence (a) below is possible, if the noun "lamok" is definite??
 
(a) Pumatay sa lamok ang bata.
 
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Author Photo kasong
Aug 28 2021, 5:30am CST ~ 2 weeks, 7 days ago. 
@AMBoy
 
You mean, the sentence (a) below is possible, if the noun "lamok" is definite??
 
(a) Pumatay sa lamok ang bata.
 
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Author Photo Bituingmaykinang
Aug 28 2021, 8:19am CST ~ 2 weeks, 7 days ago. 
AMBoy You mean, the sentence (a) below is possible, if the noun "lamok" is definite?? (a) Pumatay sa lamok ang bata.
 
@kasong
 
Sa is used for direction.
 
The correct marker here ng
 
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Author Photo kasong
Aug 29 2021, 6:58am CST ~ 2 weeks, 6 days ago. 
@Bituingmaykinang
 
Yes, OK. But can you explain why the direction marker "sa" is used in the following sentence?
 
Ang lihim na iyán ang pápatáy sa inyóng relasyón.
 
We use also the direction marker "kay" in the following sentence, which I cannot understand.
 
Sino ang pumatáy kay J. F. Kennedy?
 
The two example sentences above have common that the "ang" marker comes before the verb.
 
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